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Predict the Next GP


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Poll: Who will give the next TO? (75 member(s) have cast votes)

Which TO will be given at the 2013 GP of China

  1. Ferrari to Massa to let Alonso through (8 votes [10.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.67%

  2. Ferrari to Massa to hold station behind Alonso (5 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  3. Mercedes to Rosberg to let Hamilton through (2 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

  4. Mercedes to Rosberg to hold station behind Hamilton (3 votes [4.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.00%

  5. RBR to Webber to let Vettel through (2 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

  6. RBR to Webber to hold station behind Vettel (3 votes [4.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.00%

  7. Ferrari to Alonso to let Massa through (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Ferrari to Alonso to hold station behind Massa (2 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

  9. Mercedes to Hamilton to let Rosberg trough (2 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

  10. Mercedes to Hamilton to hold station behind Rosberg (2 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

  11. RBR to Vettel to let Webber through (1 votes [1.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.33%

  12. RBR to Vettel to hold station behind Webber (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  13. All of the above (45 votes [60.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

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#1 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 00:02

The chinese GP is coming and fans can't wait to see the next great display of delta-driving, position holding, car-saving and TOs! This exciting racing event held at the fantastic Shanghai International Circuit, designed by Hermann Tilke will once again be host to an adrenaline-filled strategic contest between some of the most talented team principals in auto-racing. Listen to the likes of Ross Brawn, Stefano Domenicalli and Christian Horner as they guide their cars to collect the most points! See them hold their foreheads as their drivers try to race and restrain them from trying to pass and risk the team's cars. Witness exciting radio conversations such as team orders and order discussions, pace determinations and be the first to decipher secret codes! Witness driver reactions at the podium and press conference and be the first to comment on the exciting happenings on your favorite forum or social network!

*All persons participating in this poll will receive a free copy of the F1 1989 Season DVD, "I was faster than you".

Edited by RealRacing, 27 March 2013 - 00:33.


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#2 Kingshark

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:00

All of the above? Wtf? :lol:

#3 Les

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:54

Predict the next GP?

I'm guessing China?

#4 Red17

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:04

It needs the option [Random Name] causes a massive pile-up on turn 1 and redirects all hatred towards him.

Other than it will be business as usual, there is plenty of time for the teams to sit down and do some, im waiting for another "things happen" picture on the Red Bull page.

Edited by Red17, 27 March 2013 - 11:17.


#5 scheivlak

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:07

"None of the above'' option is missing.

#6 noikeee

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:49

And the drama queen award goes to...

Team orders are as old as the sport itself, as is car/tyre saving. We just had 2 hugely entertaining races with lead changes and fights for the lead (fair or not), a nice mix of unpredictability with a reasonably defined pecking order of teams and drivers, loads of talking points, yet everyone just bitches moans groans complains shouts. It's not perfect and people are right to mention certain things are over the top (ex. tyres bit too much of a factor), but for crying out loud the over-reaction in this board is incredible.

#7 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 15:55

Team orders are as old as the sport itself, as is car/tyre saving.



Appeal to Tradition: (also "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"). The fallacy that a standpoint, situation or action is right, proper and correct simply because it has "always" been that way, because people have "always" thought that way, or because it continues to serve one particular group very well.. A corrupted argument from ethos (that of past generations). (E.g., "In America, women have always been paid less, so let's not mess with long-standing tradition."). The reverse of this is yet another fallacy, the "Appeal to Innovation," e.g., "It's NEW, and [therefore it must be] improved!"

#8 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:05

Pointing out an appeal to tradition fallacy after you have erected the strawman of the decade is funny.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 March 2013 - 16:05.


#9 UPRC

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:06

All of the above, definitely.

#10 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:15

Predict the next GP?

I'm guessing China?


Yep, China

#11 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:16

Pointing out an appeal to tradition fallacy after you have erected the strawman of the decade is funny.


Please elaborate.

#12 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:32

Pastor to DNF and the commentator to keep pronouncing Giedo Van Der Garde wrongly.

#13 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:49

I'll say:


-After Q2, any teammates who both made it into the top 10 will be told to hold position and set the same times which they set in Q2.

-Drivers will ask Charlie to start the race behind the Safety Car, regardless of conditions, so that they can nurse the tyres and so (more importantly) that teams can hold position.

-Sebastian Vettel will ignore the aforementioned SC and give it full beans from lap one. He will quickly lap the field but gets shown the black flag for driving far too quickly behind the safety car. He will finish the race anyway (winning, obviously) and jump onto the podium, spraying champagne and whooping it up with Horner and Webber. When Brundle asks him what in blazes he was thinking for the last 56 laps, Sebastian will apologise to the drivers and FIA, but say that he did not ignore race control deliberately. Vettel's looming DSQ will be lifted, giving him another win. No further action is taken on the incident.

But seriously...

Buemi will stand in as Vettel's teammate since Webber will be having too much fun in Oz to bother flying to Shanghai :cool: .

Edited by PorcupineTroy, 27 March 2013 - 16:52.


