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Vettel Vs Webber - 2013 [merged]


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#1901 handel

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 23:09

It would be really interesting to know if the cars are equal in every way or if Webber's height makes a difference to the kers packaging.

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#1902 Watkins74

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 23:21

It would be really interesting to know if the cars are equal in every way or if Webber's height makes a difference to the kers packaging.

I have wondered about that myself.

#1903 LoudHoward

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 23:34

If it's not gearbox it's bloody KERS. Ridiculous RBR and it always hits at the worst bloody times!!!

Anyways, enough about Seb while he's been leading in the last two races, what happened to Mark yesterday?

#1904 DILLIGAF

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:56

It would be really interesting to know if the cars are equal in every way or if Webber's height makes a difference to the kers packaging.


It would be interesting to know if Mark & Seb's KERS units are exactly the same or placed in the exact same position of the car with ballast. Afterall Mark is roughly 4 inches taller & 15kg heavier than Seb.

#1905 Afterburner

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:06

I hope you don't believe in Karma.

It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

#1906 Eff One 2002

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:16

So congratulations to Sebastian :up:.


I'm sure your congrats means everything to him, in addition to your constant arse-kissing... :lol:

#1907 mymemoryfails

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:49

Well Vettel may have "won" the qualifying battle, but today shows how meaningless that concept is at RB , and by extension the same as "19-0" would be .

By definition , it cant be a sword fight if only one has a sword......more of a stabbing really

Yeah congratulations.

mymemoryfails

ps (I do concede Vettel has been the better qualifier, just don't gloat too loud please)

#1908 Ian G

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:50

It would be interesting to know if Mark & Seb's KERS units are exactly the same or placed in the exact same position of the car with ballast. Afterall Mark is roughly 4 inches taller & 15kg heavier than Seb.


Mark said last year,after that rumour went around about all of his KERS problems that didn't seem to effect Seb.,that they were positioned exactly the same in both cars,he repeated that yesterday in Hungary. One thing he has never confirmed or denied is that they are in different stages of development in each car,i guess we we will have to wait for his book.

#1909 v@sh

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:20

Mark said last year,after that rumour went around about all of his KERS problems that didn't seem to effect Seb.,that they were positioned exactly the same in both cars,he repeated that yesterday in Hungary. One thing he has never confirmed or denied is that they are in different stages of development in each car,i guess we we will have to wait for his book.


As mentioned, positioning and size remains the same. The only thing probably in Seb's favor is that he can use the extra ballast due to his weight to help him balance the car better whereas Webber doesn't have that luxury. I'm not reading into the qualifying battle this year as it seems Webber seems handicapped the majority of the time. China not enough fuel, Bahrain a consequence of his clash in China, KERs/gearbox issue this time around.

The thing is, Seb is driving so brilliant that he would probably still be beating Webber but the gaps wouldn't be as bad as it is. Makes you wonder whether the RB package next year will be as good if they keep having KERs issues with those new regulations requiring an increase in KERs power.

Edited by v@sh, 28 July 2013 - 05:21.


#1910 LoudHoward

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:22

I don't think the ballast really matters anymore, the balance of the car is mandated within a few percent and the minimum weight has been really jacked up since it was an issue.

#1911 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:04

I feel sorry for Webber.. all of this reminds me a little bit of the 2005 season of Fisichella in Renault.
.
I hope he will have a better luck in his new career. :)

With the only difference that in 2005, Alonso never had a DNF while comfortably leading a race, or had problems on the car while under attack, or...

#1912 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:08

The thing is, Seb is driving so brilliant that he would probably still be beating Webber but the gaps wouldn't be as bad as it is. Makes you wonder whether the RB package next year will be as good if they keep having KERs issues with those new regulations requiring an increase in KERs power.

RBR has been a synonymous with reliability issues (either leading to DNFs, or components failing) for quite a handful of years now. In 2010 the reliability of their car was very poor, and that almost costed them the title; in 2011 KERS issues during race day for bot drivers were the flavour of the flavour of the day; 2012 we had the gearbox+KERS problem that, again, costed them dearly in the championship battle; and this season we have had Vettel breaking down from the lead, constantly having KERS issues during the race, and a very similar story with Webber (except for the "breaking down from the lead" part).
I suspect that next year, even though they are going to have a powerful working KERS unit, they will continue to have their share of problems, just like it has been the case up until now.

