Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 13 votes

Solution: Bench Vettel for Friday in China


  • Please log in to reply
318 replies to this topic

#1 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:30

Christian Horner has to do something to respond to Seb's insubordination. Banning him for an entire race damages his WDC chances as well as their WCC total. But putting Buemi in the car for both Friday session would certainly send a (very public) message that it's not okay to disregard the pit wall. It would be put Seb a bit on the back foot for the weekend, but not so much that he wouldn't be able to recover. Giving Buemi some seat time wouldn't be the worst thing either in case he's needed to race in the future.

Thoughts?

Advertisement

#2 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:31

No. Webber did not get punishment in the past, so why should Vettel?

#3 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,679 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:32

Christian Horner has to do something to respond to Seb's insubordination. Banning him for an entire race damages his WDC chances as well as their WCC total. But putting Buemi in the car for both Friday session would certainly send a (very public) message that it's not okay to disregard the pit wall. It would be put Seb a bit on the back foot for the weekend, but not so much that he wouldn't be able to recover. Giving Buemi some seat time wouldn't be the worst thing either in case he's needed to race in the future.

Thoughts?



lol

If they feeel they has to sg, they do, but imho don't give advices from the outside until they ask...

#4 ToXiCiTy

ToXiCiTy
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:32

So, Webber has ignored teamorders three times in a past and got nothing and triple WDC should get suspended? No way. The hate Vettel is getting is staggering and hypocritical.

#5 NotSoSilentBob

NotSoSilentBob
  • Member

  • 1,667 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:34

Not enough

#6 ApexMouse

ApexMouse
  • Member

  • 909 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:34

That's right up there with Israel as an effective solution to an issue.

#7 Kerch

Kerch
  • Member

  • 1,224 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:34

So, Webber has ignored teamorders three times in a past and got nothing and triple WDC should get suspended? No way. The hate Vettel is getting is staggering and hypocritical.


http://en.wikipedia....gs_make_a_right

#8 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:34

So, Webber has ignored teamorders three times in a past and got nothing and triple WDC should get suspended? No way. The hate Vettel is getting is staggering and hypocritical.

Yesterday's news; as Vettel's fan for a few years I see this since his BMW days. From Polish brigade first, and now he has three to cope with (Webber, Hamilton, Alonso).

Edited by Sakae, 26 March 2013 - 20:35.


#9 yoyogetfunky

yoyogetfunky
  • Member

  • 856 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:37

Christian Horner has to do something to respond to Seb's insubordination. Banning him for an entire race damages his WDC chances as well as their WCC total. But putting Buemi in the car for both Friday session would certainly send a (very public) message that it's not okay to disregard the pit wall. It would be put Seb a bit on the back foot for the weekend, but not so much that he wouldn't be able to recover. Giving Buemi some seat time wouldn't be the worst thing either in case he's needed to race in the future.

Thoughts?


My thoughts: Webber should hold a press conference a la Hamilton in 2009, just him, with all the media, and ask for forgiveness for all the bad things he said about Vettel last sunday, in light of his own remarks on similar incidents in recent history. Then he must publicly apologise to vettel, and that he will never play a hypocrite again, and also that he will work as closely as possible with Seb in the next few races to restore trust and team spirit. Lastly he should apologise to DM, Horner and everybody at Red Bull for making so much fuzz and putting everybody in a bad light.

Then, perhaps then I might start to think differently about him again, and not demand that hell wash Sebs car by hand, in the paddock.

#10 ToXiCiTy

ToXiCiTy
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:37

http://en.wikipedia....gs_make_a_right


Irrelevant.

#11 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:37

Yesterday's news; as Vettel's fan for a few years I see this since his BMW days. From Polish brigade first, and now he has three to cope with (Webber, Hamilton, Alonso).

huh? Poles hated him or anything? can't remember this one

#12 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:37

Is this relatively minor punishment really that outrageous to you?

Think of it from Christian Horner's perspective. He's the one who comes out of this looking the worst - he's being called weak and ineffectual and all that. The graybeards in the sport are clearly seizing the opportunity to criticize him and part of that motivation is from not wanting to see someone so young be so successful in this sport. Seb should know what that feels like.

Seb is a smart guy and knows he needs to do something to make things right. My guess is that he would agree to this to help Horner re-establish credibility and also to placate Mark a bit (since Seb's not being "protected").



#13 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,679 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:40

Is this relatively minor punishment really that outrageous to you?

