77 replies to this topic

[aditya-now]

I am not sure about Schumacher Mk I
Schumacher Mk II would have held station IMO.

Your "Auf Wiedersehen Mercedes OMG" seems to be reciprocated by the Mercedes F1 Team. We see them again in 2013 - stronger than ever before....

[MP422]

One thing is clear now: Vettel is gonna be the new Schumacher in all respects and he is already hated for it in many quarters.

Nico, on the other hand, is an excellent professional - well, he is German as well, but with Finnish genes....

Crystal clear !

Nico is a class act !!

[aditya-now]

Desperate for a podium comeback Schumacher would have passed Hamilton in a second.

So the reverse of Sbaro's opinion: Schumacher Mk I would not have done it, he was successful enough and could be magnanimous. Schumacher Mk II was desperate enough and would have overtaken Hamilton in an instant.

Anyway, apart from this little aside, Michael had many things not going for his personality, but he was always a man of his word.

[03011969]

Rather a matter of conjecture isn't it?

[rt99]

Schumacher (Ralf) did it at Spa 98.

Very different circumstances. Hill had a 6 second lead over Ralf until the safety car gave Ralf a chance. Hill then offered over the radio to put on a show if that's what the team wanted.

[rt99]

Schumi is a man of his word who doesn't behave in hypocritical and short-sighted "do me a favor but I won't do you any" manner.

Eddie Jordan disagrees.

That leaves us only to conclude that the OP brought him up just 'cause he's one of the plenty garden variety racist Limey bigots here who hate Germans.

Careful now. The limeys are just as passionate as their "greatest ever" hero as the Germans are. Nationally doesn't tend to come into the phenomena of F1 driver hero worship. Reasons for disliking schumacher are very well documented, again nothing to do with Nationality.

[Jejking]

Your "Auf Wiedersehen Mercedes OMG" seems to be reciprocated by the Mercedes F1 Team. We see them again in 2013 - stronger than ever before....

Two words: technical team.

So the reverse of Sbaro's opinion: Schumacher Mk I would not have done it, he was successful enough and could be magnanimous. Schumacher Mk II was desperate enough and would have overtaken Hamilton in an instant.

Anyway, apart from this little aside, Michael had many things not going for his personality, but he was always a man of his word.

Wrong again. Schumacher Mk II would have been smart enough to slam ahead of Hamilton in the second DRS zone, instead of being retaken by Lewis like 89172 times in the second zone before getting the order to stay back. It was incomprehensible what Nico was doing there, he had him already in the pocket but that was his only mistake yesterday.

[William Hunt]

the Schumacher of today would certainly not have passed and listened to the team orders. The young Schumacher, during his Benetton & Ferrari period, would probably not have listened but that's speculation in the end.

[Sakae]

Had Schumacher been driving the No. 9 car instead of Rosberg today, would he had a) made a move, b) made it stick and c) passed Hamilton today? Would he had come on the radio to ask for permission, or he would have simply made a move, fair and skilled-fully?

I think that he would do the same as Rosberg. Now, had you ask the same question twenty years ago, I could see his mind being closer to Vettel.

[spacekid]

We have evidence of Schuey moving over for team mates for the good of the team. Is there any evidence at all that he would not have done the same as Nico?

We also have evidence that Michael benefited from team orders, and was clearly highly embarrassed about the whole thing. And my god has he copped a lot of **** from some of you for that. When another driver gets the rub of team orders and is embarrassed about it, the whole board says what a class act. Funny thing.

[Sakae]

We have evidence of Schuey moving over for team mates for the good of the team. Is there any evidence at all that he would not have done the same as Nico?

We also have evidence that Michael benefited from team orders, and was clearly highly embarrassed about the whole thing. And my god has he copped a lot of **** from some of you for that. When another driver gets the rub of team orders and is embarrassed about it, the whole board says what a class act. Funny thing.

I concur.

[Ghostrider]

Remember 99 when Schuey came back after injury and helped Irvine? No problems.

[sharo]

Your "Auf Wiedersehen Mercedes OMG" seems to be reciprocated by the Mercedes F1 Team. We see them again in 2013 - stronger than ever before....

You simply don't get the meaning, my friend. I know it's worth nothing but they don't have my support anymore. Even less after yesterday. I felt very sorry for Nico, who worked for three long years with the hope that one day the effort will pay back with a car he (and Schu) deserved. Only to find that all those efforts are for the benefit of another man.

[lemikox]

Nope.

Ralf Schumacher would have finished in 14th position. He was a bad driver, like my english.

[BigCHrome]

Schumi would've been 20sec down the road, he never would've even had the choice. Whenever the car was working he was nowhere near Rosberg.

[spacekid]

Schumi would've been 20sec down the road, he never would've even had the choice. Whenever the car was working he was nowhere near Rosberg.

Please tell me, in your own words, how Malaysia worked out last year for the Mercedes drivers.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

k
Schumi would've been 20sec down the road, he never would've even had the choice. Whenever the car was working he was nowhere near Rosberg.

Probably DNF'd like Nico was during Melbourne 2013........

[baddog]

Michael ALWAYS did his job for the team, whether it suited him or not, and anyone who suggests otherwise is being silly.

[schubacca]

The proof shows that MS DID do what is best for the team. He did this in his first career.

He also did it in his second, when NR deserved priority.

