293 replies to this topic

[toroRosso]

Hope he never learns.

Be more mindful, almost bothered giving u a one star

[rijole1]

I'd be surprised if he didn't get a call from Maranello last night.

It's already a done deal.......*

* IMHO of course

About some here saying that those who liked Vettel - like him now more.
I don't, I even updated my profile and took away his name.

[dans79]

He´s right, that Mark increased his pace after SV´s radio message though.

no he is wrong, and i just re played the DVR to make sure

lap 26 - gap entering turn 1. 0.361
lap 27 - gap entering turn 1. 0.344 - part way through turn 1 Mark is told to target high 41's
lap 28 - gap entering turn 1. 0.686 - in turns 5 and 6 Seb complains mark is to slow, entering turn 15 Seb is told to chill out as he still has half a race to go
lap 29 - gap entering turn 1. 1.256
lap 30 - gap entering turn 1. 1.741

My point still stands if Mark was so slow, and Vettel was much faster why didn't finger boy just pass him?

[dans79]

Ugh, you can't even come up with a decent counter argument to that. That is how it happened.

Why should I argue with someone who is wrong.....

[LiJu914]

no he is wrong, and i just re played the DVR to make sure

lap 26 - gap entering turn 1. 0.361
lap 27 - gap entering turn 1. 0.344 - part way through turn 1 Mark is told to target high 41's
lap 28 - gap entering turn 1. 0.686 - in turns 5 and 6 Seb complains mark is to slow, entering turn 15 Seb is told to chill out as he still has half a race to go
lap 29 - gap entering turn 1. 1.256
lap 30 - gap entering turn 1. 1.741

Which shows, that he´s right.

[Ricardo F1]

Oh, and there is Canada 2011... No worries, I guess they kept it pretty clean.

Really? A case where one driver didn't actually see the guy over taking him because of spray? REALLY?

[Kyo]

Be more mindful, almost bothered giving u a one star ;)

Any driver that "learns" to stay put and not fight for a victory is a driver that I have no interest in watch racing.

[dans79]

Which shows, that he´s right.

ummm no, read how he ordered the events, they are not correct.

You've got things the other way around.
FIRST Vettel got the teamorder not to overtake Webber.
SECOND because of that teamorder and Webber driving 'too slow', he was falling into the clutches of Hamilton.
THIRD Vettel told the team to get him out of this mess they put him in (not allowed to overtake, but because of that, being overtaken)
FOURTH Webber 'pulled a gap'

For the record, that gap was ~1.5 seconds. Hardly a 'gap'.

[Brother Fox]

I'm not even going to read through the replies because I'm sure they'd make no sense. You have a three-time-running WDC and you wouldn't want him on your team? If you answered "no" then you are a clueless individual or just don't like Vettel. The man goes seriously fast in an F1 car and has proven he is one of the best in the business. Every F1 team would like to have him.

I think you got confused with the question then ....

[choyothe]

Really? A case where one driver didn't actually see the guy over taking him because of spray? REALLY?

Yes, really. Didn't know Hamilton and Button were so poor drivers that they needed excuses like that.

ummm no, read how he ordered the events, they are not correct.

Seems correct to me. Unless you're being an idiot and seeing the gap go from .3 to .6, as if that is any proof of Mark getting away from him already.

[Shiroo]

answering on topic question. Yes teams might think twice now, you prefer to have a driver that will at least listen to you.

[indian]

My point still stands if Mark was so slow, and Vettel was much faster why didn't finger boy just pass him?

Maybe because he was told to chill out as he still had half a race to go?

[PMM3]

A guy who ignores what the team wants, who's ego to win is bigger than the team finishing 1-2, doesn't listen to the team manager, and has no interest in what his race engineer tells him; is certainly not a type of driver many teams would be keen to have.

This guy you describe has been driving a Ferrari for the last 3 years....so you cant be right.

