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Cars we learned to steer


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#51 Dipster

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 17:42

Kero would be what we called TVO in the UK? Tractor Vaporising Oil, or paraffin with some aromatics added.



TVO it was indeed. That is what fueled the Mr Whippy ice cream van's (remember those?) auxiliary engines too.

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#52 Allan Lupton

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 18:11

Kero would be what we called TVO in the UK? Tractor Vaporising Oil, or paraffin with some aromatics added.

I'm told that JP4/AVTAG (Wide-Cut gasoline jet fuel) was a suitable substitute for TVO - but I'm not sure it's used even in military aviation any more.
My Massey Harris ran on real TVO in the 1940s of course as it was common and jet fuel wasn't.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 14 March 2013 - 18:13.


#53 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 21:27

It was known as 'Power Kerosene' here...

Commonly used in tractors into the sixties, if you dared risk your valves and seats in your car during petrol rationing (ended September '49), in some trucks as well.

#54 arttidesco

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 21:52

Had no idea this thread would take off quite so quickly :cool:

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When I asked my Mum for the pics of me behind the wheel of a Beetle that follow I got a bit more than I bargained for, above my Mum is driving her uncles Borgward on her parents farm six months before I was born in August 1958 :blush:

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Six months after I was born sampling the delights of a hired open top Beetle in August 1959.

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One year later in August 1960 I can stand at the wheel of another hired Beetle in the Hermans Denkmal car park, notice the Mercedes 190 SL in the background.

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Of course the big shiny button in the centre of the steering wheel held a particular fascination as it would for any 18 month old :cat:

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By March 1961 I had learned some general courtesies like holding the door of my Uncles new DKW Sonderclasse open for my long suffering Grand Mother ...

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before following in the footsteps of Juan Manuel Fangio and Jim Clark and impressing her with my car control driving round the farm yard  ;)

#55 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 23:57

It was known as 'Power Kerosene' here...

Commonly used in tractors into the sixties, if you dared risk your valves and seats in your car during petrol rationing (ended September '49), in some trucks as well.

We used a kero Fordson in the 60s.
During the fuel strikes in the early 70s we used Power Kero to run the 'fleet' where I then worked. The fleet was a FB Holden ute and a Chrysler Royal V8 wagon. The Holden was very good on it, the Mopar not very. We used a bit of mower fuel down the carbs to get them to go on the cold mornings.
It actually got us some business as other suppliers could not deliver where we could.
Though can you still buy power kero now?

#56 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 00:30

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
.....and a Chrysler Royal V8 wagon.....


That would be a Chrysler Plainsman?

They didn't carry the Royal nameplate at all...

#57 BMH Comic

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 00:56

We used a kero Fordson in the 60s.
During the fuel strikes in the early 70s we used Power Kero to run the 'fleet' where I then worked. The fleet was a FB Holden ute and a Chrysler Royal V8 wagon. The Holden was very good on it, the Mopar not very. We used a bit of mower fuel down the carbs to get them to go on the cold mornings.
It actually got us some business as other suppliers could not deliver where we could.
Though can you still buy power kero now?


I read this item with some amusement(read that to be tears in my eyes) and must tell the story of the Honda 360, my sisters first car. It could run and start on neat home heating oil. Now my sis is a much organized person and very diligent, her car was always, the only car with petrol in it when we were young, it was often and always borrowed with the understanding that it had to come back full of fuel. As she is a protected species in our family and one who we would never cross, us five brothers would fill the tank with FUEL each and every time we borrowed it.

Now quite unexpectedly one day the Honda melted a couple of pistons, there were only two, so I guess that most understand that it just up and died! It got carted off to get fixed and the local Honda dealer was quite perplexed why?

Meanwhile back at the ranch we five boys were simultaneously having huge guilt trips as we had all borrowed the Honda and all filled it up.

Turns out that my twin was topping it back up with thinners from the paint shop, I used to use Home heating oil as that was about half the price of petrol as did two of my elder brothers, big brother gave it liberal doses of Diesel. So I recon the petrol content on the day it died was about 0.00% petrol.


#58 David Birchall

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:44

Of course, Jeff Gordon had a different experience:
http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be

Apologies if this has been seen before, is inappropriate, is too modern etc...