#1913 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:36

IMHO this is highly unlikely, since there is a healthy competition between these two crews and it is extremely hard to imagine that not a single one among these mechanics would even utter a word of suspicion or make an allusion.


But it's not their place to question it is it?

#1914 bourbon

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:50

No - Vettel was penalised for falling behind the safety car on the lap prior to the restart - go watch the race again. Rocky also got on the radio the next race during the safety car and reminded Seb about the distance to the safety car.

Entirely irrelevant to what transpired yesterday. Wait till you find out about all the things that were never reported.


That happens on both sides of the garage though. We don't hear everything from either driver/crew.

#1915 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:59

RBR has been a synonymous with reliability issues (either leading to DNFs, or components failing) for quite a handful of years now. In 2010 the reliability of their car was very poor, and that almost costed them the title; in 2011 KERS issues during race day for bot drivers were the flavour of the flavour of the day; 2012 we had the gearbox+KERS problem that, again, costed them dearly in the championship battle; and this season we have had Vettel breaking down from the lead, constantly having KERS issues during the race, and a very similar story with Webber (except for the "breaking down from the lead" part).
I suspect that next year, even though they are going to have a powerful working KERS unit, they will continue to have their share of problems, just like it has been the case up until now.


I think the point is though that because of the greater importance of 'ERS' next year, to have a unit that is as (seemingly) unreliable as RBR's current unit next year will be too much of a hindrance to be truly competitive. As it stands the Red Bull is fast enough to at times 'get away' with not having KERS working... it hampers them no doubt, but they're not completely lost without it. Next year that probably won't be the case. ERS will be vital because of it's upgraded power and significance in the overall powertrain package. It'd be like if the capacitor stopped working on Toyota's Le Mans racer... that thing can produce nearly 300bhp of power, so to not have it working means all that weight is now in the car for nothing. The car is in effect 300bhp down and heavier. That is what the effect will be in F1 next year if you have a crappy ERS unit.

They cannot challenge for the 2014 title with an ERS unit that has the same effectiveness as their current one.

#1916 JaredS

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:22

In 2010 Mark had better reliability than Seb (Seb had 2 not-at-fault DNF's whilst Mark had none) yet Seb still won the WDC. It should be noted though that in 2010, KERS wasn't run so it might well be a plausible theory that Mark's car suffers these reliability issues far more than Seb because of some packaging constraint compromised by his height. I haven't gone to the trouble, but would be interesting to know if across the 3 yrs from 2011 to so far in 2013, if there is some sort of trend where KERS failures are higher in hotter temperatures. Certainly Hungary was scorching.

Another theory for Mark's car failures is simply that the best resources, the best people, the most time and effort is put into their stud horse - Seb. Maybe when they run the internal tests on units and see the numbers, though both may pass the minimum acceptance criteria, maybe the units that return the better figures are put on Seb's car? Maybe the top of the gun mechanics and engineers are provided to him? Maybe when they're really at a pinch for time to address something on both cars, they get everyone on Seb's car first and once that's addressed then remaining time is used for Mark's? Or a combination of all those etc.

Even if it was the second theory, I wouldn't blame Red Bull. If they have to give the absolute top stuff to one driver, I'd pick Seb every time. As I said in the beginning of my post, Seb won the title in 2010 despite having significantly worse reliability than Mark.

#1917 DILLIGAF

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:22

Mark said last year,after that rumour went around about all of his KERS problems that didn't seem to effect Seb.,that they were positioned exactly the same in both cars,he repeated that yesterday in Hungary. One thing he has never confirmed or denied is that they are in different stages of development in each car,i guess we we will have to wait for his book.


Cheers for that Ian. :up:

#1918 sopa

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:43

Massa has more car problems than Alonso.
Barrichello had more car problems than Schumacher.
Fisichella had more car problems than Alonso.

It is a normal thing that if everything can't be perfect, team will put focus on the better driver.

Sometimes it is the other way around.
Like Raikkonen had more car problems than Coulthard.
Hamilton had more car problems than Button.

Things are rarely equal, even in reliability.

#1919 sopa

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:46

It's a good job he's got rolling starts now...