[docronzo]

Depends on what the team is looking for. If the team is looking for a beta male, mediocre race driver, a clear number two then Vettel is probably the wrong choice. If you want to have a legend then go for Vettel. It's clear that FERRARI is the only team Vettel will move to. FERRARI's strategy always was to have a clearly determined driver hierarchy. So this will probably work out well for both of them. No values lost here.

[MikeV1987]

http://www.gpupdate....nstinct-berger/

[NeilR]

Vettel seems to be the least liked world champion I have seen. That said his value would be more damaged by his lying than his driving.

[docronzo]

This is an international forum. I'm fed up with the phony british gentleman racing attitude here. Stop bashing racing legends!

[MikeV1987]

This is an international forum. I'm fed up with the phony british gentleman racing attitude here. Stop bashing racing legends!

[Lee Nicolle]

The interesting thing is that MAYBE Vunderkid may not have the engine and or trans last the next race. There is many things that those team orders are all about and that includes longevity of these components.
I guess we will see.

I have seen more about this negative move on the media than if Mark had won. and negative news will never be good for the sport.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 26 March 2013 - 09:41.

[mnmracer]

The interesting thing is that MAYBE Vunderkid may not have the engine and or trans last the next race. There is many things that those team orders are all about and that includes longevity of these components.
I guess we will see.

I have seen more about this negative move on the media than if Mark had won. and negative news will never be good for the sport.

Considering he was forced by Red Bull to underperform (his engine) behind Mark for >20 laps, I'm sure his engine will be fine.

[windtravels]

Less attractive to all teams except ferrai... (if he was to be their new number 1 after alonso)

[indian]

I don't think this one incident is going to make Vettel any less attractive to other teams. His next team is probably going to look at only (a) his titles (b) who drives the other car (whether a team wants two superstar drivers like Lewis/Vettel or Alonso/Vettel etc in the same team or not) © money

[rasul]

We all know what went on yesterday - and we all have our opinions on it.

One of the big questions for me to come out of his whole event is the affect it has had on Vettel's image - both outside of the sport and inside of the sport (not least within his own team).

He has for a very long time been the golden boy of the media: Excellent at working the room, close to Bernie, projecting a very happy-go-lucky demeanor, and a extremely successful racing driver to boot. But has the events of Sepang, which included the very public "Get him out of the way" outbust caused a major dent...... or conversely enhanced his image by cementing him as a ruthless racer just like a lot of the greats?

From a personal point of view I think he has defiantly taken, at the very least, a short-term hit - and left Sepang with a lot less admirers both internally and externally.

I'm reading Russian F1 blogs right now of McLaren/Ferrari fans that usually hate on Vettel. The reactions are surprisingly pretty positive now that the dust has settled a bit. Many people are glad Vettel stopped being "the golden boy," because they were sick of his "good boy act" and apparently they like the jerk!Vettel much better. Kind of funny.

But then again, Schumi and Ferrari are incredibly popular in Russia, so now many are just cynical about the whole thing.

A quote from one popular Russian blog(loose translation, since my Russian isn't that great):

Many years ago, taking a picture with baby-Vettel, Schumacher taught him how to survive and succeed in this wild, cruel world: "Remember, my boy: to get apples from a tall tree, you need to shake it. A few apples would hit you, but don't worry -- the bruises would fade in a month, but you would be eating a delicious apple jam for a year."

We'll see, I guess.

[DILLIGAF]

Vettel seems to be the least liked world champion I have seen. That said his value would be more damaged by his lying than his driving.

^This. His driving abiliities are unquestionably great. But he needs to work on his lying, at least make them believable. Or maybe just tell the truth - "I'm here to win, nothing less" That's what he should have said. I still think most teams would snap him up in a heartbeat though.

[Brother Fox]

Yep, he's come out of this looking like a spineless crunt.
He was all tough and defiant on the track but is now apologetic and sorry.

