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Gillette rumoured as new title sponsor for Mclaren


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#1501 V8 Fireworks

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Posted Yesterday, 11:57

Because even the top teams have slumps. Open up Wikipedia to check the history of team Enstone, Williams, McLaren, Red Bull, Brabham, Ferrari etc!!

 

Williams is not a top team.  They are midfield team which is over-performing...  If they continue to do well then they will attract more sponsors on the MERITS of their performances.  :cool:

 

Is Lotus (Enstone) a top team?  Renault and Benetton used to be spectactular...  Now Lotus will do well to even turn up to Australian GP. Backmarkers and midfielders get the appropriate sponsorship.   ;)

 

We all know what happened to the original Lotus and Brabham... It did not go well. As they became backmarkers they got backmarker-level sponsorship which was NOT MUCH.  :wave:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, Yesterday, 12:00.


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#1502 V8 Fireworks

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Posted Yesterday, 11:58

I don't like the fact that McLaren is the only Honda works team for only a single year. Honda is perfectly capable of supplying everyone, including their own works team from 2016 (if they made one).

 

 

McLaren better do a good job then. ;)



#1503 loki0420

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Posted Yesterday, 12:06

I don't like the fact that McLaren is the only Honda works team for only a single year. Honda is perfectly capable of supplying everyone, including their own works team from 2016 (if they made one).

 

That seems like a very vague contract.

 

Honda plan:

1. Get the engine running in McLaren test-car 2015.

2. Supply everyone interested for 2016. McLaren looses the "works" badge.

3. Startup new Honda F1 team with Ross Brawn and win everything.

4. Retire on top.

 

Ron Dennis is the one saying that future F1 winners is going to be works teams. But how long will his team hold on to this title?

 

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are. Its been mentioned that McLaren would not only continue to be Honda's #1 team as its written in contract but i definitely heard they could vetoed any team from Honda engines. That being said i guess that RB would never get Honda engines in the next 10 years.

 

And about 3rd option you wrote - that would be so laughable.



#1504 oetzi

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Posted Yesterday, 12:08



What high handed stance? 

 

Dunno. Maybe this one?

 

 

It's McLaren's car and team, they are not obligated even to have sponsors or to have to paint their car to suit some random company's sales strategy.



#1505 Nicktendo86

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Posted Yesterday, 12:19

My guess is they would allow smaller teams use the engines from 2016 onwards, say any team that comes lower than 5th in the WCC or something like that. Benefits both Honda and McLaren as they will obviously get more track data etc. Who knows though, the contracts could say anything this is all pure speculation.



#1506 loki0420

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Posted Yesterday, 12:23

My guess is they would allow smaller teams use the engines from 2016 onwards, say any team that comes lower than 5th in the WCC or something like that. Benefits both Honda and McLaren as they will obviously get more track data etc. Who knows though, the contracts could say anything this is all pure speculation.

That will depend on price and perfomance but i can see only Sauber (of existing teams) that could make a switch



#1507 Maustinsj

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Posted Yesterday, 13:11

2. Supply everyone interested for 2016. McLaren looses the "works" badge.

 

 

If they loose the "works" badge, it might fall off.



#1508 oetzi

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Posted Yesterday, 13:29

Loose badge > falls off > engine no longer works?



#1509 Rinehart

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Posted Yesterday, 13:29

Strong hints that the new McLAren Honda will be black, white, orange and title-sponsorless..

 

mclaren-honda-concept-livery.jpg



#1510 keiichi

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Posted Yesterday, 13:38

It still baffles me that a brand like Mclaren with a brand new factory backing from Honda and two highly marketable drivers still hasn't managed to get a title sponsor. Are they being too picky or is this just a sign of the times we live nowadays?



#1511 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 13:38

Strong hints that the new McLAren Honda will be black, white, orange and title-sponsorless..

 

 

 

I can see SAP, Mobil1. Azko Nobel there, not quite sponsor less. If this is indeed the scheme  then I like it.

 

:cool:



#1512 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 13:39

Is it not possible that Honda do not want a title sponsor? That they do not want to have their name 'diluted' when talking McLaren? Free engines is a very hefty savings budgetary speaking.

