159 replies to this topic

[DrivenF1]

Testing has been incredibly inconclusive this year but it's always fun to predict your pecking order for the season. Give reasons if you feel like it.

Mine is: Red Bull > Lotus > Mercedes > Ferrari > McLaren > Sauber > Williams > Force India > Toro Rosso > Marussia > Caterham

I decided to analyse the second Catalunya test and have come up with this pecking order.

I feel like Red Bull are still the team to beat for a number of reasons. However everything isn't perfect for them, tyre deg hasn't been great and Lotus have looked better over longer runs. Mercedes have been best over shorter stints. In terms of Ferrari and McLaren, they have looked great at points but definitely look weaker than the other three cars. I think both will come with a big performance boost in Australia though. I stil feel Sauber and Williams will be in contention for strong points if any of the five teams ahead slip up.

[Rosberg]

Ever since the prediction of the Formula One Order has been mentioned, I've always come back to 2012 like did anyone know who was the quickest? Or who will make a huge improvement from 2011?

Anyway:

Red Bull - Lotus - McLaren - Ferrari - Mercedes - Williams - Sauber - Force India - Toro Rosso - Marussia - Caterham

Got no reason, just went with a prediction.

[redbarron]

I'm interested in understanding why people put Lotus and McLaren over Ferrari. Everything I read suggested McLaren are struggling, and Ferrari are looking very good? I suppose we will find out in a few days!

[Neomaster121]

Testing has been incredibly inconclusive this year but it's always fun to predict your pecking order for the season. Give reasons if you feel like it.

Mine is: Red Bull > Lotus > Mercedes > Ferrari > McLaren > Sauber > Williams > Force India > Toro Rosso > Marussia > Caterham

I decided to analyse the second Catalunya test and have come up with this pecking order.

I feel like Red Bull are still the team to beat for a number of reasons. However everything isn't perfect for them, tyre deg hasn't been great and Lotus have looked better over longer runs. Mercedes have been best over shorter stints. In terms of Ferrari and McLaren, they have looked great at points but definitely look weaker than the other three cars. I think both will come with a big performance boost in Australia though. I stil feel Sauber and Williams will be in contention for strong points if any of the five teams ahead slip up.

In terms of year average i'd agree
in terms of Australia performance will put mercedes top, think lewis surprise of how good mercedes mech grip will be of great use in aus

[DrivenF1]

In terms of year average i'd agree
in terms of Australia performance will put mercedes top, think lewis surprise of how good mercedes mech grip will be of great use in aus

I expect big things from Mercedes in Australia, I think Nico or Lewis might both be in the first two rows. At least I hope so.

[Kerch]

I have no idea, but may as well guess:

Red Bull
Ferrari
Mercedes
Lotus
McLaren (although I fancy them to get a good result in Melbourne due to strategy)
Sauber
Force India
Williams
Torro Rosso
Caterham
Marussia

[weareracing]

In Qualifying at least I would upgrade the Mercedes pairing, SPOILERS for the race and a close call between the karting buddies with Lewis JUST edging Nico, no drubbing at Mercedes
Vettel will be a MAJOR force as will Fernando as the No.1 Ferrari driver, both number 2 drivers (Webber & Massa) will be within striking distance for consistent points and sporadic podium finishes.
McLaren I think will be hampered by their drivers NOT being set-up kings NOR Qualifying specialists, they may struggle to make Q3.
It will be an interesting inter-team battle but NO CROWNS for McLaren.
Dark Horses are Lotus , Kimi to outscore Romain even if he does not dominate the qualifying battles, and Williams, Maldonado/Bottas to be CONSISTENT Q3 notables.
WEIRD but in less than a week we will have been through the opening race week-end of the2013 season.
MY HEART wants Kimi-Mark-Lewis...........
My head says SHUSHHH.......... and goes for Sebastian, Fernando, Mark on the podium in Melbourne

[Kingshark]

