476 replies to this topic

[schumimercamg]

It must be said that as a Schumi fan, his return was painful for the majority of the time.

However seeing Nico match Lewis it has dawned on me that he is clearly very very quick.

Should we now look at Schumacher's return in a more positive light given that the old man was usually quicker in terms of race pace?

I'd be interested to know your thoughts, both Schumi haters and fans.

[Kingshark]

Imagine how much faster Michael would be than Lewis in the rain.

On a more serious note, I agree that the better Rosberg performs against Hamilton, in the better light Schumacher's return will be viewed.

Although it's a shameful thing that in only his 2nd race for Mercedes, Lewis has achieved something that took Michael a hard-working 46 races to do!

[One]

Schumacher was absolutely disaster after come back.

[iakhtar]

Just being competitive with the field at his age was impressive enough. Shame Mercedes let him down last season though.

[Jimisgod]

Imagine how much faster Michael would be than Lewis in the rain.

On a more serious note, I agree that the better Rosberg performs against Hamilton, in the better light Schumacher's return will be viewed.

Although it's a shameful thing that in only his 2nd race for Mercedes, Lewis has achieved something that took Michael a hard-working 46 races to do!

It took Rosberg ~40 races to do what Schumi couldn't do at Merc

Whatever happens people will still talk down Rosberg unless he comfortably beats Lewis, which seems more unlikely. Especially with Brawn on the radio.

Car looks capable of wins, but never put it past BranGP / Merc to go down the wrong mid-year development path.

Edited by Jimisgod, 24 March 2013 - 19:40.

[schumimercamg]

Imagine how much faster Michael would be than Lewis in the rain.

On a more serious note, I agree that the better Rosberg performs against Hamilton, in the better light Schumacher's return will be viewed.

Although it's a shameful thing that in only his 2nd race for Mercedes, Lewis has achieved something that took Michael a hard-working 46 races to do!

I think the car might have something to do with that no?

[Sakae]

Just being competitive with the field at his age was impressive enough. Shame Mercedes let him down last season though.

Last three seasons, IMO, not just the last one.

[ZooL]

It's too early to say, its race 2 for Lewis and the car is not developed to his liking yet.

Judge at the end of the season.

[sharo]

Too early for conclusions.

[RaikkonenZn]

We'll never know for sure since it we never saw how both of them do in a quick car. It still remains that when the car was quick(Chinese 2012) Nico was matching him and then eventually outqualified him. Who knows what would've happened in the race though.

If there was anything that stood out to me in Michaels return, it was the fact that he never seemed to hit any spectacular heights or had a race that was amazing(his podium was good on fresh tyres but not more than that). I concede that his car was slower than many of his rivals though.

Now Nico matching Lewis could just be the extra motivation of wanting to beat Lewis.

[Masenco]

We have to wait and see how much faster lewis gets withs respect to nico once he settles in a bit more, but right now schumi's performance against nico does look impressive.

[Longtimefan]

Schumachers luck was absolutely disastrous after come back.

Fixed

Edited by Longtimefan, 24 March 2013 - 20:11.

[aditya-now]

Although it's a shameful thing that in only his 2nd race for Mercedes, Lewis has achieved something that took Michael a hard-working 46 races to do!

In fact Lewis at Mercedes shows how obsolete and outdated Schumacher was. It is not only that it took Lewis only 2 races to reach the podium for which Michael needed 46 races. The even more telling sign that Michael was past it was how much energy waves Lewis' arrival in the team send through Brackley, whereas Schumi's presence somehow did nothing to motivate them in any special way. Schumi was like old coffeee - the special taste had evaporated long before.

[Massa_f1]

Too early to say, and I would prefer not think to much about it. The last 3 years were painful enough. What I do know is Lewis and Nico have a much better car than Mercedes ended last season with. The first few rounds of 2012 Schumacher was challenging for podiums also, only to have fails by the team and car.

