Tobias Gruner Tweet
Even if true, I would imagine that this being pretty hard to work and massively unfair on the other teams. Any thoughts?
Edited by Arry2k, 23 March 2013 - 10:54.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:52
Edited by Arry2k, 23 March 2013 - 10:54.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:59
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:03
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:04
Ain't going to happen.I have no idea whether this guy is a reliable source or not, but, he claims in this tweet that both Mercedes and Red Bull want Pirelli to revert back to 2012 tyre spec.
Tobias Gruner Tweet
Even if true, I would imagine that this being pretty hard to work and massively unfair on the other teams. Any thoughts?
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:05
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:06
Yep, they're using a steel belt for the first time according to amus that overheats.So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:06
Edited by Sin, 23 March 2013 - 11:10.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:08
But it does not appear to be a problem for anyone else and the tyres are the same for all. Surely this is Mercedes and Red Bulls problem to sort out, no?So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:08
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:11
For me it's not so much about a faster degradation.gotta agree tho that the tyres suck... they should make the tyres longer lasting...... so drivers can go to the limit..... no fun to see them going slow just cause of shitty tyres
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:11
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:12
It seems that you failed on your promise.Mercedes and Red Bull build cars which destroy their tyres while other teams did a better job in that area. Now because they're not winning they want other tyres. Cry me a river. It's their own fault if they can't manage the tyres.
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People usually write either something very profound or very silly here. I don't want to do that, so therefore I will leave it blank.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:13
I believe in practice today, on one of Kimi's runs tyre parts were coming off. It's not just Mercedes and Redbull.But it does not appear to be a problem for anyone else and the tyres are the same for all. Surely this is Mercedes and Red Bulls problem to sort out, no?
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:14
So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.
Edited by choyothe, 23 March 2013 - 11:14.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:15
So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:16
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:16
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:17
Krisensitzung bei Red Bull und Mercedes. Das Reifenthema lässt die Formel 1 nicht mehr los. Immer mehr setzt sich die Erkenntnis durch, dass die neuen Pirelli-Reifen die Autos bestrafen, die viel Abtrieb haben. Red Bull-Technikchef Adrian Newey sieht einen direkten Zusammenhang zwischen Abtrieb und Verschleiß. Aber nicht wie früher, dass viel Abtrieb gleichbedeutend ist mit geringem Verschleiß.
"Genau das Gegenteil tritt ein. Wer die Reifen in den Kurven mehr belastet, bezahlt damit, dass sich der Gummi schneller von der Lauffläche schält", so die Analyse des erfahrenen Red Bull-Konstrukteurs. Sein Pilot Sebastian Vettel stöhnt: "Je besser das Auto, umso schlechter bist du dran."
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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:18
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:18
Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
#F1 Mercedes believes, Pirelli will change tyre compounds. Should be less sensitive to cold temperatures. Probably for China.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:20
If there are genuine safety concerns for all teams then, obviously, it is Pirelli's duty to fix the issue - that does not necessarily mean reverting to 2012 though. However, if this is an underhand way for whichever teams to engineer a benefit to themselves under the fascade of safety concerns then, frankly, these notions should not be entertained, IMO.I believe in practice today, on one of Kimi's runs tyre parts were coming off. It's not just Mercedes and Redbull.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:25
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:27
The tyre allocation for China will be changed or the structure/design of the tyre itself?
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:27
I know, do you think I haven't noticed that in the (just under) three years it's been there?It seems that you failed on your promise.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:28
Tyre allocation.The tyre allocation for China will be changed or the structure/design of the tyre itself?
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:29
Mercedes and Red Bull build cars which destroy their tyres while other teams did a better job in that area. Now because they're not winning they want other tyres. Cry me a river. It's their own fault if they can't manage the tyres.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:29
A new design? On such short notice?The structure will be changed to make them better in cold temperatures.
China has typically been cold or wet since its been moved to the beginning of the year it's definitely a good decision
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:31
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:31
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:31
The 'goodness' of a car should not solely be measured in downforce. So if the car destroys the tyres much faster than the opposition then it's not a better car, even if it is quicker over one lap.Except that they are arguing that they are penalised for having a better car and that the problem is that too much DF ruins the tires.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:32
Better still, bring back Bridgstones + DRS = more aggressive racing
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:32
Cheese tyres are unnecessary when we have DRS, that's the bottom line.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:33
Edited by Cenotaph, 23 March 2013 - 11:33.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:33
If you build a fast car you should be rewarded for it. These tyres are close to being beyond useless for going motor racing.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:34
Nah, Red Bull has been dominant since Pirelli entered the sport in 2011. 2010 was very exciting championship wise, so how come you think Red Bull would win it all?Bring Bridgestone back? I guarantee you Red Bull would win 90% of the races and there would be as much overtaking as it used to be in 2010 regardless of DRS
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:36
It might be too short notice to design and test a new tyre, so maybe that's why the 2012 tyre was suggested.If there are genuine safety concerns for all teams then, obviously, it is Pirelli's duty to fix the issue - that does not necessarily mean reverting to 2012 though. However, if this is an underhand way for whichever teams to engineer a benefit to themselves under the fascade of safety concerns then, frankly, these notions should not be entertained, IMO.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:37
But then what should designers focus on when building a car? Maybe downforce became too important in the Pirelli years ( although i thought it always was among the most important factors, am I wrong ) but how are you supposed to build a car and find a soft spot between lacking downforce and having too much of it? Imho Pirelli is messing around too much, regardless of whether it's good for the spectacle or not.The 'goodness' of a car should not solely be measured in downforce. So if the car destroys the tyres much faster than the opposition then it's not a better car, even if it is quicker over one lap.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:38
True enough. Still I would imagine that it would take Pirelli quite some time to produce enough 2012 tyres for all teams.It might be too short notice to design and test a new tyre, so maybe that's why the 2012 tyre was suggested.
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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:40
So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:45
It was not an issue last year or the year before.This is not necessarily true. There are other factors such as exhaust positioning that could be overheating the tyres.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:48
This is not necessarily true. There are other factors such as exhaust positioning that could be overheating the tyres.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:49
Well, but 2010 was exciting because of RB6's poor reliabilty. With tyres built to last like Bridgestone's, Red Bull would be able to push the limits in race trim and translate their apparent one lap pace advantage this year into race pace, imho.Nah, Red Bull has been dominant since Pirelli entered the sport in 2011. 2010 was very exciting championship wise, so how come you think Red Bull would win it all?
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:50
It was not an issue last year or the year before.
You're the first to see that as a probable cause.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:59
Omfg keep the tyres.I didn't say probable. Just that there are other factors that can come into play, and just because it didn't happen last year doesn't mean it can never happen. I have no idea if they have changed the exhaust layout, but they have had problems in that area in the past.
Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:59
Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:00
Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:03
One thing puzzles me though- the regulation didn't change much from last year, the only big challenge is supposed to be making your tyres working. All teams were given testing time in Brazil on these 2013 tyres, on equal circumstance. And now they argue because they couldn't design a car that sustains the tyres?
Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:06
Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:08
One thing is clear: who ever from the top teams is not at the front will put the blame on the tyres. Mostly a feeble excuse.
Edited by Jovanotti, 23 March 2013 - 12:08.