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Alonso vs Massa - 2013


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#101 BestCarWins

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:52

So, its just bad luck for Alonso, that he lost his 4th duel in row against Massa?


He isn't saying that, he is saying there are reasons for the last 2 qualifying sessions. No doubt massa has improved though.

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#102 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:52

2 in a row, end of 2012 season was 6 months ago mate.


so you can ignore those just because they were last season? :)

And Massa had a double advantage:

- in Melbourne Alonso's DRS didn't open and Massa finished his lap after him
- here, Massa had a better strategy and again finished his last lap much later

I didn't know about DRS. Alonso could have been faster had DRS worked.
Alonso also COULD HAVE been faster had he done the lap later.
as well he could have spun out.

The conditions are never identical. Feel free to ignore these sessions, you have your arguments and they are valid. Also feel free to ignore the last 2 races of 2012 just because well, just because.
Let's wait and see what happens tomorrow.

#103 MoP

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:52

2 in a row, end of 2012 season was 6 months ago mate.

And Massa had a double advantage:

- in Melbourne Alonso's DRS didn't open and Massa finished his lap after him
- here, Massa had a better strategy and again finished his last lap much later


lol much later as in one sector behind....for sure the track was 3 seconds faster then... :rotfl:

#104 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:55

lol much later as in one sector behind....for sure the track was 3 seconds faster then... :rotfl:


Is this your first year following motorsport?

When the track is drying as fast as it did today, it absolutely changes everything. And he didn't go 3 seconds faster, just a tenth, which is enough.

#105 apexpredator

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:57

Was that Massa's gearbox I heard rattling on the straight? maybe a new one is needed?

;)


Oh that is sooo original :clap: wow, did you come up with that all by yourself? Just amazing, so smart :smoking:

#106 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:57

Is this your first year following motorsport?

When the track is drying as fast as it did today, it absolutely changes everything. And he didn't go 3 seconds faster, just a tenth, which is enough.

it's a bit ridiculous to put an amount lie "1 tenth". Well he was faster than 1 tenth
you just never know what the track changed like in that amount of time.

#107 motorhead

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:00

4 qualifyings in a row kind of even out the conditions...


This is the fact Alonso fans ingnore. Massa found the lost Mojo last year, if he will continue like this the racecraft will hopefully follow. Only thing is the driver equality. In 2010 races were 5-5 until Germany team orders when Massa had to give the win to Alonso. It was in the situation nothing had been decided in championship. Last time that kind of thing happened in Schumacher/Barichello era...

...and well maybe in the last race too  ;)

Edited by motorhead, 23 March 2013 - 10:02.


#108 Lulabaloo

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:01

2 in a row, end of 2012 season was 6 months ago mate.

And Massa had a double advantage:

- in Melbourne Alonso's DRS didn't open and Massa finished his lap after him
- here, Massa had a better strategy and again finished his last lap much later


I'm enjoying your posts, in a sadistic kind of way.



#109 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:03

I'm enjoying your posts, in a sadistic kind of way.


Truth hurts, doesn't it.

#110 choyothe

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:03

Thankfully the Ferrari is clearly the best overall package atm so it shouldn't matter.

#111 Kingshark

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:05

This is the fact Alonso fans ingnore. Massa found the lost Mojo last year, if he will continue like this the racecraft will hopefully follow. Only thing is the driver equality. In 2010 races were 5-5 until Germany team orders when Massa had to give the win to Alonso. It was in the situation nothing had been decided in championship. Last time that kind of thing happened in Schumacher/Barichello era...

Alonso was 98-67 against Massa before Germany. :lol:

...and well maybe in the last race too ;)

We've already been over this. Trolls still can't let it go, can they?

#112 SunnyENTP

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:05

Stop it already with 4 in a row. Not the same car, not the same rules, not the same time of the year, not the same standings in the championship.

Yes, Fernando has had bad luck and bad strategies in 2013 until now, yet only finishes on tenth adrift of Massa.

Massa should actually have been higher up in those conditions, but he didn't. The real performance is on Alonso.



It is 4 in a row no matter how you look at it.

#113 Lulabaloo

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:06

Truth hurts, doesn't it.

Nice of you to show your vulnerability.

#114 pusko

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:08

good to see they are close...

#115 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:08

It is 4 in a row no matter how you look at it.


Let's talk about race resultats then, shall we?

Not counting when one of them DNFed, FA beats FM 22 times in a row then, 23 tomorrow.

Happy now? :cat:

Edited by Ravenak, 23 March 2013 - 10:08.


#116 Longtimefan

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:08

It is 4 in a row no matter how you look at it.