[rallye3]

In fact Lewis at Mercedes shows how obsolete and outdated Schumacher was. It is not only that it took Lewis only 2 races to reach the podium for which Michael needed 46 races. The even more telling sign that Michael was past it was how much energy waves Lewis' arrival in the team send through Brackley, whereas Schumi's presence somehow did nothing to motivate them in any special way. Schumi was like old coffeee - the special taste had evaporated long before.

Nothing to do with the car then?. Just the sheer brilliance of Lewis I suppose.

[Freung]

Nothing to do with the car then?. Just the sheer brilliance of Lewis I suppose.

no,,i'd imagine it's a bit more complex than that. ...but you will need to connect a few dots along the way..---

[sharo]

In fact Lewis at Mercedes shows how obsolete and outdated Schumacher was. It is not only that it took Lewis only 2 races to reach the podium for which Michael needed 46 races. The even more telling sign that Michael was past it was how much energy waves Lewis' arrival in the team send through Brackley, whereas Schumi's presence somehow did nothing to motivate them in any special way. Schumi was like old coffeee - the special taste had evaporated long before.

Never giving up, eh?

[pingu666]

i think its because there was a doubt about how good/fast the old paring was, and putting lewis in maybe a big motivator, if your not contending for the win with lewis, well then the cars not good enough.

but given how well nico has matched up this year, yeah schumi mk2 does look better...

[Longtimefan]

In fact Lewis at Mercedes shows how obsolete and outdated Schumacher was. It is not only that it took Lewis only 2 races to reach the podium for which Michael needed 46 races. The even more telling sign that Michael was past it was how much energy waves Lewis' arrival in the team send through Brackley, whereas Schumi's presence somehow did nothing to motivate them in any special way. Schumi was like old coffeee - the special taste had evaporated long before.

Yeah because the W01-03 were sooooooooo good!

Not sure if you're trolling or just well.. you know

[Jejking]

In fact Lewis at Mercedes shows how obsolete and outdated Schumacher was. It is not only that it took Lewis only 2 races to reach the podium for which Michael needed 46 races. The even more telling sign that Michael was past it was how much energy waves Lewis' arrival in the team send through Brackley, whereas Schumi's presence somehow did nothing to motivate them in any special way. Schumi was like old coffeee - the special taste had evaporated long before.

That's why Rosberg, who was outperformed in 2012, was hot on the heels of Hamilton all the time during the last grand prix. Good to know you're still alive and kicking the same old lame drums as before

[FastnLoud]

It must be said that as a Schumi fan, his return was painful for the majority of the time.

However seeing Nico match Lewis it has dawned on me that he is clearly very very quick.

Should we now look at Schumacher's return in a more positive light given that the old man was usually quicker in terms of race pace?

I'd be interested to know your thoughts, both Schumi haters and fans.

Nic has always been very very quick, this isn't new because he is matching Lewis. He has always had the speed.

[DutchCruijff]

Schumacher > Nico in 2012. And Nico is equalling Hamilton in 2013.

Quite obvious that Schumacher would have been able to match Hamilton. I always maintained that the guy was still a tier above Massa/Webber/Button and the only drivers definitively better than him were Alonso & Vettel.

[LiJu914]

Too early for conclusions.

+1

[cutchemist42]

2011 Canadian GP showed what Michal was capable of in equalizing rain conditions still. Guy was within 5 seconds of Vettel until the FIA brought out a safety car for conditions that could still be raced in.

If Schumacher had a reliable car at the start last year, he likely would have had 3-4 podiums that year.

[harris]

Well...there's the brake issues , lack of reliabilty and tyre deg. All sorted now so I guess the return was a fail

[kosmic33]

Schumacher > Nico in 2012. And Nico is equalling Hamilton in 2013.

Nico - 1 win & 93 points
Schumacher - 0 wins & 49 points.

hmmmmm

[schumimercamg]

Nico - 1 win & 93 points
Schumacher - 0 wins & 49 points.

hmmmmm

What a strange and moronic post.

This thread is for opinions so just stating some facts that dont accurately convey the season is not going to fly.

[LiJu914]

Nico - 1 win & 93 points
Schumacher - 0 wins & 49 points.

hmmmmm

I´m quite sure, Hamilton fans won´t use points as an accurate measure for driver performances considering the total amount of points of Hamilton compared to Button between 2010 and 2012.

