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Vergne vs Ricciardo 2013 [merged]


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#551 Thomas99

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:54

Well, ah yeah. That was shocking. Dan wins, I guess. 



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#552 olliek88

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 20:11

That was really some lap by Dan to get into Q3 - consistently 2/3 tenths down on his team mate pretty much all weekend and then pulled out a lap 5 tenths faster than Vergne. JEV must've been shaking his head in disbelief.

 

I really think he could trouble Seb in qualifying at least next year - probably not every race but there will be a few where he does. Can't wait to see how he goes.

 

I'm sticking a £10 on Dan for pole in Melbourne! How awesome would that be! Although highly unlikely of course!



#553 icecream

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 13:32

vergne was looking like he had the upper hand today, but again ric pulled a rabbit out of the hat at the last minute.  and just missed out on q3, but possibly a good thing as he would have burnt tyres for little gain. 



#554 Thomas99

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 05:32

Decent race by both Ricciardo and Vergne. They started close, finished close but are both limited by the car.

 

They kind of reflected the Webber and Vettel race, they both ran very different races but ended within a few seconds at the end.


Edited by Thomas99, 18 November 2013 - 05:33.


#555 krapmeister

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:29

Didn't see the Vergne/Gutierrez incident - did he deserve the penalty?

Looking forward to seeing how Dan goes next year next to Seb, as well as how Kvyat fares alongside Vergne...

#556 stobiesaur

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:53

Yeah Vergne definitely deserved a penalty for the incident,it was some pretty sloppy racing by both of them but Vergne squeezed Gutierrez pretty badly



#557 goingthedistance

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:18

Another point for Dan in his last STR outing. Great race actually, even though people will look at P10 and not be that impressed. The STR has been a dog in the final third of the season, Tost has openly admitted their focus shifted to the STR9 some time back. Dan finished almost 30 seconds up the road from JEV, somehow making the two-stopper work in a car that was chewing its tyres as badly as ever. Can't wait to see what he does next year. 



#558 Sardukar

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:24

I think this Ricciardo kid might just have some talent.



#559 marcoferrari

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:45

Another point for Dan in his last STR outing. Great race actually, even though people will look at P10 and not be that impressed. The STR has been a dog in the final third of the season, Tost has openly admitted their focus shifted to the STR9 some time back. Dan finished almost 30 seconds up the road from JEV, somehow making the two-stopper work in a car that was chewing its tyres as badly as ever. Can't wait to see what he does next year. 

You definitely can't qualify a dog car inside the top 10. Ricciardo is a very solid qualifier, I never told anything else, but when it comes to races, he just can t shine as much as on Saturday... Btw. he finished the season only 14th with 20 points, so at exactly the same position as Alguersuari in 2011, but with less points. Tost's plans were to finish 6th in constructors this year, they finished 8th... So, what exactly has changed compared to 2011? Nothing... Vergne's second part of the season was a catastrophe, still he is the owner of a 6th place in race and has scored only one point less then Ricciardo during 2012-2013 (29:30) Duo Alg/Bue scored 31/33... Not really remarkable for Ric/Ver... They were both hyped almost as "new Vettels", but did they match the hype? Definitely not. That s why I am so strict to them. 


Edited by marcoferrari, 24 November 2013 - 18:47.


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#560 goingthedistance

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:54

You definitely can't qualify a dog car inside the top 10. Ricciardo is a very solid qualifier, I never told anything else, but when it comes to races, he just can t shine as much as on Saturday... Btw. he finished the season only 14th with 20 points, so at exactly the same position as Alguersuari in 2011, but with less points. Tost's plans were to finish 6th in constructors this year, they finished 8th... So, what exactly has changed compared to 2011? Nothing... Vergne's second part of the season was a catastrophe, still he is the owner of a 6th place in race and has scored only one point less then Ricciardo during 2012-2013 (29:30) Duo Alg/Bue scored 31/33... Not really remarkable for Ric/Ver... They were both hyped almost as "new Vettels", but did they match the hype? Definitely not. That s why I am so strict to them. 

 

JEV has a massive reputation as a brilliant racer, yet again Daniel has outraced him and all year Ricciardo has shown the raw pace to justify the seat IMO. You need to understand that the car versus the competition varies very much year to year and you cannot compare like that. Red Bull have the data, we do not. Alguersuari was hard done by, no doubt. I hope you will not continue your vendetta against Dan in the Red Bull 



#561 GhostR

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 19:11

So, what exactly has changed compared to 2011? Nothing...  

 

An awful lot actually. Not least of which is that all 11 teams have built brand new cars twice over. Are you really suggesting that the STR's of 2012 and 2013 were as good as the car of 2011 comparative to the rest of the grid when every other car on the grid has been through rebuilds and development, the tyres have changed, etc etc?

 

At some point you're going to have to get over your hate of these two drivers because the team chose them over your hero.



#562 Thomas99

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:57

The gap over the second half of the season is just insane. Ive always been a big dan fan but I watched Vergne come through the junior series and he was clearly very good. But for Ricciado to be this far ahead in pace every single race is the hallmark of a top notch driver. 