 

 

 

 

 

:cool:



#1513 keiichi

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Posted Yesterday, 13:52

Is it not possible that Honda do not want a title sponsor? That they do not want to have their name 'diluted' when talking McLaren? Free engines is a very hefty savings budgetary speaking.

 

 

 

 

 

:cool:

 

That doesn't make much sense to me. A title sponsor as long as it wasn't another car brand (wich would be impossible for obvious reasons) isn't going to take any brand visibility from Honda, and then as much as Mclaren saves having free engines, any extra million (from a title sponsor I would imagine it'd be somewhere around the tens of millions?) would be welcome to be used in the development of the car.



#1514 loki0420

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Posted Yesterday, 13:53

I can see SAP, Mobil1. Azko Nobel there, not quite sponsor less. If this is indeed the scheme  then I like it.

 

:cool:

And I'm sure there'll be other minor sponsors like CNN. If i remember correctly prior to MP4-22 launching we were not hearing about many sponsors apart from Vodafone of course. But then AIGO and Santander appears on the car with other small companies. I won't rule out this kind of outcome now too so there would be more of a wow factor when cover gets off. 



#1515 F1ultimate

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Posted Yesterday, 13:56

It still baffles me that a brand like Mclaren with a brand new factory backing from Honda and two highly marketable drivers still hasn't managed to get a title sponsor. Are they being too picky or is this just a sign of the times we live nowadays?

 

Picky and probably charging a fortune now that Alonso is a one of their drivers. Few heads of marketing can successfully make a business case for a €20 million annual sponsorship. 



#1516 Maustinsj

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Posted Yesterday, 13:58

Strong hints that the new McLAren Honda will be black, white, orange and title-sponsorless..

 

mclaren-honda-concept-livery.jpg

 

...and still sponsored by Hugo Boss.  :p



#1517 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 13:59

That doesn't make much sense to me. A title sponsor as long as it wasn't another car brand (wich would be impossible for obvious reasons) isn't going to take any brand visibility from Honda, and then as much as Mclaren saves having free engines, any extra million (from a title sponsor I would imagine it'd be somewhere around the tens of millions?) would be welcome to be used in the development of the car.

 

"McLaren Honda" or "McLaren Telefonica Honda", if I were Honda I would see that as a 'dilution'.

 

:cool:



#1518 loki0420

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Posted Yesterday, 14:02

"McLaren Honda" or "McLaren Telefonica Honda", if I were Honda I would see that as a 'dilution'.

 

:cool:

But McLaren always puts sponsor name in front McLaren/engine combination. 



#1519 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 14:07

But McLaren always puts sponsor name in front McLaren/engine combination. 

 

I see it differently than you.

 

:cool:

 

 

Edit to add, most likely they will get a sponsor and ignore what I think


Edited by KWSN - DSM, Yesterday, 14:08.


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#1520 Lazy

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Posted Yesterday, 14:08

 

That seems like a very vague contract.

 

 

Am I wrong?

Have you seen it?

 

As I understand it they have a 10 year deal, so yes, you are wrong.



#1521 dau

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Posted Yesterday, 14:32

 

Yes and? McLaren outlived them all...Throughout the years, many around McLaren collapsed, but McLaren survived. They have gone through a very difficult times, becoming a huge car company with thousands employees, huge state-of-the-art facilities etc.

Yes, McLaren survived. So far. But they did because of their strong partners, their success and, well, Ron Dennis, i guess. But nothing of that can be taken for granted and heritage alone won't be worth a damn as those examples have shown. We'll see if Honda will be a partner like Marlboro, West, Mercedes or even Vodafone or if it ends like Williams-BMW or BAR-Honda. Performance-wise, they're just a midfield team at the moment and that's likely not going to change this year. And regarding his Ron-ness, from what i've read, he needs to find investors or risks being replaced in the near future. Can you imagine a McLaren empire without Ron Dennis?

 

I'm not saying they're doomed or anything, for all i can see they seem to be pretty healthy right now and in a good position to return to glory. But we've seen giants fall in this sport; thinking that "heritage" will save McLaren from doing the same is pretty optimistic in my book.



#1522 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 14:48

Any F1 car raced by Alonso make the team a front ranking team.