1. Mercedes
Fastest car in qualy, best car in the race.

2. Ferrari
2-3 tenths slower in qualy, but equal race pace to Merc.

3. Red Bull
2-3 to three tenths slower in qualy, and the same gap in the race.

4. Lotus
Equal car to Red Bull in pace, but still some reliability issues.

5. McLaren
4-5 tenths slower in qualy, but only 2-3 tenths slower in the race.

6. Williams
About half a second slower in qualy, and the same deficiency in the race.

7. Sauber
Three-quarters of a second slower in qualy, but only half a second slower in the race.

8. Toro Rosso
Eight tenths slower in qualy, one second slower in the race.

9. Force India
One second slower in qualy and the race.

10. Marussia
Lol.

11. Caterham
See above.

Edited by Kingshark, 11 March 2013 - 01:21.

[CF22]

I expect it to be Red Bull (unfortunately), Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren and Mercedes as the top five, though they will all be very close in the first half of the season. This season will be down to reliability, tires, and driver though.

[SamH123]

So many people seem to think Mclaren are going to start with a semi-dog and are ranking them outside the top 3...

Surrrely they can't have messed up what was the best car that badly?!

I'm expecting it to be very close between RB Merc and Mclaren at the first race with Ferrari and Lotus slightly behind

[Bruce]

Over the length of the season?

I think Red Bull will be hard to beat - they may not be at the absolute front at the beginning but they have showed that they can develop well and quickly in the season. I don't like it, but over the course of the whole season, I think Red Bull will be the car to have.

McLaren should be next best, but they may not benefit from it. I suspect that there will be the odd "rookie" (though he isn't really one) mistake from Perez and the odd inconsistency from the team in terms of pitstops, strategy and reliability.

Ferrari will likely be close to the top, within shouting distance of the top 2 but will have to work hard and aggressively to keep whittling the gap down to them. I think they'll compete, mostly based on their reliability and doggedness.

Lotus will likely shine at some races, but I think that agin this year that they will be hit and miss, feast and famine, chalk (kimi) and cheese (Romain)... :-)

Mercedes will have a good year, and putting them 5th doesn't mean they will finish there - but I don't see them as regular threats for race wins. They may have improved the car, but I still think that this will be a year of organizing their new staff and working to buttress their strengths.

Sauber, then Williams, then Force India, then Toro Rosso, Caterham and Marussia.

[boldhakka]

No clear pecking order. Form will vary from track to track. Small mistakes will cost big.

[Bruce]

No clear pecking order. Form will vary from track to track. Small mistakes will cost big.

....which will lead to a pecking order...

[F1AC]

1. Mercedes
Fastest car in qualy, best car in the race.

I'm sure you were the guy bashing Merc a few months back

[Kingshark]

I'm sure you were the guy bashing Merc a few months back

That doesn't change the fact that because of their epic development rate, I'm sure they'll be right up there with Force India by the time we get to Brazil.

Edited by Kingshark, 11 March 2013 - 04:11.

[F1AC]

That doesn't change the fact that because of their epic development rate, I'm sure they'll be right up there with Force India by the time we get to Brazil.

The thread is called 2013 pecking order, not Melbourne pecking order.
Almost as epic as Ferrari's wind tunnel correlation

[vas04614]

Sauber > Williams > Force India

I am a FI fan. Lets see if above is midfield order(as everyone says here) in MELBOURNE!!

[Cool Beans]

Red Bull > McLaren > Ferrari > Lotus = Mercedes > Sauber > Williams > FI > Toro Rosso > Caterham > Marussia

Based on winter testing, performance over past seasons and gut feeling

[Kelateboy]

2013 pecking order.

1. Red Bull - Might not be the outright fastest car out of the box, but they will be competitive in Australia. Their development prowess will take them the best car over the course of 19 GPs.

2. McLaren - Bridesmaid this year. They will cut down on strategical errors that permeated their campaign last year.

3. Ferrari - Better car than last year, but won't be enough to challenge the Red Bull. Might be nip and tuck with McLaren for the 2nd position.

