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Motor Racing at the BBC - BBC4 Mon 18th March


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#101 David Wright

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:32

Oh for those halcyon days, not so long ago, when the BBC made a program called Grumpy Old Men where grumpy old men spent time moaning about how bad things are today.

;)

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#102 D-Type

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 17:58

I missed this completely as I was away. Does anyone know if a repeat is scheduled?

#103 Alan Cox

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:00

I missed this completely as I was away. Does anyone know if a repeat is scheduled?

Sunday 24th March (i.e. tomorrow), 9pm BBC4, followed by part 2 on Monday 25th at 8.30pm, BBC4.

#104 D-Type

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:06

Sunday 24th March (i.e. tomorrow), 9pm BBC4, followed by part 2 on Monday 25th at 8.30pm, BBC4.

Thanks for the prompt reply :wave:

#105 BullHead

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 19:51

So disappointed.... I wanted a documentary programme. Might watch the other episodes, but really, I don't know if I'll bother.
It is daft to make a niche sports program that serves to annoy the only audience it's going to get. Effortless.

#106 RTH

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 21:06

Recorded this and only watched last night - before reading this thread - forgive me if this has been brought up before but one other jarring... er...aspect was the aspect ratio itself. As per modern standards the programme was done in 16:9 widescreen but every scrap of that footage would have been 4:3 so when Raymond Baxter shows us what was in the boot of his DB MkIII....we can't see it as it's been cut off to fill the frame!
That also led to a lot of the footage seeming far worse quality than it really was as it was simply blown-up too much. The ghastly colour side framing bars on many shots reduced this a little but why not just show it AS IT IS? We can all cope with old fashioned square-ish images without being reduced to tears at those nasty black bars along each side of our huge TV screens. Can't we :confused:



By mistake I recorded it in 4:3 - that did not help either when played back everything was too thin and pinched- clearly in transmission some of the image was lost for good.

#107 Dino246

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 15:03

It seems the BBC is not totally hopeless after all. I have just listened to a half hour programme on Radio 4 entitled Hunt/Lauda in which Vicki Butler-Henderson told the story of the 1976 season including comments from Nicki himself, Nigel Roebuck, Murray Walker, and Heinz Preisler (?) with clips of commentary from Barry Gill. Splendid clip of Murray trying to speak to James in the pit lane at the restart of the British GP. 'Not now, we are in a motor race, dear boy.'



#108 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 15:20

... Heinz Preisler (?)

Heinz Prüller, Austrian journalist, author and commentator.

I enjoyed the programme, which was well made and generally accurate. However I was very puzzled when they completely failed to mention Hunt's Spanish GP disqualification and later reinstatement, which I thought was one of the pivotal events of that season.

#109 MCS

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 15:27

Heinz Prüller, Austrian journalist, author and commentator.

I enjoyed the programme, which was well made and generally accurate. However I was very puzzled when they completely failed to mention Hunt's Spanish GP disqualification and later reinstatement, which I thought was one of the pivotal events of that season.


So, yet another factually hopeless performance. Not that accuracy counts for anything with the BBC these days. Why is their output so utterly annoying and, ultimately, useless?


#110 pete53

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 15:29

It seems the BBC is not totally hopeless after all. I have just listened to a half hour programme on Radio 4 entitled Hunt/Lauda in which Vicki Butler-Henderson told the story of the 1976 season including comments from Nicki himself, Nigel Roebuck, Murray Walker, and Heinz Preisler (?) with clips of commentary from Barry Gill. Splendid clip of Murray trying to speak to James in the pit lane at the restart of the British GP. 'Not now, we are in a motor race, dear boy.'

I just caught the last half of the programme and enjoyed it. I think, on the whole, radio treats its audience with more respect than TV. It doesn't always try to be popularist or gimmicky in the way that TV all too often does.

#111 john winfield

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 15:46

So, yet another factually hopeless performance. Not that accuracy counts for anything with the BBC these days. Why is their output so utterly annoying and, ultimately, useless?


It's not. Try watching and listening to some of the good things. Then imagine life without the BBC.


#112 john aston

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 16:32

Hear hear- and if we are raving about accuracy it's NIKI , not Nicki as quoted above. Whatever. Or do we need a special thread called "Why Oh Why BBC" ?

#113 Dino246

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 16:40

Sorry. That was carelessness on my part.

#114 LittleChris

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 21:03

Hunt / Lauda now on BBC Radio iPlayer

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01rfy5f



#115 Elwing

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 21:23

Unfortunately no BBC iPlayer outside of the UK- does anyone know of another way to listen to this program? Thank you!