 

:cool:



#1523 Kristian

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Posted Yesterday, 14:50

Any F1 car raced by Alonso make the team a front ranking team.

 

:cool:

 

Unless its a Minardi or a 2014 Ferrari :p 



#1524 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 14:59

Unless its a Minardi or a 2014 Ferrari :p

 

Alonso raced the Minardi at levels no other driver could have, he was yet to be established in F1 it being his first season, marked himself to be a driver which had to be in a front running team. He single handedly placed Ferrarith in the WCC in front of two teams powered by the mighty Mercedes.  :clap:

 

:cool:



#1525 Kristian

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Posted Yesterday, 16:13

Alonso raced the Minardi at levels no other driver could have,

 

:cool:

 

O/T but Webber got a 5th, 8th and 10th in 2002 whereas Alonso's highest result was a 10th in 2001. So there  :p

 

On the livery it would be great to see a lot of orange; it would be great to see a sponsor like Repsol come back as they have the Spanish connection with Alonso and their logo would go really well. Although we'd all think we would be watching the Orange Arrows team

 

342bd32f3d9e4a01989753b138430138.jpg



#1526 Hans V

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Posted Yesterday, 16:54

The fact that McLaren can't land a title sponsor, despite Rons promises last spring, is hugely worrying, not only for McLaren but for for F1 as a whole. It might be that McLaren is holding out for the right deal and don't want to lock themselves into something that isn't 100%, but that stubbornness is becoming really expensive. Assuming such a deal is worth 35-50 million Euros a year and that McLaren Formula 1 Team is a very expensive operation, McLaren had to be running at a huge deficit in 2014. Unless Honda has stepped in. 2015 might be better as Honda probably will cough some money in addition to free engines, but I Wonder if that will be enough to bring McLaren into the black. The fact that even the might of McLaren and Ron Dennis can't find a title sponsor is a sign of the times. To me it undelines that F1 isn't nearly as popular that people withinin F1 believes, Bernies overblown TV ratings bluff have been called, PPV TV makes this much worse,  the demographics isn't that interesting for major brands and all the bad PR makes many potential sponsors stay away.  



#1527 ninetyzero

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Posted Yesterday, 17:04

The fact that McLaren can't land a title sponsor, despite Rons promises last spring, is hugely worrying, not only for McLaren but for for F1 as a whole. It might be that McLaren is holding out for the right deal and don't want to lock themselves into something that isn't 100%, but that stubbornness is becoming really expensive. Assuming such a deal is worth 35-50 million Euros a year and that McLaren Formula 1 Team is a very expensive operation, McLaren had to be running at a huge deficit in 2014. Unless Honda has stepped in. 2015 might be better as Honda probably will cough some money in addition to free engines, but I Wonder if that will be enough to bring McLaren into the black. The fact that even the might of McLaren and Ron Dennis can't find a title sponsor is a sign of the times. To me it undelines that F1 isn't nearly as popular that people withinin F1 believes, Bernies overblown TV ratings bluff have been called, PPV TV makes this much worse,  the demographics isn't that interesting for major brands and all the bad PR makes many potential sponsors stay away.  

 

I don't think it's a case of 'McLaren can't land a title sponsor', more a case of them being fussy (Ron Dennis, fussy? Never!) and not being willing to sell the title sponsorship at a bargain basement price just so they can say that they have a title sponsor. I can't imagine McLaren Group is short of a few quid.



#1528 Hans V

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Posted Yesterday, 17:44

Well, times they are a-changing. It seems like companies aren't lining up to sponsor McLaren anymore, at least not for the amounts teams like McLaren need -  and it seems Ron is learing that the expensive way. The problem, not only for McLaren, but for all the teams, is that the huge gap between the sports thirst for money - and the commercial attractiveness of the sport. It's just not sustainable.   


Edited by Hans V, Yesterday, 17:45.


#1529 Nathan

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Posted Yesterday, 17:45

Why on Earth would Honda accept their logo being painted in McLaren corporate colours?  You have Honda and Santander paying significant sums, red is surely going to appear before orange.

 

We are coming off the second worse economic situation in a century, the largest consumer markets have not bounced back, other sports have become more popular in emerging markets, motorsports is not as interesting to the young generation as others in the past, and we are wondering why expensive sponsorship is hard to find.  Must be Bernie...