Think of it from Christian Horner's perspective. He's the one who comes out of this looking the worst - he's being called weak and ineffectual and all that. The graybeards in the sport are clearly seizing the opportunity to criticize him and part of that motivation is from not wanting to see someone so young be so successful in this sport. Seb should know what that feels like.

Seb is a smart guy and knows he needs to do something to make things right. My guess is that he would agree to this to help Horner re-establish credibility and also to placate Mark a bit (since Seb's not being "protected").



Why do you want to punish Seb? He didn't do any wrong. He just kick Webbo's ***

Edited by Tarzaan, 26 March 2013 - 20:47.


#14 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:43

Is this relatively minor punishment really that outrageous to you?

Think of it from Christian Horner's perspective. He's the one who comes out of this looking the worst - he's being called weak and ineffectual and all that. The graybeards in the sport are clearly seizing the opportunity to criticize him and part of that motivation is from not wanting to see someone so young be so successful in this sport. Seb should know what that feels like.

Seb is a smart guy and knows he needs to do something to make things right. My guess is that he would agree to this to help Horner re-establish credibility and also to placate Mark a bit (since Seb's not being "protected").


No, a punishment like that still sounds utterly ridiculous.

#15 drunkenmaster

drunkenmaster
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:44

So, Webber has ignored teamorders three times in a past and got nothing and triple WDC should get suspended? No way. The hate Vettel is getting is staggering and hypocritical.

:up: Exactly.


#16 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 27,385 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:44

My guess is that he would agree to this to help Horner re-establish credibility

If Horner wants to establish credibility, the last thing he should do is bow to pressure brought by rivals (Briatore etc) and move from the team's stated position of sorting this out behind closed doors. Doing that would make him look weak.

#17 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 8,724 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:44

For a need to find a solution first there has to be a problem. There is no special problem at RB only business as usual regarding the behavior of their drivers.

#18 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:47

huh? Poles hated him or anything? can't remember this one

You didn't miss anything of value, I assure you, but that's past and Kubica may or may not return, and then we see again what the mood is. (Just for the record, I don't think due to his physical condition that he will make it. I don't wish to create impression today that I am now backing off my initial prediction, but I wish him well).

Edited by Sakae, 26 March 2013 - 20:49.


#19 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 8,418 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:48

So, Webber has ignored teamorders three times in a past and got nothing and triple WDC should get suspended? No way. The hate Vettel is getting is staggering and hypocritical.


He did get a punishment: was blamed by the team about turkey 2010 and later he got his front wing removed to give it to vettel in silverstone.

Advertisement

#20 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,679 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:50

If Horner wants to establish credibility, the last thing he should do is bow to pressure brought by rivals (Briatore etc) and move from the team's stated position of sorting this out behind closed doors. Doing that would make him look weak.


Imho if they want stability they shoult fire the Flavio managed Webbo. He seems more careful with Alonso than with his team mate.

#21 ToXiCiTy

ToXiCiTy
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:51

He did get a punishment: was blamed by the team about turkey 2010 and later he got his front wing removed to give it to vettel in silverstone.


Im okay with if RB choses to give Mark the updates first for couple of races. Thats a decent punishment.

#22 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:52

Wow, I'm surprised by the lack of compromise shown here. I expected a reasonable response and the replies make it seem like this idea is ridiculous. What Vettel did is in my mind a fireable offense, much like when Lewis tweeted telemetry last year. These guys are employees and have a responsibility to the team. Humbly accepting a minor punishment like this will allow Vettel to come across as contrite and human, rather than the selfish monster he appears to be when in the car. Then if he wins that race he can thank the team (and Buemi) for their hard work and get back in their good graces.

I really like Vettel and defend him against the Alonso brigade's attempts to diminish his accomplishments. But I'm mad at him for not showing the proper respect for the team that helped make him a champion and the sport itself.

Edited by tkulla, 26 March 2013 - 20:53.


#23 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 16,192 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:53

So, Webber has ignored teamorders three times in a past and got nothing and triple WDC should get suspended? No way. The hate Vettel is getting is staggering and hypocritical.


I am no SV fan but this is getting ridiculous...

#24 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:53

He did get a punishment: was blamed by the team about turkey 2010 and later he got his front wing removed to give it to vettel in silverstone.

I am doubtful about veracity of both statements. "The team" in Turkey was mild comment by Marko, and that wing which everyone quoting was handed over to Seb's mechanics only after Horner had Webber's answer, that wing is not really helping him. So much was discussed in public.

Edited by Sakae, 26 March 2013 - 20:55.


