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Motor Racing at the BBC - BBC4 Mon 18th March


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#201 kayemod

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 20:59

Does such poor televisual fare not make the Maltese cross?


They only screen programme trailers, they call them 'Malteasers', and that makes them very cross indeed, they leave a nasty taste in Maltese mouths.

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#202 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:49

Oh dear, this is all soooooooo predictable. :lol:

#203 kevins

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 17:29

Donald Campbell: Speed King starting now 6.30 BBC2 NI (not sure if on other regions) - just seen it, sorry for late notice!

#204 RTH

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:42

Don't forget the 70s episode is on tonight number 4/5

#205 David McKinney

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:29

Sacrilege perhaps, but as it's now getting out of my area of greatest interest, and as the earlier programmes didn't excite me much, I'll give it a miss.

#206 RTH

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:50

What this exercise has revealed is that clearly some motor racing footage has been re-discovered at the BBC. These programes with just 28mins covering 10 years is sadly all too superficial.

Last night we can see that the documentary made around Graham Hill first forming his own team then having cars designed and built circa 73/5 is maybe a 1 hr film which would now be fascinating to watch again at 40 years distant.
Lets us hope the BBC will be encouraged enough to broadcast some of these programmes in their entirety.

#207 Gary C

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:01

Rich, some of Tony Malam's Graham Hill programme was used in Mark Craig's NGH documentary a couple of years ago.
In fact, I think he even used some out-takes.

#208 Mallory Dan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:54

I was interested to hear that NGH built his own 'Shadow' car for the '73 season. I wonder what the lads at AVS thought about that...Good shots though of him testing it, the 1 where he's driving it without the rear wing, anyone know where that was. It looked like there was a normal road just off the circuit?

The end shots of PAR's calendars, and the chap doing the Beach Buggy stuff were great, I expected to see Benny Hill pop up behind him!

#209 mscheeres

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:57

Interesting though that they are showing races which weren't shown on BBC at all!

#210 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:13

Interesting though that they are showing races which weren't shown on BBC at all!

I think you'll find those were from short reports on "Wheelbase". Not shown live, but using newsreel film flown in a day or two later.

#211 f1steveuk

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:31

I was interested to hear that NGH built his own 'Shadow' car for the '73 season. I wonder what the lads at AVS thought about that...Good shots though of him testing it, the 1 where he's driving it without the rear wing, anyone know where that was. It looked like there was a normal road just off the circuit?

From what I recall of the programme "Graham Hill's Shadow", they did build it, not much to do with Shadow, other than supplying a basic kit of parts. Now I last saw the programme when it was broadcast, but I am sure there was some re-skinning of bulkheads, fabricating of slightly different components away from what the UOP team were building in. In more recent years I was told that NGH did get some very QT help from Colin Chapman, and some other designers that NGH had worked with in the past. To all intents and purposes, once NGH had paid up, and AVS delivered the kit of parts, there wasn't a great deal more communication between the two. During the first part of the season, NGH found the handling of his car changed during the race, and it was found the the suspension was pulling out of the monocoque, and this lead to more "in house" re-designing. Again, from distant memory, I recall the scene when NGH is sitting in the unpainted tub, on a plastic bag, as the two part foam mix, is "growing around him to produce a fitted seat. "That feels warm and damp", says NGH, "I've felt that there before".................

#212 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:39

It was also interesting to hear Barrie Gill refer to it as "Graham Hill in the Embassy" on commentary.

I see they still can't spell Frostick either.

#213 kayemod

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:01

...from distant memory, I recall the scene when NGH is sitting in the unpainted tub, on a plastic bag, as the two part foam mix, is "growing around him to produce a fitted seat. "That feels warm and damp", says NGH, "I've felt that there before".................


He also made a comment like "Filling every nook & cranny..." I know because I was there. No VCR back then so I only had my mum's word for it, but she assured me that I was an overall-wearing figure in the background who was on-screen for several seconds. That was the only time I was ever in Graham's presence, and I found him slightly scary, very much the centre of attention, and didn't he know it, just acting up all the time for the camera. Has that programme ever been repeated? If it really was me, it's the only time in my entire life so far that I've been imortalised in that way, and I missed the moment.

#214 mscheeres

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:14

I think you'll find those were from short reports on "Wheelbase". Not shown live, but using newsreel film flown in a day or two later.