I think F1 is just too damn expensive.


Edited by Nathan, Yesterday, 18:00.


#1530 MarkWRX

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Posted Yesterday, 18:40

Well Hugo Boss moved to Mercedes, so that part of the provisional livery isn't correct.  I imagine that McLaren have a pretty expensive rate card.  They can't set a bargain price for title sponsorship when they have other brands that are paying off the old rate card.

 

Isn't Alonso bringing Santander?  Maybe SAP and Mobile liked the increased exposure and are willing to pay more or maybe McLaren is just sucking it up and making do without. 

 

I'd like to see a big title sponsor because that means money for development.  Gillette would be good, as long as they don't put a "drivers' must be clean shaven" clause as they all seem to go for the scruffy or bearded look.



#1531 mclarensmps

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Posted Yesterday, 19:40

I don't get how this conversation turned into a big team-small team thing.

 

The lack of performance in the McLarens at the moment is not the biggest reason they are unable to attract large sponsors, but it is a major factor. Look at the teams that are ahead of them:

1. Mercedes: Bankrolled to the point of no expenses spared, by the manufacturer. Need for sponsorship is minimum, but nice to have.

2. Ferrari: Essentially the same as the above, except they are going through a period of complete and utter mismanagement.

3. Red Bull: Team owner is a bottomless pit of money, however, thanks to their fantastic performances over the past half decade or so (a bit more than that), are able to attract extra sponsorship, albeit through their engine supplier (in Nissan/Renault: Infiniti).

4. Williams: Now we're at the level where you have a team that is arguably smaller (but no less important) than McLaren, and have had sponsorship troubles of their own. They have a smaller operating budget than McLaren, and most likely also charge less for space on their car for two reasons: The operation is smaller, and because they haven't had the same success as they had in years gone by.

5. Force India: An even smaller operation than Williams. Their main sponsorship are various subsidiaries of the team owner, plus a few others. They, along with Sauber, and arguably Lotus, have a fairly decent technical setup that has allowed them to punch above their weight in recent seasons, however, all of them have struggled at some point or another for resources. Force India is the most stable of this group, but they still have money problems of their own. 

 

Now you add McLaren into the mix and you are immediately able to see that they sit in between two groups of teams right now.

 

On one end, you have Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull who are all massive operations, but do not have to particularly worry about sponsorship so much, due to the natural funding they receive. However, due to name/stature, the comfort of knowing that they don't actually have money issues, and performance, they can ask a high price for a sticker on their car, and afford to hold out for it.

 

On the other hand, you have Williams, FI, Sauber and Lotus, who yo yo between themselves in the performance department, and sometimes have exceptional years (I'm talking about recent history only). Being smaller (and again, I reiterate, I just mean smaller in size - Especially in the case of Williams, and arguably Lotus), and not having works relationships, they will look absolutely anywhere for money, otherwise it puts the entire operation in jeopardy. Thus they can undercut the bigger teams to get sponsors on their cars because it costs sponsors less to do it.

 

And smack in the middle of this, you have McLaren who have a massive operation, extremely poor results over the past half decade (as a fan, I'd argue even longer :p), have diverted resources into a new car company, and have a fairly complicated and political ownership environment. Couple this with the fact that they are no longer a works team (up until this year), and you can see from their point of view, why they'd put a larger price tag on the car for logo space than say, Williams. However, due to recent results it's hard for them to convince someone to pony up that cash. If they begin to accept a lower amount of money for title sponsorship, then it wouldn't be an easy task to increase the amount they get if their (projected) value increases through better performances and TV airtime. On top of that, it could be a case of sponsors wanting to do multi-year deals at low rates, therefore, making the choice difficult, if indeed the team's performances do imminently improve.

 

There are a lot of other factors, I am sure, but on the face of it, it's fairly straightforward why it's difficult for them to get what they want, because they are demanding A, the sponsors are willing to pay B, and the value for money the sponsor will get is sitting somewhere around D or E.

 

I think if the team begins to show promise through this season then they will have an easier time finding someone who wants to slap their big logo on the car, and it feels like this is what big Ron is waiting for. 