#25 yoyogetfunky

yoyogetfunky
  • Member

  • 856 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:57

Wow, I'm surprised by the lack of compromise shown here. I expected a reasonable response and the replies make it seem like this idea is ridiculous. What Vettel did is in my mind a fireable offense, much like when Lewis tweeted telemetry last year. These guys are employees and have a responsibility to the team. Humbly accepting a minor punishment like this will allow Vettel to come across as contrite and human, rather than the selfish monster he appears to be when in the car. Then if he wins that race he can thank the team (and Buemi) for their hard work and get back in their good graces.

I really like Vettel and defend him against the Alonso brigade's attempts to diminish his accomplishments. But I'm mad at him for not showing the proper respect for the team that helped make him a champion and the sport itself.


Forgive my ignorance and maybe I have missed something, but how was your reaction when Webber did the same several times earlier in the past? And unlike Vettel, didnt make any excuse for ignoring team orders at Silverstone, saying he couldnt sleep if he hadnt tried it. He wasnt sacked, so why should Vettel?

#26 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:58

I think he should be suspended for the entire Chinese grand prix. Team needs to put their foot down and take action. This isn't the first time Vettel has ignored the team either.

#27 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 20:59

I am no SV fan but this is getting ridiculous...


On the other hand it is quite funny that many of the ones complaining at the hate being given to Vettel are usually the first to give it out and are usually the 1st to defend team orders, strangely this has now turned about and now team orders are bad.

It'll be interesting how they deal with it, as the issue isn't that vettel ovetook but that he ignored a team order, and has done in the pass when told to slow down when in front.

Edited by study, 26 March 2013 - 21:00.


#28 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,249 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:00

I think the UN should write an angry letter.

#29 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 4,819 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:02

I think Newey should spank Vettel then in the technical briefings they should make him stand in the corner and nobody should talk to him. Oh Vettel will be wearing a jester hat, almost forgot that.


I know this will come as a shock to you but triple world champions get a lot of leeway when they upset 36 year old journeymen drivers.

Webber had his little public sulk and whine, he's taken some pats on the back, his dad will tell anybody that will listen about the SMS DM sent him and RedBull will have their faster driver leading the championship. That's in the real world. In the crazy world of internet BBs people will spend 3 weeks arguing back and forth about how shocked and appalled they are.

Edited by EthanM, 26 March 2013 - 21:03.


#30 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:03

Forgive my ignorance and maybe I have missed something, but how was your reaction when Webber did the same several times earlier in the past? And unlike Vettel, didnt make any excuse for ignoring team orders at Silverstone, saying he couldnt sleep if he hadnt tried it. He wasnt sacked, so why should Vettel?


I don't recall my reaction to that particular incident. Feel free to find an old thread and check, but whatever I did or didn't write was certainly objective since I like both of the Red Bull drivers and have no axe to grind here.

From a PR perspective Seb needs something besides "we talked about it behind closed door" to restore his image. When you've won three WDCs on the trot it just looks especially greedy to ambush your teammate in the second race of the season. He should want something like this if he cares at all about his legacy and perception.

#31 showtime

showtime
  • Member

  • 3,032 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:04

Threads from both sides are becoming more and more hilarious :rotfl: My suggestion, a pointy cap with donkey ears during the whole weekend!

#32 BenettonB192

BenettonB192
  • Member

  • 869 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:06

Wow, I'm surprised by the lack of compromise shown here. I expected a reasonable response and the replies make it seem like this idea is ridiculous. What Vettel did is in my mind a fireable offense, much like when Lewis tweeted telemetry last year. These guys are employees and have a responsibility to the team. Humbly accepting a minor punishment like this will allow Vettel to come across as contrite and human, rather than the selfish monster he appears to be when in the car. Then if he wins that race he can thank the team (and Buemi) for their hard work and get back in their good graces.

I really like Vettel and defend him against the Alonso brigade's attempts to diminish his accomplishments. But I'm mad at him for not showing the proper respect for the team that helped make him a champion and the sport itself.


Your idea is ridiculous indeed. Vettel is punished enough by enduring the shitstorm, the embarrasing post race ceremonies and interviews and the cold shoulder he got from his team.
The whole team showed poor form in regard to public and internal affairs, from the pit wall to the two drivers. If anything they should show repentance as a unit if they want to repair something.

Also get out of your head that guys like Hamilton and Vettel are normal employees. The difference between them and most of us is that we can easily be replaced by another noname. These guys on the other hand are unicums.

