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Bathurst or Gnoo Blas


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#1 BUCKLECOUPE

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:46

Posted ImageHi, Would like to know were and when this photo was taken.. I thought Gnoo Blas was all right hand turns. Help needed. Bob

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#2 Terry Walker

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:49

My immediate reaction is Mt Druitt, so immediate its certain to be wrong.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:14

Too hilly for Druitt, I would have thought

Can't think where at Bathurst it might be, unless it's taken from the end of Mountain Straight with a very long telefoto lens

#4 Catalina Park

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:38

To me it looks a lot like Mt Druitt but I don't know about that shed. The background looks flat like the end of the airstrip with the creek and line of trees behind.
If it is Mt Druitt it is an angle I haven't seen. But that shed...

Did Gnoo Blas have a real left hand corner?

#5 ken devine

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:36

That is a great historic shot. Keep them coming.

#6 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:49

Could it be Point Cook Aerodrome. The airstrip and hangar seem to be in the right place when looking at the second-to-last corner which is a left-hander.

Posted Image

#7 GMACKIE

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:02

Was there ever a race meeting at Oran Park, before the circuit was sealed? It looks a bit like Energol, before it was moved. The surface, although dirt, looks well graded.

#8 austmcreg

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:46

Could it be Point Cook Aerodrome. The airstrip and hangar seem to be in the right place when looking at the second-to-last corner which is a left-hander.

I doubt it. Point Cook airbase is very flat and even then I doubt there were many trees. Point Cook's last use for racing was much earlier than this was taken.

My thinking is that there was ever only three Cooper MkVIII, IX or MkX in Australia in period. The Jim Madsen BMW car, which this is definitely not, the Murray Rainey Norton-engined car which seems unlikely, and the Roy Blake / Steve de Bord car with JAP single, which later became the Walton Cooper (now with Terry Wright). This would seem to be the latter car, and my limited research on the later aircooled Coopers says its racing was confined to NSW. John Blanden (for what it is worth) says it only had one appearance at a circuit other than Mt Druitt, which was Bathurst. This does not look anything like Bathurst.

I am not very familiar with Mt Druitt, having only ever seen the photos in AMS, but I think it is very likely the venue.

If this is the Blake / de Bord Cooper, then the photo was taken between late 1955 and late 1957.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 09 March 2013 - 11:03.


#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:01

It's not Point Cook... there was only ever one race meeting there IIRC, and it's very flat...

Do we know who the drivers and cars are?

I would think it's the entry to the lefthander onto the pit straight at Mt Druitt. But I don't like the gully immediately behind the road there, so that could well be wrong.

It's not Lowood, Strathpine, Lakeside, Marsden Park, Oran Park, Catalina, Bathurst, Nowra, Ringwood, Towac, Gnoo Blas, Silverton, Nurioopta, Gawler, Warwick Farm, Hume Weir, Tarrawingee, Winton, Calder, Phillip Island, Sandown, Symmons Plains, Longford, Baskerville, Middle Range, Leyburn, Port Wakefield, Lobethal, Mallala, Caversham or any of the street circuits in WA.

That leaves what?

Mt Druitt
Southport
Oxley
Pound Hill
Bright (unlikely)

It looks to be early fifties. It looks to be the Nind TB Special, but I wouldn't be sure of that. If it is, that car travelled a bit. It looks to be a well-developed circuit by the parking arrangements, the tracks in the carpark area etc.

My bet is with Mt Druitt as I've suggested above. I think Southport is unlikely, Oxley I simply don't know, Pound Hill could surprise us but I don't have a map of it here.

#10 Catalina Park

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:40

Ray almost had me with Pound Hill but I think I have convinced myself that it is Mt Druitt...

Posted Image

Screenshot taken from this video... at 33 seconds.

#11 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:02

It's not Point Cook... there was only ever one race meeting there IIRC, and it's very flat...

Do we know who the drivers and cars are?

I would think it's the entry to the lefthander onto the pit straight at Mt Druitt. But I don't like the gully immediately behind the road there, so that could well be wrong.



I think you are right Ray. As the circuit map shows, the pit straight area is said to be 100 feet higher than the rest of the track, which would explain the "gully" you were concerned about.


Posted Image

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:49

I sincerely doubt that there's actually 100' difference, Milan...

However, in Terry Walker's Fast Tracks it does show buildings in the same position as the ones shown in the photo would be. Further confirmation of it being the entry to Tyresoles Corner at Mt Druitt.

#13 DanTra2858

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 18:58

I sincerely doubt that there's actually 100' difference, Milan...