[scheivlak]

This thread is for opinions so just stating some facts that dont accurately convey the season is not going to fly.

Sometimes it's pretty handy if you can support an opinion with a few facts.

Points certainly don't tell the whole story but factfree opinions don't have much impact, generally speaking.

Edited by scheivlak, 24 March 2013 - 22:47.

[kosmic33]

Sometimes it's pretty handy if you can support an opinion with a few facts.

Points certainly don't tell the whole story but factfree opinions don't have much impact, generally speaking.

Exactly.
Simply stating that schumacher>rosberg with no reasoning to back this up is moronic.
I used the single greatest method of comparison between racing drivers, success, to show that in my opinion Rosberg was almost twice as successful as Schumacher last year.
The same way Schumacher fans trot out the same old 7 titles stat when claiming that their crash king is the greatest of all time

[schumimercamg]

Exactly.
Simply stating that schumacher>rosberg with no reasoning to back this up is moronic.
I used the single greatest method of comparison between racing drivers, success, to show that in my opinion Rosberg was almost twice as successful as Schumacher last year.
The same way Schumacher fans trot out the same old 7 titles stat when claiming that their crash king is the greatest of all time

Well then choose which you want instead of being a hippocrit.

You can't use your stats argument and then deny that Schumi is the best ever. I think you're confused.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Schumacher this time last year had a competitve car too.....except he had 5 out of 7 DNFs.

Then the team just went AWOL Valencia onwards. Schumi outscored Nico once his bad streak finished and showd who was the better driver during their last races together including LAPPING Nico at Brazil despite being 44 seconds behind a HRT at one point.

His comeback was awful but he was the equal of Nico. Not bad for a cheating washed up ols has been eh?

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Nico - 1 win & 93 points
Schumacher - 0 wins & 49 points.

hmmmmm

Button outscored Hamilton over 3 years.

Button = all time greatest?????

Button > Hamilton > Alonso > Vettel > Senna > Schumacher???? Can it really be???

Can it really be that you have just solved F1's greatest question???

[aditya-now]

Never giving up, eh?

Any Schumacher thread is a blessing for us: we all can present once again our opinions, no matter on which side of the fence we sit!

[Seanspeed]

the old man was usually quicker in terms of race pace?

He was not. Schumacher more or less matched Rosberg in 2012 in the races, but before that, it was only occasionally.

So far, Lewis has outqualified Rosberg twice and beaten him in the race once. Its very early still, but I think Lewis has probably been the more impressive teammate so far.

[aditya-now]

Yeah because the W01-03 were sooooooooo good!

Not sure if you're trolling or just well.. you know

No trolling, just my opinion. You have obviously not read the second part of my statement - the advent of Lewis Hamilton has sent energy waves through Brackley in a way that Schumacher's did not - and of course, it is not only Lewis' coming, but also the energy and decisiveness that Niki Lauda and Toto Wolf put in. The team is moving - finally!

[iakhtar]

Exactly.
Simply stating that schumacher>rosberg with no reasoning to back this up is moronic.
I used the single greatest method of comparison between racing drivers, success, to show that in my opinion Rosberg was almost twice as successful as Schumacher last year.
The same way Schumacher fans trot out the same old 7 titles stat when claiming that their crash king is the greatest of all time

So by your own logic, MSC is the greatest of all time according to stats. Well done, nice shooting yourself in the foot.

[Diablobb81]

No trolling, just my opinion. You have obviously not read the second part of my statement - the advent of Lewis Hamilton has sent energy waves through Brackley in a way that Schumacher's did not - and of course, it is not only Lewis' coming, but also the energy and decisiveness that Niki Lauda and Toto Wolf put in. The team is moving - finally!

Yes, the magical energy waves that made the car better and fixed the suspension and the tire understanding etc.

Hilarious.

[tkulla]

As to the OP's question... no, it's too early in the Hamilton vs. Rosberg battle to give any context to Schumacher 2.0. At the end of the year if Nico beats Lewis it will definitely make me think differently about how well the old guy (we're the same age) did, especially in 2012.