Still manage to lose 5 positions into the first corner.:p

There is a famous Alesi rolling start video on youtube, where he passes everyone. Webber just goes the other way around.:p

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#1920 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:52

Still manage to lose 5 positions into the first corner.:p

There is a famous Alesi rolling start video on youtube, where he passes everyone. Webber just goes the other way around.:p


Yeah I've seen that Alesi one... we'll see how Webber does at Silverstone next April (because despite all the hoopla from Sky at the British Grand Prix bemoaning Webber's 'last race at Silverstone'... it's not)... I doubt he'll make the same 'mistake' Jean made in that Speedcar race.

#1921 sopa

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:53

By the way, a lot depends on your personality, attitude and from that comes so-called karma. If Webber was like Massa and was a nice and obedient team player, maybe he wouldn't have all those problems and team would actively help him to get over any kind of issues he might have. Like Massa was helped after a bad early 2012. But Webber is so headstrong, wants to be his own man that team isn't that bothered with him. "Ah let him have his own fight if he wants it so much".

Look at Button. Super team player and got even a better reliability and more points than Hamilton. But if your attitude is to fight against the whole world, then sorry you are indeed going to fight against the whole world and suffer.

Edited by sopa, 28 July 2013 - 07:54.


#1922 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:56

By the way, a lot depends on your personality, attitude and from that comes so-called karma. If Webber was like Massa and was a nice and obedient team player, maybe he wouldn't have all those problems and team would actively help him to get over any kind of issues he might have. Like Massa was helped after a bad early 2012. But Webber is so headstrong, wants to be his own man that team isn't that bothered with him. "Ah let him have his own fight if he wants it so much".

Look at Button. Super team player and got even a better reliability and more points than Hamilton.


I think the difference may be that unlike with Massa and Button there is the possibility that there are elements in Red Bull that actively seek to undermine Webber. It's not like Webber is some abrasive character who burns all his bridges... he's a popular driver and man throughout the paddock.

#1923 sopa

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:25

I think the difference may be that unlike with Massa and Button there is the possibility that there are elements in Red Bull that actively seek to undermine Webber. It's not like Webber is some abrasive character who burns all his bridges... he's a popular driver and man throughout the paddock.


Ugh. I don't know. One thing is being popular just as a mate, another thing is being close and working together all the time. These things are different. Arguably Williams and Webber didn't get on very well in late 2006 either.

Anyway, Webber can't have that bad relations, because he has stayed in Red Bull for very long already. Since 2007. But Webber had more car problems than Coulthard too. Conspiracy? Or just something about his work attitude. Or height and packaging.:p

Anyway. I am not going into it too much, because I can't prove anything. But after reading 2-3 pages of conspiracy shoutings, I can tell only one thing. If you REALLY believe it is a conspiracy after all those years since 2007, he DESERVES it for some reason. Think about that.

Edited by sopa, 28 July 2013 - 08:27.


#1924 Realyn

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:34

No - Vettel was penalised for falling behind the safety car on the lap prior to the restart - go watch the race again. Rocky also got on the radio the next race during the safety car and reminded Seb about the distance to the safety car.

Entirely irrelevant to what transpired yesterday. Wait till you find out about all the things that were never reported.

... which he was asked to do by the team. Go and check some articles on it.

#1925 Realyn

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:56

Why are you laughing about stuff you have no idea about? They tried to clump up Alonso and Webber. Vettel took it to far, bottled it and got the drive through because he made a mistake. However the whole situation occured because they tried to help Webber.

But then again, looking at your signature it's pointless to argue I guess.

Edited by Realyn, 28 July 2013 - 08:57.


#1926 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:59

Changing what 'numbers'???

You want me to say Vettel has technical faults? Why yes he does! Are they at such curious times as Webber's? No they're not!

In Vettel's case, it was much worse because it happened when he was leading races and in most cases, ended up in DNFs.

#1927 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:01

I am going to miss this thread next year.... :rotfl:

#1928 karne

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:01

Why are you laughing about stuff you have no idea about? They tried to clump up Alonso and Webber. Vettel took it to far, bottled it and got the drive through because he made a mistake. However the whole situation occured because they tried to help Webber.

But then again, looking at your signature it's pointless to argue I guess.


Why, oh why is it so hard for fans of precious little Vettel to admit that he MADE A MISTAKE? Vettel screwed up that race. The whole "to help Webber" thing was an excuse concocted by RBR to try and excuse Vettel's f*ck-up. Vettel's grade-A temper tantrum said it all - that he screwed up, Mark didn't, and then Mark beat him fair and square.

