293 replies to this topic

[Brother Fox]

A clear and calculated breach of team orders, not a split second decision - how many teams would stand for that? Or more so, want to take on someone who shows so little regard for the teams wishes?
For mine it's not an error of judgement, it's a window into his personality.

I'd imagine that Ferrari don't care for that too much. Similar for the other big guys that get to pick the cream of talent (McLaren/Lotus/Merc). We saw clearly that Merc would expect the same as Red Bull.

Would these teams be willing to have a loose canon just because he's quick?

I can't help but think with the often talked about move to Ferrari it would be interesting to know what the guys in red think

[mymemoryfails]

I wouldn't let him near anything of mine. can't be trusted. dishonest.

good driver but one day he's gonna wake up with all his trophies and wonder who he is

mymemoryfails

[dans79]

If anything it shows, what I have always suspected about Vettel, that he is a spoiled child, who lucked into the best ride in F1. Personally I think it's only a matter of time before his personality, gets himself or someone else seriously injured.

[InvertedLift]

A clear and calculated breach of team orders, not a split second decision - how many teams would stand for that? Or more so, want to take on someone who shows so little regard for the teams wishes?
For mine it's not an error of judgement, it's a window into his personality.

I'd imagine that Ferrari don't care for that too much. Similar for the other big guys that get to pick the cream of talent (McLaren/Lotus/Merc). We saw clearly that Merc would expect the same as Red Bull.

Would these teams be willing to have a loose canon just because he's quick?

I can't help but think with the often talked about move to Ferrari it would be interesting to know what the guys in red think

Why would any of the top teams bother?

Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus aren't going to get an upgrade on their best driver by getting Vettel. Maybe when Alonso goes things will change for Ferrari.

Those 3 need Newey, not Vettel.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I doubt it, as long as he's a good driver. He has the negotiating power, that's why he did what he did today. You can get away with a lot of **** if you're one of the best. If sabotaging the entire team didn't make Alonso less attractive, ignoring a team order wouldn't make Vettel less attractive. If Vettel were fired tomorrow, he's be choosing from at least half a dozen offers a day from tomorrow.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 25 March 2013 - 03:55.

[mymemoryfails]

I doubt it, as long as he's a good driver. He has the negotiating power, that's why he did what he did today. You can get away with a lot of **** if you're one of the best. If sabotaging the entire team didn't make Alonso less attractive, ignoring a team order wouldn't make Vettel less attractive. If Vettel were fired tomorrow, he's be choosing from at least half a dozen offers a day from tomorrow.

From.....?

mymemoryfails

[pingu666]

it makes him less attractive, but not sure by how much

your probably looking at less money/more pr days than a hire/not hire thing. a concern for the smaller teams would be he can be average if the car has some certain types of bad handling

[goldenboy]

Probably not really.

[Lotusseven]

Yes, unfortunately I think Vettel has damaged his personal brand somewhat yesterday.

[Szoelloe]

No. Not at all.

[Vesuvius]

No, why would it?he is three time world champion (at the moment) ...drivers like Alonso have done similar things and everyone wants him to their team so answer is a big no.

[DarthWillie]

Alonso has shown it doesn't matter.

[pusko]

He is one of the best...no doubt. But to disobey the whole team...that's just not ok.

[apoka]

If a team wants to hire him as #1, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

If he goes to a team with no team orders, it also doesn't make that much of a difference.

In other cases, it depends on what can be learned from yesterday. He usually learns from mistakes, but let's see.

[Oho]

Probably not really.

Indeed, he is probably perceived good enough to survive almost any **** storm like Alonso in the wake of 2007.

Well quite a few people beat me to it.

Edited by Oho, 25 March 2013 - 07:20.

[kenkip]

Yesterday was a window to his personality?I call BS.Vettel is a racing driver,and once those five red lights go out,racing instincts take over and I believe those instincts differ in drivers.He had a judgement call to make yesterday,unfortunately he made the wrong one in hindsight but surely saying it is a window into his personality?
I know you guys wont accept this but judging some one on only one incident is preety childish,especialy since Webber has also ignored team orders in the past but that has been conviniently forgoten.
Seb has realised he was wrong,and apologised for it.I found the apology sincire because if you read what some scibes tweeted the Rebull PR people were not given a chance to talk to him.Thats the most he could do,now its up for Webber to accept it.If you ask me that has shown HIS personality more,ready to accept a mistake like a man and take it on the chin.And Vettel has accepted various mistakes before you jump on me,SPA 2010 to Button,2009 Australia on Kubica,2007 Fuji on Webber himself.
Calling him out on yesterdays anticts is a tad rich IMHO.

