Right. They started the 28 concept in December.
No, September, when Lewis told them he was leaving... Plenty of time. Citation needed for evidence otherwise. Unless Hamilton fans are worried Macca would've been better than Merc this year...
Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:26
Right. They started the 28 concept in December.
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Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:44
Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:51
No, September, when Lewis told them he was leaving... Plenty of time. Citation needed for evidence otherwise. Unless Hamilton fans are worried Macca would've been better than Merc this year...
Posted 19 March 2013 - 23:57
Posted 20 March 2013 - 00:24
Err not true at all, they probably decided the car concept AFTER Lewis left, as in case you didn't notice Button said the 2013 car was designed around him. Doubt that'd be true if they thought they were keeping Lewis.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 00:35
Posted 20 March 2013 - 00:46
Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:00
The Lotus 72 was the fastest car in the '73 season.
Ronnie Peterson took 9 out of 15 poles that year, and were it not for a less than stellar start to the year, I believe Ronnie would have won the title that year. Jackie did not get that title easily.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:37
That means Lewis would extract maximum from car while present 'balanced' drivers cannotWhitmarsh said that the 28 had been designed around Lewis post Eddie Jordan's crystal ball act, long before Lewis announced he was leaving (when MW was in denial).
Whilst the former Champions thoughts should be respected, they should consider carefully as to whether they are competent and have relevant experience to comment on contemporary fellow Champions, before running their mouths.
Seano
Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:44
Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:23
Edited by bourbon, 20 March 2013 - 04:24.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:32
Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:51
Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:27
Stirling Moss is a bitter old man who still believes Schumacher only deserved two of his 7 WDC. He's incredibly jealous of Michael's success in F1 and you can clearly hear it in many of his interviews. He obviously feels that Schumi won too many championships for a driver of his calibre, while he himself perceives that he should have won more titles.
Moss can be very obnoxious at times.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:44
Lewis is bang-on IMO.
He had 6 years with McLaren (as an F1 driver that is) and only on two of those did the team, which likes to think of itself as the top team in the sport, produce a car which was good enough for the WDC. It isn't as if he has left an unbeatable team and going by their start to the season, they won't be anywhere near even Mercedes for the next few races at least.
Frankly, people like Jackie Stewart have started to bore me.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:55
Nope, it's an opinion.Is this your expert psychological analysis?
Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:07
He didn't say that no, but he is regarded as a great and he knows it. Out of all the old guys, JS is probably the one I like the least, if Hamilton was joining Lotus you would not hear a peep from Jackie with that big fat Genii logo on his shirt.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:11
Utter nonsense. They would've decided the concept of the car at around this time last year, well before they knew whether or not Hamilton was staying. You're grasping at straws if you're trying to argue it wasn't a good move for hamilton. It's the best thing for him, in terms of his mindset, as well as being in a car that is competitive not just now but in the future.
Conversely, there are a lot of questions that hangover Mclaren at the moment. 2009 wasn't a good year, 2011 they royally screwed up in winter testing with the fan tail exhaust but were fortunate that when they copied the red bull solution it gave them instant lap time. They've lost a lead driver, lost their main sponsor, there's question marks over engines, they've lost their technical director, the car they've produced is an absolute mutt and under the stewardship of Whitmarsh the good ship mclaren are looking rudderless. In the first race of the season, they've made a litany of errors that blighted them last year - putting button and perez on to ss tyres too soon in q 2, then putting button on ss too soon in q3 so tyres were destroyed for race, slow pitstops (6th fastest team overall), inexplicably putting Perez on to super softs in second stints and losing a shed load of time. They're calamitous as a team at the moment and I can't see Whitmarsh there beyond this season.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:12
While some are defending jackie, I dont think Lewis has spoken a word about him. People should read the complete article first.
Edited by Bartonz20let, 20 March 2013 - 07:29.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:10
Nope, it's an opinion.
Likewise, it doesn't take an expert to figure out that Stirling is clearly envy of Michael.
Edited by jj2728, 20 March 2013 - 15:05.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:35
Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:53
Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:00
This is former driver Michael Schumacher you are referring to?Nope, it's an opinion.
Likewise, it doesn't take an expert to figure out that Stirling is clearly envy of Michael.
Posted 20 March 2013 - 15:16
We should probably remember that in the absence of personal contact, the majority of our understanding of the personality of JYS and Stirling Moss is created almost exclusively through a media lens. While I feel that sometimes both Moss and JYS come across rather as blowhards, I try to realize that this may well be a media creation rather than the reality.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:11
Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:15
Books are an excellent media for reading up on drivers' past. I sometimes think that their histories are ignored, that their achievemnents and accomplishments behind the wheel are given short thrift. The current day media (with very few exceptions) IMHO is at times even less informed about said drivers and thus people are given sway to opinions and iterpret them in the wrong manner. What is even more disturbing is that when someone such as JYS or SMS say something that is interpreted the wrong way against a current driver, they are immmediately labelled as 'idiots', 'envious' and 'blowhards'. I find it difficult to understand how so many so called fans and armchair experts consider themselves to be such when they have so little respect for the past and the rich history of those that participated in it.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:15
Books are an excellent media for reading up on drivers' past. I sometimes think that their histories are ignored, that their achievemnents and accomplishments behind the wheel are given short thrift. The current day media (with very few exceptions) IMHO is at times even less informed about said drivers and thus people are given sway to opinions and iterpret them in the wrong manner. What is even more disturbing is that when someone such as JYS or SMS say something that is interpreted the wrong way against a current driver, they are immmediately labelled as 'idiots', 'envious' and 'blowhards'. I find it difficult to understand how so many so called fans and armchair experts consider themselves to be such when they have so little respect for the past and the rich history of those that participated in it.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:17
As I understand it some drivers and hacks have said that Hamiltons move to Merc would be a mistake. And based on the fact he finished 5th in Australia.. he's come out all puffy chested to say they're wrong. ALREADY!