That's not tough and uncompromising, it's he real life equivalent of the keyboard warrior Internet troll. Tough until push comes to shove.
Talks the talk but won't walk the walk.
When Ferarri broke the bam on team orders, they basically said 'yep, we did it. We'll do it against if we have to'

[RubalSher]

I believe the question posted in entirely the opposite of what should be asked - Does Malaysia 2013 make RBR less attractive for Vettel? What I found most surprising to begin with was that RBR was not giving preferential treatment to Vettel that they had done for 3 years. The only logical explanation for this is that he has outgrown the team and his success and stardom have reached levels that RBR could do without. I get a feeling that RBR want to pull him down but it is too late now.

I see this as the beginning of the end for the Vettel - RBR relationship and Vettel is likely to move to other teams now, sooner rather than later and there is already talk of Ferrari and McLaren / Lotus also have drivers on short term contracts.

[exogenesis1203]

^This. His driving abiliities are unquestionably great. But he needs to work on his lying, at least make them believable. Or maybe just tell the truth - "I'm here to win, nothing less" That's what he should have said. I still think most teams would snap him up in a heartbeat though.

I wish he said "You pay me to win championship and that's what I am here to do", sure, that might have upset the team even more but it's not like it would have changed much. The fact is still Red Bull need him more than he need them, and coming out with the truth would have gained value for him in the eyes of other team.

[choyothe]

I believe the question posted in entirely the opposite of what should be asked - Does Malaysia 2013 make RBR less attractive for Vettel? What I found most surprising to begin with was that RBR was not giving preferential treatment to Vettel that they had done for 3 years. The only logical explanation for this is that he has outgrown the team and his success and stardom have reached levels that RBR could do without. I get a feeling that RBR want to pull him down but it is too late now.

Unfortunately, it should. I know it would for me if I was in his position.

[FenderJaguar]

no, I am pretty sure most managers want him in their team

[dans79]

Maybe because he was told to chill out as he still had half a race to go?

No, as I posted above, Vettel was told to chill out only after complaining. As I said before if Vettel was so fast he shouldn't need to complain, he should have just passed Webber and been done with it. He couldn't do that though, so he wanted the team to make Webber step asside.

[Sakae]

No, as I posted above, Vettel was told to chill out only after complaining. As I said before if Vettel was so fast he shouldn't need to complain, he should have just passed Webber and been done with it. He couldn't do that though, so he wanted the team to make Webber step asside.

I have nothing to prove you wrong, but if I may suggest, based on history between those two, thought may occurred to Vettel, that Webber will do something regrettable, and simply was trying to avoid it. My speculation is somewhat supported by the fact, that Webber is not always a thinking man, just check what he has done right after crossing the finish line. (Think possibilities, had he hit Vettel: expensive equipment damage, debris /spectators, drivers pile up, Turkey 2010 all over). Should I continue? Seb knows about Webber more than most of us watching those two.

[mnmracer]

No, as I posted above, Vettel was told to chill out only after complaining. As I said before if Vettel was so fast he shouldn't need to complain, he should have just passed Webber and been done with it. He couldn't do that though, so he wanted the team to make Webber step asside.

This may come as a shock to you, but team radio is not live.

[Diablobb81]

No, as I posted above, Vettel was told to chill out only after complaining. As I said before if Vettel was so fast he shouldn't need to complain, he should have just passed Webber and been done with it. He couldn't do that though, so he wanted the team to make Webber step asside.

And before that he was told to keep a 3 second gap.

[dans79]

And before that he was told to keep a 3 second gap.

Link?

[Diablobb81]

Link?

Look for F1pitradio on Twitter.You'll get all the info. I don't want to post a link to the video here.

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 March 2013 - 17:28.

[MikeV1987]

How crazy would this forum go if the roles were reversed and it was Mark being told to keep a 3 second gap behind Vettel? By the sounds of it, most people here would bash RBR and complain about team orders.

[DILLIGAF]

I have nothing to prove you wrong, but if I may suggest, based on history between those two, thought may occurred to Vettel, that Webber will do something regrettable, and simply was trying to avoid it. My speculation is somewhat supported by the fact, that Webber is not always a thinking man, just check what he has done right after crossing the finish line. (Think possibilities, had he hit Vettel: expensive equipment damage, debris /spectators, drivers pile up, Turkey 2010 all over). Should I continue? Seb knows about Webber more than most of us watching those two.

