185 replies to this topic

[vone]

Horner may have trouble with getting his drivers to obey his orders but in spite of everything (especially the events of 2010) he has guided Red Bull to 6 championships.

Regarding the team principal being on the podium after the first race win, Eric Boullier was not on the podium in Australia.

It just seems that Briatore is attacking Red Bull while they are down. Any trouble at Red Bull will probably benefit Ferrari and his driver Alonso.

[HoldenRT]

The way I see it is Horner, Newey, Dr Evil were not arsed about Vettel doing what he did, he's won them 3 WDC's, and they know full well he's the best bet for a 4th.

It suited them once it was done, for Vettel to get maximum points.

Except that it made them look weak in the process.

[SpaMaster]

To present the other side, I have to say Horner is an excellent team principal. First, he has won more than Domenicalli, Whitmarsh and even more than Brawn since Brawn became team prinicipal in 2008. One of the things he has done well where others have failed is get an optimal second driver and hold on to it. The second driver is neither too strong (McLaren 2007) to cause big problems and cause mega unraveling to the detriment of the team, nor is he useless and neglected speed-wise (Massa-Ferrari). He got the right second driver and held on to him. So many thing have happened with Webber and it would have been very easy to have a fall-out with Webber in many of those occasions. Still he was able to handle Webber, keep him interested and has been able to get the most out of him for team's cause. In some other team, Webber would have become a vegetable and would not have performed at all. Good man management is not to keep everyone happy, but keep the glued-enough to get the best for the team. Vettel and Webber are polar opposites. It is sheer Horner's skills that have kept them together, Newey would not have been able to do it, not Mateschitz, definitely not Helmut Marko. I see this as a great achievement of Horner.

Next, look at the evaluation of the team from its start to world-beaters. Newey and his design team can definitely produce world-class cars. But you need lot more than that to win a championship. The team was a reasonably smooth-functioning organization when they were mid-field. But from 2009 when they started challenging for titles, the main credit goes to Horner for improving the track operations, strategy and race engineering. In 2009 and 2010, their mechanics were not the most skillful. Pit-calls and strategies left a lot to be desired. Here Horner made the transition possible from a mid-field team to a top team. By 2011, strategies were top-class, pit-crew was among the best, pit-stop call-ins were of highest quality. This overall upgradation of race team operations is quite different to building a car. Making this upgrade to elite-status is not that easy and Horner is responsible for this. He didn't just buy new personnel. Lot of them were old mechanics and engineers from their midfield days. But they improved, he brought in new people, brought in new systems and procedures and it was an impressive in-organization development. Organizational leaders would tell you how difficult it is. You can't buy that with money or new key people. It is a great managment task. I could even argue that Horner is the best team principal in F1 now.

[Music Lover]

Horner's weak comment, "C'mon this is silly"

AND...

Bad management is what it comes down to.

Agree

Brawn = leader
Horner = manager

Simple as that!

[halifaxf1fan]

Agree

Brawn = leader
Horner = manager

Simple as that!

Horner's record on using TO's is very limited and have led to disasterous results. He is out of his depth.

[SinStorm]

Horner does need a set of bigger balls otherwise i feel his drivers have the potential to cause each other some grief. As for Briatore i've seen his thing photo and would say that Horner's not the only one lacking balls ;)

[V8 Fireworks]

Briatore: "Horner has no "

Not sure Briatore is more of a racer, AFAIK Horner has actually raced karts?

It would have been nice to see an order for the positions reveresed, easier solution would have been to pit Webbo first and save the trouble.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 March 2013 - 13:42.

[yoyogetfunky]

Briatore backed away from the controversy, insisting his comments were misinterpreted because he has “a lot of respect” for Horner.

“As a team principal, I think Chris has done an excellent job not only for Red Bull, but for Formula 1 in general, and he is still undoubtedly doing so,” he said.



http://www.yallaf1.c...rs-in-malaysia/

[kensaundm31]

"come on Seb, this is silly..."

No wonder Seb doesn't give a toss.

[Sakae]

Why Briatore doesn't say - yes, I said those things (about Horner), and I stand by what I said, instead zig-zagging all over the place, especially if he has those things between his legs? But then, maybe not, who knows.

[yoyogetfunky]

Agree

Brawn = leader
Horner = manager

Simple as that!

Yeah, Brawn is such a leader they brought in Paddy Lowe to take over.

[expert]

I'm on record in this thread of questioning Horner's tactic's here, but the latest news reveals I think he has handled it well.

Vettel has been somewhat humbled by having to apologise, and by having his TP make it known to the world he had to do it. Webber's position in the has been strengthened by his loyalty (go on Mark, be loyal). Both drivers have been reminded the opportunity driving a Red Bull car gives them.

Maybe there is hope they will behave!

Edited by expert, 28 March 2013 - 21:32.

[Szoelloe]

Yeah, Brawn is such a leader they brought in Paddy Lowe to take over.

have they?

[Music Lover]

I'm on record in this thread of questioning Horner's tactic's here, but the latest news reveals I think he has handled it well.

Vettel has been somewhat humbled by having to apologise, and by having his TP make it known to the world he had to do it. Webber's position in the has been strengthened by his loyalty (go on Mark, be loyal). Both drivers have been reminded the opportunity driving a Red Bull car gives them.