4. Mercedes - Might be very fast early on, but over the course of the season, will drop back due to the deficiency with their development team.

5. Lotus - Realibility issues will make them the last of the Big 5.

6-11 .....................

[seahawk]

Will depend on the weather and the track.

[Ferrari2183]

1. McLaren (I think they have a very fast car with teething problems).

2. Lotus (Not sure of their one lap pace but their long runs during testing were encouraging - reliability is question mark though).

3. Ferrari - Red Bull (Ferrari seem to have stepped up since last year [Alonso will do well] and it seems that Red Bull have lost somewhat - gut feeling)

4. Mercedes (They look really fast over a single lap but I'm not sure of their race pace and race operations - some funny strategies last year).

[jimjimjeroo]

Lotus, quick, looks after tyres 20-25 laps minimal deg

[HP]

So many people seem to think Mclaren are going to start with a semi-dog and are ranking them outside the top 3...

Surrrely they can't have messed up what was the best car that badly?!

I'm expecting it to be very close between RB Merc and Mclaren at the first race with Ferrari and Lotus slightly behind

It's the only team that opted to not evolve last years concept.

That said, I have no clue about this years pecking order, except that I expect the usual teams being on top

[Donkey]

Red Bull - Everyone expects they have been hiding pace during testing, but I don't think they are completely happy and the other teams have definitely caught up.

Ferrari - They seem pretty pleased, at least compared to last year's testing disaster.

Mercedes - Genuinely look quick, although not convinced they have sorted out last year's tyre degradation issues.

Lotus - Car seems quick and consistent over long runs. May beat Mercedes in races with better tyre management.

Mclaren - While not their worst pre-season testing ever, they are definitely struggling to understand the car. Expect potential to emerge midway through season but may be too late by then.

Sauber - Best of the rest.

Force India - Chasing Sauber

Williams - Looks pretty but doesn't look that quick

Torro Rosso - Hard to judge given lack of experienced drivers, but nothing special

Marussia - Finally got the jump on Caterham + KERS this season?

Caterham - Going backwards.

[BernieEc]

Peter Sauber expects redbull to deliver a nasty surprise in melbourne Australia

http://www.gptoday.c...nasty_surprise/

[Markn93]

Peter Sauber expects redbull to deliver a nasty surprise in melbourne Australia

http://www.gptoday.c...nasty_surprise/

Have you read the quote?

[scheivlak]

Have you read the quote?

Full article: http://www.blick.ch/...-id2232695.html

Gptoday just took a headline out of its context.

[KnucklesAgain]

1. Red Bull
2. Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren, Merc
3. Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso, Williams
4. Caterham, Marussia

I think RB might be a bit in front, but who knows. Then 3 groups follow, with the order within each group being too close to call. Groups 2 and 3 may not even be clearly distinguished, and even RB might find itself surrounded by group 3 cars at any given race. Generally, the way the respective cars work on a given day/track/tyre will be more important than ideal maximum car pace. The WDC race will not boil down to 2 or 3 main combatants before summer.

Edit: Glad to see Peter Sauber agrees with me

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 11 March 2013 - 10:22.

[sheepgobba]

It will be Redbull-Ferrari-Lotus-Merc.

McLaren is somewhat a dark horse for me, as it may or may not have the fastest car but I just don't think the drivers will be good enough especially when the field is likely to be much closer.

Edited by sheepgobba, 11 March 2013 - 10:38.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

The problem with talking about a 2013 pecking order rather than a Melbourne pecking order before the first race is development, which means what might be the right pecking order now, could be torn to shreds by Brazil, which in a way makes this thread a bit pointless as not only does nobody really know the Melbourne pecking order for certain, but nobody has a clue as to what the development race will do to the pecking order by Brazil.

