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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04 - PART II


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#1 jrg19

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 15:26

As we head to Malaysia we start the next part of the W04 thread.

Part I: http://forums.autosp...w...280&st=4000

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#2 SR388

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 15:43

QUOTE (dans79 @ Mar 18 2013, 11:12)
I think it was a combination of the following.
1. compromised set up, as in they set the car up for the potential of wet running
2. tried to 2 stop so they where conservative with delta's
3. Conservative, because they had a lot of unknowns going into the race



Cool. Thanks. I think it really showed some balls for them to try a two stop strategy. After being one of the worst on tires last year, to come out and try a two stopper is really putting a lot of confidence in the new car.

Edited by SR388, 18 March 2013 - 15:43.


#3 gm914

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 15:45

Part 2 already!?
Fun Fact: It took until June 1st 2012 til we needed a Part 2 of the Merc W03 thread.
What changed I wonder?  ;)

#4 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 15:50

I agree he wouldn't've finished higher. Just think that the race could've been run better - the times were getting quicker on the super softs and they should've waited until they were losing pace, not gaining it, especially as they would've seen that the others were about to get stuck behind sutil.

I think Sutil holding the front-runners up like he did surprised a lot of people, including myself. Mercedes were likely thinking that they were going to get dropped more and more if they stayed on the supersofts. Those tires were bound to drop-off at any moment, too.

#5 SR388

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 15:54

Part 2 already!?
Fun Fact: It took until June 1st 2012 til we needed a Part 2 of the Merc W03 thread.
What changed I wonder? ;)


Blackberry coming in as a sponsor. IMO.

#6 Fonzey

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 15:59

Vanity Panel

#7 bauss

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:15

Part 2 already!?
Fun Fact: It took until June 1st 2012 til we needed a Part 2 of the Merc W03 thread.
What changed I wonder? ;)


Toto Wolff

As an ex-McLaren fan (Hamilton fan!) I would much prefer 3.5 second pitstops all season to 2.4second pitstops for 15 races and 9 second pitstops for the other 4...


hah...true.. the Merc pitstops seemed pedestrian to some of the uber fast ones McLaren tried last year... but as long as the pitstops remain reliable n consistent (and apparently they arent that slow either), then fine by me...

#8 Markn93

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:24

Toto Wolff

I was going to go with Aldo Costa myself.

#9 rhukkas

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:26

I was going to go with Aldo Costa myself.


I am going with Paddy Lowe obviously.

#10 JRizzle86

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:27

Roscoe? He is a little cutey.

Edited by JRizzle86, 18 March 2013 - 16:27.


#11 Markn93

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:28

Roscoe?

On second thoughts that's definitely it :up:

#12 Tauhid

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:31

I am optimistic that Mercedes will surprise many in Malaysia, I think they have great race pace in warmer temperatures. And with Lewis and Nico, they'll qualify high up on the field too. Really don't think Alonso/Kimi/Massa can topple both Mercedes drivers on qualifying. The fact that the tyres didn't degrade as bad as it did on the Ferrari and the Red Bull is also good news, Mercedes needs better strategies to compete with the top 3 teams with a car that is slower, but not too far behind. Lewis looks optimistic, so here is to hoping we'll see some podium celebrations from any or both the drivers.

#13 Mario5

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:38

I wonder why the Mercedes thread is so much longer already this year. Does anyone know why?

#14 senna da silva

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:46

I wonder why the Mercedes thread is so much longer already this year. Does anyone know why?


Niki Lauda.

#15 1Devil1

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:52

I am optimistic that Mercedes will surprise many in Malaysia, I think they have great race pace in warmer temperatures. And with Lewis and Nico, they'll qualify high up on the field too. Really don't think Alonso/Kimi/Massa can topple both Mercedes drivers on qualifying. The fact that the tyres didn't degrade as bad as it did on the Ferrari and the Red Bull is also good news, Mercedes needs better strategies to compete with the top 3 teams with a car that is slower, but not too far behind. Lewis looks optimistic, so here is to hoping we'll see some podium celebrations from any or both the drivers.