#14 Dolph

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:51

The chinese GP is coming and fans can't wait to see the next great display of delta-driving, position holding, car-saving and TOs! This exciting racing event held at the fantastic Shanghai International Circuit, designed by Hermann Tilke will once again be host to an adrenaline-filled strategic contest between some of the most talented team principals in auto-racing. Listen to the likes of Ross Brawn, Stefano Domenicalli and Christian Horner as they guide their cars to collect the most points! See them hold their foreheads as their drivers try to race and restrain them from trying to pass and risk the team's cars. Witness exciting radio conversations such as team orders and order discussions, pace determinations and be the first to decipher secret codes! Witness driver reactions at the podium and press conference and be the first to comment on the exciting happenings on your favorite forum or social network!

*All persons participating in this poll will receive a free copy of the F1 1989 Season DVD, "I was faster than you".


:clap: :rotfl:

#15 mnmracer

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 16:52

I'll say:


-After Q2, any teammates who both made it into the top 10 will be told to hold position and set the same times which they set in Q2.

-Drivers will ask Charlie to start the race behind the Safety Car, regardless of conditions, so that they can nurse the tyres and so (more importantly) that teams can hold position.

-Sebastian Vettel will ignore the aforementioned SC and give it full beans from lap one. He will quickly lap the field but gets shown the black flag for driving far too quickly behind the safety car. He will finish the race anyway (winning, obviously) and jump onto the podium, spraying champagne and whooping it up with Horner and Webber. When Brundle asks him what in blazes he was thinking for the last 56 laps, Sebastian will apologise to the drivers and FIA, but say that he did not ignore race control deliberately. Vettel's looming DSQ will be lifted, giving him another win. No further action is taken on the incident.

But seriously...

Buemi will stand in as Vettel's teammate since Webber will be having too much fun in Oz to bother flying to Shanghai :cool: .

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
:clap: :clap: :clap:
You sir, win the internet.

Edited by mnmracer, 27 March 2013 - 16:53.


#16 noikeee

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 17:00

Appeal to Tradition: (also "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"). The fallacy that a standpoint, situation or action is right, proper and correct simply because it has "always" been that way, because people have "always" thought that way, or because it continues to serve one particular group very well.. A corrupted argument from ethos (that of past generations). (E.g., "In America, women have always been paid less, so let's not mess with long-standing tradition."). The reverse of this is yet another fallacy, the "Appeal to Innovation," e.g., "It's NEW, and [therefore it must be] improved!"


Fine but that's not my argument. My argument is that team orders have been banned, allowed, banned, allowed and back and forth, and they just do not go away because they're logical from the teams' point of view and will always be. It's not a matter of tradition and mantaining the status quo, it's a matter of living in the real world and knowing an utopia of 100% fair competition between team-mates can never exist.

Regarding car/tyres, you can go back to a early-2000s kind of racing with refuelling, indestructible tyres and new engines/gearboxes every race, with pushing hard every lap, little regard for tyre tactics. I personally was not a fan, that was the most boring era of the sport ever, much rather liked the 1980s dynamics of races when they had to save the car. Again not a matter of tradition but personal preference. I do realise what we have now isn't exactly the 1980s, but it's the most fun version of F1 I've ever seen. Not perfect, I would like about 1 pitstop less per race, I would like the drivers to have the choice to drive a bit closer to the limit and not get punished so severely, I would like the mandatory use of the 2 compound rule to go away, but it's not THAT bad. The races are fun to watch, and the best drivers and teams continue to rise to the top. What's the big drama?

#17 apoka

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 17:01

The chinese GP is coming and fans can't wait to see the next great display of delta-driving, position holding, car-saving and TOs! This exciting racing event held at the fantastic Shanghai International Circuit, designed by Hermann Tilke will once again be host to an adrenaline-filled strategic contest between some of the most talented team principals in auto-racing. Listen to the likes of Ross Brawn, Stefano Domenicalli and Christian Horner as they guide their cars to collect the most points! See them hold their foreheads as their drivers try to race and restrain them from trying to pass and risk the team's cars. Witness exciting radio conversations such as team orders and order discussions, pace determinations and be the first to decipher secret codes! Witness driver reactions at the podium and press conference and be the first to comment on the exciting happenings on your favorite forum or social network!

:rotfl:

In other news: Delta racing (http://www.delta-racing.co.uk) plans to join F1 in 2014 being convinced that they have all the mathematical expertise to win with tyre limited cars at the slowest speed possible.


#18 Sakae

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 17:43

Dr. Marko is now being quoted that everything is fine in the House of RB, thus no drama between Seb and Webber should be expected. I am not sure what Rosberg will do though, if he is told second time No (to take a lead over his teammate)! Race results are unpredictable, but Hamilton allegedly said, we are No. 2, Ferrari could perform well, Lotus might come back, and Rosberg definitely wants "one more time". Seb on the other hand, I am sure, will want to seek a quiet place on his own, undisturbed, preferably several seconds ahead of P2. Just another day at the office... :D

#19 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 18:21

Fine but that's not my argument. My argument is that team orders have been banned, allowed, banned, allowed and back and forth, and they just do not go away because they're logical from the teams' point of view and will always be. It's not a matter of tradition and mantaining the status quo, it's a matter of living in the real world and knowing an utopia of 100% fair competition between team-mates can never exist.