Yes it is, when drivers have won x races in a row and are near the record they still count wins from the end of the previous season, ergo its valid.


#117 bsoares

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:08

Stop it already with 4 in a row. Not the same car, not the same rules, not the same time of the year, not the same standings in the championship.

Yes, Fernando has had bad luck and bad strategies in 2013 until now, yet only finishes on tenth adrift of Massa.

Massa should actually have been higher up in those conditions, but he didn't. The real performance is on Alonso.


I think you should complain to Autosport as well, they seem to think that it is the 4th straight race Massa has beaten Alonso in qualy

The Ferraris will line up behind Vettel on the grid. Felipe Massa outqualified Fernando Alonso for a fourth straight race, but was still 0.9 seconds adrift of pole.


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106285

#118 Kingshark

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:09

It is 4 in a row no matter how you look at it.

If you're going to blantely ignore the DRS failure Alonso had in Australia, then going by such logic, Button out-performed Hamilton when teammates because he scored more points, no matter how you look at it.;)

Wishful thinking from a lot of people here, I see. :wave:

Nevertheless, this celebration from so-called Massa fans (really, anti-Alonso) will become all the more sweet when tomorrow, Alonso once again beats Massa in the race. I can't wait for the butt-hurt excuses then!

#119 sheepgobba

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:09

This is the fact Alonso fans ingnore. Massa found the lost Mojo last year, if he will continue like this the racecraft will hopefully follow. Only thing is the driver equality. In 2010 races were 5-5 until Germany team orders when Massa had to give the win to Alonso. It was in the situation nothing had been decided in championship. Last time that kind of thing happened in Schumacher/Barichello era...

...and well maybe in the last race too ;)


It was 6-4 actually, Alonso's way :clap:

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#120 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:10

I think you should complain to Autosport as well, they seem to think that it is the 4th straight race Massa has beaten Alonso in qualy



http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106285


Damn, I think they should be hired by Ferrari for their statistics department, then :drunk:

#121 apexpredator

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:11

I can't wait for the butt-hurt excuses conspiracies then!


Fixed :up:

#122 motorhead

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:18

Alonso was 98-67 against Massa before Germany. :lol:


Yep, but nothing was decided in championship at that moment and Massa was doing a better job in 5 out 10 races at that point. Vettel had only 23 points more that Alonso too. That proved that Ferrari had/has one driver strategy. Otherwise Massa would have been let to drive and fight against Alonso. Usually these team decisions are made in the end of the season when other driver has lost the chances in WDC

#123 abc

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:18

2 in a row, end of 2012 season was 6 months ago mate.

And Massa had a double advantage:

- in Melbourne Alonso's DRS didn't open and Massa finished his lap after him
- here, Massa had a better strategy and again finished his last lap much later

Second time I must state for you.
In Australia they were 7 sec. form one another on track here it was just 20 sec.


#124 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:19

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106289

#125 sheepgobba

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:21

Yep, but nothing was decided in championship at that moment and Massa was doing a better job in 5 out 10 races at that point. Vettel had only 23 points more that Alonso too. That proved that Ferrari had/has one driver strategy. Otherwise Massa would have been let to drive and fight against Alonso. Usually these team decisions are made in the end of the season when other driver has lost the chances in WDC


Nonsense. It was quite clear Alonso was the better driver up until that point of the season.

And it was in Alonso's way till Germany as well...

#126 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:21

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106289


This is at least one thing we can all agree on: it is very positive, for him, for the team and for Fernando.

#127 Kingshark

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:25

Yep, but nothing was decided in championship at that moment and Massa was doing a better job in 5 out 10 races at that point.

Alonso was clearly faster in Bahrain, Australia, China, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Europe, and Great Britain. He didn't finish ahead in Australia and Monaco for different reasons.
Massa was better in Malaysia (Alonso had a broken clutch) and Turkey.

Ferrari deployed team orders in Germany, because Alonso was their best chance to win the WDC that year.

#128 figue

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:27

So, it's 17-4 for alonso

#129 ZuTiMa

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:27

Felipe got a better strategy than Fernando, but I guess that is forgotten.... :rolleyes:

He did a great job, and real Ferrari and Alonso fans should be loving this new level of competition. Haters are just angry that both horses are on form and their heidi thing might be eaten up and spat out by BOTH cars again.

Let's not bite guys, and enjoy this, like I id back in the early part of 2008 in the great days.

P.S. the folk that wanted massa to be replaced and called him, i quote 'a turd' while Ferrari kept their faith in him, now care about him and 'sympathise with him as Ferrari aren't giving him a chance' and saying 'great job, fastest ferrari' etc.? spare me.


