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Hamilton: "A duel with Button doesn't excite me"


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#101 MP422

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 18:21

The lack of mental zeal is raising its ugly head again, indeed.

Not only the Button discussion - Lewis is making all the noises, including trophies, his own museum and a dog with earphones (Roscoe) in the Merc pits - I wonder how that will help Lewis maintaining his mental focus. If we are in store for another 2011 will largely depend on how competitive the Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04 is - if the car is not doing well I expect Lewis to get caught up in all kind of pitfalls....



Lack of mental zeal ? lol. You listed a Puppy and maybe a future public trophy display as a reason for lack of mental focus.... I don't agree with that opinion and believe that this is just nit picking or hating as i like to call it. Maybe a post with more rational logic should be added to this sort of discussion because otherwise it just looks like b;atant trolling. 2011 had three wins for LH and the team finsihed 2nd in the Wcc, that would be a great season for Merc. :wave:

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#102 MP422

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 18:23

Come on, how much points between Button and Hamilton over 3 years again?
So Lewis was a little faster on saturday, that dont bring points or championships. I think we all agree it was closer than anyone wouldv dared to predict at the end of 2009.



C'mon.... whose car dnf'd 3 times while leading a grand prix in 2012. Alternatively whose car was sent to the back of the grid due to a under fueling error ? Then rub that bogus stat like it's true reflection of a driver.

#103 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 18:27

C'mon.... whose car dnf'd 3 times while leading a grand prix in 2012. Alternatively whose car was sent to the back of the grid due to a under fueling error ? Then rub that bogus stat like it's true reflection of a driver.


So Hamilton had some bad luck, and outdrove Button quite a few times in 2012. The reverse was true in 2011. It all evens itself out. As someone said: when Button has his setup sorted, he can beat anyone, including Hamilton. And has done so. Give the man some credit.

#104 itsademo

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 18:33

Or it meant that he was doing the job he was hired to do, gather as many points as possible for the WCC. More points, better placement in the WCC, more money for the team.

in that case he failed twice in 3 years

#105 PARAZAR

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 20:24

in that case he failed twice in 3 years


Way to spin it around. The post I was answering to had a completely different context to what you're saying. But lets put a different spin on it shall we? In the three years they were together he accumulated more points for the team than his team mate. Anyway, this is the last I have to say on this subject. If Lewis doesn't rate Jenson that's fine, it's up to him who he rates the highest and who he wants to beat the most. It can only work positively for Jenson if he's bothered by it to begin with. Competitive people tend to up their game if they feel undervalued in their field.

#106 robefc

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 20:38

So Hamilton had some bad luck, and outdrove Button quite a few times in 2012. The reverse was true in 2011. It all evens itself out. As someone said: when Button has his setup sorted, he can beat anyone, including Hamilton. And has done so. Give the man some credit.


I've no issues with giving button credit but the 'it all evens out' argument isn't true just because people repeat it constantly.

#107 sheogorath

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 20:38

All he's saying is he's more excited to battle Alonso than his current and previous teammate.
What's wrong with that statement? How is that disrespectful?

People are so touchy sometimes...


"I'm not interested in arguing with you, you are a waste of my time. I'm more interested in debating so and so"

Same thing. Equally disrespectful.

#108 inca_roads

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 20:43

So Hamilton had some bad luck, and outdrove Button quite a few times in 2012. The reverse was true in 2011. It all evens itself out.


If it evened itself out, for a start, there's a fair possibility Button wouldn't have won one race in 2011, as he'd have seen three likely wins go up in smoke - the three he actually won, possibly.

Also, he'd have finished more than 30 points behind Lewis. So you actually even things out by taking away the wins for both, rather than just saying they even out as they are, and Hamilton wins all three years. Or you acknowledge the points Lewis lost for them in 2012, Jenson gets 2011, and Hamilton wins 2012 very, very comfortably.

#109 tkulla

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 21:06

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Lewis said. But I think he'll be excited to be in a duel with anyone if it means he'll have a shot at his 2nd WDC.