All of this "MS would disobey team orders because of a podium" are arguments and hypotheticals from individuals who want to discount actual facts because they want to feebly demonize MS.

MS has given away more wins than others than actually won in their entire career.

[BigCHrome]

Going back to the question, I don't think Malaysia 99 is a valid example because Schumacher was out of the WDC and Irvine still had a very good chance to win it. Nevertheless, Schumi was a total team player and he would've obeyed the teams wishes. He has too much class to do something as pathetic as what Vettel did.

Please tell me, in your own words, how Malaysia worked out last year for the Mercedes drivers.

I can tell you that Rosberg was half a second faster in China (when the car worked well, which was my point).

[LiJu914]

Going back to the question, I don't think Malaysia 99 is a valid example because Schumacher was out of the WDC and Irvine still had a very good chance to win it. Nevertheless, Schumi was a total team player and he would've obeyed the teams wishes. He has too much class to do something as pathetic as what Vettel did.



I can tell you that Rosberg was half a second faster in China (when the car worked well, which was my point).

The car worked also well in Monaco. Guess, who got Pole and might have won without a penalty and a DNF?

[aliasj]

And again, since everybody is missing the clue :/

This is surprising, I was thinking about it already today. What springs to mind is this: Malaysia 1999, Brazil 2002, Monza 2003, Brazil 2010. In all cased Schumacher stepped aside for the team and his teammate. I suspect this is a no-brainer after all, have a good feeling he would have stayed back but maybe made a stronger case for himself over the team radio.

exactly! that's whole premise of my question too. i think Schumi would have made it stick, or at least made more of an effort.

[aliasj]

Not sure why the OP even brought up Schumacher.

Because Schumacher drove for Mercedes and was teammates with Nico. Same machinery, etc.

He's not the person that comes to mind when I'm thinking of disregard for explicit agreements and team orders. Schumi is a man of his word who doesn't behave in hypocritical and short-sighted "do me a favor but I won't do you any" manner. Always been a team player.

Agree with you.

Schumacher I and II whatever other fantasmical variety he exists.

Schumacher II was nicer.

That leaves us only to conclude that the OP brought him up just 'cause he's one of the plenty garden variety racist Limey bigots here who hate Germans.

Refer to above.

[aliasj]

Going back to the question, I don't think Malaysia 99 is a valid example because Schumacher was out of the WDC and Irvine still had a very good chance to win it. Nevertheless, Schumi was a total team player and he would've obeyed the teams wishes. He has too much class to do something as pathetic as what Vettel did.



I can tell you that Rosberg was half a second faster in China (when the car worked well, which was my point).

Rosberg was always 0.5-0.6s faster than Schumacher in China (2010, 2011, 2012), and its 100% down to that stupid 360 degree bent teaspoon curve turn 1. Schumacher could never get his car through there fast enough, with the new generation tires, cars. Rosberg was generally faster than Schumacher through the slow, long, boring Tilke 2nd gear bends. Schumacher was faster through the very fast, high skill, high bravery required bends.

[aliasj]

The moment I saw Rosberg going for it in the first DRS Zone just to be re-taken in the second DRS Zone made me think that this is the difference between the fast drivers and the champions. Schumacher would have made that stick by being smart enough to be just behind Hamilton at the second detection point. I just could not believe it it was so obvious.

After being told to hold position he would have done so. He was always pro team order and he showed it many times on track that he will obey them too.

exactly! that's whole premise of my question too. i think Schumi would have made it stick, or at least made more of an effort. Nico made a couple of attempts, couldn't make it stick, then i think came on the radio to ask for a pass.

[britishtrident]

Most the above post assume Schumacher would (1) Have got through Q2, (2) Have not destroyed his tyres (3) Be near enough Hamilton to challenge him, based on his previous form in the (attempted) comeback years taking a very generous view he might just have manage two out of three.

As it was we had a chance to see a German driver Rosberg lay down his mark against Hamilton and doing it in way that contrasted with Vettel's red mist pass of his team mate.

[Lelouch]

Most the above post assume Schumacher would (1) Have got through Q2, (2) Have not destroyed his tyres (3) Be near enough Hamilton to challenge him, based on his previous form in the (attempted) comeback years taking a very generous view he might just have manage two out of three.

As it was we had a chance to see a German driver Rosberg lay down his mark against Hamilton and doing it in way that contrasted with Vettel's red mist pass of his team mate.

Well, about 2) I would say it has to do with the car and tyres and the W04 seems to behaving much better than the W03 in that aspect. So it would have been possible.
As for 3) even if you believe that Schumacher wouldn't be able to match Hamilton's race pace in general, in Malaysia had the fuel problem so 3) would have been possible too.
As for 1) I still don't get why Rosberg went all out at the back straight while Hamilton was probably lifting, in order to complete the pass at the s/f straight.

Bottom line: If he was at the same position I believe he would have made it stick (probably the second time) and I'm still somewhat disappointed that Rosberg couldn't figure it out (otherwise his race performance would have been a 10 for me).

[RichardF1fan]

Schumacher would have followed instructions, certainly old Schumacher would, I think younger schumacher probably would based on historical evidence or if he didn't then he and Hammy would have raced flat out till they both ran out of fuel. I don't think Hammy would have missed the chance to have a wheel to wheel race with him in the same machinery.

Also I don't think Schumacher would have made the mistake of playing tag in the DRS zones.

Edited by RichardF1fan, 26 March 2013 - 11:26.