However, in Terry Walker's Fast Tracks it does show buildings in the same position as the ones shown in the photo would be. Further confirmation of it being the entry to Tyresoles Corner at Mt Druitt.


Ray are you suggesting that Tyresole Corner is the same corner as Pit Corner if it is not the one in same then where on the map is Tyresoles Corner.

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 20:55

It is shown as Pit Corner, yes...

But most people refer to it as Tyresoles.

#15 DanTra2858

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:43

It is shown as Pit Corner, yes...

But most people refer to it as Tyresoles.


Thanks for that, it must have been a very good drivers circuit in its day, it is a shame that is not here today as it seems to have had a wide range of different corners, a good Club circuit by today's standard.

#16 DanTra2858

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:01

I doubt it. Point Cook airbase is very flat and even then I doubt there were many trees. Point Cook's last use for racing was much earlier than this was taken.

My thinking is that there was ever only three Cooper MkVIII, IX or MkX in Australia in period. The Jim Madsen BMW car, which this is definitely not, the Murray Rainey Norton-engined car which seems unlikely, and the Roy Blake / Steve de Bord car with JAP single, which later became the Walton Cooper (now with Terry Wright). This would seem to be the latter car, and my limited research on the later aircooled Coopers says its racing was confined to NSW. John Blanden (for what it is worth) says it only had one appearance at a circuit other than Mt Druitt, which was Bathurst. This does not look anything like Bathurst.

I am not very familiar with Mt Druitt, having only ever seen the photos in AMS, but I think it is very likely the venue.

If this is the Blake / de Bord Cooper, then the photo was taken between late 1955 and late 1957.

Rob Saward


On page 170 of the John Medley Bathurst book there is a photo Roy Blake & his Red Cooper Mk 8 500cc which hit a tree during practice at Reid Park at the wet practice for the Easter 1956 meeting, so the Mt Druitt photo was prior to Easter 1956.


#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:16

Does that mean that the MG is Harry Gapps?

He was entered in that same Bathurst as No 24, just a Blake is carrying 27. The ARDC did tend to allow drivers to keep their race numbers from meeting to meeting at their events.

Which kind of sets the seal on the location of the photo as certainly being at Mt Druitt.

#18 gkennedy

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:24

Posted ImageHi, Would like to know were and when this photo was taken.. I thought Gnoo Blas was all right hand turns. Help needed. Bob

I'll agree with those who say Mount Druitt. I attended the races there as a little boy a few times in the mid fifties, and that is how I remember it. The long line of trees behind the main straight, and the lineup of spectator's cars - although the elevation confused me for a bit. I think it's the effect of the camera bringing the background forward and thereby making the elevation appear greater than it is. BTW Bob, I was an apprentice at BMC, and was there from Jan '65 until early '73. I remember you and your Buckle. I'm now at Box Hill, just up the road from you. :wave:


#19 DanTra2858

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:28

I believe the MG Special is Harry Gapps in the ex. Brabham short wheel base MG TC Special of 1250 cc s/c, the car was entered in the Bathurst 1956 Easter meeting running # 24 as per the Bathurst book.

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#20 seldo

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:58

If you compare the line-up of spectators' cars in the background, they compare very similarly to the disposition of Strip Straight, Railway Curve and Farm Straight, as does the situation of the buildings in the circuit graphic.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by seldo, 11 March 2013 - 04:59.


#21 john medley

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:10

Definitely Tyresoles Corner, Mt Druitt, Cars as above.
Worth noting that the map shown above is not a map at all. Terry W is the man for a correct map

#22 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:43

I was going to post the same thing...

The Motor Manual 'maps' as shown in the Mt Druitt one above, though not so the Point Cook one, are sort of rough aerial views, as in from an aircraft taken at an angle. The corners are nothing like what's shown.

#23 Eshe

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:57

What does a photo at the same location/viewing angle look like today? (as I cringe at the anticipated result!)

#24 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:13

Here's the Mount Druitt circuit map, from Darren Galpin's site:

http://www.silhouet....s/mtdruitt.html

#25 Catalina Park

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:19

The Google streetview from the same approximate location..

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:04

Originally posed by Eshe
What does a photo at the same location/viewing angle look like today? (as I cringe at the anticipated result!)


Actually, it would show something not terribly different...

The uphill straight to the corner prior to the one shown is part of a cycle track, the area along the airstrip and creek is still open and much the same. I don't know at exactly what point the circuit goes under the modern landscape, but it's really the Pit Straight and a part of the Stable Straight that are mostly submerged beneath suburbia.

The old buildings are certainly gone, however.

