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Vergne vs Ricciardo 2013 [merged]


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#1 Ravenak

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:08

Here, we can gauge both STR drivers.

Continuation of their 2012 battle. JEV this time looks to be in front both in quali and the race.

He showed amazing pace on one lap, on the dry, but especially on a wet track.

Daniel had a problem in the end, but to that point he was dominated by his teammate.

Next round, Malaysia.

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#2 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:10

I am nit one to often use hyperbole bur If Ricciardo gets bitchslapped like this over the whole season his career is done

#3 np93

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:27

Ricciardo did have a broken exhaust, and we don't know how much this affected his race pace, but Vergne was clearly better in the wet portions of the weekend, and by some margin at times

#4 v@sh

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:29

I am nit one to often use hyperbole bur If Ricciardo gets bitchslapped like this over the whole season his career is done


Easily Vergne this weekend. Both qualifying and race. Given how DR was racing at the end of last season, I expected him to continue getting the better of Vergne early on.

I think the wet brings out the best in Vergne and as the saying goes, if you're quick in the wet, it's usually the sign of a fast driver. Didn't help DR coming out before the race and saying he needed to smash Vergne - which he does - but that put the mocker on himself when you lose out to your team-mate. DR's starts are as bad as Webber, must be an Aussie thing. Starting on the back foot screws you up for the rest of the race since he was stuck behind all the back markers for a while.

#5 Ravenak

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:29

Qualifying was a missed opportunity for him yet again, but such is life.

He's now 12th in the WDC.

#6 danstheman

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 14:02

Dan had a bad weekend for some reason but he mentioned he struggled perhaps with setting the car up correctly. Which is strange because I remember Tost saying during pre-season that one of his best qualities is his technical knowledge and providing detailed feedback.

But I think put it down to the first race and getting it wrong with the setup or driving style required with these tires. And I think yet again he seems too tentative early in the race, which is frustrating.

I have no doubt he'll bounce back next weekend but first round to Vergne.

#7 danstheman

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:48

According to Dan's twitter the reason he started so badly and took a while to get up to speed was tyre warmer problems. So it seems he only had the installation lap to get them up to temp and obviously not enough. Can't believe the team didn't see this whilst on the grid?!

He also had an exhaust problem that led to his retirement, hard to see how much it affected performance.

I'd imagine he's pumped to make amends this weekend :up:

#8 krapmeister

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:45

Quite an impressive weekend from Vergne :up: - Dan had his moments but despite the tyre warmer/exhaust issues, certainly one to forget really. I hope he doesn't have the same home GP affliction that Webber has...

#9 nomi

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:41

Neither have shown outstanding potential, i think Dan is a better qualifier and Eric is the better racer over 50 laps.
Top teams want both 1 lap and race speed.

#10 packapoo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:17

Dan's bad weekend started about the time he set about crucifying his team mate.
Hope he's paused since to wipe his chin and concentrate on the main event.

#11 lbennie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:29

Q
1-0 to JEV

R
1-0 to JEV




#12 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:52

Marko's capricious approach to STR leaves me to think that we'll see a driver change there by mid season if one driver is overly dominant. Da Costa is waiting in the wings and it's not likely that Marko will allow any driver to spend overly long at the team before weilding the knife.

#13 krapmeister

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:06

Dan's bad weekend started about the time he set about crucifying his team mate.
Hope he's paused since to wipe his chin and concentrate on the main event.


Where did he 'set about crucifying his team mate'? :confused:

Edited by krapmeister, 19 March 2013 - 10:06.


#14 Yhamm

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:53

After a difficult first stint, the race came to him and he was on for a point or two when he got over-excited and flat-spotted his tyres attacking Button.

Many times, I saw autosport saying that Vergne tried to overtake Button and block his tires. This is wrong and here is what really happened (sorry for the low quality, had to film the TV)



#15 goldenboy

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 00:42

Firstly, Dan never said he wanted to smash vergne I believe, it was autosports title, he actually said he wants to "smash it" or something, never said vergne.

As for the wkend, even taking into account dan's problems I think vergne had him covered, although I think dan got him in a few Pracs? But when it counted vergne was on it.

I don't believe it will be like this the whole year though. I actually think neither are going to outshine the other as per STR's status quo.

Edited by goldenboy, 20 March 2013 - 00:43.


#16 Boxerevo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:12

This year is crucial for them.



#17 Viryfan

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:38

Firstly, Dan never said he wanted to smash vergne I believe, it was autosports title, he actually said he wants to "smash it" or something, never said vergne.

As for the wkend, even taking into account dan's problems I think vergne had him covered, although I think dan got him in a few Pracs? But when it counted vergne was on it.

I don't believe it will be like this the whole year though. I actually think neither are going to outshine the other as per STR's status quo.