And yet again out comes the myth that Turkey 2010 was Webber's fault.

[Black Widow]

I have nothing to prove you wrong, but if I may suggest, based on history between those two, thought may occurred to Vettel, that Webber will do something regrettable, and simply was trying to avoid it. My speculation is somewhat supported by the fact, that Webber is not always a thinking man, just check what he has done right after crossing the finish line. (Think possibilities, had he hit Vettel: expensive equipment damage, debris /spectators, drivers pile up, Turkey 2010 all over). Should I continue? Seb knows about Webber more than most of us watching those two.

If you are talking about that "doctored" piece of footage from CANAL+ then I suggest you look at it again.

That footage has been sped up:
- Look at the hand movements
- Look at the head movements
- Look at the shadows on the side pod
- Look at the tyre rotation

Then compare them to the second time they show "the chop".

Total misrepresentation by CANAL+ but then again it makes for better viewing, doesn't it.

[bourbon]

A clear and calculated breach of team orders, not a split second decision - how many teams would stand for that? Or more so, want to take on someone who shows so little regard for the teams wishes?
For mine it's not an error of judgement, it's a window into his personality.

I'd imagine that Ferrari don't care for that too much. Similar for the other big guys that get to pick the cream of talent (McLaren/Lotus/Merc). We saw clearly that Merc would expect the same as Red Bull.

Would these teams be willing to have a loose canon just because he's quick?

I can't help but think with the often talked about move to Ferrari it would be interesting to know what the guys in red think

Well it depends. What are the chances that a driver who ignores a team order to not WIN a RACE will also display telemetry on twitter, blackmail his team or air the team's dirty laundry at every turn...?

I'd say not likely. So I doubt he'd look any less attractive...

Edited by bourbon, 27 March 2013 - 04:08.

[Raelene]

Look for F1pitradio on Twitter.You'll get all the info. I don't want to post a link to the video here.

remember the fight club rules ;);) good on you for not posting it - we don't want him taken "off air"

[Kelateboy]

How crazy would this forum go if the roles were reversed and it was Mark being told to keep a 3 second gap behind Vettel? By the sounds of it, most people here would bash RBR and complain about team orders.

Just search for the thread on Silverstone 2011. Mark was told to hold station but refused to abide by the team order, and tried to overtake Vettel but eventually failed. The forum was filled with posts from the usual suspects slating RBR's for their team order's call.

[nectar]

Nah, problem with RBR is they claim two drivers are equal while in reality Vettle gets more favour. Look at Alonso's clear status, that's more simple.
I say Ferrari would be happy to have Vettle as their no. 1 once Alonso retires. This incident has no influence whatsoever. Even if he stays RBR would be able to find him a No.2 next year. I just wish they could quit claiming this equal status thing. Vettle has shouted to the world who's no.1

[pRy]

Total misrepresentation by CANAL+ but then again it makes for better viewing, doesn't it.

Well here's the Sky F1 copy:

http://www1.skysport...-cuts-up-vettel

Looks the same to me?

[Sakae]

If you are talking about that "doctored" piece of footage from CANAL+ then I suggest you look at it again.

That footage has been sped up:
- Look at the hand movements
- Look at the head movements
- Look at the shadows on the side pod
- Look at the tyre rotation

Then compare them to the second time they show "the chop".

Total misrepresentation by CANAL+ but then again it makes for better viewing, doesn't it.

I am really not an expert on interpreting images, thus I am fully dependable on others who are. All what I know is that (a) manipulation of images is possible these days, (b) people with agendas engage in such activities (I am not sure if in this case), and fact also is, that Webber in one point drives on left side of the road (away from his team), and suddenly needs to be closer to Seb on the right side of the track? It's a smelly situation one way or another, and Webber is not helping by acting like that to his victim image he is trying to portray.