#59 RCH

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:07

Back during the 1956/7 Suez petrol rationing a customer of my father's hardware store ran his pre war Rover quite happily on paraffin (kerosene), I guess there were probably many others as well. He fitted it up with an extra tank and a 3 port valve so he could start on petrol and switch to paraffin. My father was always sceptical and dubious about it but quite happily supplied the paraffin. An offer to convert our newly acquired Zodiac didn't go down too well though!

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#60 kayemod

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:26

I think modern engines, both diesel and petrol are very much fussier than that. The dealers who supplied my last three cars gave strict verbal instructions never to use supermarket fuel, and some manufacturers tell us never to try to run our cars on any Euro/Eco concoctions, reclaimed chip fat etc, I think all say that eventual engine damage will result, as with BMH's sister's little Honda, and warranty wouldn't cover it. When the economy dropped off quite suddenly on one of my cars a few years ago, the first thing they asked me was if I'd been filling up at Tesco. It was some kind of gumming-up problem, as a can of additive in the tank restored trip computer readouts within a few miles. I treat my cars to occasional tankfuls of the expensive stuff, labelled Ultra, Excellium etc. Not sure that I've ever detected gains in either performance or economy though, but I can usually convince myself that the cars feel better.

#61 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:34

Rex Law was a coach operator servicing Gold Coast destinations in the late forties and early fifties...

At one point he bought an old International bus with a licence to operate between Brisbane and Sydney. It was losing money, but Rex saw the future in it.

He would drive it himself, leaving Brisbane on petrol and pulling up for morning tea at Aratula, just west of Ipswich. While the passengers got their refreshments, Rex would climb under the bus and switch to the cheaper fuel. Once he got to Sydney he'd park the bus and walk a mile (to save fuel) to buy his meal. On the return trip he performed the same services.

It didn't take long for the old Inter engine to protest, valve seats disappearing under the onslaught. So Rex got the Cadillac V8 out of his Regal Special and mounted it in the back to create Australia's first rear engined bus. The rear axle was turned over to suit and the original tail shaft was tied with wire to the chassis in case the Caddy engine failed and the Inter engine was once again needed.

That business grew into the largest interstate coach fleet in Australia. But they got new buses with diesel engines after that.

#62 Dipster

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:14

I think modern engines, both diesel and petrol are very much fussier than that. The dealers who supplied my last three cars gave strict verbal instructions never to use supermarket fuel, and some manufacturers tell us never to try to run our cars on any Euro/Eco concoctions, reclaimed chip fat etc, I think all say that eventual engine damage will result, as with BMH's sister's little Honda, and warranty wouldn't cover it. When the economy dropped off quite suddenly on one of my cars a few years ago, the first thing they asked me was if I'd been filling up at Tesco. It was some kind of gumming-up problem, as a can of additive in the tank restored trip computer readouts within a few miles. I treat my cars to occasional tankfuls of the expensive stuff, labelled Ultra, Excellium etc. Not sure that I've ever detected gains in either performance or economy though, but I can usually convince myself that the cars feel better.



There is certainly a big difference with diesel fuels in Europe. In most countries of Africa the diesel is poor quality but suits my "rest of world spec" Land Rover Defender very well. But in Europe I avoid quality diesels as they tend to be a bit smoky, give me less power and cost more. Quite illogical but that's my experience.

I once ran out of fuel miles from anywhere but happened to have a galon of paraffin. It got me out of trouble but the van smelt like a cheap oil heater and of course, in the UK, it was (is?) actually illegal.... The tax man loses his amazinlgy high tax.
(Editing to point out that this was years ago in an old petrol engined Ford van. My present Land Rover diesel injection pump would probably give up if I used paraffin!

Just a few months ago in Morocco I used to fill up (80 litres) for about £35. Yet the locals moaned at the price!

Edited by Dipster, 15 March 2013 - 12:20.


#63 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:28

Warnings from sales people and even manufacturers is often simply scare tactics...

If they can convince you not to use something like that you will always be careful about what you do use, I guess.

#64 kayemod

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 13:05

Warnings from sales people and even manufacturers is often simply scare tactics...

If they can convince you not to use something like that you will always be careful about what you do use, I guess.