[noikeee]

Red Bull
Lotus
Ferrari
Mercedes
McLaren
Sauber
Williams
Force India
Toro Rosso
5 year old Super Aguris
a GP2
Stefan GP
the safety car
a Renault Clio
cargo trucks
a Reliant Robin
a toddler peddling a trycicle
Marussia
Caterham

[boldhakka]

The problem with talking about a 2013 pecking order rather than a Melbourne pecking order before the first race is development, which means what might be the right pecking order now, could be torn to shreds by Brazil, which in a way makes this thread a bit pointless as not only does nobody really know the Melbourne pecking order for certain, but nobody has a clue as to what the development race will do to the pecking order by Brazil.

Agreed.

I would suggest it is actually easier to predict the pecking order that will exist at Brazil 2013 than at Melbourne 2013. The usual suspects with the bigger budgets will pull ahead of the rest in development, and Pirelli will be bringing more conservative tyre choices later in the season (so as not to influence the title fight - their stated reason last year), and the teams would have understood the tyre by then, so there'll be less of a tyre lottery.

[DrivenF1]

Agreed.

I would suggest it is actually easier to predict the pecking order that will exist at Brazil 2013 than at Melbourne 2013. The usual suspects with the bigger budgets will pull ahead of the rest in development, and Pirelli will be bringing more conservative tyre choices later in the season (so as not to influence the title fight - their stated reason last year), and the teams would have understood the tyre by then, so there'll be less of a tyre lottery.

Agreed, however I'm of the feeling the grid will look something like this in Australia:

(1) Nico Rosberg
(2) Lewis Hamilton
(3) Sebastian Vettel
(4) Romain Grosjean
(5) Fernando Alonso
(6) Kimi Raikkonen
(7) Mark Webber
(8) Pastor Maldonado
(9) Jenson Button
(10) Valtteri Bottas
(11) Nico Hulkenberg
(12) Felipe Massa
(13) Sergio Perez

I could be so wrong though!

[mlsnoopy]

Agreed, however I'm of the feeling the grid will look something like this in Australia:

(1) Nico Rosberg
(2) Lewis Hamilton
(3) Sebastian Vettel
(4) Romain Grosjean
(5) Fernando Alonso
(6) Kimi Raikkonen
(7) Mark Webber
(8) Pastor Maldonado
(9) Jenson Button
(10) Valtteri Bottas
(11) Nico Hulkenberg
(12) Felipe Massa
(13) Sergio Perez

I could be so wrong though!

Imagine the **** storm in the McLaren thread.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Probably something like this.

1. Red Bull
2. Ferrari
3. Lotus
4. Mercedes
5. McLaren
6. Williams
7. Force India
8. Sauber
9. Toro Rosso
10. Marussia
11. Caterham

[AM14]

Just guessing here, but I'd go for this:
Red Bull > Lotus > Ferrari = Mercedes > McLaren > Sauber = Williams > Force India > Toro Rosso > Marussia = Caterham

[GlenP]

I don't believe the Mercedes leap to the top - it's not impossible I suppose, but it ain't likely either - especially with such stable rules.

Red Bull, Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren, Mercedes, Williams, Sauber, FI, STR, Caterham, Marussia.

Don't forget that at least one team will have a bit of 'mare in one or more of the first few races. When they get back to Europe we'll get a better idea.

[F1AC]

Sauber
Williams
Mercedes
Lotus
Force India
Toro Rosso
Red Bull
McLaren
Caterham
Marussia
Ferrari



Alonso

[Owen]

Probably something like this. Returns are deliberate!

Red Bull

Lotus

McLaren
Ferrari
Mercedes

Williams
Force India
Sauber

Toro Rosso

Marussia
Caterham

[MortenF1]

Agreed.

I would suggest it is actually easier to predict the pecking order that will exist at Brazil 2013 than at Melbourne 2013. The usual suspects with the bigger budgets will pull ahead of the rest in development, and Pirelli will be bringing more conservative tyre choices later in the season (so as not to influence the title fight - their stated reason last year), and the teams would have understood the tyre by then, so there'll be less of a tyre lottery.