Although perhaps my favourite memory from 2010 is Vettel's whinging and b*tching and moaning about the chassis while he was being beaten by Webber. So they changed the chassis. Mark turned around and won another two races..in the chassis Vettel was crying about. :lol:

#1929 Realyn

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:02

Why, oh why is it so hard for fans of precious little Vettel to admit that he MADE A MISTAKE? Vettel screwed up that race. The whole "to help Webber" thing was an excuse concocted by RBR to try and excuse Vettel's f*ck-up. Vettel's grade-A temper tantrum said it all - that he screwed up, Mark didn't, and then Mark beat him fair and square.

Although perhaps my favourite memory from 2010 is Vettel's whinging and b*tching and moaning about the chassis while he was being beaten by Webber. So they changed the chassis. Mark turned around and won another two races..in the chassis Vettel was crying about. :lol:

Are you ****ing joking?

Vettel took it to far, bottled it and got the drive through because he made a mistake


Also I'm not a Vettel fan.

#1930 Realyn

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:06

.... on the lap before the restart .... :lol:

Yeah, right. Because the safety car in/out timing has been completly predictable in the last couple of years, right? I don't even know how often I'll have to quote

Vettel took it to far, bottled it and got the drive through because he made a mistake



#1931 DarthWillie

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:19

I think the difference may be that unlike with Massa and Button there is the possibility that there are elements in Red Bull that actively seek to undermine Webber. It's not like Webber is some abrasive character who burns all his bridges... he's a popular driver and man throughout the paddock.


Yeah, like using teamorders in favour of Webber during the Malaysia gp this year

I can't wait for the webber book to come out, first I'm going to compare the silverstone 2011 and Malaysia 2013 chapters. Just to understand what changed his attitude towards team orders. And then I hope the chapters 2012,2013 ( the years he voluntary resigned) and see if Webber is either stupid resigning or just a dramaqueen playing the media while pretending to be the straight talking Ausie

#1932 Realyn

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:21

He did it on the main straight!! :rotfl:

Yes, on the main straight of the restart. I honestly believe you are the one who should rewatch that race.

#1933 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:27

Yeah, like using teamorders in favour of Webber during the Malaysia gp this year

I can't wait for the webber book to come out, first I'm going to compare the silverstone 2011 and Malaysia 2013 chapters. Just to understand what changed his attitude towards team orders. And then I hope the chapters 2012,2013 ( the years he voluntary resigned) and see if Webber is either stupid resigning or just a dramaqueen playing the media while pretending to be the straight talking Ausie


Without wanting to crack open the Malaysia thing again... in that race an element within Red Bull DID undermine Webber, just in that case it was his teammate rather than any of the management staff (who could also be accused of not stamping their authority on the situation nearly as well as they should have, or even at all!).

And we all know the person I was initially referring to as the undermining element within the team as to Webber was Helmut Marko. Webber was initially chummy enough with Christian Horner to start a GP3 team with him, but that seems to have cooled off a lot in the last couple of years, whereas Marko seems to outright hate the guy (though considering his manlove for Vettel he might just hate anyone who isn't Seb). I personally don't think Webber trusts the upper management at Red Bull as far as he could throw them... why else would he always head straight to Mateschitz to deal with contracts, issues etc.?

I can't wait for a Webber book either... I bet that Marko, Horner et al aren't too excited though.

Edited by DanardiF1, 28 July 2013 - 09:28.


#1934 KateLM

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:41

Yes, on the main straight of the restart. I honestly believe you are the one who should rewatch that race.

Actually, I think Supersleeper is right on this one. He did it on the main straight the lap before the restart as well. That was what the replays showed when he was given the drive-through.

There are plenty of things that may or may not have happened which may or may not be revealed when Webber leaves Red Bull. But we won't know until then, and speculating/bickering over it now is a bit pointless on both sides IMO.

#1935 LoudHoward

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:26

Marks tell all book that blows the lid off the conspiracy will hopefully have a section dedicated to why he kept signing with the devil team. My guess? He stayed in the team so someone else didn't have to suffer the great pain that he has.