To me, though, the most important part of MS2.0 was that he was more human and accessible than in his first career, so I liked him much more.

[Muz Bee]

IS it a peculiarly German trait to repeat a lie (e.g. Schumacher spanked Rosberg through 2012) enough times and people will accept it as a fact? Somehow the loyal hordes would not let even the best informed, seasoned F1 scribes have a bar of it, let alone allow the facts to speak for themselves. Fact is Michael was rubbish and wasn't on a steep learning curve at 43, no teams wanted him on their payroll, nobody was surprised to see the door close. At least the confirmation for the faithful Rosberg followers like me that Nico in fact is a top level GP driver puts Michael's last term in a better light and that he was probably at a level of say, a Jarno Trulli aged 30 something. No mean feat at the age of 43 it must be said.

[Yellowmc]

It's far too early to say anything concrete. Lewis is only in his 2nd race with Mercedes and he's more than likely to pick up more speed as he begins to understand and work with the team.

Having said that, I always thought that Michael was very quick and both he and Nico are outstanding drivers, let down by a poor car. Michael in this Mercedes would be in the exact same position, if not better.

[scheivlak]

IS it a peculiarly German trait to repeat a lie (e.g. Schumacher spanked Rosberg through 2012) enough times and people will accept it as a fact?

I think it's pretty much universal.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

IS it a peculiarly German trait to repeat a lie (e.g. Schumacher spanked Rosberg through 2012) enough times and people will accept it as a fact? Somehow the loyal hordes would not let even the best informed, seasoned F1 scribes have a bar of it, let alone allow the facts to speak for themselves. Fact is Michael was rubbish and wasn't on a steep learning curve at 43, no teams wanted him on their payroll, nobody was surprised to see the door close. At least the confirmation for the faithful Rosberg followers like me that Nico in fact is a top level GP driver puts Michael's last term in a better light and that he was probably at a level of say, a Jarno Trulli aged 30 something. No mean feat at the age of 43 it must be said.

Is it also a British trait to say that Nico spanked Schumi during 2012?

For me the best measure was towards the end.....in their last races together where IMO Schumacher was much stronger than Nico.

Overall in 2012 and the majority of 2011 they were equals. Not bad for a washed up old has been eh?

[Sakae]

I´m quite sure, Hamilton fans won´t use points as an accurate measure for driver performances considering the total amount of points of Hamilton compared to Button between 2010 and 2012.

Misinformation is already out; "Brawn gave a nod to his faster driver, and issued team orders...", states one.

Last time I look, Hamilton, for whatever reasons, was actually slower to Rosberg in crucial moment, but that matters little to Hamilton's fans.

Edited by Sakae, 24 March 2013 - 23:55.

[kosmic33]

Well then choose which you want instead of being a hippocrit.

You can't use your stats argument and then deny that Schumi is the best ever. I think you're confused.

I never said he wasn't the greatest of all time though!
I said rosberg got the better of him last season.

And it's spelt hypocrite.....

[aliasj]

I´m quite sure, Hamilton fans won´t use points as an accurate measure for driver performances considering the total amount of points of Hamilton compared to Button between 2010 and 2012.

Exactly! Thanks for pointing that out. Some people always use the facts when it suits them, and ignore them when it doesn't.

[DutchCruijff]

Nico - 1 win & 93 points
Schumacher - 0 wins & 49 points.

hmmmmm

Well you clearly didn't see last season. Schumacher got the better of him despite the set-backs and crap he had to encounter, points tally does not tell the full story.

[Watkins74]

2 races = insufficient data

[Meanbeakin]

I think at least one thing that is clear is that Rosberg is no slouch. Whether he can get close to or match Lewis over a whole season will be interesting but it at least now seems possible. And if he does, then yes it does flatter Schumacher quite a lot more.

[rt99]

Does anyone else feel robbed that schumacher wouldn't race against Rosberg's quality when he had the vastly superior Ferrari? One man races were so boring back then.