Maybe there is hope they will behave!

No, Horner didn't handled it well.
All parties involved has lost. Horner lost his authority, Vettel his credibility.

A true leader would have been proactive, speaking with the drivers making it clear that he is the one taking strategical decisions as he has more information than the drivers.
He also would make it clear that the points to the team is more important than the points to the drivers and that it going to be consequences for not following orders.
AND in the heat of a race, be VERY clear that his decision is to be followed.

All in all, if Horner was a good leader, this situation wouldn't occur in the first place.

[SpaMaster]

People stress so much on a leader having control, authority, etc. I don't think that is the main requisite. The most important thing is to lead them to the objective. The objective have been well and truly accomplished many times and repeatedly. I don't equate leader to control.

[DILLIGAF]

Confirmed! Christian has no balls!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106655

http://www.theroar.c...ed-bull-racing/


He's the team manager you have when you have no team manager. Seb doesn't listen to him. Mark doesn't listen to him. Nor does Helmut. And he just recently copped a spray from Dietrich Mateschitz for ignoring Red Bull team philosophy. What a soft c*#k this bloke is.

[nomi]

^ Why does Dietrich put up with this??

Wouldn't he stamp his authority for and for all, what does the other half owner think the Thai dude?

Is Helmut Marko that powerful, does he actually part of Red Bull?

[mnmracer]

It's very simple. Would a man with no balls do this?


and you're welcome for that mental image ;)

Edited by mnmracer, 12 April 2013 - 13:46.

[maverick69]

I watched the live presser...... Ouch.......

[encircled]

Care to expand? Wasn't able to see the presscon.

[Sakae]

I wonder where was Briatore when his subject, Webber, disobeyed team last time around. What does that say about his own management; his outcry over Vettel seems a bit disingenuous in that respect.

Edited by Sakae, 12 April 2013 - 14:35.

[SCUDmissile]

^ Why does Dietrich put up with this??

Wouldn't he stamp his authority for and for all, what does the other half owner think the Thai dude?

Is Helmut Marko that powerful, does he actually part of Red Bull?

He died I think (RIP)

[Longtimefan]

I think its clear now Horner doesn't run the RBR team, Seb does.

[motorhead]

It's very simple. Would a man with no balls do this?


and you're welcome for that mental image ;)

Hahhaa, what about Flavio´s balls (I just had to do it, sorry)

[maverick69]

Care to expand? Wasn't able to see the presscon.

Basically this:

I think its clear now Horner doesn't run the RBR team, Seb does.

[encircled]

Oh ok.

[Afterburner]

Lol, just saw some video interviews from NBCSN with Horner about the whole schmozzle at Malaysia. He says that there were no team orders used until after the last stop, yet video/radio evidence shows that from about lap twenty-one or so they ordered Sebastian to hold station behind Mark--lying through his teeth, in other words.

If he wasn't such a mother-hen with his drivers, he would've never had this problem in the first place. We've seen, time and again, that they can race one another without jeopardising the team. Mr. Mateschitz says they should race one another. If this had been the case from the get-go, there'd be no whining about favouritism or who had the benefit of whose help in which race. What a mess.

[SgtPepperoni]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that anyone would listen to one word Heidie Klum's ex husband would have to say. He's already proven what a soft knob he is. Why does anyone think he's news worthy? He is as irrelevant as his ex wife. They are coupled on the tote.

[DILLIGAF]

We've seen, time and again, that they can race one another without jeopardising the team. Mr. Mateschitz says they should race one another. If this had been the case from the get-go, there'd be no whining about favouritism or who had the benefit of whose help in which race. What a mess.

Spot on Afterburner

Edited by DILLIGAF, 12 April 2013 - 21:35.

[aditya-now]

Briartore is right. After having seen the latest interview with him on SKY I have to say, Horner is a smooth, sly operator. No character, no guts, no balls.

Perhaps exactly the team boss Seb needed.

[mymemoryfails]

Lol, just saw some video interviews from NBCSN with Horner about the whole schmozzle at Malaysia. He says that there were no team orders used until after the last stop, yet video/radio evidence shows that from about lap twenty-one or so they ordered Sebastian to hold station behind Mark--lying through his teeth, in other words.

If he wasn't such a mother-hen with his drivers, he would've never had this problem in the first place. We've seen, time and again, that they can race one another without jeopardising the team. Mr. Mateschitz says they should race one another. If this had been the case from the get-go, there'd be no whining about favouritism or who had the benefit of whose help in which race. What a mess.

Spot on Afterburner

There's sort of a natural common sense to this.

But I would add you can't have a philosophy of "let them race" and a "preferred winner". They are just mutually exclusive approaches. It will play out in all the little details, pit stop preference, last on the track attempt at q, etc.

It's a bit surprising to me they have even got as far as this point.

mymemoryfails

[NotSoSilentBob]

[peroa]

Well, he apparently has enough balls for Ginger Spice, it seems.

[Exb]

Well, he apparently has enough balls for Ginger Spice, it seems.

????

Was thinking this was going to be something about him defying the FIA with the fuel flow limit but can't see how that would fit into your statement unless there are some very odd typos?

[peroa]

http://www.dailymail...d-14-years.html

[SophieB]

Racing Comments isn't for discussing people's private lives. Closed.