I think there's a lot of truth in that, to some extent they're just covering themselves, but a couple of years ago,a big tank at a supermarket filling station in Essex was filled up with something it shouldn't have been. Cars were able to drive away, but were dying with expensive injector failures in droves, so I always err on the side of caution.


#65 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 13:17

Here the supermarkets are tied with oil companies...

Coles with Shell, Woolworths with Caltex. Woolworths started out importing fuel from Singapore, but they did a deal with Caltex, taking over a large number of their service stations as well as many Liberty (also supplied by Caltex) over a decade ago.

The other warning issued is about using E10 fuel.

#66 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 23:16

Here the supermarkets are tied with oil companies...

Coles with Shell, Woolworths with Caltex. Woolworths started out importing fuel from Singapore, but they did a deal with Caltex, taking over a large number of their service stations as well as many Liberty (also supplied by Caltex) over a decade ago.

The other warning issued is about using E10 fuel.

Many people will tell you that Coles/ Woolies fuel is often crap. A tightassed mate will never run his cars on it, even with the vouchers as he had some expensive dramas. Blocked filters, a stuffed efi pump, a blocked carby,, even with a fuel filter and a car that pinged its head off, literally as it blew a headgasket. A Starwagon, a Landcruiser, a Nissan Patrol, a Kingswood and a Vauxhall, a nice diverse range!
I bought 68 litres once from a Woolies site,, for a 62 litre tank that still had 80km to go.Not been back since.
Though I have had bad fuel from other suppliers too, BP eventually cost me an engine rebuild. [broke a piston skirt]I drove into a site, bought the 98 octane and a mile later it was detonating badly. This on my 400 Ford Galaxie with 10-1 compression. I sent a sample away and they said it was ok. I sucked the tank, luckily not full bought a different brand and it was ok.
These days I use the 100 octane ethanol blend in that car and it seems to like it, never pings, starts well BUT it has for some reason made the teflon needle valve in the Holley carb swell, I replaced that with a std steel one which I prefer anyway.Everything else is still hanging in there fine.
Coming back from Qld in a V8 Landcruiser the worse economy I got was Coles fuel from a site in western NSW. Though it was a very hot day too. But about 80k less on that tank [90l] at the same cruise control speed.
The ethanol blend I bought in Brisbane cheaper was the best. Though that stuff can be a bit hit and miss, and it loves cold weather.
Some upmarket makes here in Oz actually will send you away if they reckon fuel caused the engine dramas, and quite probably they are right too to. Though they do stretch the envelope with the engine management to run on 91 octane fuel, they go a lot better, and dont have the problems on the recomended 98 octane. 91 is often less it appears and that will break them.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 15 March 2013 - 23:22.


#67 B Squared

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:06

Not steering in this shot, but a young B² in Dad and Moms Model J Duesenberg in 1959. Older brother on the running board, Dad had rescued this car from under a barn in 1957 and was in the process of bringing it back with a complete, "ground-up" restoration.

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The car still carries the restoration that Dad did all of those years ago.
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#68 arttidesco

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:06

a young B² in Dad and Moms Model J Duesenberg in 1959.


That's a mighty impressive motor to be learning to steer :up:

#69 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:22

Re the duff fuel debate, very relevant in this house starting last Tuesday. Although I cover a fair mileage, by happenstance I nearly always refuel - with diesel - in our local Sainsbury's, because it's cheap and I haven't found reason to doubt their quality. Mrs N and I took our grand-daughter back home 3 miles away, and I mentioned that the Land Rover's tank needed a refill. I was about to head off the S's when Mrs said "Why make the detour, why not fill up here" since we were just approaching a newly refurbished Shell station. So I filled up there instead. Bad idea.

I run a diesel Landie.

Slightly jet-lagged, operating on auto, I'd filled it with petrol.

Years of using S's pumps, with bright green hoses for petrol and black for diesel, had conditioned me not to notice that the freshly refurbed Shell station's hoses are ALL black...

Anyway - my balls-up.

Despite running fine for the 3 mile drive home, next day, after a cold night's soak, the Landie was reluctant to start, ran like a bag of bolts, and after 400 yards down our lane, died.

Landie distributor now has it to drain fuel, purge etc. It's their Service Bulletin instructions, etc, which contain the sting. Estimated recommended repair price is...wait for it...