You know that all after one race, with a qualifying in the wet, we didn't see one race at a place like Malaysia and last year hot temperature have been the overkill for the team. In this thread many pointed out correctly that the better tire wear could be sign of a conservative strategy in the first stint or they couldn't go faster than the others but longer on the same set. In the end, and that's the only fact we know they were too slow, not because of the strategy, the didn't have the speed to compete with the best. I don't know why it should be different in Malaysia I assume after last year and this first race now and the race pace shown in the tests they will not come out at the top. But I would be happy, to see Rosberg in a good car for one time. This optimistic approach for myself goes too far. Let's wait and see

#16 Markn93

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:53

"Hopefully we have some bits that are coming that can help us make the next step closer to everybody else, and if we can utilise these tyres a bit better we can remain more in the race with the others."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106147

#17 ApexMouse

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 17:31

I would like to see them go for a three stop, flat out race like the ferraris and vettel did. See where they are really at on race pace.
Hamiltons start Onboard:

Edited by Buttoneer, 18 March 2013 - 19:23.


#18 MrPodium

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 17:51

You know that all after one race, with a qualifying in the wet, we didn't see one race at a place like Malaysia and last year hot temperature have been the overkill for the team. In this thread many pointed out correctly that the better tire wear could be sign of a conservative strategy in the first stint or they couldn't go faster than the others but longer on the same set. In the end, and that's the only fact we know they were too slow, not because of the strategy, the didn't have the speed to compete with the best. I don't know why it should be different in Malaysia I assume after last year and this first race now and the race pace shown in the tests they will not come out at the top. But I would be happy, to see Rosberg in a good car for one time. This optimistic approach for myself goes too far. Let's wait and see


No, the poster thinks, as in his opinion of what might happen in future races. Yet you claim to know Mercedes were too slow. RedBull didn't seem so fast yesterday, but I don't claim to know that they are or aren't. I'm of the opinion that it's far too early to tell, but a fifth place in errant conditions isn't the best indicator of the W04's potential or speed. Ten points isn't a bad start when all said and done, and hopefully Mercedes can improve their package, so whatever conditions they will be in the hunt for a decent point haul.

Having said all that, my expectations are no higher than fourth in the WCC, but as Raikkonen proved last year, you can do very well in the WDC by being a consistent point scorer.

Good luck to both Hamilton and Rosberg, and of course the W04.

#19 spacekid

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 18:22

This is not a troll post - I'll get that out of the way early as I've noticed that there is some sensitivity towards perceived criticism of Mercedes now that Hamilton is on board.

I've been watching Mercedes closely over the past few years, with eternal hope and some frustration.

I think it is too early in the season to make bold proclamations about the teams chances this year (of success or failure), but as things stand I would urge caution. The team have generally been about 4th in the pecking order - not as good as the 3 front runners, but ahead of the midfield pack, sometimes slipping back to race with the Saubers, FIs and even Williams' if they've got their collective acts together. Last year Lotus joined the elite, pushing Merc further down overall.

At the start of 2012 Mercedes had good one lap pace in testing, were decent in the wet, but looked fragile on longer runs. In Australia Schumi was able to qualify 4th about 0.4s off Hamilton's pole time, but unfortunately the car broke down. The car won in China, but failed to develop through the year and slid down the grid. Fast forward to 2013, the car had encouraging pace in testing but did I hear on the BBC that Merc were having problems with the rear tyres heating up by 20 degrees more than other teams? The performance in the wet was handy, and this year Lewis was able to qualify 3rd about 0.6s off the pole time and was able to finish 5th, while this time Nico broke down.

An improvement? Perhaps, perhaps not.

My feeling is that the Mercedes is still about the 4th best car - the McLaren has slipped down the order while I believe the Lotus will establish itself in the top 3 with Red Bull and Ferrari. Despite the new personel and their 2009 campaign I remain very... suspicious... of the Brackley teams ability to really produce a strong car (this one looks better than average, but not as good as the true front runners), develop it over a season (time will tell) and then properly operate 2 race cars over all the weekends of a season. Those glitches haven't gone away just yet, have they?