The mutual admiration society he and Fernando have set up is a bit tedious but I understand it as coming from the frustration of seeing Vettel win three on the trot.

The reality to me though is that Vettel is now the most complete driver. Alonso is often given that title, but he's higher maintenance that Vettel, and I would guess he's not as quick in Q either (Seb & Lewis are the aces in that department IMO).

Don't get me wrong, Fernando is a great driver. What bugs me about him is that he seems a bit afraid to have another top driver alongside. He would veto Button or Hamilton or Vettel or Raikkonen as a teammate for sure. None of those drivers seem to care who their teammate is, and in fact relish the challenge. The only "Fernando approved" driver that would make a good reference point is Webber, which would give us a indirect comparison between Seb and Fernando.

Edited by tkulla, 12 March 2013 - 21:08.


#110 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 21:14

I've no issues with giving button credit but the 'it all evens out' argument isn't true just because people repeat it constantly.


Its just how I feel about 3 years of Hamilton - Button. The rather equal points haul should testify to that.


If it evened itself out, for a start, there's a fair possibility Button wouldn't have won one race in 2011, as he'd have seen three likely wins go up in smoke - the three he actually won, possibly.

Also, he'd have finished more than 30 points behind Lewis. So you actually even things out by taking away the wins for both, rather than just saying they even out as they are, and Hamilton wins all three years. Or you acknowledge the points Lewis lost for them in 2012, Jenson gets 2011, and Hamilton wins 2012 very, very comfortably.


Yea, and so we can add or take away points for lots of reasons. I think ill stick with well agree to disagree since its a very touchy subject for some to discuss.

#111 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 21:20

Its just how I feel about 3 years of Hamilton - Button. The rather equal points haul should testify to that.

When the whole idea is that 'points dont tell the whole story', then no, equal point scores dont testify to it.  ;)

#112 Arion

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 21:37

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Lewis said. But I think he'll be excited to be in a duel with anyone if it means he'll have a shot at his 2nd WDC.

The mutual admiration society he and Fernando have set up is a bit tedious but I understand it as coming from the frustration of seeing Vettel win three on the trot.

The reality to me though is that Vettel is now the most complete driver. Alonso is often given that title, but he's higher maintenance that Vettel, and I would guess he's not as quick in Q either (Seb & Lewis are the aces in that department IMO).

Don't get me wrong, Fernando is a great driver. What bugs me about him is that he seems a bit afraid to have another top driver alongside. He would veto Button or Hamilton or Vettel or Raikkonen as a teammate for sure. None of those drivers seem to care who their teammate is, and in fact relish the challenge. The only "Fernando approved" driver that would make a good reference point is Webber, which would give us a indirect comparison between Seb and Fernando.


He said Alonso AND Vettel. Vettel is in the admiration club, happy?

#113 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 21:37

When the whole idea is that 'points dont tell the whole story', then no, equal point scores dont testify to it.;)


Thats also true. I guess its an endless debate. :)


Edited by yoyogetfunky, 12 March 2013 - 21:38.


#114 Coops3

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 23:55

"I'm not interested in arguing with you, you are a waste of my time. I'm more interested in debating so and so"

Same thing. Equally disrespectful.


It's not the same thing and it's not equally disrespectful. You've added bits to your sentence which relate to your interpretation of Lewis', rather than to what was actually said, e.g. "you are a waste of my time".

Edited by Coops3, 12 March 2013 - 23:56.


#115 Cult

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 00:31

I think it's natural not to be 'excited' by a duel with a teammate you've just battled for three years unless you have unfinished business.

He clearly sees Fernando (and Vettel) as the yardsticks so will always cherish beating them. Nothing wrong with what Lewis said and I don't think he's underestimating Jenson's talent/likelihood of success, just an honest answer to a question really.

#116 Bunchies

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 00:37

Come on, how much points between Button and Hamilton over 3 years again?


But you don't get to carry over points past the season end, unfortunately. If you could, then Button would have beaten Hammy.