:wave:

#1936 DILLIGAF

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 13:50

Yes, on the main straight of the restart. I honestly believe you are the one who should rewatch that race.


No, you should watch it again. It was the lap prior.

#1937 DILLIGAF

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 13:54

Another great recovery drive from Webbo today. Seb not his usual brilliant but bags another solid 15 pts.

Side note: The last few laps of this race really make me want to see Kimi up against Seb at RBR next year. Fantastic driving by Kimi on much older tyres than Seb. :up:

Edited by DILLIGAF, 28 July 2013 - 13:54.


#1938 Sin

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:23

Good race by Webber, except for the one time Hamilton passed him, I guess he was sleeping there for a moment, but that understandable with that heat...

Seb well his race was plagued with problems... he was stuck behind Button too long, that cost him time. And he had to slow his car alot, cause it was seemingly getting too hot and that seemed to be the reason why he was stuck behind Button so long to begin with.
Glad he made it to the podium :)... and good that he said something about his last radio message. Great to see things between Kimi and him are still fine...

Edited by Sin, 28 July 2013 - 14:24.


#1939 plumtree

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:26

As for Seb's race with the benefit of hindsight one more lap in the first stint could have made a huge difference. He was opening up the gap consistently to Button (L7 17.6 / L8 18.7 / L9 19.3 / L10 19.9). Yeah, he was under pressure from Grosjean (though I think 0.7 was manageable threat for one or two laps) and would've lost a bit more to Hamilton by doing so. But considering the fact that they learned from Hamilton that a pit stop cost 21+ seconds, his first pit stop was the quickest among 54 today, yet it wasn't good enough the strategy had to be a too optimistic move. Their poor straight line speed didn't help his cause but that's nothing new. Then the slowest pit stop of his three today put him again just behind Button. There went another 3-4 seconds. I'm not blaming the crew by any means. 3.2s stop was still a very good one. I'm saying those little things just didn't go his way. I guess the damaged FW made him losing 3-5 tenths through S2 in the last stint which he gained in S1 with DRS. (Edit: A better explanation would be that the car couldn't handle the hot dirty air through those corners like Rocky warned him a few times.)

Edited by plumtree, 28 July 2013 - 14:40.


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#1940 karne

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:31

Another beast of a drive by Mark, a FANTASTIC START BY MARK WEBBER

But really, he shouldn't HAVE to keep doing this. It's a joke. And once again we see it in the race today - a totally screwed up strategy, slower pitstops, told to cool his engine, struggling with issues at different points. A typical day in the life of Mark Webber.

Vettel's "attempts" to get past both Button and Raikkonen were pretty pathetic. And then when Raikkonen blocks him, he has a meltdown on the radio. Ugh. Spoiled little brat. :rolleyes:


Oh, and Mark got the fastest lap of the race. :p

Edited by MightyMoose, 28 July 2013 - 22:34.
It's an obnoxious post anyway, but you went too far with this: (I thought I'd make that big so the haters can choke on it!).


#1941 DarthWillie

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:36

Why could Hamilton overtake Webber twice on the same spot????? Poor driving.

#1942 Sin

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:44

Another beast of a drive by Mark, a FANTASTIC START BY MARK WEBBER

But really, he shouldn't HAVE to keep doing this. It's a joke. And once again we see it in the race today - a totally screwed up strategy, slower pitstops, told to cool his engine, struggling with issues at different points. A typical day in the life of Mark Webber.

Vettel's "attempts" to get past both Button and Raikkonen were pretty pathetic. And then when Raikkonen blocks him, he has a meltdown on the radio. Ugh. Spoiled little brat. :rolleyes:


Oh, and Mark got the fastest lap of the race. :p


oh my god you are even a worse type of fangirl than I am.... one that always has to bash down his rival on every occasion no matter what

I wrote why Vettel had problems passing Button... and Mark did make a mistake too, I think they both did a good race...

and the complaint about Raik├Ânnen was in the heat of the moment, and they laughed about it after the race, Seb admitted it ... being open and honest about it

Edited by MightyMoose, 28 July 2013 - 22:35.
Removed: Unnecessary obnoxiousness by Karne - now deleted


#1943 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:45

Why could Hamilton overtake Webber twice on the same spot????? Poor driving.

It looked almost as if Webber let him through: the longer he kept Lewis behind, the bigger the advantage he could he given Sebastian...

