84 replies to this topic

[f1supreme]

Then why did Jenson Button beat him over their 3 years together?

2 seasons to 1 is not beating your team mate over 3 years.
Also did you see what happened last season.

[undersquare]

Where did he state that Hamilton is the only one that lies?

Don't you start with your snide insinuation. It's not the case that Hamilton 'lies'. He told one lie. Jenson told one. So did Nando and Sebi and goodness knows who else. I've observed before it's the least scrupulous posters who keep bringing liegate up, and misrepresenting it.

[ToXiCiTy]

Don't you start with your snide insinuation. It's not the case that Hamilton 'lies'. He told one lie. Jenson told one. So did Nando and Sebi and goodness knows who else. I've observed before it's the least scrupulous posters who keep bringing liegate up, and misrepresenting it.

I dont trust any of them. They all have agendas and image to live up to. Sometimes it backfires and we get a weekend like in Malaysia.

[Sausage]

Yeah this is just Lewis somewhat being a hypocrit and wrong (RB intended to give MW the win after all). Although I believe him that he does ask for equality because let's be honest he firmly believes that he is the best, but he really won't complain when an order goes in his favour, like on sunday. Reversed however he has been grumpy before. Versus a teammate all drivers love getting an advantage and hate getting a disadvantage.

[sanW10]

I dont trust any of them. They all have agendas and image to live up to. Sometimes it backfires and we get a weekend like in Malaysia.

OT
just noticed your profile pic

[JRizzle86]

After what Helmut said regarding team orders at Mercedes a response was required. I have no issue with what Lewis said.

[bub]

lol, Hamilton hitting back at Helmut

this is going to be a fun 2 week break.

Yep

If lewis is the number 1 because nico was told not to overtake him, then webber must be the number 1 at RB because they told vettel not to overtake webber.

Marko is a hypocrite.

And yep

[yoyogetfunky]

but but but twas Marko wot started it .

He shouldn't have commented on Merc last Sunday -Why shouldn't Hamilton defend his team & pile the pressure back on his?

Because there is nothing to defend and makes him look stupid. Marko was right.

He didn't.

When Jenson announced his move to McLaren, many thought he was crazy, because the team was "completely geared to Lewis". They said that with a reason. McLaren was so geared towards Lewis they needed to reshuffle the engineers to give Jenson a fair chance. Lewis shouldnt play the innocent child here.

I think since Silverstone 2010 Red Bull have been very fair to Webber, as evidenced with the hold position order last sunday.

[syolase]

The number of haters in this thread is too damn high!

[RealRacing]

Bernie must be hopping in one foot. Finally, F1 has finished turning into what he has envisioned all this time. In any case, teams are in kind of a rut aren't they? On one hand, with TOs being legal now, they can choose to support one of their drivers from the get-go. Furthermore, the earlier they decide to do that, the better the chance of their No. 1 for the WDC. So if one or more teams already decide to do this early, the others are practically forced to do the same. However, on the other hand, they want to appear fair to both of their drivers to increase their chances at the WCC (a driver that is told not to compete does not have the same motivation) and to be able to get at least decent drivers in the future (no one wants to be hired directly as No.2). So does the elimination of the ban of TOs really make F1 more honest? It seems to me it doesn't.

[Dalton007]

Webber is consistently slower than Vettel, that's why he's number 2 at Red Bull.

[PurpleHam]

I think F1 would be a much duller place without Marko, I love some of the stirring he does.

But come on, they took parts off Webber's car and put them on Vettel's atleast once, if that's not having a favorite then I don't know what is.

I totally believe Hamilton does not want to win any other way than fair and square, if Brawn favours him, which I think he does, then that's not Hamilton's fault.

Hamilton will make himself number 1 at Merc by being the driver bringing home the most points, he'll be Merc's best bet for a WDC.

[Henrik B]

Which takes us back to Lewis being number 1. If there were really no preference then why should Brawn care? There's no risk involved, and it would be a wonderful advert for the openess and fair play of Mercedes. It's difficult not to suspect that Lewis knew the answer before he asked: after all, why ask in the first place?

Because Nico didn't have the fuel to go after RBR either, so there was no point in swapping the places they had earned earlier. You switch if there's a reason to, and if Nico had had fuel and tyres Brawn most certainly would have swapped them.

