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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04 - PART II


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#51 bonjon1979a

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:36

Lewis thinks they're not far behind red bull

http://www.guardian....ercedes-mclaren

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#52 Markn93

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:53

@f1fastestlap, it's starting to really bother me now too, accepted it at first but I getting sick of hearing words like preservation and delta every 2 mins.

It appears Lauda agrees with you - http://www.f1today.n..._medium=twitter

#53 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:25

It appears Lauda agrees with you - http://www.f1today.n..._medium=twitter


That's interesting on more than one level.


#54 SmokeScreen

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:38

It appears Lauda agrees with you - http://www.f1today.n..._medium=twitter


Leaving aside the technical argument this is where Lauda’s ”PeopleSkills” are most useful- external and to "TheMercEnemy" ;).

#55 slmk

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:38

Will be interesting to see if the Mercedes is lacking any downforce... their form in S2 will be interesting to see.

#56 TomNokoe

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:10

Will be interesting to see if the Mercedes is lacking any downforce... their form in S2 will be interesting to see.

There are a few slow-ish corners too and traction zones. :up:

#57 jjcale

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:07

Leaving aside the technical argument this is where Lauda’s ”PeopleSkills” are most useful- external and to "TheMercEnemy" ;).



As Pres Lyndon B. Johnson said about FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover: It's probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.

Edit:

BTW SmokeScreen - that is an epic quote you have in your sig.... One of the best F1 quotes we have had for a little while IMO.... very good catch!

http://www.mensjourn...erica-20130219:

Hamilton has always been fiercely competitive. Raised in a working-class part of England, obsessed with cars even as a toddler, he graduated to go-karts at age five when his dad bought a used one for 300 Pounds. He won his first six races. "I was blessed with the ability to understand how cars move," he explains. "You know how in 'The Matrix,' he can see the matrix? When I'm driving, I see the lines."


Edited by jjcale, 19 March 2013 - 13:20.


#58 Smitla321

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21822378

Just seen this on BBC website. In this interview Lewis confirms that the lock up while battling Fernando caused him to switch to the three stop. So he must have been driving to the two stop laptime delta up until this point.

This is really encouraging IMHO because it shows he was not trying to match the frontrunning pace until after that lock up. After which point he was just as fast if not faster than Massa and Vettel at least.

Lotus is still out of reach I fear, but hopefuly we can be in the mix with the bulls and the Ferrari's.

Can't wait for this weekend. :up:

#59 MP422

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:18

Can't wait for this weekend. :up:



Me too :clap:

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#60 Masenco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:31

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21822378

Just seen this on BBC website. In this interview Lewis confirms that the lock up while battling Fernando caused him to switch to the three stop. So he must have been driving to the two stop laptime delta up until this point.

This is really encouraging IMHO because it shows he was not trying to match the frontrunning pace until after that lock up. After which point he was just as fast if not faster than Massa and Vettel at least.

Lotus is still out of reach I fear, but hopefuly we can be in the mix with the bulls and the Ferrari's.

Can't wait for this weekend. :up:


If those were his delta lap times then I have no idea how mercedes expected him to keep the others behind him :S They should have changed him to a three stop and made his delta times faster as soon as they saw how quickly the others were catching up.

On his final stint he was on much newer tyres than vet and massa, so its not accurate to make a comparison imho- but I do think it's apparent that the final stint on mediums looked much faster than the ones before... could it be that because he was free to push on the final stint that the tyres didn't grain as much (which was apparently the main reason why the other stints on mediums were so slow)?



#61 windtravels

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:28

https://www.youtube....;v=FzOdmKYpIeU#!

Pit stop training.

#62 Markn93

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:31

^ Running DRD. Stop at 1:07 to see it. That's their 'filming day' isn't it?

#63 MercPower

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:42

At least Nico can get out of the car faster than Lewis, with a bit of time delay on the stop watch :p



#64 Markn93

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:52

At least Nico can get out of the car faster than Lewis, with a bit of time delay on the stop watch :p


:lol: Made me laugh. Nice to see an example of them looking like genuinely good friends too, always heard about it but not seen it up till now :up:

#65 Masenco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:58

http://translate.goo...ved=0CEQQ7gEwAw

"However, Brawn was not completely satisfied because they ran out of "find the balance" right for the car. "In the race we were unable to maintain good initial positions of Hamilton and Rosberg," he added."

