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Alonso vs Massa - 2013


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#601 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 19:42

I do not remember the last srong rae of Felipe, Can you help me?


Brazil last year.

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#602 garoidb

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 19:45

I do not remember the last srong rae of Felipe, Can you help me?


Well, no, I can't. However, before others jump in and escalate this discussion, I think we have to discount the races and periods where he was driving in support of Fernando (e.g. Rio 2012). I am not defending Felipe. I am saying that he needs to produce some strong races soon. For a long period, it seemed like this was well beyond him. More recently, there have been some glimpses of speed but not yet an eye catching performance over a full race distance. It has been too long, and he needs to show that he can (still) do it, or do it under the conditions of 2013 (no refuelling, KERS, DRS, Pirellis etc).

#603 ryan86

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 19:48

So a dozen sparkling results will cancel three awfull years! I hope SD care his job.


I'm sure there's a more poetic saying, but if the dozen sparkling results are the last 12 races, surely they would carry more weight than being dire years previous.

#604 garoidb

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 19:53

Brazil last year.


Yes, he drove extremely well there but it was not a normal race as he was not racing Fernando (and Fernando was not racing him). But yes, that level of competitiveness on a regular basis would certainly make Ferrari think twice about bringing in a new, less experienced driver.

#605 Goron3

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 19:59

Felipe was pretty handy at Silverstone last year too. Okay he finished behind Alonso and off the podium but he was close to Seb throughout.

#606 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 20:33

There's Texas aswell, after the grid drop.

Thought Australia wasn't bad either, caught out by strategy, can't fault the lad for that.

But yes, he needs to up it a little, his stronger tracks are near the end of the year which doesn't help matters either.

#607 Enzoluis

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 20:55

Ok, nice race in Austin and in Brasil. But when the team needed his performance he always failed. Suppose that he makes twelve sparkling races (I bet one sallary that he cannot make more that two good races) why should we give him a Ferrari for another year? Why not try Hulkemberg, Di Resta, Bottas or also Rosberg or Vettel? Why we can still keep Massa that the he is not going to win WDC a do not helped for a WCC the last three years? What will do if Fernando broke his leg? Will Massa in position to do what Irvine did in 1999?

#608 apexpredator

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 20:55

Massa also had a very strong pace in Korea last year.

#609 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 20:59

Ok, nice race in Austin and in Brasil. But when the team needed his performance he always failed. Suppose that he makes twelve sparkling races (I bet one sallary that he cannot make more that two good races) why should we give him a Ferrari for another year? Why not try Hulkemberg, Di Resta, Bottas or also Rosberg or Vettel? Why we can still keep Massa that the he is not going to win WDC a do not helped for a WCC the last three years? What will do if Fernando broke his leg? Will Massa in position to do what Irvine did in 1999?


Ask the team, not us.

Massa is more proven driver than Irvine ever was.

As much as I like Irvine, after Schumacher broke his leg, that title was handed out on a plate for him, and he didn't take it.

Hakkinen made a meal of it himself aswell.

#610 Enzoluis

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 21:20

Ask the team, not us.

Massa is more proven driver than Irvine ever was.


Irvine race pace in the midfield were years light of Massa´s



As much as I like Irvine, after Schumacher broke his leg, that title was handed out on a plate for him, and he didn't take it.

Hakkinen made a meal of it himself aswell.


Maybe you have to watch 99 season again. But that is not the point, Do you think that if Alonso broke his leg Massa will do better than Irvine?


#611 garoidb

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 21:22

Massa is more proven driver than Irvine ever was.


Without a doubt.

However, I think almost all the top teams are reliant on their number one drivers at the moment, and could not sustain a WDC challenge if the team leader broke a leg (for example). Mercedes are probably an exception, but Alonso, Vettel and Raikkonen are their teams main WDC hopes.

#612 Konsta

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 21:35

Irvine race pace in the midfield were years light of Massa´s





Maybe you have to watch 99 season again. But that is not the point, Do you think that if Alonso broke his leg Massa will do better than Irvine?

The point precisely. Flippy is quick but utterly incapable of racing like the best. It is all too often that after no matter how little adversity he just fades.

#613 Ravenak

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 21:41

Well. Alonso has now outqualified Massa 3 times in a row.

Three times in a row. Can you believe it? THREE times in a row.

That's like, 1 time, another 1 time, and again, another 1 time, one after the other. Three times back to back, to back.

Amazing. I wonder if Alonso has now the edge over Massa.

People are gonna talk about this, believe me!

#614 Enzoluis

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 21:47

Without a doubt.

However, I think almost all the top teams are reliant on their number one drivers at the moment, and could not sustain a WDC challenge if the team leader broke a leg (for example). Mercedes are probably an exception, but Alonso, Vettel and Raikkonen are their teams main WDC hopes.



You forgot Malaysia? Webber almost won. Do you think that Massa can do the same of Webber in case of Alonso/Vettel broken leg?
Lotus no matter his name is a small team he is happy being in the fight of a championship, they do not ned to big drivers.