Forgive me, but I don't think 1 x 5th place is the beginning or the end of it. A logical barometer would be if he wins a WDC before a McLaren driver does or if the sustained level of performance at Mercedes is better than at McLaren over the period of time he drives for Mercedes.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:20
As I understand it some drivers and hacks have said that Hamiltons move to Merc would be a mistake. And based on the fact he finished 5th in Australia.. he's come out all puffy chested to say they're wrong. ALREADY!
Forgive me, but I don't think 1 x 5th place is the beginning or the end of it. A logical barometer would be if he wins a WDC before a McLaren driver does or if the sustained level of performance at Mercedes is better than at McLaren over the period of time he drives for Mercedes.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:57
Nope, Michael Phelps.This is former driver Michael Schumacher you are referring to?
Posted 21 March 2013 - 18:10
Posted 21 March 2013 - 18:47
I wonder if the thread headline could be also relevant to DC and JV regarding their recent (negative) comments about Vettel.According to ESPN, Hamilton hits out at Sir Jacky Stewart and Stirling Moss on their opinion on his move to Mercedes.
Never a dull moment, as they say.
http://en.espnf1.com...ory/103496.html
Edited by Sakae, 21 March 2013 - 18:47.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 18:50
As I understand it some drivers and hacks have said that Hamiltons move to Merc would be a mistake. And based on the fact he finished 5th in Australia.. he's come out all puffy chested to say they're wrong. ALREADY!
Forgive me, but I don't think 1 x 5th place is the beginning or the end of it. A logical barometer would be if he wins a WDC before a McLaren driver does or if the sustained level of performance at Mercedes is better than at McLaren over the period of time he drives for Mercedes.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 19:00
As I understand it some drivers and hacks have said that Hamiltons move to Merc would be a mistake. And based on the fact he finished 5th in Australia.. he's come out all puffy chested to say they're wrong. ALREADY!
Forgive me, but I don't think 1 x 5th place is the beginning or the end of it. A logical barometer would be if he wins a WDC before a McLaren driver does or if the sustained level of performance at Mercedes is better than at McLaren over the period of time he drives for Mercedes.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 19:01
I find the lack of respect towards people like JYS and Stirling Moss incredible, they really have been there and done it. And they're hardly out of the loop, being involved in F1 in one or another ever since their 'retirement'. JYS was a team owner as recently as 1999, so he probably knows a fair bit about current F1. Whats more, they're entitled to their opinions, and entitled not to be insulted for expressing them.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 19:12
If it was only once a year they talk to the media, allright, but these guys make a living of being the public F1 'great' and blabber something every week. Respect for their racecraft: yes. Respect for their populistic opinions, rent-a-quotes: no.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 20:06
They really don't say that much, it;s just that what they say generates a lot of comment in return. As a general rule, when a driver (current or ex) says something remotely negative about another driver they are then attacked as idiots/ jealous/ senile/ don't know what their talking about, etc. Obviously their opinions matter to a certain extent. The real muppets are the fans who over-react to anything a driver says. In this case the only reason Stewart and Moss are being singled out is because the author of the story included a snippet of their comments. And Hamilton is being attacked by similar numpties who have created an additional story of him boasting over 5th place.... The drivers can't win with these folk.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 20:19
I'm surprised that your understanding would be so poor, even accounting for the fact that taking such an 'understanding' is a means of positive reinforcement with regards your negative view of Hamilton . Especially as his point was that the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Those who can't see beyond the end of their nose belong in this forum.
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Posted 21 March 2013 - 20:25
Nope, it's an opinion.
Likewise, it doesn't take an expert to figure out that Stirling is clearly envy of Michael.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 21:02
You obviously don't know much about Sir Stirling Moss, do you? I would suggest that you read up a bit more on the man before making unsubstantiated claims about his 'envy' of Schumacher or that he is 'bitter' about not having won the WDC. Before you start making uninformed and juvenile statements, you need to learn a bit more about the past.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:10
Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:33
Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:33
Why is it, EVERY time I come to like Lewis, he says or does something which gets my back up?
I'm sorry but he could have worded that a lot better, it comes across as arrogance and he should have respect for the oldies, these guys were MEN and raced when F1 was often lethal, losing 2-3-4 friends a seaon, not the cottonwool soft and supersafe drivers of today. 3 drips of rain and the SC comes out.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:41
Edited by Bartonz20let, 21 March 2013 - 22:42.
Posted 21 March 2013 - 23:32
Appears to be. Please read the complete article friend.Sold on the headline then?
Posted 21 March 2013 - 23:41
Sorry that's what he said, not what he really thinks, if the timing of his quote is anything to go by. That was my point, the timing was too hasty. One swallow doesn't make a summer and all that.
"It's been everyone, particularly all the ex-drivers commenting that it was the worst decision ever. They said: 'He's going to finish nowhere, they're going to be nowhere.' And then they contradicted themselves, going the other way.
"They don't know what they're talking about. They're either this way or that, when the truth is the bit in the middle."
Posted 22 March 2013 - 00:43
Appears to be. Please read the complete article friend.