#33 mymemoryfails

mymemoryfails
  • Member

  • 298 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:07

Wow, I'm surprised by the lack of compromise shown here. I expected a reasonable response and the replies make it seem like this idea is ridiculous. What Vettel did is in my mind a fireable offense, much like when Lewis tweeted telemetry last year. These guys are employees and have a responsibility to the team. Humbly accepting a minor punishment like this will allow Vettel to come across as contrite and human, rather than the selfish monster he appears to be when in the car. Then if he wins that race he can thank the team (and Buemi) for their hard work and get back in their good graces.

I really like Vettel and defend him against the Alonso brigade's attempts to diminish his accomplishments. But I'm mad at him for not showing the proper respect for the team that helped make him a champion and the sport itself.



Thanks for your suggestion but I think it is too middle of the road, not a serious penalty when in the past Seb has missed Friday running and it made zero difference to his weekend - (presumably he got Webbers data , but anyway).
Opinion is polarised Seb fans (some exceptions including you obviously) can never ever see that he ever did anything wrong, and the other side is well and truly aware of his sins.

It has to be a serious penalty that hits him hard if you are going to do something, surely sitting out a race makes some sense in terms of re-establishing the veneer of discipline. Lets face it Alonso got zero in Malaysia, so a race off is not crippling for Seb.

Perhaps another alternative would be to give Webber the call at the next ten pitstops? Like the 10 pushup punishment :| I think this would be a more appropriate and public solution.

mymemoryfails

Edited by mymemoryfails, 26 March 2013 - 21:09.


#34 windy1603

windy1603
  • Member

  • 70 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:08

Would it not be poetic justice if his engine or gearbox fails while leading the next race :)

#35 yoyogetfunky

yoyogetfunky
  • Member

  • 856 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:10

I don't recall my reaction to that particular incident. Feel free to find an old thread and check, but whatever I did or didn't write was certainly objective since I like both of the Red Bull drivers and have no axe to grind here.

From a PR perspective Seb needs something besides "we talked about it behind closed door" to restore his image. When you've won three WDCs on the trot it just looks especially greedy to ambush your teammate in the second race of the season. He should want something like this if he cares at all about his legacy and perception.


Your axe seems to be fimly in Vettel though, when Webber didnt even apologise and out in the open said Horner can go **** himself with his team orders. No disciplinary action then against Webber (in fact, he got a contract extension a few weeks later), so I see no reason why it needs to be done (in the open) now. Vettel said he ****ed up, he was sorry. Im sure behind close doors hell try and do more to amend things. Case closed as far as Vettel is concerned. Not what Webbers public outrage is, though. Dont you think Vettel is hugely damaged enough by his hypocritical accusations? The media is all over him, the Vettel haters having a field day at the forums. You dont kick a dog when its on the ground.

#36 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:10

Thanks for your suggestion but I think it is too middle of the road, not a serious penalty when in the past Seb has missed Friday running and it made zero difference to his weekend - (presumably he got Webbers data , but anyway).
Opinion is polarised Seb fans can never ever see that he ever did anything wrong, and the other side is well and truly aware of his sins.

It has to be a serious penalty that hits him hard if you are going to do something, surely sitting out a race makes some sense in terms of re-establishing the veneer of discipline. Lets face it Alonso got zero in Malaysia, so a race off is not crippling for Seb.

Perhaps another alternative would be to give Webber the call at the next ten pitstops? Like the 10 pushup punishment :| I think this would be a more appropriate and public solution.

mymemoryfails

I am sure that all TP's are making notes of your excellent management suggestions how to destroy a winning team in third race of the season.

#37 JeanClaude

JeanClaude
  • Member

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:11

Wow, I'm surprised by the lack of compromise shown here. I expected a reasonable response and the replies make it seem like this idea is ridiculous.

It's an interesting idea but why give an advantage to the opposition when there has just been a bit of problem internally??

Talk about things behind closed doors, go racing and in no time this will be water under the bridge and a non-issue to the average fan.

JC


#38 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:14

Your idea is ridiculous indeed. Vettel is punished enough by enduring the shitstorm, the embarrasing post race ceremonies and interviews and the cold shoulder he got from his team.
The whole team showed poor form in regard to public and internal affairs, from the pit wall to the two drivers. If anything they should show repentance as a unit if they want to repair something.

Also get out of your head that guys like Hamilton and Vettel are normal employees. The difference between them and most of us is that we can easily be replaced by another noname. These guys on the other hand are unicums.


How exactly does that repair anything? You do realize this is going to come to tears if nothing is done, don't you?