£7,286.43.

Hmmmm - just let me think about that one.

DCN

#70 kayemod

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:27

Landie distributor now has it to drain fuel, purge etc. It's their Service Bulletin instructions, etc, which contain the sting. Estimated recommended repair price is...wait for it...

£7,286.43.

Hmmmm - just let me think about that one.

DCN


Hard luck Doug, that's something I live in terror of doing myself. Usual advice is to leave it at the filling station and walk home, to minimise damage. You'll have wrecked all the fuel pumps, injectors, seals, fuel lines, and probably the tank, wouldn't a new engine be cheaper?


#71 Dipster

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:52

Hard luck Doug, that's something I live in terror of doing myself. Usual advice is to leave it at the filling station and walk home, to minimise damage. You'll have wrecked all the fuel pumps, injectors, seals, fuel lines, and probably the tank, wouldn't a new engine be cheaper?


Sorry to read of this incident. Why don't we have different shaped nozzles for Diesel pump pistols? You would see instantly that things are not quite right.

And this silly mistake is so easily done when tired. I did it myself on New Years Eve. But I noticed after pumping only 8 litres. This is only 10% of my Defender's tank capacity. No great problem as we habitually ran this petrol/diesel mix in wintery Moscow to avoid fuel waxing. It had no effect on the vehicle at all.

I imagine Doug is running a modern hi-tech LR product (unlike my 15 year old Defender - but I did buy it new!). As already mentioned this will most likely have bu**ered many bits that will need replacing, And at LR parts and labour prices this will hurt.

That's why I have kept what I refer to as my "JCB with seats" Defender (that's probably unfair to JCB's excellent products). It's simple mechanically, I can fix it and parts are dirt cheap.

I hope you are back on the road soon Doug.

Edited by Dipster, 16 March 2013 - 12:53.


#72 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 13:16

Re the duff fuel debate, very relevant in this house starting last Tuesday. Although I cover a fair mileage, by happenstance I nearly always refuel - with diesel - in our local Sainsbury's, because it's cheap and I haven't found reason to doubt their quality. Mrs N and I took our grand-daughter back home 3 miles away, and I mentioned that the Land Rover's tank needed a refill. I was about to head off the S's when Mrs said "Why make the detour, why not fill up here" since we were just approaching a newly refurbished Shell station. So I filled up there instead. Bad idea.

I run a diesel Landie.

Slightly jet-lagged, operating on auto, I'd filled it with petrol.

Years of using S's pumps, with bright green hoses for petrol and black for diesel, had conditioned me not to notice that the freshly refurbed Shell station's hoses are ALL black...

Anyway - my balls-up.

Despite running fine for the 3 mile drive home, next day, after a cold night's soak, the Landie was reluctant to start, ran like a bag of bolts, and after 400 yards down our lane, died.

Landie distributor now has it to drain fuel, purge etc. It's their Service Bulletin instructions, etc, which contain the sting. Estimated recommended repair price is...wait for it...

£7,286.43.

Hmmmm - just let me think about that one.

DCN

Bad Luck Doug, It is not hard to do, I have done it myself but realised soon after I started and only put in a couple of litres. both petrol into a diesel or diesel into a petrol. I realised by the grubby hose too late.
I once had a customer fill a petrol car full of diesel. Not a nice job, though just time consuming really rinsing the worst of the diesel out of everything

#73 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:35

I am receiving split advice. Some engineers well versed in these things are advising that LR's standard reaction, which is to replace every darned thing including the coal scuttle, staircase and door knocker is over the top for such little misfuelled use. Careful flush-through and fuel filter changes 'might' suffice. I know it's worked fine in several cases, so I guess I'll soon find out... There's a whole sub-industry that's grown up on misfuelling; 150,000 British chumps a year do it. I've just joined a huge club... :blush:

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 16 March 2013 - 16:40.


#74 Allan Lupton

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 17:57

There's a whole sub-industry that's grown up on misfuelling; 150,000 British chumps a year do it.

Some years ago I asked a man with an early steam car what fuel he used and he said "a random mixture of DERV and Unleaded Petrol" - it turned out that even then there was enough misfuelling that there was a good supply of pump-out stuff at most filling stations that they were only too pleased to let him have!