Doubt they are from Wheelbase as they look exactly like the other live broadcasts I have and are without commentary.
Zandvoort '73 was not shown on BBC at all (well, not live/delayed and not on Wheelbase either so far I know) and it looks completely identical to my copy of the world feed. And there was no commentary.

#215 f1steveuk

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:22

He also made a comment like "Filling every nook & cranny..." I know because I was there. No VCR back then so I only had my mum's word for it, but she assured me that I was an overall-wearing figure in the background who was on-screen for several seconds. That was the only time I was ever in Graham's presence, and I found him slightly scary, very much the centre of attention, and didn't he know it, just acting up all the time for the camera. Has that programme ever been repeated? If it really was me, it's the only time in my entire life so far that I've been imortalised in that way, and I missed the moment.


I believe the rights went to Embassy's parent company, and it has never been seen of since. I tried to track a copy down for the library at Formula One Management, but drew blanks everywhere. Someone said they had a copy on Betamax (they were about, but as rare as.....), but it appears to have vanished, sadly.

#216 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:29

Doubt they are from Wheelbase as they look exactly like the other live broadcasts I have and are without commentary.
Zandvoort '73 was not shown on BBC at all (well, not live/delayed and not on Wheelbase either so far I know) and it looks completely identical to my copy of the world feed. And there was no commentary.

Possibly unused footage from BBC News? Or maybe obtained afterwards with a view to using it in something else like a review of the year but never broadcast at the time due to the sensitivity of the material?

#217 mscheeres

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:34

Possibly unused footage from BBC News? Or maybe obtained afterwards with a view to using it in something else like a review of the year but never broadcast at the time due to the sensitivity of the material?


There was no feed transmitted to the UK. I have a newspaper article somewhere stating to which countries the feed was sent, the race was live in a lot of countries but not shown at all on British TV (unless on news or a sports show as I have no records of that). Same for Monaco '74.

#218 RTH

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:42

From what I recall of the programme "Graham Hill's Shadow", they did build it, not much to do with Shadow, other than supplying a basic kit of parts. Now I last saw the programme when it was broadcast, but I am sure there was some re-skinning of bulkheads, fabricating of slightly different components away from what the UOP team were building in. In more recent years I was told that NGH did get some very QT help from Colin Chapman, and some other designers that NGH had worked with in the past. To all intents and purposes, once NGH had paid up, and AVS delivered the kit of parts, there wasn't a great deal more communication between the two. During the first part of the season, NGH found the handling of his car changed during the race, and it was found the the suspension was pulling out of the monocoque, and this lead to more "in house" re-designing. Again, from distant memory, I recall the scene when NGH is sitting in the unpainted tub, on a plastic bag, as the two part foam mix, is "growing around him to produce a fitted seat. "That feels warm and damp", says NGH, "I've felt that there before".................

Exactly as i recall it Steve.

#219 Gary C

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:25

I would think thatTony Maylam still has the original film....if my comment earlier about out-takes is to be believed.
Does anyone know what the original programme / series consisted of? I've love to resurrect it and release it on DVD.

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#220 f1steveuk

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:42

I thought it was one, one hour prog', but I have slept since then!!!

The footage of poor Roger in Holland was filmed by Afava, it's the only place I have ever seen it, and having had to watch all the footage, I'd rather it had stayed in the archive.


#221 Macca

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 14:57

The circuit where NGH was testing the Shadow is Goodwood - the long shot with the road in the background is coming out of Lavant, with New Road in view towards Lavant village.

I remember the documentary, with them filling the deformable structure cavity with the foam and it overflowing while they tried to block it or pretend to trim it off with a bit of cardboard or suchlike.

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 09 April 2013 - 16:35.


#222 dweller23

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 16:18

I think you'll find those were from short reports on "Wheelbase". Not shown live, but using newsreel film flown in a day or two later.

Zolder 73 seems to be taken from Wheelbase.

Zandvoort 73 and Monaco 74 weren't broadcasted by BBC, so they have "natural" sound, without commentary.

The rest of world feed footage was shown either live or in highlights by BBC (and they usually have Baxter's commentary).

#223 kayemod

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 16:39

The rest of world feed footage was shown either live or in highlights by BBC (and they usually have Baxter's commentary).