"If myself and Jean-Eric are matching each other this year, it is probably not going to be enough," Ricciardo told selected media including AUTOSPORT at the event in the city.

"I definitely want to try and blow it apart if I can - do something special..."


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105960

#18 krapmeister

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:01

So he knows that to try and secure that potentialy vacant 2nd seat at RBR in 2014 he can't just match Vergne - he needs to beat him and comprehensively. But being the young and enthusiastic guy that he is he uses the phrase 'blow it apart', or in another article he was quoted as saying he needed to 'smash his team mate' to get the RBR seat. Perhaps not the most pc way of saying it but certainly not 'crucifying' his team mate nor disrespecting him - if he came out and said that Vergne was rubbish and he's going to blow him off the track or something then that'd be way out of line and duly setting himself up for a fall.

Having said that, I have heard/read numerous times how Dan needs to be a bit more 'aggressive' if he wants to succeed in F1 - perhaps this is a bit of a reaction to that criticism?

We'll see how the season pans out - one of them does need to 'smash' the other one if they want to please Marko though. Having another close season between the 2 won't do either of them any good really...



#19 DILLIGAF

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:47

Dan's bad weekend started about the time he set about crucifying his team mate.
Hope he's paused since to wipe his chin and concentrate on the main event.


No he didn't. :rolleyes:


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#20 goingthedistance

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:59

Dan had a very troubled weekend. Tyre blanket failure at the start of the race, and of course the exhaust problem that forced his retirement.

To say he was dominated by Vergne all weekend is a bit much. He outpaced Vergne in the dry on Friday afternoon and Saturday morning. In the wet quali session he was only a tenth or two off Vergne (so in P3) on the full wet tyre, but never got to set a lap on the inters like Vergne did due to traffic. In the Sunday morning quali session, Vergne did outpace Ricciardo on the inters but only by two tenths. Vergne seems to excel on the intermediate tyre in particular, I have noticed.

In the race once Daniel was off the first lot of incorrectly warmed tyres he had good pace and was regularly in front of Vergne. I think but for the exhaust failure they would have finished very close on track.

Overall yes you'd have to give the weekend to Vergne, but I don't believe he dominated Ricciardo. What we saw was a continuation of last year - in wet conditions Vergne is a nose in front of Ricciardo.

Edited by goingthedistance, 21 March 2013 - 10:01.


#21 BillBald

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 14:24

In the race once Daniel was off the first lot of incorrectly warmed tyres he had good pace and was regularly in front of Vergne. I think but for the exhaust failure they would have finished very close on track.


He took options on lap 30, so clearly would have had to stop again. He was a pitstop behind.




#22 GhostR

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 16:37

He took options on lap 30, so clearly would have had to stop again. He was a pitstop behind.

True, but by then he was also dealing with a dodgy exhaust. Doubt he would have beaten Vergne, but he probably would have been much closer than a full pit stop behind because having a fresh set of the better tyre to run to the end for a shorter stint than Vergne should have seen Ricciardo able to close the gap down (in theory).

Still, I'd give the weekend as a whole to Vergne. He took control once it turned wet. I'm not concerned that it's a sign for the season as a whole though - Ricciardo started well on the Friday before apparently going down a wrong route on setup and then having the race day issues.

Hoping for a dry weekend this weekend, and a trouble free run for both drivers.

#23 goingthedistance

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:25

I think when Dan retired he was pit-stop corrected about 8 seconds behind JEV, but he'd been making reasonable ground on him after the first stint on the dodgy tyres. I still think JEV likely would have beat him, but it was hard to tell.

As decent as JEV's weekend was too, it's a shame he didn't get P10. Not sure exactly what happened to lose those places back to Grosjean and Perez. Did anyone see it?

#24 danstheman

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:37

As decent as JEV's weekend was too, it's a shame he didn't get P10. Not sure exactly what happened to lose those places back to Grosjean and Perez. Did anyone see it?


Yeah check post #14 above

He overtook Grosjean into Turn 1 and flat spotted his tyres, but held his place into T3. But then touched the grass on the entry to a few corners later and went into the gravel trap so lost places to Grosjean and Perez.

Edited by danstheman, 21 March 2013 - 17:39.


#25 goingthedistance

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:49

Yeah check post #14 above

He overtook Grosjean into Turn 1 and flat spotted his tyres, but held his place into T3. But then touched the grass on the entry to a few corners later and went into the gravel trap so lost places to Grosjean and Perez.


Right thanks. Very clear on the video. A shame. The car had good race pace, will be interesting to see if that carries over to a more aero-dependent track this weekend.

#26 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 13:30

Fair outpacing from Daniel over JEV, although the latter says he lost 4 to 6 tenths because of a Marussia and could therefore have been up there with Dan.

Let's see what they both can do tomorrow. If it's dry, JEV has one more set of new tyres available.