#75 Dipster

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 18:22

I am receiving split advice. Some engineers well versed in these things are advising that LR's standard reaction, which is to replace every darned thing including the coal scuttle, staircase and door knocker is over the top for such little misfuelled use. Careful flush-through and fuel filter changes 'might' suffice. I know it's worked fine in several cases, so I guess I'll soon find out... There's a whole sub-industry that's grown up on misfuelling; 150,000 British chumps a year do it. I've just joined a huge club... :blush:

DCN



Doug,

Up until 6 months ago I had responsibilty for the reliability of several Disco 3s, 4s and Ranger Rovers, all based overseas. To maintain them we had a contract with the maufacturer who sent a technician out regularly to do whatever was necessary. We always had the same guy who was a real enthusiast. I spoke to him often about cars of course and the mis-fueling subject came up when a colleague did exactly what we are taliking of, mis-fueling his car (a diesel X5) and the financial consequences at the local BMW dealer. Like you it was second mortgage stuff.

My technician said that, in fact, petrol in a modern LR diesel causes all manner of problems. It harms the fuel pump first then the components leading rght up to the the injectors. He reckoned in extreme cases it can destroy head gaskets and even damage main and big end bearings. The latter due to the extra ptency of petrol causing extra pressure on pistons passing the load to the bearings.

This guy is very much a feet-on-the-ground bloke. I do not think he was merely passing on the company line. If you are not sure you could always seek the opinonof non-franchised LR specialists. There re load about and many realy know their stuff, based on experience.

Good luck.

#76 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 18:29

Thanks for cheering me up.

DCN



#77 Dipster

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 18:37

Thanks for cheering me up.

DCN



Sorry Doug, but that is what I understand to be the truth...

I would get an opinion from a on-franchiseed specialist. What you decide may be influenced by whether the vehicle still benefits from a manufacturer's warranty. If it does and you do not follow their counsel they might be in a position to refuse any subsequent claim on any fuel-line related items that fail.

#78 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 21:21

I would definitely go the 'drain everything' route... filter, pump, lines and anything you can undo, put diesel in there physically and then bolt it all back together...

Bleeding is probably a problem, but not insurmountable when there's a huge bill to be avoided, I would think it will work out okay with that small exposure. But I wouldn't leave it too long...

As for Lee's account of his mate destroying every car he had with Woolworths' fuel, I call that rubbish!

#79 GMACKIE

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 22:04

I believe we do often 'get dudded' with fuel. How do you know he true octane rating, or amount of contamination of the stuff that goes into the tank?

A friend filled his [high-performance] car with '98' fuel, at the local Shell [Coles] service station. It proceeded to run very badly, and after replacing filters, cleaning out all fuel line,etc., he had the fuel analyzed.....it contained a lot of diesel! The service station paid his out-of-pocket expenses, so they must have been aware of the problem. How often does this sort of thing happen?

Sorry for straying even further off topic. :blush:

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#80 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 22:45

I would definitely go the 'drain everything' route... filter, pump, lines and anything you can undo, put diesel in there physically and then bolt it all back together...

Bleeding is probably a problem, but not insurmountable when there's a huge bill to be avoided, I would think it will work out okay with that small exposure. But I wouldn't leave it too long...

As for Lee's account of his mate destroying every car he had with Woolworths' fuel, I call that rubbish!

Ray,it did not destroy, just did some damage. Talk to a LOT of repairers. They will tell you the same thing. Very often very bad fuel and very often. Though unfortunatly not confined to just them. Talk to most repairers in the motorcycle industry as well. Which like hi performance cars are pushing the boundarys on 91 octane.. The same with LPG, some is good and some is crap.

9 times out of 10 I do not support the duopoly, the ACCC should have banned shopping vouchers decades ago and they now try to control the market. Both fuel and grocerys, and hardware. and retail booze, and pokie machines. And give junk in return.

#81 Peter Morley

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:00

Thanks for cheering me up.

DCN


Could be worth a chat with Simon Taylor's mechanic (the one who travels with him, I forget his name), when we went to Dundrod a couple of years ago they had mis-fuelled the LR on the way and it was running fine when they arrived.