#27 HiRich

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 14:32

My thinking is that there was ever only three Cooper MkVIII, IX or MkX in Australia in period.
Rob Saward

Definitely Mk VIII, Rob, and therefore the Blake - Walton chassis. Presumably fairly early in its life, as it still has the full engine cover (which rarely lasted long)

#28 tsrwright

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:48

This is what Ray Bell wrote and is what I normally do. I'll try again.

You now need to place that in your post. As the string comes from imageshack, it includes all the necessary coding to raise the image in your post. You DO NOT have to make any other provision than to copy and paste to a fresh line in your post. When you click on the chosen selection, it's highlighted, then you right click and then click on 'copy'... and then paste it to that fresh line in your post:

Posted Image[/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

IT DOESN"T WORK

Edited by tsrwright, 13 March 2013 - 06:50.


#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:11

Originally posted by tsrwright
This is what Ray Bell wrote and is what I normally do. I'll try again.

You now need to place that in your post. As the string comes from imageshack, it includes all the necessary coding to raise the image in your post. You DO NOT have to make any other provision than to copy and paste to a fresh line in your post. When you click on the chosen selection, it's highlighted, then you right click and then click on 'copy'... and then paste it to that fresh line in your post:

Posted Image

IT DOESN"T WORK


If that doesn't work it's because the photo is a .png file instead of a .jpg file.

#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:18

And seeing as it did work, then it means you clicked on 'Alt. Forum Code' when you copied the Imageshack code...

Stick to the straight 'Forum Code' and it will work for you. What I have done to get the image up is simply wrap the straight url of the pic in image codes.

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:30

Your picture appears above in the first post I made about it...

Your code was from the 'Alt Forum Code' line, trust me.

What has probably happened when you tried the proper 'Forum Code' line is that when you highlighted that line and went to click on copy the highlighting went away. It does this sometimes, so your previous entry to the clipboard (ie. whatever you copied previously) has remained there for pasting instead of the proper code.

Check it out. Click on 'edit' for your post, then copy and past what you have there to a Wordpad page. Then go to Imageshack and make sure you get what you should have and paste that beneath it. The differences will be very evident to you.

#32 tsrwright

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:38

Meanwhile ............

The car in question was first owned jointly as a 500 by Roy Blake and Steve De Bord who had bought it after it sat in John Crouch's Sydney showroom for a long time. I think the two fell out later and I know nothing of De Bord but I have had contact with Roy Blake' son. I have, and will post, a few pictures he gave me.

When I started trying to find the Walton Cooper Graham Howard gave me a photo of the Blake/De Bord car he took himself, doubtless with Box Brownie, at Mt Druitt. It later became the Walton Cooper and after Bruce's long run of AHCCs passed through the hands of John Fish and Max Agius (I forget if this is the complete list of Victorian owners). Max sold it to Perth to a man who Graham told me, about 10 years ago, had long previously died of cancer. Graham knew the man's name (this was at least 25 years later) and I immediately was able to find the widow from the Perth phone book. A phone call later I had a name in Geraldton and after one more call there had found the car.

That was just one of many good things you did, Graham. I really will miss you.

Edited by tsrwright, 13 March 2013 - 10:25.


#33 tsrwright

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:54

Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image


There are 3 URLs here but only 2 pictures are displaying.

Roy Blake is in the car at Mt Druitt and is with some of his trophies. Anyone know what they are?

Edited by tsrwright, 13 March 2013 - 10:02.


#34 tsrwright

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:09

Posted Image

Fairly obviously, this is Steve DeBord (or is it De Bord?)

BTW Rich, I still have the engine top cover. The nose is a bit shorter, probably since John Fish looped it at Calder.

I wonder why the exhaust pipe was raised?

Edited by tsrwright, 13 March 2013 - 10:13.


#35 tsrwright

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:17

Nope, it doesn't, not here anyway :confused:


I think some of the files were too big, but there is nothing to tell you that. They just don't appear.

In the end I posted the pics using Imageshack Uploader which bypasses the Imageshack website. You can list multiple photos, adjust the size for each one then get Forum codes for the lot. When I made sure the missing photo (above) was 800 pixels wide max it posted ok.

Edited by tsrwright, 13 March 2013 - 10:21.


#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:24

As I said before, the first one came out fine...

And where you are saying only two appear, there are indeed three.

#37 tsrwright

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:27

As I said before, the first one came out fine...

And where you are saying only two appear, there are indeed three.


Well, not here in either case. :confused:

Anyway, here is the Graham Howard photo.

Posted Image

#38 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 21:05

By the way, I'd be fairly sure that's also taken at Tyresoles Corner...

It more or less has to be.

EDIT: Or does it? The shining sun is putting the lie to my statement here, it would have to be Castle Curve at around Midday. And by the same sundial the race photo would have been getting on in the afternoon.