I made a comment earlier in this thread on Raymond Baxter, I read his autobiography some years ago and decided I didn't like him very much at all. He isn't going to tell us on here, but I think the book was ghosted by the rightfully esteemed Tony Dron, and I wondered if the tone of that book is in some way a reflection of how the two interacted, maybe TD didn't like RB very much either. I wouldn't recommend that book as an entertaining read to anyone, but one thing that struck me about what motor racing content there is, was that there's almost no 'insider' stuff at all, I got the distinct impression that Baxter hadn't been greatly accepted or even liked by racing people, the complete antithesis of Murray Walker in fact. Is there anyone on here old enough to have any personal reminiscences, I wouldn't really want to blacken Raymond's character further, but he's not around to complain or sue.


#224 PeterElleray

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 17:53

Zolder 73 seems to be taken from Wheelbase.

Zandvoort 73 and Monaco 74 weren't broadcasted by BBC, so they have "natural" sound, without commentary.

The rest of world feed footage was shown either live or in highlights by BBC (and they usually have Baxter's commentary).


Zolder 73 was broadcast on wheelbase the week after the race, i remember watching it.
I am sure that Monaco 74 was broadcast by the BBC live or semi live, in the usual small ,bytes, first 15mins, then 5 mins etc then the finish but that wasnt transmitted live as i recall. i think an RB commentary.
Zandvoort 73 was only broadcast at the time on the BBC evening news.

Peter


#225 f1steveuk

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 18:07

I made a comment earlier in this thread on Raymond Baxter, I read his autobiography some years ago and decided I didn't like him very much at all. He isn't going to tell us on here, but I think the book was ghosted by the rightfully esteemed Tony Dron, and I wondered if the tone of that book is in some way a reflection of how the two interacted, maybe TD didn't like RB very much either. I wouldn't recommend that book as an entertaining read to anyone, but one thing that struck me about what motor racing content there is, was that there's almost no 'insider' stuff at all, I got the distinct impression that Baxter hadn't been greatly accepted or even liked by racing people, the complete antithesis of Murray Walker in fact. Is there anyone on here old enough to have any personal reminiscences, I wouldn't really want to blacken Raymond's character further, but he's not around to complain or sue.


I had the pleasure of working with Ray a few times, and I'm a little surprised by that. Now I am the first to admit, this must have Ray's slant on it, but!

On one visit to his home to discuss an up coming project, we were drinking tea and he was showing me a photo album. There were quite a few of charity/fun events, like all the GP drivers racing karts, and in most, the only other person driving karts, other than the GP drivers was Ray. He said he was always invited, and felt a fraud, as he felt he shouldn't be included, but of course he had done the Monte etc, but still, he must have been asked for a reason?

I liked him very much, and at the odd times I was with him, and an old driver was there, there seemed to be genuine affection for him, and he did know his stuff. Much though I like Murray, I have never felt he could sit and tell you the differences between a C and a D spec car, as Ray could, and did! Although on the other side of the coin, catch him on an off day, and he could be a little "short", so who knows?

Edited by f1steveuk, 09 April 2013 - 18:08.


#226 dweller23

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 20:16

Zolder 73 was broadcast on wheelbase the week after the race, i remember watching it.
I am sure that Monaco 74 was broadcast by the BBC live or semi live, in the usual small ,bytes, first 15mins, then 5 mins etc then the finish but that wasnt transmitted live as i recall. i think an RB commentary.
Zandvoort 73 was only broadcast at the time on the BBC evening news.

Peter

Hmm, it seems that there was a mistake on my broadcasts list - BBC and BBC2 both showed Monaco GP, most likely highlights however - from 5:35 PM until 6.05 (on BBC1) and until 6.45 (on BBC2). Still - this one probably didn't survive, hence no commentary version?

#227 PeterElleray

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 23:32

Hmm, it seems that there was a mistake on my broadcasts list - BBC and BBC2 both showed Monaco GP, most likely highlights however - from 5:35 PM until 6.05 (on BBC1) and until 6.45 (on BBC2). Still - this one probably didn't survive, hence no commentary version?


sounds about right - i have a vague recollection that the transmission wasnt as billed in R.Times, but could be the wet dry race in 75 i am confusing this with - the transmission of that seemed shambolic at the time - was that Baxters last commentary out of interest?

Peter

#228 Gary C

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:27

Lads, I've been in touch with Mark Craig (director of both the Jim Clark and Graham Hill documentaries) and he says that the chances of getting either or both released on DVD are very slim indeed. The film rights would be an absolute nightmare to clear, especially, as he says, some of it was sourced from the States. Shame.