#82 Pat Clarke

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:42

As a we lad, maybe 6 or 7, sitting on my dad's knee, steering his dad's black Ford E04A Anglia, registration number NI 4252, up and down the long drive at Clonmannon estate near Wicklow, where my Granddad was the Steward.
You might notice, it was a memorable occasion to me!

After that, no idea ;-)

Pat

#83 Pat Clarke

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:12

Regarding misfuelling Common Rail diesel engines, unfortunately a very common occurrence.

The problem is the very high fuel pressures generated in the pump, up to 1,800bar. The pump relies on the lubricity of the fuel oil to prevent wear and brinelling.

Tiny metallic particles get carried to the fuel rail where they quickly clog the injectors, then get carried in the return circuit back to the tank, eventually getting caught in the filter. Inside the tank then glistens like metalflake paint and is almost impossible to clean.

So the entire fuel system must be replaced, the fuel pump at $1,500 or more, Injectors at more than $1,000 each, fuel lines for another grand, the fuel rail at another grand or so. And then the tank, fuel lines, filters etc. That is without taking into account any internal engine damage caused by detonation.

Several companies sell adaptors that prevent you putting the skinny ULP nozzle into the fat tank opening. It needs the bigger diesel nozzle to open a diaphragm to let the nozzle in, something the ULP nozzle won't do.

If you happen to misfuel a modern diesel, STOP! Do not drive it. Call the RAC/AA/NRMA/AA or whoever and have the matter attended to. I think the going charge in Australia to purge the system is about $250 plus parts like filters.

Pat

#84 kayemod

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:56

Regarding misfuelling Common Rail diesel engines, unfortunately a very common occurrence.

If you happen to misfuel a modern diesel, STOP! Do not drive it.


Absolutely right, but I'd go further, the most important thing is DON'T TURN THE IGNITION KEY! If you do that with any modern diesel, that starts the irrevocable sequence of major destruction that Pat describes very well.

Really sorry to hear of your problems Doug, you have our very deepest sympathy.


#85 E1pix

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:03

Wow Doug, that's terrible! Could happen to any of us.

Here in the States, and maybe there as well, the Diesel nozzles are much larger to prevent this happening to the bulk of cars — as they run on petrol. But I suspect the opposite happening is easy.

So sorry. :(

#86 elansprint72

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 22:19

Re the duff fuel debate, very relevant in this house starting last Tuesday. Although I cover a fair mileage, by happenstance I nearly always refuel - with diesel - in our local Sainsbury's, because it's cheap and I haven't found reason to doubt their quality. Mrs N and I took our grand-daughter back home 3 miles away, and I mentioned that the Land Rover's tank needed a refill. I was about to head off the S's when Mrs said "Why make the detour, why not fill up here" since we were just approaching a newly refurbished Shell station. So I filled up there instead. Bad idea.

I run a diesel Landie.

Slightly jet-lagged, operating on auto, I'd filled it with petrol.

Years of using S's pumps, with bright green hoses for petrol and black for diesel, had conditioned me not to notice that the freshly refurbed Shell station's hoses are ALL black...

Anyway - my balls-up.

Despite running fine for the 3 mile drive home, next day, after a cold night's soak, the Landie was reluctant to start, ran like a bag of bolts, and after 400 yards down our lane, died.

Landie distributor now has it to drain fuel, purge etc. It's their Service Bulletin instructions, etc, which contain the sting. Estimated recommended repair price is...wait for it...

£7,286.43.

Hmmmm - just let me think about that one.

DCN


After 3 miles 400 yards I would expect little, or no damage. Drain it, fill it, try it. What is to lose?
I am an engineer, not a car salesman, btw.  ;)


#87 seldo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:40

After 3 miles 400 yards I would expect little, or no damage. Drain it, fill it, try it. What is to lose?
I am an engineer, not a car salesman, btw. ;)

Agree, but time is of the essence

#88 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:43

Actually I agree, drain the tank, which may have to be removed though to do so. Change the filters and refuel and it should be ok. If you have a area to work it should cost you next to nothing. And if you have some weeds that need killing you will not totally waste the diesel/ petrol mix! Be carefull with flames though!!
IF it goes ok put a tank of fuel through it then change the filter again, ideally have a good look inside for any foreign bits.