And this isn't about Webber. It's about Vettel's relationship with the team as a whole and its team principal. You think the guys in the garage and in the factory are happy with Seb right now? Nobody working as hard as those guys likes a selfish prima donna. I don't believe that's who Seb is and who he wants to be, so he needs to show real contrition.

I didn't say there were "normal" employees, but they are employees nonetheless. Seb is a very rich young man thanks to Red Bull Racing, and he really shouldn't forget that.



Edit: removed apostrophe

Edited by tkulla, 26 March 2013 - 21:16.


#39 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 27,385 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:14

My proposed solution:

Webber issues the following statement: "Having had time to reflect on the incident, and my actions in ignoring team orders in the past, I would like to apologise to the team and to Seb. With the shoe being on the other foot, I now realise that my own ignoring of team orders in the past - in particular, when potentially risking a WDC title for the team that worked so hard for it in Brazil last year - was completely wrong and I accept the part this played in causing the incident in Malaysia. It was wrong of me to react as I did after the race in Malaysia, airing what should have been internal issues in public, especially given the hypocrisy having aired those same issues (but with a completely different take) so publicly after Silverstone in 2011. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Seb and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Seb and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

Vettel issues the following statement: "As at the weekend, I would like to apologise to Mark and the team for my actions in ignoring team orders at Malaysia. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Mark and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Mark and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

Advertisement

#40 Ze Bum

Ze Bum
  • Member

  • 495 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:15

Rename his car Horny Hans. That should keep him uncomfortable for a while.


#41 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:17

Given them both some charity work with young kids.

#42 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,679 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:18

Wow, I'm surprised by the lack of compromise shown here. I expected a reasonable response and the replies make it seem like this idea is ridiculous. What Vettel did is in my mind a fireable offense, much like when Lewis tweeted telemetry last year. These guys are employees and have a responsibility to the team. Humbly accepting a minor punishment like this will allow Vettel to come across as contrite and human, rather than the selfish monster he appears to be when in the car. Then if he wins that race he can thank the team (and Buemi) for their hard work and get back in their good graces.

I really like Vettel and defend him against the Alonso brigade's attempts to diminish his accomplishments. But I'm mad at him for not showing the proper respect for the team that helped make him a champion and the sport itself.



I don't think theese guys are employees. If theye are, they would have an "employment contract" and were protected by some OSH act.

These drivers are rather contracted partners than emloyees. And we don't no what their contracts contains.

Edited by Tarzaan, 26 March 2013 - 21:20.


#43 medb

medb
  • New Member

  • 2 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:22

What Vettel did is in my mind a fireable offense, much like when Lewis tweeted telemetry last year. These guys are employees and have a responsibility to the team.

I guess you have experience firing your firm’s highest achiever for doing his job too aggressively, tkulla? How did that work out for you?

#44 Gagá Bueno

Gagá Bueno
  • Member

  • 360 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:26

My proposed solution:

Webber issues the following statement: "Having had time to reflect on the incident, and my actions in ignoring team orders in the past, I would like to apologise to the team and to Seb. With the shoe being on the other foot, I now realise that my own ignoring of team orders in the past - in particular, when potentially risking a WDC title for the team that worked so hard for it in Brazil last year - was completely wrong and I accept the part this played in causing the incident in Malaysia. It was wrong of me to react as I did after the race in Malaysia, airing what should have been internal issues in public, especially given the hypocrisy having aired those same issues (but with a completely different take) so publicly after Silverstone in 2011. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Seb and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Seb and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

Vettel issues the following statement: "As at the weekend, I would like to apologise to Mark and the team for my actions in ignoring team orders at Malaysia. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Mark and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Mark and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."


:up:

#45 mymemoryfails

mymemoryfails
  • Member

  • 298 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:27

My proposed solution:

Webber issues the following statement: "Having had time to reflect on the incident, and my actions in ignoring team orders in the past, I would like to apologise to the team and to Seb. With the shoe being on the other foot, I now realise that my own ignoring of team orders in the past - in particular, when potentially risking a WDC title for the team that worked so hard for it in Brazil last year - was completely wrong and I accept the part this played in causing the incident in Malaysia. It was wrong of me to react as I did after the race in Malaysia, airing what should have been internal issues in public, especially given the hypocrisy having aired those same issues (but with a completely different take) so publicly after Silverstone in 2011. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Seb and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Seb and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

Vettel issues the following statement: "As at the weekend, I would like to apologise to Mark and the team for my actions in ignoring team orders at Malaysia. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Mark and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Mark and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."