As it stands, Button got owned for 2 out of the 3 years and did performed satisfactorily when Lewis was busy screwing himself.

#117 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 00:41

Lewis wants a war, like Senna did with Prost. I expect Alonso to approach it like Prost did.

EDIT: I walk past the hotel where Lewis is currently staying on my way to work :) Just occurred to me that I'm talking about him like he's in another country and he's basically in the next street to me! Very strange living in an F1 town :) Maybe I should find him and ask him haha

Edited by BuzzingHornet, 13 March 2013 - 00:44.


#118 discover23

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:19

Depends which Hill you're talking about..

the one over the Hill.

#119 jjcale

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:34

Yeah Lewis hates JB just has breakfast with him and stuff.


Well, they should stop taking little potshots at each other in interviews then ....

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#120 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 13:27

I'm inclined to believe Lewis when he says that duelling with Jenson doesn't excite him. He knows that if he does get close on track, he'll get due respect and fair play so the outcome is predictable. On the other hand, duelling with Maldonado must be incredibly exciting. Like a game of Russian roulette.

#121 Haribo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 15:08

I'm inclined to believe Lewis when he says that duelling with Jenson doesn't excite him. He knows that if he does get close on track, he'll get due respect and fair play so the outcome is predictable. On the other hand, duelling with Maldonado must be incredibly exciting. Like a game of Russian roulette.


I dunno... the outcome of duelling with Maldonado is also fairly predictable.

#122 CHIUNDA

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 16:22

Yet surely an immediate mission will begin with his duel against Button and his old team McLaren, who groomed him for stardom from childhood?

'That doesn’t really excite me,' said Hamilton


Sounds like a question was put to Hamilton rather than him voluntarily putting down anybody

Edited by Buttoneer, 13 March 2013 - 18:50.


#123 Slick

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 20:14

I dunno... the outcome of duelling with Maldonado is also fairly predictable.


You have a very good point there. lol

#124 apoka

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 20:59

I dunno... the outcome of duelling with Maldonado is also fairly predictable.

That insight could have saved half of the grid valuable points.


#125 ZooL

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 21:10

Who won the on-track toe-to-toe duels?

It was always Hamilton in the end.

Edited by ZooL, 13 March 2013 - 21:10.


#126 Rinehart

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 22:34

Do we really need a fresh thread for every driver utterance.

I get tired of these contrived attempts to whip up controversy. I think nearly every F1 pundit and fan would agree that Fernando is faster than Button. I'm sure Button is aware of it too, as are the rest of the drivers.

Instead of walking on egg shells I don't see anything wrong with Lewis stating what appears to be self-evident - Fernando is one of, if not the, best out there. And Lewis wants to prove himself better - good for him, I wouldn't expect anything less.


Due to the newish forum rules, yes....

No way is the tide of opinion anything like as one sided as you think and the facts are far from nailed on. Button and Alonso are pretty similar in my mind in that a lot of their success comes from craft and consistency rather than sheer speed. I think certain drivers that are not as good as Button and Alonso are as fast or faster than them.

But as to Hamiltons agenda. I think we've all noticed that Lewis and Nando have been promoting each other for the past 18 months. Common enemy and all that...

#127 Arion

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:47

But as to Hamiltons agenda. I think we've all noticed that Lewis and Nando have been promoting each other for the past 18 months. Common enemy and all that...


Hamilton has always spoken very highly about alonso since day one, way before the vettel-RBR era (partly because he's asked about alonso more often because of 2007 I guess). Alonso started returning the compliments lately, but to be fair, he was asked who's the toughest rival, and he didn't want to say Vettel, so he used Hamilton to underline his point - It's the car. I remember one time he's asked the same question, he said Schumacher was the toughest he's ever raced against (MS had retired by then), he never wants to say the driver who's actually the biggest threat at the time, I think it's just his underdog mentality, my rival is not tough, it's just the circumstances are tough. Anyway, he did say all the PC stuff like Vettel's driven very well, deserving champion etc, probably not the most gracious, but I really don't see the controversy.

