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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04 - PART II


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#3401 KiloWatt

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 13:49

Renault was granted permission specifically to increase their power and was not done under a reliability guise. This is because FIA wanted to equalise engine performance. However as we all know pure bhp is only 1 parameter, and what Mercedes did not do is argue back to change improve their engine from an fuel efficiency perspective. This is why Renault engined cars can be packaged so much better because they got free power upgrades at a later point in the timeline which gave them enough time to increase performance for free efficiently without affecting other engine parameters significantly.

Merc got more power using more fuel.
Renault was low on power and used less fuel but gained the knowledge and FIA approval to increase power without affecting fuel efficiency. It wasn't fair really. Renault was artificially allowed to play catch up and Merc/Ferrari held back.


I do enjoy bringing this point up as often as possible when in conversation with RBR and Lotus fans. You just have to looooove seeing them squirm, but this OT ofcourse. And I've quit this habit lately as anything can happen in 2014 and then the boot may be on the other foot.

Still, it was fun while it lasted.

(Sorry for the - slightly dastardly - OT mods)

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#3402 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 14:18

You guys have no idea how fuel usage changed during these 'upgrades'. For anyone. Y'all are all just guessing.

#3403 dans79

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 16:49

You guys have no idea how fuel usage changed during these 'upgrades'. For anyone. Y'all are all just guessing.


Educated guesses!


#3404 Kvothe

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:48

You guys have no idea how fuel usage changed during these 'upgrades'. For anyone. Y'all are all just guessing.


Noted

#3405 Rybo

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:05

You guys have no idea how fuel usage changed during these 'upgrades'. For anyone. Y'all are all just guessing.


Mainly because when they were able to do their upgrades refueling was still allowed, but it's widely know that Renault powered cars can start 15-20 kgs lighter on fuel than the Merc and Ferrari cars.

#3406 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:35

Have Merc chances this weekend for win the race? How is now tyre deg? :confused:

Good luck guys !

#3407 TomNokoe

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:40

Have Merc chances this weekend for win the race? How is now tyre deg? :confused:

Good luck guys !

Doesn't look like its going to be very warm, which is a plus

#3408 Lamag

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:25

This is a real test for the new package the team introduced at Monaco with the new gearbox casing, the new floor and new suspension geometry. There is many more upgrade aside those from Monaco and I think all of those new upgrades together will improve the tyre manage and the performance of the car.

Can Mercedes' boys win this race? I think so.

#3409 Juggles

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 21:39

This is a real test for the new package the team introduced at Monaco with the new gearbox casing, the new floor and new suspension geometry. There is many more upgrade aside those from Monaco and I think all of those new upgrades together will improve the tyre manage and the performance of the car.

Can Mercedes' boys win this race? I think so.


I really don't think they can if it's dry. They haven't had great race pace at any GP this year, and that includes Monaco (Malaysia is perhaps the most impressive they've been). There may be a few other opportunities for a race win this season but Silverstone is the wrong place to look in my opinion.

#3410 BigCHrome

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 22:01

Have Merc chances this weekend for win the race? How is now tyre deg? :confused:

Good luck guys !


I don't think they have a realistic chance to win though they will probably start on pole. I can see Rosberg finishing third.

#3411 undersquare

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 22:11

The upgrade would have to be amazing for Merc to win, but never say never. Really they probably need the Ferrari and Red Bull upgrades not to work very well, too. Has happened though...

#3412 MP422

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 22:17

This is a real test for the new package the team introduced at Monaco with the new gearbox casing, the new floor and new suspension geometry. There is many more upgrade aside those from Monaco and I think all of those new upgrades together will improve the tyre manage and the performance of the car.

Can Mercedes' boys win this race? I think so.



I hope so !! :clap:



#3413 Fangiola

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 22:18

The upgrade would have to be amazing for Merc to win, but never say never. Really they probably need the Ferrari and Red Bull upgrades not to work very well, too. Has happened though...

There's always hope of a DNF

#3414 bauss

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 22:23

I'm skeptical... the race pace gap from the last circuit similar to this one was HUUUGEE. Halfing it alone will be a great job....podium will be fantastic. A win, especially on merit...will be a thing of dreams. That will mean a major turnaround and actually suggest they can compete for top honors, which I dont see currently.