Agree Scud, it is great to see Massa back even if he is ahead of Alonso ... if he had this form last year we would have won the WCC no doubt and most likely the WDC too...

At least there 2 drivers now scoring for the WCC and taking points from opposition! hell its great being a Ferrari fan !!

#130 nomi

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:28

I so wish for Massa to win tomorrow.

#131 Kingshark

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:28

Fernando Alonso believes increased competition from Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa is a boost for the whole team.

Massa continued his return to form by outpacing Alonso for the fourth consecutive qualifying session to qualify second for the Malaysian Grand Prix.

Although Alonso is Ferrari's clear number one, he welcomed the extra pace from his Brazilian team-mate.

"It is the best news for the team," said the 2005-2006 world champion.

"We need to have a competition between the two drivers, to share information, and to compare and analyse all the data we have.

"This is only good news for the team. We push ourselves to our own limits."

Alonso also believes bad luck had previously prevented Massa showing his true pace.

"It is not the first time that we have very close competition," he said.

"It was very close the last three years as well, but it was not that close in terms of results because Felipe had some bad luck, some incidents, some mechanical problems."

Massa believes the strengths of the F138 have helped his improvement. "I very much like the car I am driving this year," he said.

"Whenever you feel comfortable, you can do a good lap, you can use the car to the maximum.

"I know how quick I can be. I have showed it many times in the past. I believe in myself. Now the team and myself are going in a good direction."

After finishing second in the dry in Australia and qualifying third in the wet in Malaysia, Alonso also believes Ferrari will be competitive in all conditions.

"The car behaves really well in all conditions," he added. "We are not afraid of what is coming from the sky. Whatever arrives we will take it and be competitive."

:up:

I don't think that Massa's revival has done anything significant to Fernando, however, clearly this will improve their odds for a WCC this season (hopefully), as I don't want to see RBR winning it this year.

Ferrari have waited too long, 2009-12 have been the dark ages.

#132 icewest07

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:31

I just realized that from the top teams, surprisingly Ferrari is the only team where the "N°1" isn't leading the Qualy battle till now. In fact, in all others, the expected leading driver has won both qualy, which is the exact opposite at Ferrari... :stoned:

Well just hope for a clean and fair battle between those two. Has Massa also recovered enough confidence to beat Alonso in the race from now... ? :kiss:

#133 Fontainebleau

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:31

This is the fact Alonso fans ingnore. Massa found the lost Mojo last year, if he will continue like this the racecraft will hopefully follow. Only thing is the driver equality. In 2010 races were 5-5 until Germany team orders when Massa had to give the win to Alonso. It was in the situation nothing had been decided in championship. Last time that kind of thing happened in Schumacher/Barichello era...

...and well maybe in the last race too ;)

2010: Alo/Mas
Bahrain 1/2
Australia 4/3
Malaysia 13/7 (Alonso couldnt finish the race, he lost the gearbox early in the race)
China 4/9
Spain 2/6
Monaco 6/4
Turkey 8/7
Canada 3/15
Europe 8/11
Britain 14/15

Points at the end of that stint: 98/67; difference to the lead: 47/78

It may be that you serioulsy think that, given the data above, both Ferrari drivers were on equal terms when it came to chances of winning WDC (WCCwas out of the question); in my view, any team principal would have done what Domenicalli did - ie, put all my efforts on the only driver who still had a realistic shot at getting close to the top.

And that was miles away from the "Schumacher/Barrichello" situation.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 23 March 2013 - 10:31.


#134 sheepgobba

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:34

2010: Alo/Mas
Bahrain 1/2
Australia 4/3
Malaysia 13/7 (Alonso couldnt finish the race, he lost the gearbox early in the race)
China 4/9
Spain 2/6
Monaco 6/4
Turkey 8/7
Canada 3/15
Europe 8/11
Britain 14/15

Points at the end of that stint: 98/67; difference to the lead: 47/78

It may be that you serioulsy think that, given the data above, both Ferrari drivers were on equal terms when it came to chances of winning WDC (WCCwas out of the question); in my view, any team principal would have done what Domenicalli did - ie, put all my efforts on the only driver who still had a realistic shot at getting close to the top.

And that was miles away from the "Schumacher/Barrichello" situation.


A closer look at one's post show the like and dislike you can hence figure out such odd claims. If you know what I mean ;)

Edited by sheepgobba, 23 March 2013 - 10:35.


#135 MichaelPM

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:34

I see your trolling stat and raise you with...
Alonso's beaten Massa 29 times in a row at races they they both finished.


