17 replies to this topic

[LaurensDeJong]

Someone posted this on the Ringers Yahoo! Group and I believe it's Count Carel Godin de Beaufort's Porsche 718, crashed at Bergwerk in 1964 that was ultimately fatal. I'm not 100% sure, though, but if I'm not, someone here surely will point that out to me.



If it is, then what's the lettering ("AN AM") supposed to say?

-Laurens de Jong.

[Marcor]

When he crashed fatally during the practice of the 1964 German GP, Carel Godin de Beaufort drove his own Porsche 718 and its number was 29. So conclude by yourself...

Don't know what AN AM could mean !!

[LaurensDeJong]

Well, I'm less than eager to see pictures of his crash, so what I'm trying to convince myself of is that this isn't Bergwerk, or maybe not 1964, and it's someone else's Porsche #29 crashed somewhere else in the world.

Probably classic denial.

-Laurens de Jong.

[FLB]

Originally posted by Marcor


Don't know what AN AM could mean !!

If you look closer at the picture, "AN AM" aren't the only letters. The marking begins before "AN", but is masked.

Does someone have a picture of de Beaufort's Porsche prior to his crash?

[sat]

an am is for Pan Am(erican Airways) - was Beaufort`s sponsor.

[Marco94]

sat,

Why would Pan Am be written as *an Am.? Note the period. And why would it not be in coorperate style?

Marco.

[Boniver]

Laurens,

where you fond this foto / site ?

[tombe]

The legend on the side of de Beaufort's car in 64 read "ECURIE PAN AM." or sometimes "ECURIE PAN AMERICAN".
I know his team's name was "ECURIE MAARSBERGEN", so I guess this was in exchange for some cheap air rates (?).

Tom Berge

[Mike Argetsinger]

Tom - The relationship with PanAm went beyond cheap air fares. Carel imported to Europe new and used cars from America. He really loved American performance cars. My brother remembers looking out the window one day that same summer to see a red Mustang, then a blue one, then a white one, and finally another red one - pull through the driveway. Mustangs had just been introduced and sightings on the road were still quite rare. We had a special high performance version - that had been prepped at KarCraft - which we used as the pace car for the U.S. Grand Prix. Carel was stopping off for a visit on his drive between Detroit and the Port of New York. We all remember Carel as a warm, witty and gracious man.

I'm afraid I don't see the point in posting the photo of his crashed car. It seems out of place on this forum - but that's just my opinion. Does someone seriously believe that posting that photo advances our knowledge of racing history? Because it certainly is in poor taste. Surely we aren't serious in pretending to identify whether it was his car? What other car are we pretending it may have been?

Let's celebrate drivers for their achievements and spirit. We mourn their passing but surely we should remember them as human beings rather than objects of morbid speculation or fascination.

[David McKinney]

I couldn't have put those last comments better myself, Mike. Thanks for saying what I am sure most TNF regulars thought, but perhaps lacked the courage to say

[fines]

Mike, as much as I understand and value your view, I for one think that death is part of life and accidents are part of motorsport. I can't say that I don't feel uneasy looking at pics like this, but at the same time I always wanted to see pictures or preferable footage of accidents when they happened, if only to satisfy my curiousity about what exactly happened. I am aware that there are those who want to see accidents for sensation's sake, but I feel they are a small minority in a place like TNF. Anyway, let's not pretend we live in a perfect world, unfortunately accidents and fatalities are part and parcel of what we love, and there's no use trying to ignore that fact!

[Boniver]

I fond no other Porsche who have drive in the F1 or F2
with the #29

only de Beaufort in Spa (6°) and 1964 German GP,

I have a foto when the Porsche back in Maarsberger en Hollande
the car is no less or more indent,




the place Bergwerk ........I think Yes

de Beaufort .......... I think Yes

see

http://www.motorraci...p64/64ger29.htm


foto of de Beaufort with Porsche in 1964 German GP

[LaurensDeJong]

Mike, David,

The post wasn't intended to advance your knowledge, it was (as I thought I made clear), meant to advance mine. It was a shock for me to see that picture and I was willing to accept any excuse for believing it wasn't what I thought it was, but not at the price of ignorance. Having said that, I apologize for misunderstanding the purpose of the forum and will in the future refrain from asking questions that would be interesting anything to myself, as opposed to the forum.

Boniver,

I don't know if you're familiar with the Yahoo! Groups. I'm in a group that talks about nothing but Nurburgring all day, but not all of it is Nostalgia. You'll have to get a Yahoo! ID to register. It's at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ringers

if you're still interested. Also thanks for the link, that picture of Carel in Karussell is the only I had of him at the 1964 GP and would have liked to keep it that way.

Again, apologies to all of you here.

-Laurens de Jong.

[Mike Argetsinger]

Laurens, I hope you will not - as you said - stop posting when you want to learn something interesting to yourself. That was not the point of my post. We all have much to learn from one another and I look forward to both your questions and the new information you will bring to the table. My reaction was purely personal and perhaps somewhat emotional. That doesn't mean it's the general view of the forum or its members. Your participation is valued. We won't always agree but we will learn from one another.

[HistoryFan]

I have a question about the Porsche cars De Beaufort was racing in F1 races. Did he and his team Ecurie Maarsbergen change anything on the car or was he just buying and racing it?

[doc knutsen]

I have a question about the Porsche cars De Beaufort was racing in F1 races. Did he and his team Ecurie Maarsbergen change anything on the car or was he just buying and racing it?

Afraid i have no information about the tech specs of the Maarsbergen  Porsche, but I do have some vivid memories of watching him race. At the Kanonloppet in Karlskoga, Sweden, in 1963,  there was a simple grandstand at the exit of the quick corner leading onto the main straight. My father had taken myself and my younger brother to the race.

In qualifying, de Beaufort proceeded to spin the orange Porsche directly in front of us, coming to a halt before hitting the flimsy fence that separated the track from the lower tiers of the grandstand. My Dad said something like "phew, that was close..." but then, the very next lap, the Dutchman spun again, at the very same place! After that, we hastily moved up to the top of the grandstand, lest there should be a third spin...

 

Next August, we were at the Nurburgring for that fateful day. de Beaufort drove the Porsche from the Fahrerlager up to the pits, wearing  a blonde Beatles-style wig on his helmet. A few minutes later, he was gone.

Sad memories.

[Roger Clark]

I would be very surprised if de Beaufort's tiny team had the resources to do any development. Porsche did some development of the engine but de Beaufort's greatest contribution was when he improved the power to weight ratio by dieting.

[Rob G]

I would think that the first modification he would have done to the car itself would have been to enlarge the footbox area enough to allow him to wear shoes.