Lewis would have been (rightly) pissed if he had let Nico past and Nico would've been forced to run a second in front because HE was marginal on fuel...

And that's why team bosses make these calls, they have the full picture and you don't have the time to argue and explain everything over radio. That's for debriefing. If Nico and Lewis feel they can trust Brawn to make the same call if order is reversed, they are both happy.

And that's what Lewis is talking about. RBR SAY they have a equal policy, but Webber obviously doesn't feel that way ("...will protect Vettel as usual") and others in the pitlane doesn't think RBR do. That's an atmosphere that will breed discord.

[inca_roads]

When Jenson announced his move to McLaren, many thought he was crazy, because the team was "completely geared to Lewis". They said that with a reason. McLaren was so geared towards Lewis they needed to reshuffle the engineers to give Jenson a fair chance. Lewis shouldnt play the innocent child here.

Yes, McLaren changed Hamilton's engineer, a decision I have never seen any other top driver have to endure in the name of "equality."

And you're actually using it to fit your agenda of him being favoured?

[as65p]

Yes, McLaren changed Hamilton's engineer, a decision I have never seen any other top driver have to endure in the name of "equality."

And you're actually using it to fit your agenda of him being favoured?

IIRC Button had three different engineers in his first McLaren season, so he wins.

[yoyogetfunky]

Yes, McLaren changed Hamilton's engineer, a decision I have never seen any other top driver have to endure in the name of "equality."

And you're actually using it to fit your agenda of him being favoured?

I think the quote from Whitmarsh was that they had to reshuffle a lot of the engineering resources to accomodate Jenson, not just one engineer. And looking at the Heikki years at McLaren, a blind man mustv seen how favoured Lewis was with parts, strategy, etc. Lewis can claim he never asked for advantages but he never said no to them neither. He can claim he didnt want the team order but in the meantime cries himself all the way to a point advantage. He shouldnt play the innnocent child imo.

[drunkenmaster]

LOL, that's really rich from Hamilton saying RB has a clear one and two and Merc not, when *exactly* the opposite could be seen in Malaysia. Or did he mean Webber's the clear number one?

[study]

LOL, that's really rich from Hamilton saying RB has a clear one and two and Merc not, when *exactly* the opposite could be seen in Malaysia. Or did he mean Webber's the clear number one?

Just how rich it was from Marko

[malibu]

rosberg and webber are different cases. Webber is overall slower than vettel. It is not rosberg's cases who is a top driver.

It was predictable that two top drivers in the same team would be problematic. By facing Rosberg, Hamilton took the risk of destroying his wdc image (just like what schumi suffered). In the other hand, by facing hamilton, rosberg faces the risks of being stopped in his willing to be considered as a potential great driver.
The result of their confrontation this year was expected to be the most spectacular and extremely difficult to predict (except for some fanboys). Both drivers seems gentle and are political but they knew they were going to have a though battle. Rosberg was burning inside when team orders came. The fight is now psychological. hamilton can say what he wants, he plays the psychological game. Hamilton knows he has brawn support and he acts like the boss. He gives good and bad points ("rosberg did an amazing job") he criticize the car whenever he wants. He tells in public he didn't deserve to be on podium. I don't doubt there is some truth in his words but by saying so, he tells Rosberg and the media that the team consideres him as number one.

That's why RB intervention is very harmful and unfair. Rosberg is under big psychological pressure. He knows he can only count on himself and has no right for mistakes. Hope he is well advised and hope RB doesn't affect such great talent

[lewymp4]

2 seasons to 1 is not beating your team mate over 3 years.
Also did you see what happened last season.

Probably not....especially Hamilton's loss of 2 races due to mechanical failures while comortably leading, or losing pole positon because of a team mistake, and being taken out while leading a race.

[drunkenmaster]

Just how rich it was from Marko

What is with Marko? He said Merc apparently has a number one and two, and that was what could be seen for everyone in Malaysia. Not rich, just right.

[study]

What is with Marko? He said Merc apparently has a number one and two, and that was what could be seen for everyone in Malaysia. Not rich, just right.

And Redbull never have?

[drunkenmaster]

And Redbull never have?

Webber ignores it anyways. The difference is just that most people find it good when Webber ignores it, and hate Vettel when he does it once himself...