#116 Peter Morley

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 21:33

Unfortunately no BBC iPlayer outside of the UK- does anyone know of another way to listen to this program? Thank you!


If you have an iPad you can pay to use iPlayer abroad.
Otherwise look at a programme called expat shield that apparently allows you to watch 'UK only' programmes.

Otherwise someone will probably upload it to Youtube at some time in the future!

#117 Elwing

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 21:35

I hope somebody will, because I am pad-less. Thank you!

#118 D-Type

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 21:45

Well, now that I've seen it I can't see what all the fuss is about!.

Except, of course, describing the Mille Miglia as a rally does demonstrate total ignorance on the part of the programme makers - I do wonder whatever happened to "If in doubt - find out; and if you can't find out - leave out!" Apart from that nothing stood out as downright wrong.

Likewise, I happened on the Hunt & Lauda radio programme when I turned on the car radio and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Am I mellowing in my old age?

Edited by D-Type, 25 March 2013 - 16:23.


#119 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:37

Unfortunately no BBC iPlayer outside of the UK- does anyone know of another way to listen to this program? Thank you!


I am on a Mac computer and can listen to it here in Canada.

Vince H.

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#120 RTH

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:38

The twits at the BBC should spend a day at one of your Film Shows...



Well that is very kind Mark thank you.
We just let film from the time speak for itself and have someone along who was there, happy to answer questions with background tales that never get on film.

#121 Rob29

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:06

BBC can make interesting programmes.Found one last night( while looking for something else) that they seem to want to keep secret :wave: A one hour biography of Susie Wolff-unfortunately only on BBC2 Scotland.I found I can receive this via Sky satelite system but missed the first half-has anyone else seen this?

Edited by Rob29, 25 March 2013 - 09:07.


#122 JtP1

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 17:24

BBC can make interesting programmes.Found one last night( while looking for something else) that they seem to want to keep secret :wave: A one hour biography of Susie Wolff-unfortunately only on BBC2 Scotland.I found I can receive this via Sky satelite system but missed the first half-has anyone else seen this?


Yes, made by a director/ writer who has never heard of Danica Patrick, Michelle Mouton and many others.

#123 David Lawson

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 17:57

The BBC Scotland programme about Susie Woolf is on the BBC website if you go onto the iplayer, TV channels, regional, Scotland.

David

#124 Vitesse2

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 18:00

Yes, made by a director/ writer who has never heard of Danica Patrick, Michelle Mouton and many others.

Her brother ...

It's on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk...n_in_the_World/

#125 RTH

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 21:13

'58-'68 tonight and a bit better I thought - OK they were none too scrupulous with correct chronology and accuracy of music to match the years, but more interesting footage - nice to see inside the BRM works circa 1962. Again 29mins far to short to cover 10 years- Interesting and glad they have done it. Presumably the 1970s next week.

#126 Pullman99

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 21:16

Part 2 was, thankfully, a lot better than Part 1 with some actual broadcast material in it as well as extracts from programmes like Blue Peter (featuring the 1968 Lotus 49B being fired up (!) and driven - sort of - by John Noakes) as well as the documentary on Colin Chapman in the "Millionaire" series. The 1966 British GP and 1967 Dutch being two examples. Would love to see the 1966 Dutch, however, as that was a Jim Clark epic. In a half-hour, you're not going to be able to do much apart from a selection of clips, and at least Cooper and Coventry-Climax received some exposure. BRM was pressented as the Champion of 1962 but no mention of that hard multi-cylinder slog to get there. Nice piece on Vanwall, though. So, guess I will have to watch the whole series now...

Edited by Pullman99, 04 May 2013 - 16:02.


#127 E.B.

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 21:16

They're getting closer - 1964 music on 1962 footage. I won't be asking for a licence refund.

#128 mscheeres

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 22:31

Come on BBC, show the full GPs and not these 30 second snippets :cat: :cry:

Episode 1 had some actual broadcast material too (Mille Miglia, Reims 53, Aintree 55 + 57 etc). Overall this episode was (much) better, footage-wise episode 1 was.

#129 David McKinney

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 22:42

Agree it was better than the first episode

Only real blue was the statement that Italian cars dominated the 1950s until Vanwall came on the scene. Don't know what Mercedes-Benz would think of that :drunk:

#130 Phil Rainford

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:28

Come on BBC, show the full GPs and not these 30 second snippets :cat: :cry:



Indeed ....this comment got me thinking

The BBC have had to pay people to look at all the archive footage that is on file

Waste of money as there is a huge potential workforce on this Forum that would have carried out the task for free :rotfl:

PAR

#131 Rob29

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:54

Her brother ...