Mercedes may well have a stronger foundation and better technical team this year to break into that top 3 group. Or they might continue to look sloppy over the course of GP weekends and slip back to find themselves racing the Force Indias and the number 2 drivers of the top teams who find themselves in the pack instead of of running at the front.

My money is on the latter. I do wish the team well, but as yet I still don't think they will produce anything better than the 4th best car this year. There may be a couple of tracks where the Merc can spring a great result, but over the season I think we'll find them struggling to get the package to work. I predict this season will be better than 2012, but otherwise largely business as usual for the Brackley boys.

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#20 1Devil1

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 18:25

No, the poster thinks, as in his opinion of what might happen in future races. Yet you claim to know Mercedes were too slow. RedBull didn't seem so fast yesterday, but I don't claim to know that they are or aren't. I'm of the opinion that it's far too early to tell, but a fifth place in errant conditions isn't the best indicator of the W04's potential or speed. Ten points isn't a bad start when all said and done, and hopefully Mercedes can improve their package, so whatever conditions they will be in the hunt for a decent point haul.

Having said all that, my expectations are no higher than fourth in the WCC, but as Raikkonen proved last year, you can do very well in the WDC by being a consistent point scorer.

Good luck to both Hamilton and Rosberg, and of course the W04.


The users "thinks" that - I understood that concept very well. But his predictions of the future have no basis at all, just speculations , Mercedes was too slow yesterday, or how was it possible that both Rosberg and Hamilton have been the leader of a train in the first stint and Hamilton finished as 5th far behind the pace setters in the race, can't see how that is a fact that needs to be proven, it happened all ready. The last part of my post is a claim, of course it is, and about what I think about the future performance of the mercedes team but at least I try to connect my assumptions with some arguments (performance of last year, this race, conservative racing at the beginning, testing) I am open for any reasoning that Mercedes is fast also in the race, but to say "I believe they will be better in hotter conditions" is wild a speculation and an optimistic hope nothing more. All in all you are right, like I said, let's wait and see, nobody knows nows. And as fan I'll rather take a pessimistic approach than hitting the track at Malaysia and Mercedes is a tire eater like last year this would be huge disappointment

#21 Kingshark

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 18:34

What the hell? We're one race into the season, and you guys are already on your 2nd part? :lol:

Edited by Kingshark, 18 March 2013 - 18:35.


#22 dans79

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 18:54

At the start of 2012 Mercedes had good one lap pace in testing, were decent in the wet, but looked fragile on longer runs. In Australia Schumi was able to qualify 4th about 0.4s off Hamilton's pole time, but unfortunately the car broke down. The car won in China, but failed to develop through the year and slid down the grid.


The Merc was crap last year come race day, at every track that didn't place a premium on high mechanical grip.


Fast forward to 2013, the car had encouraging pace in testing but did I hear on the BBC that Merc were having problems with the rear tyres heating up by 20 degrees more than other teams?


where did you hear this rubbish?

#23 Markn93

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:39

What the hell? We're one race into the season, and you guys are already on your 2nd part? :lol:

The power of Roscoe.

#24 BernieEc

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:39

just want to throw something in here that i'd been thinking about.

Everyone has been heaping praise on Aldo COsta and how he seems to design cars that are easy on the tyres. I think this "myth" (I call it that as am not sure its true or not) came about from his days with Ferrari. one thing I do remember well in the 2011 season was that Ferrari (F150) was easy on its tyres compared to the Redbull and McLaren but it was also noted that the harder the compound (especially the mediums and even more so the hard compound) the more difficult it was for Ferrari to switch on the tyres. A perfect example of this was at the 2011 Barcelona grand prix where Alonso took the lead from the start line and led the race till lap 20 till he was jumped in the pit by Hamilton and vetted. he still ran in the top 3 till about lap 40 or so and the minute he strapped on the harder compound, he got lapped by vettel and Hamilton who he had led for the first 20 laps.