[SpaMaster]

Someone is sore that he did not get the Red Bull seat in light of the recent Ecclestone comments that made him feel embarrassed. This is the guy who tricked Alonso off his track position at 2007 Hungary qualy that set off a whole chain of events. He really shouldn't be getting his mouth into this. When this guys gets anxious, he can talk a lot of c--p.

[study]

Webber ignores it anyways. The difference is just that most people find it good when Webber ignores it, and hate Vettel when he does it once himself...

I can recall loads of times that Vettel has benefitted, don't try and rewrite it. If you're going to call Merc out on it then don't chicken and pretend Redbull don't do anything of the sort.

[drunkenmaster]

I can recall loads of times that Vettel has benefitted, don't try and rewrite it. If you're going to call Merc out on it then don't chicken and pretend Redbull don't do anything of the sort.

Really? So when did Vettel benefit from a team order on Webber? At the last season finale maybe, when Webber was surely told to stay clear from Vettel and has then done exactly the opposite?

Edited by drunkenmaster, 26 March 2013 - 21:03.

[Freung]

If Red Bull doesn't have equality why did Lewis want to drive for them?

I would imagine his ambition overides any petty opinions that wouldn't change anything anyway..'Think big' as they say.!!

[genespleen]

Brawn watched two passes and re-passes, burning up fuel. So he had to end the racing, and the usual pre-existing deal is that whoever is leading after the last stops keeps the lead while they cruise safely to the finish.

Hamilton had to ask because Rosberg was trying not to pass, so he'd have had to force it and effect a team order. That's not his prerogative, quite obviously.

+1. This.

[Raelene]

Lewis simply is the best. He does not need a lapdog as a partner, like other so called super star drivers.

wellhe did last Sunday ;);)

[DILLIGAF]

Brawn watched two passes and re-passes, burning up fuel. So he had to end the racing, and the usual pre-existing deal is that whoever is leading after the last stops keeps the lead while they cruise safely to the finish.

Hamilton had to ask because Rosberg was trying not to pass, so he'd have had to force it and effect a team order. That's not his prerogative, quite obviously.

Fair call

[Kobasmashi]

I think the biggest problem that Red Bull have created for themselves is that they don't admit they have a number 1 and number 2 driver

[Skinnyguy]

No the point is not the team order, which is quite normal among equal drivers, it's that Vettel can ignore it and get away with it.

So can Webber. And he´s got away with it more times and pushed his luck farther in this department. So there you have another point for equality.

[Skinnyguy]

Brawn watched two passes and re-passes, burning up fuel. So he had to end the racing, and the usual pre-existing deal is that whoever is leading after the last stops keeps the lead while they cruise safely to the finish.

Hamilton had to ask because Rosberg was trying not to pass, so he'd have had to force it and effect a team order. That's not his prerogative, quite obviously.

If Lewis was low on fuel, HE had to slow down and get to the line as fast as possible. And the way to achieve it is not igoring the probling and keep pushing to then have the race cancelled. It´s taking care of the problem as soon as it emerges and start driving conservative as soon as you know you´ll need to.

If you use too much fuel or get underfueled, you can´t expect to get the race cancelled when the bad side of your strategy is about to show up. You´ve run lighter than the other guy/had more power than the other guy for most of the race, so you should be ready to face the fact that it´s time for the opposite strategy to show its good face. Don´t try to sell what happened as normal.

[Velocifer]

Hilarious how Hamilton nobly insists he would only want equal treatment in a team, but then wanted to join Red Bull where he states there is always a number one and two.. What a hypocrite liar.

Brawn watched two passes and re-passes, burning up fuel. So he had to end the racing, and the usual pre-existing deal is that whoever is leading after the last stops keeps the lead while they cruise safely to the finish.

Hamilton had to ask because Rosberg was trying not to pass, so he'd have had to force it and effect a team order. That's not his prerogative, quite obviously.

Equally hilarious how Hamilton fans just pull stuff out of the air to pass of as facts when it suits the propaganda line..

Driver and fans fit each other. No problem to serve obvious bull.

[choyothe]

I can recall loads of times that Vettel has benefitted, don't try and rewrite it. If you're going to call Merc out on it then don't chicken and pretend Redbull don't do anything of the sort.

Then tell us.