#66 race addicted

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:01

I wonder, when Hamilton defended from Alonso, wasn't it strange how he locked the outside front? Perhaps what we saw was the passive-active suspension? Or a glitch in that system? Or is it just that there's a narrow trace in the track there, slightly lower, which that front ran in? Am I making myself understood with that last question? :)

#67 MercPower

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:06

I wonder, when Hamilton defended from Alonso, wasn't it strange how he locked the outside front? Perhaps what we saw was the passive-active suspension? Or a glitch in that system? Or is it just that there's a narrow trace in the track there, slightly lower, which that front ran in? Am I making myself understood with that last question? :)



Yep, it was the suspension that caused him to lock up, This was discussed on Sky.

#68 mlsnoopy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:08

At least Nico can get out of the car faster than Lewis, with a bit of time delay on the stop watch :p


Double airbox.

#69 jrg19

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:10

Double airbox.


W03  ;)

#70 mlsnoopy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:20

W03 ;)


OK. I was thinking that Mercedes would run the passive DRS in Malaysia.

#71 jrg19

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:25

I don't know what tracks it would be useful at, I guess the long straights should make it useful?

#72 MercPower

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:31

I don't know what tracks it would be useful at, I guess the long straights should make it useful?


It should give some lap time around Sepang, not sure where they are with it though, could be tricky.

For those that don't know how this passive double DRS works there is a link here

http://www.formula1....013/0/1038.html

Edited by MercPower, 19 March 2013 - 16:33.


#73 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:46

If those were his delta lap times then I have no idea how mercedes expected him to keep the others behind him :S They should have changed him to a three stop and made his delta times faster as soon as they saw how quickly the others were catching up.

On his final stint he was on much newer tyres than vet and massa, so its not accurate to make a comparison imho- but I do think it's apparent that the final stint on mediums looked much faster than the ones before... could it be that because he was free to push on the final stint that the tyres didn't grain as much (which was apparently the main reason why the other stints on mediums were so slow)?


He had 4 laps on SV, 6 laps on FM, and 3 on FA. If you check the final stints, he was convincingly faster than SV, a tad bit less, but still faster than FM, and a little bit faster but at least matched FA. I don't like the strategy, but the fact they went for it shows some self confidence, certainly. But it is petty and very 'Sauber-ish', and the fact that one defense with a serious lock-up can ruin it does show how very vulnerable the Pirellis make any strategy nowadays.


#74 dans79

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 17:10

Yep, it was the suspension that caused him to lock up, This was discussed on Sky.


who said this on sky? I find that hard to believe, and more like to do with the fact that the tires weren't turned on, and that Hamilton started breaking over the white & black painted lines on the track.


#75 stanga

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 17:11

who said this on sky? I find that hard to believe, and more like to do with the fact that the tires weren't turned on, and that Hamilton started breaking over the white & black painted lines on the track.


Davidson took us through it on the skypad with multiple slow motion replays. It was very clear.

#76 dans79

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 17:20

Davidson took us through it on the skypad with multiple slow motion replays. It was very clear.


IMO he doesn't know what he is talking about, because the car wasn't turning when the lock up started.


#77 Masenco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:16

He had 4 laps on SV, 6 laps on FM, and 3 on FA. If you check the final stints, he was convincingly faster than SV, a tad bit less, but still faster than FM, and a little bit faster but at least matched FA. I don't like the strategy, but the fact they went for it shows some self confidence, certainly. But it is petty and very 'Sauber-ish', and the fact that one defense with a serious lock-up can ruin it does show how very vulnerable the Pirellis make any strategy nowadays.


The car definitely has pace in it, cant wait to see what its like in malaysia!


#78 F1Champion

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:28

If it rains both cars will be strong IMO.