Fast forward to 2013 and another aldo costa designed car that seems to be okay with its tyres but pace seemed to be lacking on the medium compound. Also considering the cool weather which might have made this a bit more difficult. Not trying to be an alarmist in linking the the 2 scenarios and it might just be a red herring.

As I said, I just wanted to throw it ion here if it makes sense

Edited by BernieEc, 18 March 2013 - 19:50.


#25 Markn93

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:42

Maybe, let's wait and see in warmer, more 'normal' conditions, though.

#26 Bartonz20let

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:53

58 laps down, the reality? We know nothing other than its probably in the top 4 somewhere.

Not saying we will have 7 from 7 but i think plenty have forgotten how unpredictable last season started, if we go off the one race Lotus are the best team? Really? I doubt it.

#27 revlec

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:54

I thought Mercedes had the wrong strategy(this is the area they have to improve the most IMO), and took the conservative route.
:)



#28 Requiem84

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 19:59

Does anyone have any input on the tire situation?

The mercs were able to stretch the use of the Super softs the longest of the top teams, but then struggled on the mediums. In '12 the Mercs were chewing through their tires because they overheated too quickly. If you get the Super Softs to work, but not the medium's, you'd have to think they didn't get the medium's up to temperature, right?

If that is the case, Mercedes could have a really strong car in Malaysia & Bahrein....

Thoughts?

#29 BernieEc

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:02

I know most keep saying we stretched out the length of super softs but in the first 1-8 Laps, at least to me, the merc sort of fell backwards to the front runners. So am not entirely convinced about this Supersoft myth and pace.

Edited by BernieEc, 18 March 2013 - 20:02.


#30 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:05

just want to throw something in here that i'd been thinking about.

Everyone has been heaping praise on Aldo COsta and how he seems to design cars that are easy on the tyres. I think this "myth" (I call it that as am not sure its true or not) came about from his days with Ferrari. one thing I do remember well in the 2011 season was that Ferrari (F150) was easy on its tyres compared to the Redbull and McLaren but it was also noted that the harder the compound (especially the mediums and even more so the hard compound) the more difficult it was for Ferrari to switch on the tyres. A perfect example of this was at the 2011 Barcelona grand prix where Alonso took the lead from the start line and led the race till lap 20 till he was jumped in the pit by Hamilton and vetted. he still ran in the top 3 till about lap 40 or so and the minute he strapped on the harder compound, he got lapped by vettel and Hamilton ho he had led for the first 20 laps.

Fast forward to 2013 and another aldo costa designed car that seems to be okay with its tyres but pace seemed to be lacking on the medium compound. Also considering the cool weather which might have made this a bit more difficult. Not trying to be an alarmist in linking the the 2 scenarios and it might just be a red herring.

As I said, I just wanted to throw it ion here if it makes sense


I honestly don't know how the tire wear thingy will pan out from here on, though I do think tire wear is not a negative factor anymore. But the biggest myths - if we are using that word - of all is that Costa designed the suspension the W04 is running. He has most possibly had input to make it work, but Mercedes has run that suspension in evolutionary forms for the past three years, developed by the ex-Renault engineer Tuluie. By that, I would not want to devalue Costa's input, I only say that finally making that suspension to work has no effect on its traits.

Scarbs: "If Mercedes has found a way to reliably tune this system other teams will need to re-engineer their simple front-to-rear interconnected systems"


#31 Timstr11

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:20

I honestly don't know how the tire wear thingy will pan out from here on, though I do think tire wear is not a negative factor anymore. But the biggest myths - if we are using that word - of all is that Costa designed the suspension the W04 is running. He has most possibly had input to make it work, but Mercedes has run that suspension in evolutionary forms for the past three years, developed by the ex-Renault engineer Tuluie. By that, I would not want to devalue Costa's input, I only say that finally making that suspension to work has no effect on its traits.