#229 mscheeres

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:03

Lads, I've been in touch with Mark Craig (director of both the Jim Clark and Graham Hill documentaries) and he says that the chances of getting either or both released on DVD are very slim indeed. The film rights would be an absolute nightmare to clear, especially, as he says, some of it was sourced from the States. Shame.


A yearly repeat should be possible (if it is the same like the excellent Belga Sport series on Belgian TV - they can rebroadcast the shows as many times as they want but cannot release them on DVD) and will give people enough options to get a copy on DVD, just not officially  ;)

#230 crooky369

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 21:12

It was also interesting to hear Barrie Gill refer to it as "Graham Hill in the Embassy" on commentary.

I see they still can't spell Frostick either.


Explains why I couldn't find him on google....

Wheelbase looks pretty good though I'm hoping there's some decent content to find on the Internet.

#231 john aston

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:41

Wheelbase had the odd gem but most of it was pretty dire."Let's have a look in the new Dolomite's boot..mm..easily enough space for a week away's luggage there. Now let's inspect the new windscreen washers their engineers have been working on" Etc.

#232 kayemod

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:52

Wheelbase had the odd gem but most of it was pretty dire."Let's have a look in the new Dolomite's boot..mm..easily enough space for a week away's luggage there. Now let's inspect the new windscreen washers their engineers have been working on" Etc.


Chris Goffey, brown anorak and beard. "Now let's see what she'll do..."


#233 RTH

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:17

Wheelbase had the odd gem but most of it was pretty dire."Let's have a look in the new Dolomite's boot..mm..easily enough space for a week away's luggage there. Now let's inspect the new windscreen washers their engineers have been working on" Etc.



True- still be nice to see them all again at 45 years distance now.

#234 ensign14

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:20

True- still be nice to see them all again at 45 years distance now.

Doubt there are many Dolomites left.

#235 RTH

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:25

Doubt there are many Dolomites left.


Lets hope they kept all the old episodes.

#236 Glengavel

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 18:06

Doubt there are many Dolomites left.


A few hundred according to howmanyleft

#237 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 18:13

A few hundred according to howmanyleft

More on SORN than licensed :lol:

#238 kayemod

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 18:31

More on SORN than licensed :lol:


Probably all waiting for head gasket replacement.


#239 ensign14

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 19:31

The Morris Marina is the most scrapped car in British history. In 2006 the survival rate was reckoned at 0.09%. I think that's vaguely topical as it epitomizes the miasma of the British car industry under nationalization.

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#240 mfd

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 20:09

The Morris Marina is the most scrapped car in British history.

Does this mean they're collectible?

#241 ensign14

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 20:36

It's getting that way. Although it might go the way of smallpox, i.e. be deliberately eliminated (perhaps by Top Gear) so that humankind can never be blighted by its presence again.

Still better than the Allegro though.

#242 mfd

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 21:47

Still better than the Allegro though.

BL became quite good at inventing words - Hydrolastic & whatever they called the shape of a square wheel (steering)

#243 kayemod

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 21:58

BL became quite good at inventing words - Hydrolastic & whatever they called the shape of a square wheel (steering)


Quartic.


#244 mfd

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 22:01

Quartic.

Thanks Rob :D I can sleep easily now...

#245 kayemod

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 22:24

Thanks Rob :D I can sleep easily now...


Don't let the bugs bite.


#246 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:54

Having done my apprenticeship through British Leyand, Leyland Vehicles, Austin Rover, Jaguar Rover Triumph, and whatever they called themselves during the period, and it was the period of the Marina, Allegro, Princess, SD1 Montego Metro and Maestro, I can assure you, it scared me for life........

#247 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:23

I can assure you, it scared me for life........

I can't work out whether or not that's a typo! :lol:

#248 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:28

It could have been either, scared or scarred :drunk:

#249 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 17:18

Was really nice to see Tony Lanfranchi in the latest episode but a shame they couldn't describe what/who the Doghouse is.

#250 john winfield

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 17:24

Was really nice to see Tony Lanfranchi in the latest episode..... but a shame they couldn't describe what/who the Doghouse is.


I thought that too, Gregor. It was not a 'Racing Drivers' Widows' Club' was it?

Edited by john winfield, 14 April 2013 - 17:25.