#615 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 23:42

Irvine race pace in the midfield were years light of Massa´s
Maybe you have to watch 99 season again. But that is not the point, Do you think that if Alonso broke his leg Massa will do better than Irvine?


Not sure what the midfield race pace has got to do with anything. Compare both of their title campigns, neither of them were great, but Massa didn't become default Number 1 in 2008 like Irvine and delivered well that season, and he was in the title hunt himself in 2007 until the reliability issue in Monza, from then on Massa backed Raikkonen as Ferrari put all their eggs in one basket (rightly so in hingsight).

Would Massa be able to lead a title charge if Alonso was hampered in some way? I don't know, the compettion now is much greater than it was back in 1999, with 4 top drivers near enough their peak, compared to 1999 where no one was at their peak apart from Frentzen.

No I don't have to watch the 1999 season again.

#616 garoidb

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:19

Let's hope Felipe can move forward in the race tomorrow. A good attacking race with a top three finish would help confirm that he can still produce strong races as well as qualifying laps. I would like to see him produce a sparkling race, more than just solid, very soon. He cannot afford to fall too far behind Alonso in the WDC at this stage of the season for obvious reasons. Also, I don't know how likely he is to secure a new Ferrari contract for next year but it won't be too long before this becomes an issue again. I suppose my point is that he does not have until the end of the season to produce sparkling results. The next half dozen races could be crucial.


Well, he did a good job. I think this was his strongest race for quite a while.

#617 Opaque

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:26

Massa did well to finish on the same lap with Alonso.

#618 mkoscevic

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:59

Great race by Massa. :up:

#619 Hanzo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:03

In their time together at Ferrari, Alonso 11 wins, Massa 0 wins.
But that is anecdotic, the most important thing will be to evaluate if Fernando career is definitely over next time he is a whole tenth of a second slower than Massa in qualifying.

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#620 SPBHM

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:11

Great race by Massa. :up:


it was nice, but he was killing the tires way to early, his last laps from each stint were to slow, fortunately the first laps were quick, and the stops were all made at the right time.

Alonso was just fantastic again,

#621 Ravenak

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:24

Seeing Massa struggle to catch Räikkönen was painful.

Great race by him nonetheless. Still, Fernando keeps owning him, but that's not breaking news.

FA/FM:
- 3th outqualifying in a row (3/2 in total)
- 3rd outracing in a row (4/1 in total)

Edited by Ravenak, 12 May 2013 - 19:26.


#622 Richard T

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:46

Nice piece about the drivers parade from Spanish GP by Darren Heath http://darrenheath.c...3/blog/playtime

Playtime

14th May 2013

We’ve all been there: shooting the breeze, chewing the fat, speaking small talk, filling-in time.

19 times this year, one and a half hours before the five red lights go out, our nomex-clad heroes will do just that.

It’s Drivers’ Parade time and everyone’s on show.

Prior to a lap of some crowd-pleasing but often nonchalant hand waving, the 22 racers are corralled together in a conveniently empty pit garage ready for the short walk to their transport (either individual classic cars or an articulated truck trailer – or, at Shanghai, a double-decker bus).

This pre-parade period is just about the most revealing 10 minutes of a grand prix weekend.

First to arrive it’s the new guys: Dutchman Giedo Van der Garde, English pretty boy Max Chilton, the ever-so-quiet Charles Pic and child-like Esteban Gutierrez make for an uncomfortable quartet.

They’re not alone for long; here come the Nicos. Rosberg and Hulkenberg form a German alliance, quickly joined by oh-so-aware-of-himself Adrian Sutil. Standing together these three Aryan-like young men look for all the world as if they came from the same racing driver production line. Behind mirrored shades, they seem happy in their trio.

Standing close is the brooding and cool Jean-Éric Vergne. If this dude put as much effort into his driving as he does his look, superstardom would surely follow.

‘Jev’ as he’s known in the trade, often chats with fellow Frenchman Romain Grosjean. Of course when I say ‘chats with’, I mean ‘shares a polite word or three between pensive poses for the shot-hungry photographers looking on’.

Vergne’s Toro Rosso team-mate, Australian lad Daniel Ricciardo, is a contrast in the extreme. Bouncing up and down like a labrador puppy, he’ll chat with anyone.

Mark Webber, Jenson Button and Felipe Massa – the Brazilian matey with ‘Checo’ Perez – are always popular, polite and friendly. Welcome companions for all and always in demand.

Laughing, joking, sharing stories of road car purchases and dalliances with female friends, these men could be enacting a scene from many a (privileged) school playground anywhere worldwide.


Obviously not everyone is happy in this convivial collective. Paul di Resta, Valterri Bottas and Pastor Maldonado rarely look happy to be here.

For those uneasy, unconfident souls, a metaphorical baby’s blanket is provided by their ever-present drinks bottle, long transparent straw curled up to their mouths they suck hard on energy-inducing liquid.

Kimi Raikkonen – cap pulled hard down and television-sized shades in place – chats quietly with anyone he deems worthy.

Just like any schoolyard there is a main man, the coolest cat in class, the guy everyone wants to seen with.

In walks Fernando.

