111 replies to this topic

[Lights]

We had button saying last years car was bad, when lewis was winning races in it and getting poles. Plus button had more than just one bad race, he had many bad quali's.

True. A good driver would have put the car on pole yesterday. He's had many bad qualifying sessions in the past so this weekend the same must have happened.

[Lights]

Hold your horses people: I just found conclusive proof on Wikipedia:

"Button believed that his inexperience showed as he struggled to help his team set-up a competitive car.[24] His lack of success combined with an extravagant lifestyle led some to dub him a "playboy"."[25][26]

It might be 12 years later, but the exact same thing applies. Button ruins good cars and he's a playboy too.

[trogggy]

The OP has a valid point, not saying he is right, but I see where he is coming from.

We had button saying last years car was bad, when lewis was winning races in it and getting poles. Plus button had more than just one bad race, he had many bad quali's.

Absolutely. A wdc who's won 3 of the last 4 races at a track (as well as scoring more points than any other driver in his team in the last 3 seasons, ahem) is 3 seconds off the pole, and his team-mate who's done 40GPs and scored podiums last year is even further behind.
Clearly the obvious conclusion is that 'The car isn't bad.'

I get it now.

[Lights]

Absolutely. A wdc who's won 3 of the last 4 races at a track (as well as scoring more points than any other driver in his team in the last 3 seasons, ahem) is 3 seconds off the pole, and his team-mate who's done 40GPs and scored podiums last year is even further behind.
Clearly the obvious conclusion is that 'The car isn't bad.'

I get it now.

You think you're smart with your sarcasm? I see what you're doing there, it's too obvious.

Canada 2012. All you need to remember. Canada 2012. It's the magic key to everything, and you as a blind fanboy fail to see it.

[Lights]

Welcome to 2007 Jenson! Now in different team, though.

It's no coincidence he single handily build the Honda RA107 as well.

[Force Ten]

This thread is comedy gold.

[undersquare]

Yes Hulkenberg's rich F1 experience would have set up the car perfect from the start. And won with it.

Disagree on the first part though. Button can't drive a car.

No need to take refuge in the wild misrepresentation. With an unstable car it would help them to have a driver who doesn't need to guide the car into a corner.

[Alx09]

Average car, average drivers, average result.

[Lights]

No need to take refuge in the wild misrepresentation. With an unstable car it would help them to have a driver who doesn't need to guide the car into a corner.

Sorry, that's where we disagree. I think there is a high need for that here.

[Lights]

Fantastic car, terrible drivers, average result.

Fixed*

[Mauseri]

I think the situation is interesting and a little funny. Perez who made 'an average sauber' fly and was touted as 'tyre master' by some, comes to a tratidional team and cannot do even the same with an expected top car. And Jenson finally got out of the shadow of Lewis, and the team is likely technically focusing in him and he gets nowhere. Okay, may had Perez under control for now.

In the end we will never know exactly the role of driver and car in the equation. If the situation continues, the value of the drivers and will turn down. And the cars as well. We can only guess the weight between the factors and will never know. But for sure there is always room for speculation that some cars are made look worse or better by the drivers than it is. It is possible that Hamilton would have driven today the car 1 sec per lap faster than either driver. Just like Grosjean was suddendly nowhere in comparison with Kimi in the race, even though last year he often enjoyed small short lived speed advantage.

That is what racing and F1 is and I enjoy it, as long as my favorites are not taking the rocks

I'm sure McLaren will improve the car or find ways to make it more suitable for the drivers. But in my rating I would find drivers who might be faster.

[MightyMoose]

As this thread clearly isn't being taken seriously and we have clear case of trolling on many levels I'm closing it.

I will edit this post to explain more.
MM

Here's the edit:

Having read the OP and knowing the original thread location of it, I can understand why it was split off. I can also see that it's very easy to read it as a dig against the drivers, and how it could easily be turned into a "drivers thread" which of course are not allowed here anymore. (If ever there was vindication of that decision, this provides a good case for us!)

The philosophy behind leaving it as a stand alone thread would be that's its not directly related to the car, the title is I think questionable as it provides an immediate negative spin on the expected direction of the thread.

The problem begins when a fundamental part of the reasoning is based around Canada 2012, we all know that was later related to direct issues outside JB's immediate control, it can be argued that McLaren performance variations at Spa & Korea were just as noteworthy (once you allocate blame for Canada you should be equally consistent), except of course that wouldn't aid the agenda concept being pushed.

For that reason alone I would have expected it to be argued (as it has by some) that the OP is flawed and clearly isn't going anywhere with that perception. Sadly that would have meant it would have soon dropped off our charts as a relevant topic. But of course it's like moths to a flame and several of you have taken an opportunity to put the boot in.

What topped it off for me is the blatant & totally unhelpful sarcasm from some Button fans who are just of guilty of baiting as anyone on this thread.

All in all, this was a tough topic, one that could go either way (though educated minds may have guessed the end result). As I said before it's symptomatic of why drivers threads were closed, and shows that in reality, many of you simply don't want to be mature enough to be trusted to conduct adult debate on touchy subjects.

The decision to close is mine, I've taken the time to explain why, if you want to discuss further, you're welcome to send me a PM.
Thanks
MM