It's on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk...n_in_the_World/

Thanks-Agreed prog title is rather stupid-guess must belong to some astronaut at about 25,000mph :wave: On this weekend results F1 teams could try out Simona?
Re,last nights prog no indication weather there is a third episode for the 70s.

#132 David McKinney

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:29

Re,last nights prog no indication weather there is a third episode for the 70s.

No, but it was listed as Episode 2 of 5...


#133 Stephen W

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:47

Part 2 was, thankfully, a lot better than Part 1 with some actual broadcast material in it as well as extracts from programmes like Blue Peter



Agree it was better than the first episode

Only real blue was the statement that Italian cars dominated the 1950s until Vanwall came on the scene. Don't know what Mercedes-Benz would think of that :drunk:


Yes a whole lot better, but it could hardly have been worse.

Maybe the subject matter was closer in time for the people who made it?

Nice snippet of Oliver at the '68 French GP after his almighty shunt as well as some interesting footage of the BRMs. I could have done without the Blue Peter footage which didn't contribute a whole lot but I suppose it did show the coverage that the sport was getting across the board.

#134 kayemod

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:50

Yes a whole lot better, but it could hardly have been worse.

I could have done without the Blue Peter footage which didn't contribute a whole lot but I suppose it did show the coverage that the sport was getting across the board.


At least they didn't show an elephant dropping turds and weeing on the car.


#135 Phil Rainford

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:15

At least they didn't show an elephant dropping turds and weeing on the car.


First thing that came to my mind too :rotfl:


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#136 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:06

On this weekend results F1 teams could try out Simona?

She was unlucky not to be on the podium at St Pete. A very impressive drive spoiled by her tyres going off in the last few laps. Coming off the last couple of corners it was obvious she had almost no grip on the back wheels. She strikes me as being a better driver than Danica was - at least on street and road courses. Shame she had to struggle with that awful Lotus engine last year, but I'm sure she'll get good support from KV this year - she'll be able to learn a lot from Tony Kanaan too. Looking forward to Barber ...

Re,last nights prog no indication weather there is a third episode for the 70s.

Part 3 will be on the 60s - apparently mainly based on footage from Wheelbase - and part 4 the 70s.

#137 JtP1

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:31

Part 2 was, thankfully, a lot better than Part 1 with some actual broadcast material in it as well as extracts from programmes like Blue Peter (featuring the 1968 Lotus 49B being fired up (!) and driven - sort of - by John Noake)s.


That'll be the 4 cylinder DFV, which possibly explaind why he stalled it. Since blue peter was aimed at the youth, this might explain the drop in mathematical standards in the country.

#138 nicanary

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:46

That'll be the 4 cylinder DFV, which possibly explaind why he stalled it. Since blue peter was aimed at the youth, this might explain the drop in mathematical standards in the country.


Yes, I found that extraordinary, and can only put it down to nerves. He pointed slowly and methodically at eight trumpets whilst counting to four !

(And our beloved Raymond Baxter called it the Monte Carlo Grand Prix)


#139 Pullman99

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 13:09

Yes, I found that extraordinary, and can only put it down to nerves. He pointed slowly and methodically at eight trumpets whilst counting to four ! (And our beloved Raymond Baxter called it the Monte Carlo Grand Prix)


Yes, noticed that, but very brave of Team to let him start it in the first place!

Raymond Baxter was in general very precise in his descriptions and I'm not sure if the average viewer would have noticed at the time. I remember that Graham Hill was doing an interview on the Robin Day radio programme and mention was made of the prospects for hosting a race in Birningham (about the time that Martin Hone was staring his on the streets days). Day asked Graham whether they were going to hold the Monte Carlo Rally in Birmingham! Clearly a petrolhead, then.

Some of the segment captions in Programme 2 were a bit odd as well. "Prince George" for East London, for instance.

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#140 Pullman99

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 13:16

I could have done without the Blue Peter footage which didn't contribute a whole lot but I suppose it did show the coverage that the sport was getting across the board.


We were all avid viewers for anything to do with motorsport - whatever the programme. Blue Peter were pretty good at getting some interesting vehicles in the studio including - if I'm not very much mistaken(!) - a Lotus 38 after the 1965 Indianpolis 500 (although not, obviously, 38/1). Tom Tom regularly updated the World Championship tables for younger viewers and had the Rex Hays models to demonstrate too. If the next episode features some material from Wheelbase, then that again would demonstrate that in lieu of live coverage, the weekly predecesor of Top Gear used to cover quite a lot of motorsport including Formula One right up to the early 1970s.