Scarbs: "If Mercedes has found a way to reliably tune this system other teams will need to re-engineer their simple front-to-rear interconnected systems"

When Brawn announced he hired Costa, he explicitly said that one of the reasons for hiring Costa was to design ''innovative suspensions''. Can't find the article but I remember reading that.
It's not only Costa. Remember Costa took Marco Fainello (Ferrari's former tyre specialist and head of Vehicle Dynamics) with him to Mercedes. Couple this with the guy from Renault (Robin Tuluie, now head of research at Merecedes) who had knowledge of interconected suspensions, they have surely gained new insights in suspension design.

#32 senna da silva

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:21

Maybe, let's wait and see in warmer, more 'normal' conditions, though.


This. :up:

#33 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:34

When Brawn announced he hired Costa, he explicitly said that one of the reasons for hiring Costa was to design ''innovative suspensions''. Can't find the article but I remember reading that.
It's not only Costa. Remember Costa took Marco Fainello (Ferrari's former tyre specialist and head of Vehicle Dynamics) with him to Mercedes. Couple this with the guy from Renault (Robin Tuluie, now head of research at Merecedes) who had knowledge of interconected suspensions, they have surely gained new insights in suspension design.


I am sure they did. I am saying that certain tire management attributes of past Costa designs do not relate to the W04. Not generally, to say the least.


#34 FernuttonHulkkonen

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:34

Things were pretty clear in this race, RBR, Ferrari and Lotus are on another level in race pace. What Kimi did was humiliating to W04! He started behind, easily overtook Lewis on track, as if there was nobody there, then vanished in front, pitted less due to a superb tire management, and was extremelly fast on old tires towards the end when Kimi made FL of the race just for the sake of it.

Hamilton finished 45s behind

All Mercedes fans can do is hope temperature, track suiting, miraculous setup will change what Melbourne showed. That's all highly unlikely, but won't stop fans from hoping, which in fact, shouldn't, as fans are entittled to always hope for and even be dellusional

For Sepang, I expect a good starting positions from W04(maybe a 3rd on the grid as last year with Schumacher) but on the race, the logical thing is to expect, at the very least, Webber and Grosjean to get their act together and finish way ahead of any Mercedes.

Sutil had mighty race pace in Aus, the graining of his SS that made Lewis finish ahead of him, otherwise.......

Sauber is likely to be even better than FI, so will be no surprise if Hulk can challenge the Mercedes on the race, either.

Obviously, fans are not even thinking about Sutil, Webber, Hulk or Grosjean. They are all thinking they will fight for the win.

It's wait and see for all of us

#35 JRizzle86

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:41

The power of Roscoe.


lol

#36 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:46

I know most keep saying we stretched out the length of super softs but in the first 1-8 Laps, at least to me, the merc sort of fell backwards to the front runners. So am not entirely convinced about this Supersoft myth and pace.


I don't think the pace was good. But the last 4-5 laps were in fact better than anyone could manage with those tires overall, and they had two flying qualy laps taken from their life-span before the start. The tires were not working 100%. Neither the SS, nor the mediums, obviously. I should ad IMHO. I do hope Sepang will be dry for a change, to get some answers.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 March 2013 - 20:47.


#37 dans79

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:52

I think the car seems pretty good. It will be interesting to see if they bring updates to Malaysia. Based on statements during testing, they weren't going to have any updates till China, so if they have updates for Malaysia, they would be ahead of schedule in my book. They might have additional updates for China with it being 3 weeks after Malaysia.

Edited by dans79, 18 March 2013 - 21:30.


#38 1Devil1

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 20:57

Things were pretty clear in this race, RBR, Ferrari and Lotus are on another level in race pace. What Kimi did was humiliating to W04! He started behind, easily overtook Lewis on track, as if there was nobody there, then vanished in front, pitted less due to a superb tire management, and was extremelly fast on old tires towards the end when Kimi made FL of the race just for the sake of it.