Now let's all look up at the thread title and stop scrapping the meaningless barrel of previous years.

#136 Fontainebleau

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:38

A closer look at one's post show the like and dislike you can hence figure out such odd claims. If you know what I mean ;)

I do, and I agree with you.

I can fully understand why Massa supporters are happy at him being ahead of Alonso; I respect that. What annoys me is the number of Alonso-haters who only feign a support for Massa, the same ones who were discrediting him last year (and discrediting Alonso every time he stated that Massa was a great driver who was just having bad luck), who now come here not to be happy at Massa's good results, but to gloat about Alonso's supposedly bad ones (which fits the definition of internet trolling, in my opinion).

#137 ArkZ

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:42

I will wait for Qualifying with stable condition to make any conclusion.

Edited by ArkZ, 23 March 2013 - 10:42.


#138 Ikebana

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:42

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106289


This should be killing some myths here. Nice words from Fernando! :wave:

I do, and I agree with you.

I can fully understand why Massa supporters are happy at him being ahead of Alonso; I respect that. What annoys me is the number of Alonso-haters who only feign a support for Massa, the same ones who were discrediting him last year (and discrediting Alonso every time he stated that Massa was a great driver who was just having bad luck), who now come here not to be happy at Massa's good results, but to gloat about Alonso's supposedly bad ones (which fits the definition of internet trolling, in my opinion).


That's the key word. "Supposedly". Because Alonso's supposed "bad" results in comparison to Massa is qualifying right behind him or beating him afterwards on the race.

Edited by Ikebana, 23 March 2013 - 10:44.


#139 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:55

I see your trolling stat and raise you with...
Alonso's beaten Massa 29 times in a row at races they they both finished.

Massa's strength has always been leading from the front, something that he's not had the opportunity to do much since 2008. Instead, thought a mixture of his own and/or the team's poor performances he's had to spend Sundays trying to work his way through the field, which isn't his strong point.

Tomorrow is only the second time since 2008 that he has managed to start on the front row. He's had a few third place starts, most of which have seen him go backwards on the first lap. The exception was German 2010 when he jumped in to the lead; Alonso needed team order to take that win. If I was Alonso, I'd be worried that Massa might just start to put in the occasional performance that gets in his way.

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#140 Infinityl

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:00

Alonso will pull same backroom bullshit like in 2010 if its a problem


403 points in 3 years. Isnt hard to give more credit to Alonso than Massa.

Massa overqualifying Alonso 3 in a row? nice !! I only hope he focused on trying to overtake Vettel more than to block Alonso.

#141 Wander

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:07

403 points in 3 years. Isnt hard to give more credit to Alonso than Massa.

Massa overqualifying Alonso 3 in a row? nice !! I only hope he focused on trying to overtake Vettel more than to block Alonso.


4 actually! Although Ravenak will disagree with you on that as apparently in his world you are not allowed to take into account the results of previous season. :lol:

#142 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:09

4 actually! Although Ravenak will disagree with you on that as apparently in his world you are not allowed to take into account the results of previous season. :lol:


You can, but it doesn't make an argument.

It's the same with stats from the races: you don't see me posting every post that Fernando has beaten Felipe 22 or 29 times in a row. Nobody cares, it's a statistic, not pure performance data that matter.

Why don't you talk about time differentials and HOW Massa beat Alonso, instead of just singing "FOUR TIMES, FOUR TIMES yipidoo" constantly?

Boring.

Edited by Ravenak, 23 March 2013 - 11:11.


#143 Rikhart

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:12

4 times outqualified by massa in a row? Whats happened to the "best driver in the grid"?

#144 Astro

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:13

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106289

:up:

#145 Ravenak

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:15

4 times outqualified by massa in a row? Whats happened to the "best driver in the grid"?


It's "on the grid".

#146 choyothe

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:17

4 times outqualified by massa in a row? Whats happened to the "best driver in the grid"?


Luckily for him qualifying doesn't matter anymore though.

#147 Fontainebleau

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:17

4 times outqualified by massa in a row? Whats happened to the "best driver in the grid"?

He is alive and kicking, and still attracting the same type of hate comments from those who find it hard to accept just how good he is  ;)

#148 rasul

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:18

Whats happened to the "best driver in the grid"?


You mean Lewis or Vettel? They're doing pretty well.

Edited by rasul, 23 March 2013 - 11:18.


#149 Claudius

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:18

I feel Satan is with Massa...

#150 apexpredator

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:21

Whats happened to the "best driver in the grid"?


Please ask that same question this time tomorrow :)