#79 MercPower

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:28

Looks like i can't make any more contributions to this forum, so just wanted to wish everyone the best for the season, it's been good getting involved with everyone on here.

Have a good'n

:up:

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#80 Masenco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:32

Looks like i can't make any more contributions to this forum, so just wanted to wish everyone the best for the season, it's been good getting involved with everyone on here.

Have a good'n

:up:


Thank you for your contribution :wave:
btw love your sig man.


#81 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:49

Looks like i can't make any more contributions to this forum, so just wanted to wish everyone the best for the season, it's been good getting involved with everyone on here.

Have a good'n

:up:


Mclaren's oppressive regime strikes again! Thanks for your contribution, it's a shame you're no longer allowed to comment!

#82 Boxerevo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:54

What happened :confused:

#83 micktosin

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 20:01

Mclaren's oppressive regime strikes again! Thanks for your contribution, it's a shame you're no longer allowed to comment!

It's more likely to be Mercedes's regime if anything ;)

Edit; you are right.

Edited by micktosin, 19 March 2013 - 20:05.


#84 MeatPopsicle

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 20:15

A few people seem to be saying we were only off the pace due to attempting a two stopper and sticking to a delta..

Does someone have a graph comparing Hamiltons last stint (by which point he had switched to a 3 stopper and was flat out) with Alonso, Vettel and Raikonnen's last stint to confirm this?


#85 argiriano

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 20:43

Yep, it was the suspension that caused him to lock up, This was discussed on Sky.

And from what I remember Davidson pointed to the late braking point of Lewis and unfortunate coinsidence with a bump on the track which caused the lock-up.

#86 Asterion

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 20:51

Looks like i can't make any more contributions to this forum, so just wanted to wish everyone the best for the season, it's been good getting involved with everyone on here.

Have a good'n

:up:

You will be back soon. :p

#87 SmokeScreen

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 21:17

As Pres Lyndon B. Johnson said about FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover: It's probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.


That's one MercedesF1 chief gainfully employed :smoking: now to sort out the other/s :cool:



BTW SmokeScreen - that is an epic quote you have in your sig.... One of the best F1 quotes we have had for a little while IMO.... very good catch!

Thank you kindly Sir. in some ways it is a shame that we no longer have driver specific threads,
but then considering what Lewis threads attract :drunk: probably for the best

#88 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 22:18

A few people seem to be saying we were only off the pace due to attempting a two stopper and sticking to a delta..

Does someone have a graph comparing Hamiltons last stint (by which point he had switched to a 3 stopper and was flat out) with Alonso, Vettel and Raikonnen's last stint to confirm this?


It depends on what you mean by being off the pace. Personally, I think sticking to a delta was only part of it. After aborting the A-plan, the pace was inferior to Lotus, on par with Ferrari, and faster than RB, but still slow at the first few laps of a stint, which would indicate problems in getting the tyres to work. I am NOT saying that the W04 is the fastest out there, but it seems to be quite solid. Sepang ambient and track temperatures will be completely different, the track is completely different, and Melbourne was never a good indicator of a car's real potential.

http://www.fia.com/c...ent-information


#89 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 22:46

https://www.youtube....;v=FzOdmKYpIeU#!

Pit stop training.

^ Running DRD. Stop at 1:07 to see it. That's their 'filming day' isn't it?


Couldn't this just be one of the Barcelona tests? They ran the DRD there too.

He had 4 laps on SV, 6 laps on FM, and 3 on FA. If you check the final stints, he was convincingly faster than SV, a tad bit less, but still faster than FM, and a little bit faster but at least matched FA. I don't like the strategy, but the fact they went for it shows some self confidence, certainly. But it is petty and very 'Sauber-ish', and the fact that one defense with a serious lock-up can ruin it does show how very vulnerable the Pirellis make any strategy nowadays.


Yep, these tires are a complete joke. It's interesting that Hamilton managed to match the other cars in the final stint, especially Alonso who was pushing flat out. Definitely a positive sign.

If it rains both cars will be strong IMO.