Hamilton finished 45s behind

All Mercedes fans can do is hope temperature, track suiting, miraculous setup will change what Melbourne showed. That's all highly unlikely, but won't stop fans from hoping, which in fact, shouldn't, as fans are entittled to always hope for and even be dellusional

For Sepang, I expect a good starting positions from W04(maybe a 3rd on the grid as last year with Schumacher) but on the race, the logical thing is to expect, at the very least, Webber and Grosjean to get their act together and finish way ahead of any Mercedes.

Sutil had mighty race pace in Aus, the graining of his SS that made Lewis finish ahead of him, otherwise.......

Sauber is likely to be even better than FI, so will be no surprise if Hulk can challenge the Mercedes on the race, either.

Obviously, fans are not even thinking about Sutil, Webber, Hulk or Grosjean. They are all thinking they will fight for the win.

It's wait and see for all of us


It's more about your tone, you try to be aggressive, you even admit that in your post. On some points I think your are right (pace is not so good, hopes of delusional magic changes from AUS to Sepang), but there is no need to rub your opinion in the face of the others - especially hardcore fans and your last part is quit funny because it seems you set in front of your keyboard and thought about it which driver in your opinion faster than mercedes you can add to heat up the the situation even more. Stay calm and try to argue :wave:

#39 TomNokoe

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 21:31

It seems that internally the team know something wasn't quiet right (I believe too conservative setup or slightly unoptimized) because HAM and ROS both immediately said Malaysia will be better. A podium would be very nice and hopefully we can dominate Sector 1 and 3 with the straight line speed that evaded us in Oz and Fric will do the rest!

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#40 Spoch

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 21:31

I am optimistic that Mercedes will surprise many in Malaysia, I think they have great race pace in warmer temperatures. And with Lewis and Nico, they'll qualify high up on the field too. Really don't think Alonso/Kimi/Massa can topple both Mercedes drivers on qualifying. The fact that the tyres didn't degrade as bad as it did on the Ferrari and the Red Bull is also good news, Mercedes needs better strategies to compete with the top 3 teams with a car that is slower, but not too far behind. Lewis looks optimistic, so here is to hoping we'll see some podium celebrations from any or both the drivers.

What makes u think think the other teams wont be faster as well?

#41 Asterion

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 22:23

Call me a crazy fan, but I am feeling confident regarding Malaysia.

#42 femi

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:03

just want to throw something in here that i'd been thinking about.

Everyone has been heaping praise on Aldo COsta and how he seems to design cars that are easy on the tyres. I think this "myth" (I call it that as am not sure its true or not) came about from his days with Ferrari. one thing I do remember well in the 2011 season was that Ferrari (F150) was easy on its tyres compared to the Redbull and McLaren but it was also noted that the harder the compound (especially the mediums and even more so the hard compound) the more difficult it was for Ferrari to switch on the tyres. A perfect example of this was at the 2011 Barcelona grand prix where Alonso took the lead from the start line and led the race till lap 20 till he was jumped in the pit by Hamilton and vetted. he still ran in the top 3 till about lap 40 or so and the minute he strapped on the harder compound, he got lapped by vettel and Hamilton who he had led for the first 20 laps.

Fast forward to 2013 and another aldo costa designed car that seems to be okay with its tyres but pace seemed to be lacking on the medium compound. Also considering the cool weather which might have made this a bit more difficult. Not trying to be an alarmist in linking the the 2 scenarios and it might just be a red herring.

As I said, I just wanted to throw it ion here if it makes sense


Somebody had made that point and I sincerely hope both of you are wrong, that would make me worry if Merc has that problem at the next race. I hope the FRIC would be of help and it if doesn't, maybe the guy that said Merc was good at barca only because they had 8 days to fine tune it to that circut but might find it difficult to do that within the 3 days of a race weekend might also have a point. I remember he didn't cure the f150 in a hurry so if he's done the same with the W04, we may be in for a long frustration. But I don't think that will be be the case this time around. This might be what the upgrade for Malaysia that LH talked about is to address and was confident it would work - hence his optimism.

#43 superdelphinus

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:19

Gary Anderson thinks the merc is the second fastest car (after rbr) since Australia? How does he work this stuff out?

Edited by superdelphinus, 19 March 2013 - 00:20.