You can do these second guessing to any driver, Button's comment about alonso and vettel after Alonso' win at Valencia, sympathy for a fellow driver who won in a dominant car? Rosberg's "the car, not the drink", jealous of Vettel, cos he's german too?
I think they're just saying what they think most of the time. Hamilton is rather prone to self-promoting, as for Alonso, I think the guy REALLY BELIEVES his car is a dog, rivals' cars are rockets, that's how his mind works.

would you rather see hamilton give a PC answer like I want to beat the rest of the grid? cos that's the only answer that would not come off as a slight to any driver.

Edited by Arion, 14 March 2013 - 09:00.


#128 kosmos

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:57

I remember one time he's asked the same question, he said Schumacher was the toughest he's ever raced against (MS had retired by then)



And he was right, 2006 was a fierce battle between them, most of the time it was close racing (plus political fight with FIA and stewards questionable decissions), I don't think Alonso had that kind of fight with Vettel for the title, very little close racing and some mild banter on the press.

#129 Wingnut

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:14

After reading all this, I get the feeling that Lewis Hamilton will go down in history as the most mis-quoted driver ever.

#130 JustinD

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:21

. Button and Alonso are pretty similar in my mind in that a lot of their success comes from craft and consistency rather than sheer speed.



Button and Fernando Alonso similar? I guess Alonso is like Button but with more speed and aggression if thats what you mean

Edited by JustinD, 14 March 2013 - 10:23.


#131 eronrules

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:26

Button 'surprised' by Hamilton's criticism

"I was very, very surprised to hear that," Button said Thursday when asked about Hamilton's comments. "The freedom I have in this team is phenomenal.

"It's so not like that. It's a very open team, free team, and a team that will do anything for you."

Button said that McLaren, unlike Mercedes, cannot use massive revenues from its road car sales to bankroll its F1 operations and therefore needs to work harder to cultivate and retain sponsors.

"In this team you work, you have to work, and perhaps harder than in other teams," Button said. "Initially when I came to the team it was a shock. You learn to understand, to adapt - that is the job."


Edited by eronrules, 14 March 2013 - 10:26.


#132 ZooL

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:32

Button 'surprised' by Hamilton's criticism

The F1 band know what a grey team McLaren are, its been said for years they are the awkward team of the pitlane.


#133 Arion

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:34

Button 'surprised' by Hamilton's criticism


told you so, they don't like each other :drunk:



#134 eronrules

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:37

The F1 band know what a grey team McLaren are, its been said for years they are the awkward team of the pitlane.


they have been grey since mercedes joined them (livery) :smoking:

#135 ZooL

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:42

told you so, they don't like each other :drunk:

Someone needs to do a meme with Button as the Iraqi information minister and a picture of Perez with his new short haircut...

#136 RealRacing

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 13:36

Anyone actually SAYING, "I want to be seen as great as well"...well...




#137 Grundle

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 13:52

I'm inclined to believe Lewis when he says that duelling with Jenson doesn't excite him. He knows that if he does get close on track, he'll get due respect and fair play so the outcome is predictable. On the other hand, duelling with Maldonado must be incredibly exciting. Like a game of Russian roulette.

I think it's a mental stimulation thing. Some drivers battle on different levels. China 2011 comes to mind. Lewis battle with seb was far
more cerebral than his battle with Button.

#138 inca_roads

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 15:08

Hamilton has always spoken very highly about alonso since day one, way before the vettel-RBR era (partly because he's asked about alonso more often because of 2007 I guess).


This.

If you watch Lewis' interview on top gear at the end of 2007, he said about Alonso, "He's a bloody good driver, I tell you." When it would have been easy to slate him, infront of a "home" crowd some of which maybe wanted him to.

I also saw an interview with Lewis and Jenson at I think at the start of 2010, and Hamilton was asked who his best team-mate had been. He said Alonso - this is obvious, with due respect to Kovalainen, but he decided to eulogise a bit more, I think he said something like "you would go out and do a lap and think 'ok, that was a really good lap' and you'd come back to the pits and he'd have gone 2 tenths quicker!"