However, the BBC used to provide live coverage - including late night and early morning reports - of the Le Mans 24 Hours. The 1966 "photo-finish" and the 1969 GT40/Porsche Grand Prix would be great to see again!

#141 ensign14

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:21

Nice snippet of Oliver at the '68 French GP after his almighty shunt as well as some interesting footage of the BRMs. I could have done without the Blue Peter footage which didn't contribute a whole lot but I suppose it did show the coverage that the sport was getting across the board.

I found the BP footage interesting from a sociological perspective - how kids' TV was presented back then, at least by the Beeb. Even compared to the rest of the programme it looked old-fashioned, Meccano in the age of Beatlemania. Nice model 49 though.

At least catching up meant I could understand the critiques of last week's, but despite my advanced pedantry it didn't bother me, as it was in the same vein as other programmes the BBC has done in a similar vein; the music chosen not for historical accuracy but to convey something of the cutting-edge atmosphere. Motor racing being represented via a mainstream soundtrack like Sinatra in 1953 would have been wrong. Although they could have retained historical accuracy by recruiting someone like Big Joe Turner.

#142 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 15:49

I found the BP footage interesting from a sociological perspective - how kids' TV was presented back then, at least by the Beeb. Even compared to the rest of the programme it looked old-fashioned, Meccano in the age of Beatlemania.


Probably just pre-Magpie, which moved the goalposts a bit. Susan Stranks was quite a bit less "mumsy" than Judith Chalmers ;)

Nice model 49 though.

I'm guessing it was the work of either Gerald Wingrove or Rex Hays.

#143 kayemod

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 16:57

Probably just pre-Magpie, which moved the goalposts a bit. Susan Stranks was quite a bit less "mumsy" than Judith Chalmers ;)

I'm guessing it was the work of either Gerald Wingrove or Rex Hays.


It was indeed the work of Gerald Wingrove, and you can keep those BP women, Valerie Singleton was the one I youthfully lusted after.

I recorded the late night repeat of part 1, but after reading all the criticism in this thread, I wasn't in any great hurry to watch it. I eventually got around to it though, and watched part 2 as well, and I enjoyed them both. Sure, they were far from perfect, the clips were much too short and I'm sure the quality could have been better, but overall not too bad. The thing that irritated most was the way the chronology leaped around, film of the Fangio/Hawthorn duel at Rheims in 1953, with a clip from 54 showing Fangio in a W196 somewhere in the middle. The BBC must have far more material than this, surely they had enough for an entertaining hour or so on the 50s ?

Part 2 was better, but get this, I WAS ALMOST IN IT ! Honestly, that bit showing Colin Chapman in the main office at Lotus showed MY DESK! Admittedly, I hadn't yet joined the Company to occupy it, but if they'd filmed four or five years later, I'd have been there. Names have appeared in the programme credits for less than that.


#144 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 16:59

At least catching up meant I could understand the critiques of last week's, but despite my advanced pedantry it didn't bother me, as it was in the same vein as other programmes the BBC has done in a similar vein; the music chosen not for historical accuracy but to convey something of the cutting-edge atmosphere. Motor racing being represented via a mainstream soundtrack like Sinatra in 1953 would have been wrong. Although they could have retained historical accuracy by recruiting someone like Big Joe Turner.

The inclusion of 'Big Joe' would have improved things 100 per-cent!. :cool:

#145 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:03

I have given up, the continuity is so bad and the voicover peurile; cancelled series record...

#146 nicanary

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:04

Valerie Singleton ? Rumour has it you would have been wasting your time.

#147 kayemod

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:15

Valerie Singleton ? Rumour has it you would have been wasting your time.


I've heard those rumours, but Val denies them. She lived somewhere in Dorset, so if I'm fortunate enough to bump into her, I can ask her myself.


#148 nicanary

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:20

I've heard those rumours, but Val denies them. She lived somewhere in Dorset, so if I'm fortunate enough to bump into her, I can ask her myself.


As you do.


#149 Phil Rainford

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:30

I've heard those rumours, but Val denies them. She lived somewhere in Dorset, so if I'm fortunate enough to bump into her, I can ask her myself.


http://www.guardian....ision.gayrights

No longer a lesbian icon :eek:

PAR

#150 Rob29

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 17:37

No, but it was listed as Episode 2 of 5...

Gets sillier -next weeks 'Radio Times just received-lists episode 3 of 5-featuring the 60s-Jim Clark battling with Graham Hill=thought that was what we saw in episode 2 yesterday?