[Dalton007]

3x WDC? He has all the power.

So if he breached team rules? He has delivered consistent performances and PUMMELED his team-mate into submission. Webber looked like a broken man, annihilated by the Austrian.

[MikeV1987]

You are kidding yourself if you think his stock has gone down.

[prty]

3x WDC? He has all the power.

Well, depends where most of his 3xWDCs came from - the car or the driver. And the answer is pretty clear.

[OO7]

You are kidding yourself if you think his stock has gone down.

In some ways his stock may actually have gone up.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 25 March 2013 - 11:52.

[Oho]

Well, depends where most of his 3xWDCs came from - the car or the driver.

http://en.wikipedia....i/False_dilemma

[Tarzaan]

If the other team want Seb as a N2 driver, the ansewr is Yes.

If the other team want to win WDC, the ansewr is No.

[maverick69]

We all know what went on yesterday - and we all have our opinions on it.

One of the big questions for me to come out of his whole event is the affect it has had on Vettel's image - both outside of the sport and inside of the sport (not least within his own team).

He has for a very long time been the golden boy of the media: Excellent at working the room, close to Bernie, projecting a very happy-go-lucky demeanor, and a extremely successful racing driver to boot. But has the events of Sepang, which included the very public "Get him out of the way" outbust caused a major dent...... or conversely enhanced his image by cementing him as a ruthless racer just like a lot of the greats?

From a personal point of view I think he has defiantly taken, at the very least, a short-term hit - and left Sepang with a lot less admirers both internally and externally.

Edited by maverick69, 25 March 2013 - 10:18.

[mnmracer]

Considering Webber has only gotten more appreciated since Silverstone 2011, it will enhance his image.
Oh wait... I forgot the hypocritical double standard...

[Jackmancer]

I like some drama in F1. It's like a soap for men.

I never liked Vettel cause I felt he was a bit of a boring character. I think he's still a little lying crybaby but at least he's less boring now. I'd actually start to like him if he was just honest on the podium and said 'well Mark, I was faster and I overtook you. Yes I did it on purpose, of course I did it on purpose'.

Senna never really lied about crashing into Prost at Suzuka.

[mnmracer]

Considering Ferrari showed interest in Webber last year, anyone with a brain knows the answer to this question is no.

[choyothe]

During the race: Enhanced.

After the race: Taken a hit.

If only he didn't apologize...

[MikeV1987]

I gained respect for Vettel after that race.

[mnmracer]

If only he didn't apologize...

That I agree on.
Out of the car, he is still just an insecure 25 year old.

[JRizzle86]

Not sure really how this could enhance his image.

[Dalton007]

Well, depends where most of his 3xWDCs came from - the car or the driver. And the answer is pretty clear.

So why hasn't Webber won any WDCs?

[rasul]

It's hard to say. I know quite a few F1 fans who didn't care for Vettel, calling him 'a little boy' and so on, but who admired him for what he did yesterday, praising his ruthlessness and killer instinct.

Though, generally, I expect him to be booed. But then again, it would be nothing new for him. I've got to say you have to admire this kid that he doesn't let the critique affect his driving. He's quite strong mentally.

[Gene and Tonic]

Enhances his image for specific people inside and looking in on the sport. Shows he is ruthless, an uncompromising winner. He has 3 world titles, Webber has none. We just saw one reason why.

Outside the sport? Taken a huge hit in England certainly, all my friends have been texting me to slag him off

[AustinF1]

His image has taken a blow. Not a fatal one, but a blow nonetheless...both inside and outside of motorsport. I've seen many tweets already from race drivers slamming him over this. They know he was wrong.

Is he still an attractive commodity based on sheer talent? Of course. Just a bit less attractive now that potential employers have to wonder if he'll do what he's told at critical moments, or arrogantly ignore them.