I don't follow Alonso's interviews and stuff so much, so I don't know when his praise for Hamilton started, but Lewis has always been complimentary of Fernando. As it doesn't fit the image of him being arrogant, disrespectful etc that some people like to perpetuate it just hasn't been mentioned on here as much, that's all.

#139 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 15:28

I don't follow Alonso's interviews and stuff so much, so I don't know when his praise for Hamilton started, but Lewis has always been complimentary of Fernando. As it doesn't fit the image of him being arrogant, disrespectful etc that some people like to perpetuate it just hasn't been mentioned on here as much, that's all.


Lewis in january 2010: "I destroyed Alonso in 2007". Im sure youll find less flattery remarks during 2007.
I think both Alonso and Hamilton in the end, decided its better for public to play nice. And whats better press than beating the guy on track who you claim is the best driver in F1? :)

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#140 inca_roads

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 15:36

Lewis in january 2010: "I destroyed Alonso in 2007". Im sure youll find less flattery remarks during 2007.
I think both Alonso and Hamilton in the end, decided its better for public to play nice. And whats better press than beating the guy on track who you claim is the best driver in F1? :)


Ok, fair enough, nearly always then. :)

Anyway, in reference to the original point of it only starting when Vettel started to dominate, the point remains - it's not true.

#141 SmokeScreen

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 16:13

Lewis in january 2010: "I destroyed Alonso in 2007". Im sure youll find less flattery remarks during 2007.
I think both Alonso and Hamilton in the end, decided its better for public to play nice. And whats better press than beating the guy on track who you claim is the best driver in F1? :)


Actually he used the slang "blew away" i do think it was "I blew him away"which is quite different?
Consider that you could blow someone away, in the context Lewis was referring and still have lost to that same person -irrespective of the points table Alonso in this sense would have gone from advising Ron Dennis that he was risking the WCC with an unproven rookie to knowing full well that each race he had to bring his A game on!

then you can search out the 15mins Herbert Sky interview in which Lewis uses the same term again - when he talks about his "downforce" comments.

#142 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 16:22

But you don't get to carry over points past the season end, unfortunately. If you could, then Button would have beaten Hammy.

As it stands, Button got owned for 2 out of the 3 years and did performed satisfactorily when Lewis was busy screwing himself.


Already, history is being rewritten...or tried to be rewritten.

#143 SophieB

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 20:39

Ok, fair enough, nearly always then. :)

Anyway, in reference to the original point of it only starting when Vettel started to dominate, the point remains - it's not true.


I think you are right and that this latest interview in the Guardian is not meant to snub Button so much as an honest expression of the very high regard he has fairly consistently expressed about Alonso. Like how obviously impressed he was at Alonso going in to the McLaren garage when he won the WDC:

I don't think there was a particular dispute between us, we've greeted each other when we've met each other at the track - we've always respected each other. It was great to see him in the garage. He came over as I saw my team, I turned round and he was there - just to wish me congratulations. Then he said congratulations to the rest of the team. I had a huge amount of respect for him already, but it took a big man to come and do that so I was very thankful to him.


My own guess is that Hamilton is slightly hero worshipping by nature, possibly as a means of self-motivation. Some people like to personalise targets of success. An impression that was strengthened when in early 2011, he drew parallels with how he saw Alono with how Senna might have seen Prost (!). In that context, if he says duels with other drivers don't seem exciting, I have no difficulty believing him.


#144 garoidb

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 21:51

Button and Fernando Alonso similar? I guess Alonso is like Button but with more speed and aggression if thats what you mean


Interestingly, they were in the same team in 2002.

#145 Rinehart

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 23:10

Interestingly, they were in the same team in 2002.


Even more interestingly, no they weren't!

#146 P123

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 23:13

Alonso was Renault's test driver in 2002.

#147 Rinehart

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 23:18

Alonso was Renault's test driver in 2002.


Exactly.