#3415 undersquare

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 22:50

I'm skeptical... the race pace gap from the last circuit similar to this one was HUUUGEE. Halfing it alone will be a great job....podium will be fantastic. A win, especially on merit...will be a thing of dreams. That will mean a major turnaround and actually suggest they can compete for top honors, which I dont see currently.

Yeah I see what you mean, but mostly it's one specific problem isn't it? So they might have found a solution. Like McLaren's 2009 outwash front wing, kinda thing. Well I'm a hopeless optimist lol.

#3416 BigCHrome

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 23:15

Yeah I see what you mean, but mostly it's one specific problem isn't it? So they might have found a solution. Like McLaren's 2009 outwash front wing, kinda thing. Well I'm a hopeless optimist lol.


It's definitely not like that.

#3417 KiloWatt

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:50

Yeah I see what you mean, but mostly it's one specific problem isn't it? So they might have found a solution. Like McLaren's 2009 outwash front wing, kinda thing. Well I'm a hopeless optimist lol.


A little OT here, but Is that what did the trick for them? And a double diffuser presumably... Thats interesting to learn... It has always been a pet hate of mine when people ascribe the brawn champioship to the DDD and Ive always championed the idea that the outwash front wing deserves at least as much credit. This information, if true, confirms my suspisions.

Anyway back to this team and this weekend, considering the hiding that the team received in spain, I think 2 cars in the top 5 will be like a win for the team. And realistically its the most we can hope for. Personally, I wont be dissapointed with one car in the top 5 and the other merely in the top 10. Dont particularly care about driver order though.

#3418 undersquare

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:49

A little OT here, but Is that what did the trick for them? And a double diffuser presumably... Thats interesting to learn... It has always been a pet hate of mine when people ascribe the brawn champioship to the DDD and Ive always championed the idea that the outwash front wing deserves at least as much credit. This information, if true, confirms my suspisions.

Anyway back to this team and this weekend, considering the hiding that the team received in spain, I think 2 cars in the top 5 will be like a win for the team. And realistically its the most we can hope for. Personally, I wont be dissapointed with one car in the top 5 and the other merely in the top 10. Dont particularly care about driver order though.

Well the trick was to get rid of the inwash front wing. That transformed the car. We just need a similar lighbulb moment to stop the mystery ongoing tyre overheating, then the car is fast as qualy shows.

#3419 molpid

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:04

observed on F1technical forum - end of RW-endplates are bending to the outside

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#3420 KiloWatt

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:46

We just need a similar lighbulb moment to stop the mystery ongoing tyre overheating, then the car is fast as qualy shows.


We'll if there is one... It might not be the lightbulb, but the wiring. And that's an entire different kettle of fish... You get the idea...

#3421 molpid

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:19

NEW FW aswell [bottom one]
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#3422 jrg19

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:23

Yeah, top element spilt.

#3423 Fangiola

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:15

courtesy of F1 technical

Nico Rosberg just confirmed in a live interview that they have a new floor on the car ...



#3424 Grundle

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:32

Nice to see Paddy Lowe on the pitwall. :up:

#3425 SamH123

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 14:15

quite solid long run pace :up:
But Sunday will be much warmer...

Edited by SamH123, 28 June 2013 - 14:18.


#3426 Xeriks

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 16:36

I thought the car looked good, and that the tyre deg had improved, but according to Rosberg he think's they've taken a backwards step.

I hope it was a setup issue only and not that the upgrades didn't actually work as expected.

#3427 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 16:43

What does every one make of Hamiltons comments in his latest BBC column?

He stated that this is the first car since 2008 that he feels he can compete with, or something like that. I find it hard to believe that the merc is comaparatively more competitive than any mclaren he's had round here from 09-12. Thoughts?

#3428 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 16:45

What does every one make of Hamiltons comments in his latest BBC column?

He stated that this is the first car since 2008 that he feels he can compete with, or something like that. I find it hard to believe that the merc is comaparatively more competitive than any mclaren he's had round here from 09-12. Thoughts?


He is talking little bit too much...last year he had the best car of the whole grid, mercedes at the moment is not.


Hamilton reprimanded for not keeping to the right of the bollard when entering pits in FP2 #f1

Edited by Vesuvius, 28 June 2013 - 16:45.


#3429 TomNokoe

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 18:03

I thought the car looked good, and that the tyre deg had improved, but according to Rosberg he think's they've taken a backwards step.

I hope it was a setup issue only and not that the upgrades didn't actually work as expected.

Hamilton was slower on one lap but good on the long runs, vice versa for Rosberg. Strange.