#44 Masenco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:30

Gary Anderson thinks the merc is the second fastest car (after rbr) since Australia? How does he work this stuff out?


He might well be right after malaysia.

#45 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:35

Gary Anderson thinks the merc is the second fastest car (after rbr) since Australia? How does he work this stuff out?

Ultimate one lap pace, he'd probably be right.

In the race, they were clear 4th best.

That can change quickly, though. For better or worse.

#46 Seano

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 00:56

You can read too much in to it, too early chaps.

Oz was very cool, people didn't understand the tyres and probably still don't (me included).

RBR can probably set the fastest quali at most places but it won't carry over to the Sunday - I think Newey's genius downforce can be too much for the cheeses to do a meaningful 1st stint and quali glory alone, scores nil point.

I don't think that Kimi's Oz tactic will work most places, but Fred should go well this weekend. I think the Silver Arrows should be a little more conventional on their choices and gain experience.

Chase reliability and pit discipline rather than be clever for now Mr Brawn.

Seano

#47 moorsey

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:58

Ultimate one lap pace, he'd probably be right.

In the race, they were clear 4th best.

That can change quickly, though. For better or worse.


Iree Sean but IF Lewis was driving to a preset delta to try the "2 stop experiment" that might account for the gap to the leaders. Perhaps one of the lessons that they learned was that they COULD have given it some beans from the off and kept pace witrh the front runners and made the 3 stops to cover them.

It might be wishful thinking on my part but I got the impression that Lewis didn't appear to be pushing the car to its limits.

#48 Dalin80

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:46

While we will never know for sure iam confident that if merc had started on a dedicated 3 stop strategy Hamilton would have finished very close to the vettel or massa, he simply wouldn't have been able to overtake them though as the merc was easy bait in the DRS zone thanks to a disappointingly low top speed that they carried. in situations where tyre management is key it will be very hard to compete with the lotus due to the massive perks of the renault engine.

As for the opening pace I suspect the slow first lap was due to being overly gentle with the soft tyre, I have read comments from some that suggest overly pushing on cold underinfalted tyres in the first half lap adds the equivalent to 2 laps of wear as the tyre is so far away from its operating zone. We have yet to see a true example of comparative pace yet and for the few laps where hamilton pushed in oz the mercs seemed capable of a good time.

So he finished 45s behind.

Let's assume that the strategy switch cost around 10s, the mercs low top speed (damp set-up?) maybe around a tenth or two a lap as they were losing about 7 kmh down the straight, so that's a few seconds by the end of the race. So all being well it would have been around 30s behind, between vettel and massa and less then 0.5 off the race winners pace.

The car has pace, whether it gets better or worse in warmer climates to come is anyone's guess but to me it seemed like merc had trouble getting the medium tyre to work in the cold so iam hoping that hotter tracks will see that .5s drop to something around .25, after that merc need to show that they can keep up in the development race as I expect we haven't seen the last of mclaren and the Ferrari and Reb Bull wont wait for us.

#49 f1fastestlap

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:29

Ross Brawn, Mercedes team principal

“We had a very good opening stint of the race, making the supersoft tyre last until lap 13 for Lewis and lap 14 for Nico. That convinced us that a two-stop strategy was feasible this afternoon. However, the balance on the medium tyre was not what we needed. Having committed to two stops, and adjusted our pace accordingly to preserve the tyres, the decision to convert to a three-stop strategy compromised Lewis relative to those cars who had gone for three from the start. The behaviour of the tyres is something we will have to think about and understand over the next days. Nico was running strongly when he was forced to retire. We saw a drop in voltage from the battery and that stopped the car. Overall, we have made a good step with the car and learned a lot this afternoon. If we can put the pieces of the puzzle together, we have the ingredients to race well.”

http://www.formula1....13/3/14363.html


I really hate this kind of "racing"...

#50 Bartonz20let

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:53

@f1fastestlap, it's starting to really bother me now too, accepted it at first but I getting sick of hearing words like preservation and delta every 2 mins.