Purposeful in his gait, ever so confident in his skin, Alonso is the man. Where’s he going to go? Who’s going to get the honour of his attention?

Jules Bianchi is the lucky guy.


Some nervous glances are darted in the Spaniard’s direction and he selectively bestows a greeting to a select few. The hapless Sutil’s open palm is brushed aside as, stretching out their hands, the Nicos are happy and relieved to receive Fernando’s goodwill.

Sutil looks as crestfallen and uncomfortable as I’ve ever seen anyone, anywhere.

The 10 minutes are up, the announcer is ready and off they go, shuffling away to their various rides.

Where’s our champion?

Here he comes, bouncing along, always smiling, looking like he should be arriving on a kid’s stunt scooter; Sebastian Vettel is ready to go.

But hang on – aren’t we missing someone?

Lewis, wannabe rap star Lewis. Free from McLaren’s restraints for 2013, our homeboy from Hertfordshire is more often than not the last to arrive.

Earphones playing banging tunes, ill-fitting and way too long jeans slipping off his waist, bright white basketball boot tongues flapping on his feet, diamond ear studs glinting in the sunlight, Hamilton scuffs his way – sucking on a straw, of course – to the grid.

And that’s it. They’re gone.

A mobile association of multi-millionaire menfolk living the dream.

Well, most of them…


Edited by Richard T, 18 May 2013 - 10:46.


#623 Alondra

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:09

Massa has been doing ok this year. And I say ok because Massa seems to put more energy in fighting Fernando than controlling defensively the rest of the drivers threatening Ferrari on the WCC.

Which I suppose is normal behaviour for a driver. :smoking:

Edited by Alondra, 18 May 2013 - 11:14.


#624 MichaelPM

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 14:23

Alonso beat Massa in qualifying 4 times in a row now!
Has Massa Alonso got his mojo back? etc. etc.

:p

#625 Ravenak

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 14:30

Four times in a row, this is so impressive. What is the media waiting for? They need to write articles about it!

#626 Nomore

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 14:44

Well. Alonso has now outqualified Massa 3 times in a row.

Three times in a row. Can you believe it? THREE times in a row.

That's like, 1 time, another 1 time, and again, another 1 time, one after the other. Three times back to back, to back.

Amazing. I wonder if Alonso has now the edge over Massa.

People are gonna talk about this, believe me!


It's 4 time in a row..but i understand your message :) ...and you are right.

#627 molive

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 14:46

Massa F-up, could've (and has) happened to anyone.

To savage some points Felipe will have to stick it to the track, gamble on 1 stop and count on timely yellows. Very unlikely but not impossible.


#628 garoidb

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 14:54

Massa F-up, could've (and has) happened to anyone.

To savage some points Felipe will have to stick it to the track, gamble on 1 stop and count on timely yellows. Very unlikely but not impossible.


Like Fernando in 2010, basically. Let's hope Felipe can get something from the race.

#629 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 16:38

Like Fernando in 2010, basically. Let's hope Felipe can get something from the race.


It was a bit easier for Alonso in 2010. We had bridgestones that could last the whole race. That meant Alonso could pit on the first lap and any safety cars from there on in would help him out.

Unfortunately Massa can not do this.


#630 Ravenak

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 17:46

OMFG Alonso just outqualified Massa 5 times in a row!

What is happening? Is this the end of the Massa? Is Alonso really such a better driver?

I give you tomorrow's headline in all the sporting newspapers!

#631 MikeV1987

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:34

http://jalopnik.com/...e-mas-662884933

:lol:

#632 Massa

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:14

Fantastic :rotfl:

#633 Nonesuch

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 00:33

I'm sorry for bumping this thread, but this seems to be the most recent Alonso-Massa thread from their time together at Ferrari.

 

These two articles appeared side by side on F1Fanatic.co.uk, which reminded me of this thread. :drunk:

 

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#634 Okyo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 13:44

Why ? It's the same Raikonnen as last year, it was the same Massa as 2008 or 2009. It's just since 2011, the Ferrari is the most understeery car on the grid, we all know Massa didn't like a lazy front end, the same for Raikkonen. They like a front end who react properly and fast, Alonso can deal with weak front end because he is a great driver and his Renault 05 and 06 was very understeery cars.

 

You have just to see the Williams and the Ferrari onbard, the difference in turn in is.. Unbealivable.

 

I just want to say, kudos to Alonso, Massa and Raikkonen to drive these cars. They are hard cars to drive.

What i meant was, i'm really not sure Raikkonen would be third in the WDC. I don't consider him far off Massa's pace, probably just more consistent. IF he was at Williams, with the same odd tactics and bad pit stops, i'm not seeing him being higher than the RedBulls and maybe even Fernando. I would agree that he would be higher than Bottas, but by no means 3rd or 4th.



#635 sennafan24

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 13:46

I think we should have a record here after Austria 2014 quali that Massa most probably was as quick as ever while partnering Alonso

This is pretty much conclusive proof that Ferrari's one lap pace has been piss-poor for years now.



#636 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 13:47

Sorry but we're not going to allow blatant thread bumping when it's completely off-topic.

 

Several posts have been deleted and this topic is now closed.