#89 BMH Comic

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:29

Actually I agree, drain the tank, which may have to be removed though to do so. Change the filters and refuel and it should be ok. If you have a area to work it should cost you next to nothing. And if you have some weeds that need killing you will not totally waste the diesel/ petrol mix! Be carefull with flames though!!
IF it goes ok put a tank of fuel through it then change the filter again, ideally have a good look inside for any foreign bits.


Petrol, Diesel, Kero all come from the same place when it’s all said and done, some of the additives are quite different but that’s about it.

Diesel being much lower on the distillation tower has more lubricating qualities than say Kero or some of the high volatiles that come from the tower like xyelene and benzene.

To dose up petrol so it behaves as diesel would is an easy task, give it a litre or two of oil like you do in a two stroke and you near enough return petrol to diesel. It might have a few more volatiles in it but its net effect the same calorific value and wont knock or do anything silly if you speed up the combustion process by reducing the volatility.

If the aromatics and volatiles dont destroy the seals and the oil does its job you won’t cause any long term harm, get it out as quickly as you can though is always a safe bet.


#90 Catalina Park

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:25

I know how to fix the problem.
It only takes a Stanley knife and a cigarette lighter.

#91 275 GTB-4

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:33

Agree, but time is of the essence


Droll, Seldo, very droll :)

http://www.google.co...&...=102&ty=108

#92 maoricar

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:34

From past experience(s) when (customer) diesel cars have been fueled with petrol, the results have been dire, due, in the main, to the higher combustion temps and consequent mechanical damage to the head, piston crowns and the like.
Distance covered seemed almost irrelevant.
There was an exception in that the diesel used by VW in the late 70's-mid-80's Golf/Jetta, seemed to be more forgiving, but then it was not anything that could charitably be termed a 'performance diesel'
As mentioned by others, I would have the system drained, flushed, fuel filters and eng. oil changed, refilled with diesel and suck it and see
best of luck

#93 h4887

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:27

My first set of wheels, must have been about 1950. I don't think much steering was involved, in fact it looks as if I could have been on a collision course...

Posted Image

#94 kayemod

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 19:31

From past experience(s) when (customer) diesel cars have been fueled with petrol, the results have been dire...


Doug is in good company, which shows that almost anyone can make that mistake.

http://www.telegraph...reaks-down.html

This story confused me though, as I was fairly sure that the presidential limo was diesel powered, which must mean that someone filled it with petrol, the opposite of what this story says. Whichever it was, I bet the eventual cost comes to a bit more than £7,286.43.


#95 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 22:34

Doug is in good company, which shows that almost anyone can make that mistake.

http://www.telegraph...reaks-down.html

This story confused me though, as I was fairly sure that the presidential limo was diesel powered, which must mean that someone filled it with petrol, the opposite of what this story says. Whichever it was, I bet the eventual cost comes to a bit more than £7,286.43.

I am fairly sure the limo is Caddy powered, eg the original engine. Any GM diesel would be very noisy.
Reputedly self sealing tanks and the like though so it may be a very expensive repair.

#96 kayemod

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 23:14

I am fairly sure the limo is Caddy powered, eg the original engine. Any GM diesel would be very noisy.
Reputedly self sealing tanks and the like though so it may be a very expensive repair.


Nominally it is indeed a Cadillac, it carries Cadillac badges, but 'The Beast' has Chevrolet truck mechanicals, so surely that can only be diesel.


#97 arttidesco

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 23:56

Nominally it is indeed a Cadillac, it carries Cadillac badges, but 'The Beast' has Chevrolet truck mechanicals, so surely that can only be diesel.


Not sure which truck mechanicals "the Beast" runs but as I understand it all Siverado's built between 1999 and 2010 run on unleaded only :smoking:

#98 arttidesco

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 00:05

Actually according to this image the Presidents Caddy is indeed a diesel :blush:

#99 kayemod

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:18

Actually according to this image the Presidents Caddy is indeed a diesel :blush:


Yes, it's pure Chevrolet Kodiak truck under that tank-like body.


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#100 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:05

My first set of wheels, must have been about 1950. I don't think much steering was involved, in fact it looks as if I could have been on a collision course...

Posted Image


Priceless! I turned my head away...where's the Bandaid's :)