#3430 bonjon1979a

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 18:18

He is talking little bit too much...last year he had the best car of the whole grid, mercedes at the moment is not.


Hamilton reprimanded for not keeping to the right of the bollard when entering pits in FP2 #f1

He's talking specifically about silverstone, last year they were lacking pace at this track. I seem to remember that other teams brought upgrades, macs was delayed till germany

British gp since 2008
2009 - horror show
2010 - red bull dominance
2011 - red bull dominance
2012 - lacking pace

Edited by bonjon1979a, 28 June 2013 - 18:33.


#3431 Xeriks

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:08

We should be taking pole in qualy today, but I'm not sure, RB were definitely sand bagging in that session.

The long runs earlier into the session didn't look that bad either, I expect both drivers to qualify within the top 3 and then at least one of them to make the podium tomorrow!



#3432 SamH123

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:11

I wish Sunday was going to be cool
I hope the warmer conditions are not going to make the difference

#3433 KiloWatt

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:26

We should be taking pole in qualy today, but I'm not sure, RB were definitely sand bagging in that session.

The long runs earlier into the session didn't look that bad either, I expect both drivers to qualify within the top 3 and then at least one of them to make the podium tomorrow!



Thanks for that jinx. If the weekend doesn't go well, we know who to blame. Rookie mistake that...

:p

#3434 Fangiola

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:28

I watched FP2 yesterday and to from what I saw the redbull long run pace was better than the mercedes by far. Not sure where this thing about the long run pace not being bad came from. I don't think its improved that much (if at all)

#3435 MMandi

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:36

I watched FP2 yesterday and to from what I saw the redbull long run pace was better than the mercedes by far. Not sure where this thing about the long run pace not being bad came from. I don't think its improved that much (if at all)


I'm really not seeing that looking at the lap times from fp2 all things considered but will give you the benefit of the doubt.

#3436 Shiroo

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:52

http://intelligentf1...day-practice-2/

#3437 Lamag

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:08

Very interesting article from Intelligent F1. It's a pity that FP3 analysis is not ready. The team should improve their race pace by doing some tweak in the setup of the car.

#3438 race addicted

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:11

The long-runs from this morning isn't going to tell us a lot, as no-one else (of their immediate competitors) did the same, to make for a comparison. In addition to that it looked like half full fuel cell-run, as they were doing laps in the 36 sec.-bracket.

#3439 Vesuvius

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:27

Toto wolff said tomorrow it will be 5-7 degrees warmer than today so they can't be too aggressive with tyres today.

Edited by Vesuvius, 29 June 2013 - 11:28.


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#3440 skyform

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:17

No comments so far, how come, it's 1-2 guys! :drunk: but the race is tommorow.

#3441 SamH123

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:18

The better Merc qualify the worse they race
Worrying performance today :drunk:

#3442 Masenco

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:19

MMMMM THAT FEELS GOOOOOOOD!! Yeahhh booyy!!

#3443 jrg19

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:20

As long as it isnt a shambles tomorrow, both cars staying in the top 5 will be good.

#3444 Spoch

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:21

No comments so far, how come, it's 1-2 guys! :drunk: but the race is tommorow.

Nothing new here! Its the 4th one of the season. Everyone is just keeping their expectations in chk. If it remains a 1-2 at the end of the race tomorrow, then the servers wont be able to handle the traffic

#3445 P123

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:23

Fortunately the tyres look fairly robust here, with a 1 stop possible for some, but I think Merc will still struggle to hold back the Red Bull's.

#3446 akshay380

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:25

Nothing new here! Its the 4th one of the season. Everyone is just keeping their expectations in chk. If it remains a 1-2 at the end of the race tomorrow, then the servers wont be able to handle the traffic

In that case the servers will crash due to Mercedes tire test thread ;)

Edited by akshay380, 29 June 2013 - 13:25.


#3447 10e10

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:26

Congratulations on Lewis for a mega lap! Really deserved this pole. Good luck tomorrow.

#3448 Lamag

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:27

So, Alonso is saying that Pirelli is bringing tyres to suit just two teams and to the others nine teams

#3449 Diablobb81

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:30

So, Alonso is saying that Pirelli is bringing tyres to suit just two teams and to the others nine teams


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Whine some more. He should look at FI.

#3450 JaredS

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 13:32

Vettel is going to be super aggressive on Nico into turn 1. He will not want to be held up behind him whilst Lewis scampers off.