I hope so, but Hamilton hasn't looked good in the rain in a while now. Hungary 2011 was probably the last time I remember where he really looked very fast in the rain. Unless I'm missing something obvious but I don't think so.

#90 OoxLox

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:00

I hope so, but Hamilton hasn't looked good in the rain in a while now. Hungary 2011 was probably the last time I remember where he really looked very fast in the rain. Unless I'm missing something obvious but I don't think so.


A driver doesn't put in performances like Silverstone 2008, Fuji 2007 or Spa 2010 and then forget how to drive in the rain. Yes, the car and setup make a big difference on the day but if a driver has several superb (i.e. race-winning) wet weather performances on his CV then he's not going to lose that ability overnight. I saw the 2s lead Nico had over Lewis up until it counted in qually, so we're just going to have to wait for a few more wet/damp weekends before we figure out which of the two is the best.

Edited by OoxLox, 19 March 2013 - 23:01.


#91 Markn93

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:07

@bigchrome I'm fairly certain that's their filming day at Silverstone which was incredibly soggy.

#92 JonathanProc

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:07

Couldn't this just be one of the Barcelona tests? They ran the DRD there too.


This was at Silverstone I seem to recall.

#93 superdelphinus

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:56

Couldn't this just be one of the Barcelona tests? They ran the DRD there too.



Yep, these tires are a complete joke. It's interesting that Hamilton managed to match the other cars in the final stint, especially Alonso who was pushing flat out. Definitely a positive sign.



I hope so, but Hamilton hasn't looked good in the rain in a while now. Hungary 2011 was probably the last time I remember where he really looked very fast in the rain. Unless I'm missing something obvious but I don't think so.


Malaysia last year he was flying in the opening laps and was a good few seconds ahead of button before the whole race went completely mental

#94 Boxerevo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:41

Malaysia last year he was flying in the opening laps and was a good few seconds ahead of button before the whole race went completely mental

Dat pitstop.

Edited by Boxerevo, 20 March 2013 - 03:42.


#95 TomNokoe

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:19

Couldn't this just be one of the Barcelona tests? They ran the DRD there too.



Yep, these tires are a complete joke. It's interesting that Hamilton managed to match the other cars in the final stint, especially Alonso who was pushing flat out. Definitely a positive sign.



I hope so, but Hamilton hasn't looked good in the rain in a while now. Hungary 2011 was probably the last time I remember where he really looked very fast in the rain. Unless I'm missing something obvious but I don't think so.

Silverstone and Germany Q2 when the mp4-27 was balanced he thrashed everyone

#96 akshay380

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:30

Medium and Hard tires for the weekend. I have a faint feeling that W04 will manage the tires much better then earlier. Hoping Lewis and Nico can push it hard and have a strong finish.

#97 Markn93

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:53

http://img3.auto-mot...f19a-670702.jpg

http://img4.auto-mot...edbd-670714.jpg -New upgrade Lewis was talking about. This is to pick the drivers up from around the circuit when the car breaks down, much better than walking. And to think, people were questioning Mercedes' in-season development? :p

#98 undersquare

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:38

Silverstone and Germany Q2 when the mp4-27 was balanced he thrashed everyone


Thinking about Germany Q3 last year...Lewis' RE/strategist missed a trick not putting him on a fresh set of tyres right at the end. Now last weekend the same thing. All the more important with the SS to have had less wear for the start of the race.

So I hope Bonno/Jock Clear are going to live up to expectations. Same thing for Nico afaik?


#99 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:12

http://www.f1fanatic...1AUS_HZ4747.jpg

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#100 OoxLox

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:14

Having looked at all the analyses done by various people I think the W04 is about where the W01 was in 2010, behind the leading group and clear of the midfield pack. Maybe there'll be updates for Malaysia, and maybe things will pan out differently in the heat, but if the car's to actually win a race this year either we'll need favourable track characteristics and conditions, or to out-develop Ferrari, Lotus and RBR by a few tenths at least. It's a tall order...

I'm completely unqualified in punditry and statistical alchemy and I'm useless at guess-the-downforce-with-jedi-mind-tricks so I might be wrong.