#563 Brother Fox

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 02:22

Blah blah blah  Alguersuari in 2011 blah blah blah Alg/Bue scored 31/33

 

Every single f*cking time

 

At some point you're going to have to get over your hate of these two drivers because the team chose them over your hero.

 

Nailed it.



#564 Thomas99

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 02:25

Mark Webber scored more points in 2013 then he did in 2008. Its kind of like cars have differing performances from year to year despite being the same team or something like that?



#565 Sardukar

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:39

Points comparisons, the last bastion of an f1 fan who doesn't really know anything about motorsport. Kind of sad to be so ignorant.



#566 Kelateboy

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:52

Mark Webber scored more points in 2013 then he did in 2008. Its kind of like cars have differing performances from year to year despite being the same team or something like that?

 

They have a different point system? A victory in 2008 was worth 10pts, whereas a victory this year is worth 25pts.  :)

 

Let's not compare RB4s and RB9s - they are world apart. RB4s can't even match STR3s and Vettel that year.



#567 bourbon

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:33

Well it was a good rivalry.  JEV was the man at the start of the season and Ricciardo finished it off. 

 

Looking forward to JEV + DK next season.  DK got me watching the lowers again and if he keeps that up, he'll grab a new fan.  Ricciardo + Sebastian should be a challenging matchup too.  Lots more to come from these two.


Edited by bourbon, 25 November 2013 - 06:33.


#568 Zava

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:59

They have a different point system? A victory in 2008 was worth 10pts, whereas a victory this year is worth 25pts.  :)

 

Let's not compare RB4s and RB9s - they are world apart. RB4s can't even match STR3s and Vettel that year.

that was the point,..



#569 DILLIGAF

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 20:28

I think this Ricciardo kid might just have some talent.


Yup. Hopefully he'll give Seb a run for his money in 2014.

#570 senna da silva

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 20:37

I really thought JEV would win this battle, so kudos to Dan for doing an outstanding job and deservedly earning the RBR seat. I hope he can push Seb next year.



#571 Thomas99

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:15

Well it was a good rivalry.  JEV was the man at the start of the season and Ricciardo finished it off. 

 

Looking forward to JEV + DK next season.  DK got me watching the lowers again and if he keeps that up, he'll grab a new fan.  Ricciardo + Sebastian should be a challenging matchup too.  Lots more to come from these two.

 

I wouldnt really say JEV was the man at the start of the season. JEV had two races in which he seemed superior, Monaco and Canada and following that he's been slower practically every race. 



#572 Earthling

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:54

Not to  judge the drivers speed in the 1st or the 2nd half by skill (I think its pretty far beyond that point that one of the 2 would suddenly become half a second faster regularly on pure skill), but ppl are forgetting that since the 2nd part of the year, and the tire compound changing, many drivers struggled compared to their team mates whom they were on par with or better than n terms of points scoring.

 

Just look at the almighty Lotus and how Grosjean suddenly started to outscore Kimi. Look at other examples as well.

Some drivers struggled a bit, and Im sure that this is definitely something that has to be considered too.

 

Anyways, great results for Daniel and too bad for Jean-Eric at the end.

Daniel adapted and was faster, which he was over a season anyways.



#573 v@sh

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:49

Not to  judge the drivers speed in the 1st or the 2nd half by skill (I think its pretty far beyond that point that one of the 2 would suddenly become half a second faster regularly on pure skill), but ppl are forgetting that since the 2nd part of the year, and the tire compound changing, many drivers struggled compared to their team mates whom they were on par with or better than n terms of points scoring.

 

Just look at the almighty Lotus and how Grosjean suddenly started to outscore Kimi. Look at other examples as well.

Some drivers struggled a bit, and Im sure that this is definitely something that has to be considered too.

 

The speed was still there in the first half for DR except for Monaco/Canada where JEV had the better weekends (IMO JEV was lucky to get into the points because of so many retirements @ Monaco but was brilliant in Canada). DR was still out-qualifying JEV and had his best result (along with Monza) in China. His Silverstone performance was still half a second faster quicker in qualifying before the tire construction change so I don't see there being a big relative change in terms of performance between DR/JEV in terms of pure speed as we saw with Grosjean/Kimi.

 

The thing was that DR was more consistent in the second half of the year and kept the car in potential points scoring finishes which wasn't the case in first half (he should have scored points in Korea but the car broke down and Japan but he got himself a penalty). IMO the tire changes affected the TR more than both drivers, much like what happened to FI/Sauber/Lotus and the car regressed back into the midfield to lower midfield.

 

Overall he is was still quicker than JEV in both qualifying and the race, 2012 and 2013 seasons. Which is why RB chose him, the second half of the season just consolidated that and he didn't drop away like Perez did when he signed for McLaren. Quite the opposite, I think DR will surprise fans next season. The only weakness I see in DR is probably his wet weather driving which probably isn't as good as it could be.


Edited by v@sh, 26 November 2013 - 08:49.


#574 GhostR

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:59

The only weakness I see in DR is probably his wet weather driving which probably isn't as good as it could be.

 

Agreed. But having said that, Brazil qually was hopefully a sign of progress in the right direction.