All of which explains to me why the embankment on the outside of the bend in this pic isn't as high as I recall it being at Tyresoles.

Edited by Ray Bell, 13 March 2013 - 21:10.


#39 BUCKLECOUPE

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:16

I believe the MG Special is Harry Gapps in the ex. Brabham short wheel base MG TC Special of 1250 cc s/c, the car was entered in the Bathurst 1956 Easter meeting running # 24 as per the Bathurst book.

Hi, I was given this small photo a fee years back. It is the late Harry Gapps from Katoomba area in the MG Special. Was told at the time this was the only photo that survived
from his collection, they all went to the tip. At the time I received this photo I was told that it was Harry Gapps and Jack Brabham... Now I think he got mixed up, he should have said Gapps in the Brabham MG Spcial as you have noted.
Bob

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#40 DanTra2858

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 21:05


Anyway, here is the Graham Howard photo.

Posted Image
[/quote]

It appears in this photo that Blake is running 3 stripes on the rear of the car, could this be it's first outing prior to obtaining his full Licence

#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 23:10

Seeing as the number's different, could it be De Bord?

It certainly looks like three stripes, though, and that certainly meant the driver still has to see the Stewards and get his 'provisional' licence signed off.

EDIT: That would be the Clerk of Course, not the Stewards.

Edited by Ray Bell, 14 March 2013 - 23:10.


#42 DanTra2858

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:29

Seeing as the number's different, could it be De Bord?

It certainly looks like three stripes, though, and that certainly meant the driver still has to see the Stewards and get his 'provisional' licence signed off.

EDIT: That would be the Clerk of Course, not the Stewards.


Well Ray I have had the privelage age of seeing both, bet I am not the only one. :rotfl:

#43 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:00

It's only a privilege if Warren Gracie isn't one of them...

I've spent some interesting evenings listening to goings on just outside the Stewards' door at Warwick Farm.

#44 HiRich

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:59

It appears in this photo that Blake is running 3 stripes on the rear of the car, could this be it's first outing prior to obtaining his full Licence

Looking at Terry's three photos, the chap with the trophies seems to be the taller driver on the right, with the curly hair.

The driver in the Graham Howard shot seems to be the taller chap - therefore Roy Blake.

Not only are there those marks on the tail (good spot, by the way), but the race numbers are significantly different. At Easter Panorama and July Mount Druitt the car had roundels, which would probably supercede plain numbers. So that really suggests the image is more likely to be before 2/04/1956, and as you suggest Blake's debut. If Terry is correct that it is also Mount Druitt, could it be 23/10/1955 (the next latest meeting I have a note of)?

#45 GMACKIE

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 21:18

It's only a privilege if Warren Gracie isn't one of them...

I found Warren Gracie a fair and reasonable person......did he change in later years?


#46 Catalina Park

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:57

I found Warren Gracie a fair and reasonable person......did he change in later years?

I never had a problem with him.

#47 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:08

I have sat in a small room with him a couple of times....

#48 tsrwright

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:51

From Graham Howard some years ago,

Posted Image Hi all, it was bugging me that I couldn't find the exact ref to my source for the story that Ron T. had borrowed the nose of the Blake/De Bord Cooper, so I have been hunting, and finally found a small note that says it was De Bord, but I haven't yet found where the rest of the De Bord notes have got to. Possibly in my Mt Druitt box, which means it will be for another day. Known NSW cars with that nose: '56 Ralt Vincent; the Joass '57 car and the Scarab, one of its two clones; kit Ralts (three known - Todd Hamilton's, the Jennings car still in Victoria but without Vincent, and the Myers Thunderbird); Fatouros BSA; Alba; Surtees JAP; two of the three air-cooled Lynxes. Total 11, and there will be others I have forgotten. An easy small item for LF some day. regards grime
Can anyone add any more and I'll do that small item in LF.

Maybe a record for Cooper offspring?

PS also the BRM

Edited by tsrwright, 25 March 2013 - 11:50.


#49 tsrwright

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:37

Posted Image

Here's that number 27 again.

I'll try posting the other page but I have been at it for 45 minutes Despite what others may say or do, if you post the correct URL etc it often does not work

Edited by tsrwright, 25 March 2013 - 11:48.


#50 tsrwright

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:56

Posted Image

It looks like that if you use Imageshack Uploader for multlple files and set it to resize the pic to 800 wide it only resizes the first file. Then when you post it either just ignores the oversize file (and doesn't tell you that) or it does actually post it supersize.

Edited by tsrwright, 25 March 2013 - 11:57.