Edited by Ravenak, 23 March 2013 - 13:31.


#27 Petroltorque

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:38

Fair outpacing from Daniel over JEV, although the latter says he lost 4 to 6 tenths because of a Marussia and could therefore have been up there with Dan.

Let's see what they both can do tomorrow. If it's dry, JEV has one more set of new tyres available.

Vergne having an extra set is not an advantage. This guy is ragged. On track he looks like he's always one corner away from a shunt. This is a tyre conservation formula in part.

#28 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:48

Being one corner from a shunt but never shunting, I think that's what you ask from a Formula 1 driver.

#29 goldenboy

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:00

Vergne having an extra set is not an advantage. This guy is ragged. On track he looks like he's always one corner away from a shunt. This is a tyre conservation formula in part.

It's well known Dan has a smoother style and vergne more agressive but to be honest it doesn't seem like either one does better with tyre durability than the other despite this for some reason.

#30 icecream

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:30

good work by vergne getting a point after the dismal pitstop.

what was with dan? seemed to have no pace. car problems, or setup issues?

#31 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:32

Vergne looks to be finally settling in and living up to his potential from junior Formula's. Ricciardo looks to be in trouble with Felix da Costa breathing in his neck.

#32 danstheman

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 14:05

A frustrating start to the year by Dan. Again, not sure if car issues were the cause of his slow pace. But he seemed pretty quick in the opening stint, even with the change to dry tyres. But then he had terrible pace for the rest of the race. Even JEV was lapping faster on old tyres when he changed to new ones!

Must be setup issues or car problem, he did retire after all with exhaust issues again and apparently damaged floor. Or perhaps he's finding it hard to come to grips with the Pirelli's in race conditions??

#33 Ravenak

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 14:08

If Dan's failure (exhaust I believe?) was not his fault, then it was just bad luck, no blame on him for a difficult start of the season. If he damaged the car on his outlap though, it's a pretty basic mistake which is always avoidable.

On JEV's side, it was a good race considering where he started and what happened to him, he sould be happy. I'm scared though, that Red Bull might not be impressed enough with his results as a potential replacement for Mark Webber.

Edited by Ravenak, 24 March 2013 - 14:11.


#34 icecream

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:02

great work by ric today. hopefully he can get off the line well and mix it up with the big boys.

Edited by icecream, 13 April 2013 - 11:02.


#35 krapmeister

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:11

Yes great job today :) - although I am a bit surprised to not see him start on the primes. Hopefully he won't lose out too much on that tyre strategy, and also not have a first lap like Bahrain last year...

#36 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:48

I think it's only a matter of time before Antonio Felix Da Costa starts getting FP1 sessions at STR. One of the present incumbents is going to lose his race seat. Personally I would retain Ricciardo as he's got the better technical nous.

#37 olliek88

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:56

I think, based on what i've seen (ie, in no way factual!) RIC is the faster of the two. Also i don't think either of them will be pulled out for Da Costa mid season, it would be rather illogical, but then there's Helmut Marko logic...

#38 Ravenak

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:16

JEV had an unidentified problem on his car, hence the huge gap to Dan.

Both cars need to be in the points tomorrow!

#39 DILLIGAF

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:24

JEV had an unidentified problem on his car, hence the huge gap to Dan.

Both cars need to be in the points tomorrow!


The car seems pretty good here. I hope you're right about them getting amongst the points. :up:

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#40 wattoroos

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 13:19

JEV had an unidentified problem on his car, hence the huge gap to Dan.

Both cars need to be in the points tomorrow!


Hopefully it isnt exhaust related which got Ricciardo in the first two races, but yeah, hopefully a solid race for both which can continue into the future

#41 Meanbeakin

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:50

Awesome result for Dan, hoping he doesn't lose it post race.

#42 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:52

Well done Ricciardo, great driving in qualifying and he maintained that in the race as well.

#43 williams96

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:54

Glad Ricciardo finished the race. Didn't see what happened to lose part of the front wing, would have been interesting to see as that lap was rather manic!



#44 olliek88

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:00

Great race from Dan, ahead of several faster cars, top job!

#45 DILLIGAF

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:12

Great drive from Dan today. 6 well deserved points. :up:

#46 LukeM

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:22

great drive, hopefully he gets to keep the points.

#47 William Hunt

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:37

does anyone know how much time Vergne lost with his Webber crash?

#48 fisssssi

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:43

Great result for Ricciardo! Hopefully the beginning of the end of the "Vergne is better in the races" myth.

#49 v@sh

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:44

Wonder if Ricciardo would have finished ahead of Massa if it weren't for his front wing change?

#50 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:47

Great result for Ricciardo! Hopefully the beginning of the end of the "Vergne is better in the races" myth.

Not really, because he is.