#1532 BARHonda006

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Posted Yesterday, 19:46

Do people forget that JB has done a lot of PR work for Santander?

#1533 Timstr11

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Posted Yesterday, 20:16

I don't get how this conversation turned into a big team-small team thing.

 

The lack of performance in the McLarens at the moment is not the biggest reason they are unable to attract large sponsors, but it is a major factor. Look at the teams that are ahead of them:

1. Mercedes: Bankrolled to the point of no expenses spared, by the manufacturer. Need for sponsorship is minimum, but nice to have.

 

 

I don't think the Petronas title sponsor deal is peanuts. It's that calibre of sponsor McLaren is looking for. 

You cannot deny that a big factor is the lack of results.

 

Shell is paying big bucks to Ferrari as well. I doubt Exxon are paying McLaren the same.


Edited by Timstr11, Yesterday, 20:25.


#1534 Rasputin

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Posted Yesterday, 20:36

Is Yardley still out there?

 

http://www.sportscar...and-Prix-18.jpg


Edited by Rasputin, Yesterday, 20:38.


#1535 pacificquay

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Posted Yesterday, 21:06

I don't get how this conversation turned into a big team-small team thing.

 

The lack of performance in the McLarens at the moment is not the biggest reason they are unable to attract large sponsors, but it is a major factor. Look at the teams that are ahead of them:

1. Mercedes: Bankrolled to the point of no expenses spared, by the manufacturer. Need for sponsorship is minimum, but nice to have.

2. Ferrari: Essentially the same as the above, except they are going through a period of complete and utter mismanagement.

3. Red Bull: Team owner is a bottomless pit of money, however, thanks to their fantastic performances over the past half decade or so (a bit more than that), are able to attract extra sponsorship, albeit through their engine supplier (in Nissan/Renault: Infiniti).

4. Williams: Now we're at the level where you have a team that is arguably smaller (but no less important) than McLaren, and have had sponsorship troubles of their own. They have a smaller operating budget than McLaren, and most likely also charge less for space on their car for two reasons: The operation is smaller, and because they haven't had the same success as they had in years gone by.

5. Force India: An even smaller operation than Williams. Their main sponsorship are various subsidiaries of the team owner, plus a few others. They, along with Sauber, and arguably Lotus, have a fairly decent technical setup that has allowed them to punch above their weight in recent seasons, however, all of them have struggled at some point or another for resources. Force India is the most stable of this group, but they still have money problems of their own. 

 

 

And smack in the middle of this, you have McLaren who have a massive operation, extremely poor results over the past half decade 

 

 

Force India have never finished ahead of McLaren in the championship, so that's nonsense.

 

Secondly - "extremely poor results over the past half decade" - in the past half decade McLaren have won 18 Grands Prix. 



#1536 Lemans

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Posted Yesterday, 21:09

Is Yardley still out there?

 

http://www.sportscar...and-Prix-18.jpg

 

That would be so nice! :up:



#1537 oetzi

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Posted Yesterday, 22:34

I don't think the Petronas title sponsor deal is peanuts

Petronas = Honda

#1538 Timstr11

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Posted Yesterday, 23:07

Petronas = Honda

That's a big myth.

#1539 shonguiz

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Posted Yesterday, 23:14

Petronas = Honda

How ?



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#1540 ATM

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Posted Yesterday, 23:57

Good question, I thought Petronas was a state-owned Malaysian company, not much to do with Honda. 

Also, if I remember correctly, they used to sponsor BMW-Sauber at a time when an official Honda F1 team was actually running (i.e. 2007). 

 

 

Now back to the level of money Macca are asking for prime sponsorship...if they want to be picky, that's their problem  in the end. After all, Caterham was full of stickers but that didn't help them into avoiding going bankrupt. As long as Macca don't follow their example, I have no issues with empty sidepods, honestly.



#1541 DanardiF1

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Posted Today, 00:04

They also sponsor Toyota in SuperGT and Super Formula in direct competition with Honda... so that assertion is bunkum really.



#1542 Jimisgod

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Posted Today, 01:39

Could Honda be the title sponsor?

#1543 chumma

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Posted Today, 01:57

Petronas was around when Sauber were using Ferrari in the late 90s early naughties