#1944 apoka

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:50

As for Seb's race with the benefit of hindsight one more lap in the first stint could have made a huge difference. He was opening up the gap consistently to Button (L7 17.6 / L8 18.7 / L9 19.3 / L10 19.9). Yeah, he was under pressure from Grosjean (though I think 0.7 was manageable threat for one or two laps) and would've lost a bit more to Hamilton by doing so.

I really didn't understand the first pit stop. Sitting on my live timing, I was hoping for them not to pit him. First of all to possibly pass Button and secondly, because there was enough space behind Button. Getting him in front of Button or 5 seconds behind Button with clean air (and a later 2 stop strategy) is both fine. I'll have to check the exact lap times later though.


#1945 DarthWillie

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:51

It looked almost as if Webber let him through: the longer he kept Lewis behind, the bigger the advantage he could he given Sebastian...


I can't believe that, if that were true there is no reason to keep him till the end of the year. So I keep assuming poor driving

#1946 Sin

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 14:53

It looked almost as if Webber let him through: the longer he kept Lewis behind, the bigger the advantage he could he given Sebastian...


it looked like that but I doubt that was it... I think he was just sleeping a second cause of the immense heat shining on his helmet

#1947 sv401

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 15:25

Why could Hamilton overtake Webber twice on the same spot????? Poor driving.


Better tyres + much faster in the DRS zones (so he could easily get very close to Webber) + generally better pace of the car in S1. For the same reasons that Vettel struggled to overtake, Webber got passed easily. The Red Bull is not a great racing car (in terms of overtaking/defending), even if it has good pace in clean air.

Edited by sv401, 28 July 2013 - 15:30.


#1948 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 15:39

Better tyres + much faster in the DRS zones (so he could easily get very close to Webber) + generally better pace of the car in S1. For the same reasons that Vettel struggled to overtake, Webber got passed easily. The Red Bull is not a great racing car (in terms of overtaking/defending), even if it has good pace in clean air.


Webber made a massive mistake when he was overtaken after Lewis' pitstop.

#1949 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 15:59

I really didn't understand the first pit stop. Sitting on my live timing, I was hoping for them not to pit him. First of all to possibly pass Button and secondly, because there was enough space behind Button. Getting him in front of Button or 5 seconds behind Button with clean air (and a later 2 stop strategy) is both fine. I'll have to check the exact lap times later though.

This is one of the very few times where RBR team strategists dropped the ball. Fortunately, it just cost Vettel 1 place. He was not going to challenge Hamilton for the win anyway and got lucky with Grosjean drive through penalty. He could have finished 4th instead of 3rd, so we should count our blessing. :D

#1950 plumtree

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 16:02

I really didn't understand the first pit stop. Sitting on my live timing, I was hoping for them not to pit him. First of all to possibly pass Button and secondly, because there was enough space behind Button. Getting him in front of Button or 5 seconds behind Button with clean air (and a later 2 stop strategy) is both fine. I'll have to check the exact lap times later though.

I certainly expected better lap times in clean air, when Hamilton came in fairly early.

L02 1:28.009
L03 1:27.816
L04 1:27.771
L05 1:28.060
L06 1:27.903
L07 1:28.025
L08 1:27.918
L09 1:28.243 (Hamilton in at the end of the lap)
L10 1:28.528
L11 1.1 tenths slower (S1:+0.4 + S2:+0.7!!) than in the previous lap

I didn't notice he lost so much time in his in-lap.

Button's L11 S1:+0.2, S2:-0.2 to Vettel's

Assuming a 3-stopper was the primary strategy and they believed a 2-stopper would put them in a too risky situation at the end, it appears that there was no way to come out ahead of Button.


About the 2nd stop, the gap to Button was 22.5s (L33) prior to the in-lap which would have worked just fine. Then he lost 0.4 in S1 + 1.0 in S2 = 1.4s to JB in just two sectors! :eek: The gap after L32 was 24.1s. So here it was a case of being one lap too late... One could say if a 3-stopper on three medium sets was the plan they could've reacted to Hamilton a bit earlier who came in lap 31. On the other hand, they probably didn't expect such a big drop off to be fair. Now things look more reasonable. :-p

I'll post his lap times before the 2nd pitstop later.

Edited by plumtree, 28 July 2013 - 16:06.