The "moral equivalence" approach is doomed failure.

Why mot ask Seb to apologize for Turkey in 2010 - as far as I know he's never accepted responsibility for that one..Actually for anything... it's always the other guy... the cucumber as one example.

Also you haven't said anything about Seb's benefitting from team orders in the past, calling for team orders to be applied in his favour many times eg. Be Wise, Get him out of the way.

If you want them to own up, make it comprehensive, or about just Malaysia

just my opinion


mymemoryfails

#46 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 4,450 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:28

How exactly does that repair anything? You do realize this is going to come to tears if nothing is done, don't you?

And this isn't about Webber. It's about Vettel's relationship with the team as a whole and its team principal. You think the guys in the garage and in the factory are happy with Seb right now? Nobody working as hard as those guys likes a selfish prima donna. I don't believe that's who Seb is and who he wants to be, so he needs to show real contrition.

I didn't say there were "normal" employees, but they are employees nonetheless. Seb is a very rich young man thanks to Red Bull Racing, and he really shouldn't forget that.



Edit: removed apostrophe


:up:

You seem to be one of the only people that understands the implications of what Seb did on the weekend. I would highly suggest everyone goes and reads Will Buxtons blog post on this whole matter as he explains the bigger picture and not just the 'poor mark' story.

#47 yoyogetfunky

yoyogetfunky
  • Member

  • 856 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:28

My proposed solution:

Webber issues the following statement: "Having had time to reflect on the incident, and my actions in ignoring team orders in the past, I would like to apologise to the team and to Seb. With the shoe being on the other foot, I now realise that my own ignoring of team orders in the past - in particular, when potentially risking a WDC title for the team that worked so hard for it in Brazil last year - was completely wrong and I accept the part this played in causing the incident in Malaysia. It was wrong of me to react as I did after the race in Malaysia, airing what should have been internal issues in public, especially given the hypocrisy having aired those same issues (but with a completely different take) so publicly after Silverstone in 2011. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Seb and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Seb and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

Vettel issues the following statement: "As at the weekend, I would like to apologise to Mark and the team for my actions in ignoring team orders at Malaysia. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Mark and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Mark and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

:up:

#48 BenettonB192

BenettonB192
  • Member

  • 869 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:29

How exactly does that repair anything? You do realize this is going to come to tears if nothing is done, don't you?


They can take out the pressure if they all recognise their mistakes before China friday practice. The guys on the pit wall by acknowledging that they made some questionable tactical decissions that helped **** hitting the fan in the first place then later slamming their number one for simply following the instincts that helped them win 6 titles over the last 3 years. Seb by repeating his apology and promise to behave better. Webber by apologizing for his hooligan outbursts, unnecessary **** stirring and hypocrisy.

And this isn't about Webber. It's about Vettel's relationship with the team as a whole and its team principal. You think the guys in the garage and in the factory are happy with Seb right now? Nobody working as hard as those guys likes a selfish prima donna. I don't believe that's who Seb is and who he wants to be, so he needs to show real contrition.

I didn't say there were "normal" employees, but they are employees nonetheless. Seb is a very rich young man thanks to Red Bull Racing, and he really shouldn't forget that.


I'm sure nobody is more unhappy about the team being unhappy then Seb. Over all the years he has always emphasized how important they are to him.



#49 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:30

My proposed solution:

Webber issues the following statement: "Having had time to reflect on the incident, and my actions in ignoring team orders in the past, I would like to apologise to the team and to Seb. With the shoe being on the other foot, I now realise that my own ignoring of team orders in the past - in particular, when potentially risking a WDC title for the team that worked so hard for it in Brazil last year - was completely wrong and I accept the part this played in causing the incident in Malaysia. It was wrong of me to react as I did after the race in Malaysia, airing what should have been internal issues in public, especially given the hypocrisy having aired those same issues (but with a completely different take) so publicly after Silverstone in 2011. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Seb and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Seb and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

Vettel issues the following statement: "As at the weekend, I would like to apologise to Mark and the team for my actions in ignoring team orders at Malaysia. The most important thing, for the team that has provided Mark and I with such a fantastic car these past years, is that this stops now and that both Mark and I, from this point forwards, comply with instructions from the team. I would like to affirm my full commitment to do this in every race from now on."

I like it.

#50 mymemoryfails

mymemoryfails
  • Member

  • 298 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 26 March 2013 - 21:30

I think the OP deserves credit for trying to find a "middle way". It seems all he gets is scorn by apologists. Not fair or wise in my book.


mymemoryfails