Exactly, 'cause who would really bet against it being the usual big 3 at the front, at seasons end? I'll be surprised if the top three teams weren't Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari.

For Melbourne, or let's say the first few races, I expect some shake-ups, but not outrageous ones. Perhaps Red Bull and McLaren aren't yet where they want to be, so I've no idea really, if they'll be on the front-row or on the fourth row.

I think Lotus and Ferrari are well set, with Mercedes top six contenders. Force India best of the rest for a while, before they are overtaken by Williams.

[DrivenF1]

I don't believe the Mercedes leap to the top - it's not impossible I suppose, but it ain't likely either - especially with such stable rules.

Red Bull, Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren, Mercedes, Williams, Sauber, FI, STR, Caterham, Marussia.

Don't forget that at least one team will have a bit of 'mare in one or more of the first few races. When they get back to Europe we'll get a better idea.

I only place Mercedes on top because of the track dynamics in Australia. I feel the mechanical grip of the Mercedes (braking and traction) will make them rapid over one lap but they'll struggle on the abrasive surfaces through the race. I expect the RB, Lotus and Ferrari to reel them in.

Edited by Cult, 11 March 2013 - 22:38.

[GlenP]

Fair enough - almost anything is possible for the first race, particularly if a car suits the track as you say. I reckon Lotus myself as a slight outside bet for Melbourne. However - if they ran the Melbourne GP five times (and forgot what they learned each time, if you see what I mean) all the randomness would get ironed out and the top teams will still be the top teams.

[turssi]

Ferrari > Mercedes > Lotus > McLaren > Sauber > FI > RBR > Williams > STR > Caterham > Marussia

[FernuttonHulkkonen]

Red Bull>Mclaren>>Ferrari>Lotus>>Mercedes>Sauber>Williams>>Force India>>Toro Rosso>>>>Marussia>Caterham

[Owen]

Funny how everyone's response seems to be pretty different.

[Shiroo]

I've been reading all top teams topics and see how optimistic they are. And like everyone is thinking that his team is nr 1. I just wanna see that forum meltdown (I say that biggest one will be in mercedes) when they will happen to be worst from top 5. Oh man, will need to take a break from reading few topics then.

about order:

RBR > Lotus > Ferrari > Mercedes > McLaren > Rest

[Mrlarsen]

Ferrari > Mercedes > Lotus > McLaren > Sauber > FI > RBR > Williams > STR > Caterham > Marussia

Funny how some people thinks, that just because some teams look fast at training they also will be fast on the race track

If you know you got a fast car, there is no reason to your cards before the first race

My bet is that Mercedes isnt so close to the top as many people and experts think

Edited by Mrlarsen, 12 March 2013 - 13:43.

[InfectedPumpkin]

I have no idea!

[FernuttonHulkkonen]

I've been reading all top teams topics and see how optimistic they are. And like everyone is thinking that his team is nr 1. I just wanna see that forum meltdown (I say that biggest one will be in mercedes) when they will happen to be worst from top 5. Oh man, will need to take a break from reading few topics then.

about order:

RBR > Lotus > Ferrari > Mercedes > McLaren > Rest

completely agree with you

Every year it's the same on every forum around the world. Each fan eagerly believe his favourite driver will have a top car and etc

Mercedes being hyped would always gonna happen as soon as Lewis Hamilton joined

As with you, I also think it will be heart-breaking for Mercedes(actually Lewis') fans once the season actually starts.

Now it's all positive thinking, hopes up, excitment and etc. Soon, reality will strike again as only one team can be the fastest

Just to mention the drivers who are considered the top ones: Alonso's, Vettel's, Kimi's, Lewis' fans are all pretty happy and confident right now. After Melbourne, this will be already slightly diminished and just getting worse and worse as season unfolds.

Edited by FernuttonHulkkonen, 12 March 2013 - 22:47.

[Mc_Silver]

Red Bull > Ferrari > McLaren > Mercedes > Lotus > Williams > Sauber > Force India > Toro Rosso > Caterham > Maurissia