[Markn93]

Thought Brundle's comments on this post race, on Sky, were very interesting.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Schumacher, Alonso and Senna were just as ruthless and they were coveted by other leading top teams.

Is Vettel as good as those guys though? History will tell us, but I don't think he is, not yet anyway.

[apoka]

Maybe a short term hit, but it could actually help him in the long run depending on what he and the people around him learn from it.

[Jackmancer]

Thought Brundle's comments on this post race, on Sky, were very interesting.

What where his comments?

[Meanbeakin]

It won't help it put it that way. The next time he goes to Albert Park will be interesting.

I don't think the comparisons to Silverstone 2011 are exactly right either. Whilst Mark was wrong for challenging Vettel that day, in the end he did hold position, and you can see from the onboard he could've overtaken him.

Edited by Meanbeakin, 25 March 2013 - 10:09.

[Slackbladder]

To be honest it's probably just going to reinforce what you thought of him before hand:

Either you can take away that he's a 'win at all costs' guy and respect him for it, or that he's a talented cry-baby who wants everything handed to him and isn't a team player.

I know personally which camp I'm in, but eh...

[gillesthegenius]

I think its taken a bit of a blow, atleast in the short run. But when his career is, god willing, done and dusted, this might, god willing, be highlited to show what a fighter he is.

[PaulTodd]

I already think it's taken a hit before any of this kicked off just because of the position he is in. Nobody (unless your a fan) wants a driver to have a dominant car and go on to win so many championships. I did not mind it so much with Schumacher because he was the best driver and proved it along the way from 1994-2004.

But some people feel Vettel has been hyped up because of his achievements in a car that is the class of the field and it wont go away until he wins outside of redbull. And for what happened on the weekend, well he has hardly made himself look like the darling of moment did he

[Meanbeakin]

I think its taken a bit of a blow, atleast in the short run. But when his career is, god willing, done and dusted, this might, god willing, be highlited to show what a fighter he is.

Well, at the end of the day Schumacher's controversies are footnotes to his career, what he's most remembered for is his 7 world championships and 91 race victories.

Ditto Senna isn't remembered for his controversial moments as much as he is being one of the best drivers in the history of F1.

[G_Walter]

Not sure really how this could enhance his image.

Of course it does because it proves he's a 'real racer' blah, blah

First he bleats to his team about getting his teammate to move over for him...
Then pounces after his teammate is told to effectively enter cruise mode...

All 'real racer' stuff

Edited by G_Walter, 25 March 2013 - 10:12.

[windtravels]

During the race: Enhanced.

After the race: Taken a hit.

If only he didn't apologize...

This. Stick by your actions.

His wimpy squirmy fake apology was the worst.

[mnmracer]

I don't think the comparisons to Silverstone 2011 are exactly right either. Whilst Mark was wrong for challenging Vettel that day, in the end he did hold position, and you can see from the onboard he could've overtaken him.

Mark himself said he didn't want or try to hold position.
At least own up to reality.

[AustinF1]

Of course it does because it proves he's a 'real racer' blah, blah

First he bleats to his team about getting his teammate to move over for him...
Then pounces after his teammate is told to effectively enter cruise mode...

All 'real racer' stuff

Ha! Indeed.

[AustinF1]

It was only ever enhanced in the eyes of those not paying attention to or willingly ignoring the circumstances of Vettel's overtake on Webber.

[choyothe]

It won't help it put it that way. The next time he goes to Albert Park will be interesting.

I don't think the comparisons to Silverstone 2011 are exactly right either. Whilst Mark was wrong for challenging Vettel that day, in the end he did hold position, and you can see from the onboard he could've overtaken him.

False. Mark himself stated that he ignored and tried to get past, but just couldn't.

Well, at the end of the day Schumacher's controversies are footnotes to his career, what he's most remembered for is his 7 world championships and 91 race victories.

Ditto Senna isn't remembered for his controversial moments as much as he is being one of the best drivers in the history of F1.

A lot more people remember Schumachers controversies than Sennas, for the simple reason that Senna died.

Edited by choyothe, 25 March 2013 - 10:20.

[mnmracer]

So why hasn't Webber won any WDCs?

Or finished 2nd even just once.