Regarding car/tyres, you can go back to a early-2000s kind of racing with refuelling, indestructible tyres and new engines/gearboxes every race, with pushing hard every lap, little regard for tyre tactics. I personally was not a fan, that was the most boring era of the sport ever, much rather liked the 1980s dynamics of races when they had to save the car. Again not a matter of tradition but personal preference. I do realise what we have now isn't exactly the 1980s, but it's the most fun version of F1 I've ever seen. Not perfect, I would like about 1 pitstop less per race, I would like the drivers to have the choice to drive a bit closer to the limit and not get punished so severely, I would like the mandatory use of the 2 compound rule to go away, but it's not THAT bad. The races are fun to watch, and the best drivers and teams continue to rise to the top. What's the big drama?


Now we are talking. Once we have established that, "TOs have always been there and therefore will always be" is not a valid argument, we can continue. Has it occured to you that maybe the reason the TO ban hasn't worked is because it hasn't been correctly implemented? And that maybe, given the right measures it can work (at least better than the farce we had last race with TOs allowed?). I have written some ideas in more detail in many threads lately but, summing up, strengthening the Association of F1 drivers, increasing punishment and decreasing tolerance for TOs and controlling pit to car communication would be some of them. I know perfect competition would be almost impossible to achieve, but I believe F1 can do better than what we have seen so far and especially in the last race. If you ask me, at least in 2010 the TOs were done at the 10th race of the year (still far too soon but not the 2nd race!), the fan's uproar after HH and Ferrari TOs was huge and, even though they tried to hide it, at least the drivers were ashamed.

Regarding car/tyres, I think our positions are closer than we thought at first. I think no refuelling is great as it eliminates the weight difference variable and potentially allows for more racing on track. Limited engines and gear boxes is crazy IMO as you penalize a driver (and the fans) for a car failure. Give them the chance to have a new one each race so that they can actually push and race. What I want as a fan, is to have the highest probability of watching great racing every race: that means the best drivers and machines in the best possible conditions (same argument goes for parc ferme rules). I agree on the mandatory use of compounds, it's just a measure taken so that Pirelli can save some money. Finally, of course different compounds is fine (as long as you let them choose what they want) and degrading is normal, as is a certain kind of tyre management (if, for example, strategically, you want to reduce your number of stops). But the tyre should allow them to push at close to maximum for a certain number of laps, not have to manage them from the get-go, allow them to race (meaning passing and re-pasing, blocking, sliding, etc., you know, what used to be the good stuff) for as long as possible without destroying them and, certainly, not being the reason for a TO.

The big drama is an exaggeration of course, but I hope you knew that...

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#20 Schumacher7

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 18:27

Rosberg pole and win, second will be unexpected, Hamilton third.
Truth.

#21 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 18:46

Interesting to see that, even after all that happened last weekend the "This is ridiculous" combo is still the most popular for TOs...

#22 mnmracer

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 18:51

Interesting to see that, even after all that happened last weekend the "This is ridiculous" combo is still the most popular for TOs...

Well, if we extrapolate (based on two races), then we had 1 TO in Australia, 2 TOs in Malaysia, and thus either 3 (add 1, or sum of all before) or 4 (last times 2) TOs in China.
Nothing ridiculous about that :p

Though, since we've now had FI, RB and Merc, I am guessing either Sauber or Williams or Torro Rosso and both Lotus and Ferrari. If it's 4, it should be one of the backmarker teams.

#23 RealRacing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 19:12

Well, if we extrapolate (based on two races), then we had 1 TO in Australia, 2 TOs in Malaysia, and thus either 3 (add 1, or sum of all before) or 4 (last times 2) TOs in China.
Nothing ridiculous about that :p

Though, since we've now had FI, RB and Merc, I am guessing either Sauber or Williams or Torro Rosso and both Lotus and Ferrari. If it's 4, it should be one of the backmarker teams.


I guess the only TO we'll hear from a backmarker is, "I don't care if you break the car or crash into your teammate, make it to the top ten!"

And maybe we'll get to listen to some creative new things:


"SamuBaby, I repeat, SAMUBaby. Felipe can you confirm you understood...", or "Multi 12, Felipe"...

"Eggs fried, Eggs fried, PussyBrit, BritPussy negative."

"Radio problems, can't hear you, can't hear you."

".....", "No", "Shut up".





#24 Fulcrum

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 19:49

Fake Lotus to Grosjean to let Raikkee through

#25 Otaku

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 20:30

None of the above.

#26 ryan86

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 00:07

If Felipe finishes ahead of Fernando I'll be happy. Part of me really wants to hear a "Fernando, Felipe is faster than you" message later in the season.

#27 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:28

Never really read the OP until now, top stuff! :clap: :up: