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Bahrain 2013 - what is the situation this year?


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#1 RC127

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 20:21

http://www.dailymail...ula-1-race.html

http://www.cnn.com/2...bahrain-medics/

http://www.bna.bh/po.../en/news/554140

http://www.presstv.i...ner-opposition/

A flavour of the current situation in Bahrain - from sources as dubious as the "Daily Fail" and the frankly propagandist Bahrain News Agency, but with more balanced views from CNN, etc.

As someone who supported the abandonment of the grand prix in 2011 and boycotted the event last year - I didn't watch a single minute of practice, qualy, the race or GP2 - things seem to be a bit quieter this year (to the point I will probably watch this time).

Anyone know any reasons why I shouldn't?



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#2 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 20:30

I'd be more concerned about Korea than Bahrain, I personally neither see not saw a reason to boycott Bahrain, F1 remains A political as it should! But entering a potential warzone in Korea would be a bad move

#3 Shiroo

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 20:34

http://www.dailymail...ula-1-race.html

http://www.cnn.com/2...bahrain-medics/

http://www.bna.bh/po.../en/news/554140

http://www.presstv.i...ner-opposition/

A flavour of the current situation in Bahrain - from sources as dubious as the "Daily Fail" and the frankly propagandist Bahrain News Agency, but with more balanced views from CNN, etc.

As someone who supported the abandonment of the grand prix in 2011 and boycotted the event last year - I didn't watch a single minute of practice, qualy, the race or GP2 - things seem to be a bit quieter this year (to the point I will probably watch this time).

Anyone know any reasons why I shouldn't?

well actually no.

if you wouldn't you could also apply the same reasoning to US GP, cuz of Gunatamo and going on crusade all over world for bringing democracy, ****in up the country and then leaving it saying how succesful the mission was while more people are dying there than it was before the "Peace Mission"

or China and how human-friendly and how greatly respected are human rights there

or Korea cuz they are eating cars and dogs

or India cuz they respect women so much and there are no rape incidents happening at all!

or Canada... because they are Canada and there are Canadians living there.



On a bit more serious note. You could go with similar reasoning with every country (almost). Especially that countries like Egypt used to be WAYYYYYY MOREEEE normal before all that revolution and ****. ANd similar to other countries that went through all that revolution, if I can be honest, for me, they are even stranger than they used to be (for a man from Europe ofc). You need to consider that CNN for example were saying how super it gonna be when revolution will end in Egypt... and well it ain't that colorful.

So I would take what CNNs report with a pinch of salt. THey are pretty biased towards these revolutions and as far as I can say they didn't go as succesful as they supposed to go.



PS. Canadians and Canada in general -> I love you. It was just a joke (though I don't understand, why when someone bump you by accident you rush to guns to say sorry first, though it was clearly his fault).

Edited by Shiroo, 31 March 2013 - 20:39.


#4 ANF

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 21:33

"This is a letter that Zainab al-Khawaja, a human rights activist and political prisoner in Bahrain, wrote from jail. ... Zainab went on a hunger strike recently, after being denied family visits in jail."
http://kristof.blogs...ike-in-bahrain/

Edited by ANF, 31 March 2013 - 21:33.


#5 ClubmanGT

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 21:39

well actually no.

if you wouldn't you could also apply the same reasoning to US GP, cuz of Gunatamo and going on crusade all over world for bringing democracy, ****in up the country and then leaving it saying how succesful the mission was while more people are dying there than it was before the "Peace Mission"

or China and how human-friendly and how greatly respected are human rights there

or Korea cuz they are eating cars and dogs

or India cuz they respect women so much and there are no rape incidents happening at all!

or Canada... because they are Canada and there are Canadians living there.


Er, when one of those places has their circuit staff kicked out of their offices by the Royal Police and beaten as they're dumped into the street, then it might be a fair comparison. The people tasked with putting on the event were directly targeted by the crackdown on dissidence. Turning around and expecting them to put on a show so the people who kicked the snot out of them and fired them for no reason can rub shoulders with the world's elite is something that doesn't really apply in India, Korea or China. It's disgusting and the circuit staff are as much a part of the Formula One family as the people paying the bills, and the teams should stand by them.

I get you on Canada though, that place is messed up.

#6 darkkis

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 22:34

I'd be more concerned about Korea than Bahrain, I personally neither see not saw a reason to boycott Bahrain, F1 remains A political as it should! But entering a potential warzone in Korea would be a bad move

North Korea is nothing to be taken seriously tbh. Their army is in stone age, infrastructure non existent, no long range nuclear weapons... They're just playing the tough guy.

#7 Ravenak

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 22:36

Hypocrisy incoming :)

#8 Deluxx

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 22:38

I'm not really sure if I was a race driver or crew member I would feel comfortable going there. Specially after the fire bombing last year... But if I'm being paid crazy amounts of (dollars/pounds/whatever they give seb to get treats from the vending machines) I wouldn't mind getting a fat paycheck and catching the next Gulf Air jet out of there.

#9 jrg19

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 22:41

Are we really going to have another thread on this and another one next year?

Where is the pre Chinese GP thread, or does it only apply to Bahrain?

#10 Juggles

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:13

well actually no.

if you wouldn't you could also apply the same reasoning to US GP, cuz of Gunatamo and going on crusade all over world for bringing democracy, ****in up the country and then leaving it saying how succesful the mission was while more people are dying there than it was before the "Peace Mission"

or China and how human-friendly and how greatly respected are human rights there

or Korea cuz they are eating cars and dogs

or India cuz they respect women so much and there are no rape incidents happening at all!

or Canada... because they are Canada and there are Canadians living there.



On a bit more serious note. You could go with similar reasoning with every country (almost). Especially that countries like Egypt used to be WAYYYYYY MOREEEE normal before all that revolution and ****. ANd similar to other countries that went through all that revolution, if I can be honest, for me, they are even stranger than they used to be (for a man from Europe ofc). You need to consider that CNN for example were saying how super it gonna be when revolution will end in Egypt... and well it ain't that colorful.

So I would take what CNNs report with a pinch of salt. THey are pretty biased towards these revolutions and as far as I can say they didn't go as succesful as they supposed to go.



PS. Canadians and Canada in general -> I love you. It was just a joke (though I don't understand, why when someone bump you by accident you rush to guns to say sorry first, though it was clearly his fault).


Indeed, Egypt is a complete mess. A very good family friend lives there (she's married to an Egyptian man) and sent us this article, written by a friend of hers:

Egypt renaissance

#11 finignig

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:28

Guess its time of the year where am active again lol, hey guys :wave:

Brief rundown of related points to the situation in Bahrain

- Nothing changed much politically since last year, except appointing the Crowne Prince (only ray of hope) as deputy prime minister (the dude who’s been in power for 42 years), this took place recently and is seen (optimistically) as a steping stone towards removing the prime minister and opening a direct dialogue between the opposition and the royal family (unlike the current “dialogue).

- Situation on the ground is slightly worse than last year, deaths continue, Latest one this past weekend from gas inhalation, we have daily small protests in villages that get tear gassed, and semi weekly big ones - usually one “authorized” by the goverment and organized by the opposition coalition, and another in a close by area by the Feb 14 youth - who simply try to go back to where lulu used to be and ending up in clashes and injuries or death.

- There is a much stronger activity AGAINST the race by the FEB 14 youth while the opposition coalition is taking the diplomatic stance like last year, there is at least daily road blocking acts under the slogan “No to Formula Blood”, and mind you they are getting really good at it, REAAALLLY good at it.

Dont know what else is relevant, everything else is out there on the web. and by that I suggest searching Bahrain on twitter on facebook rather than the same rehashed news articles that provide no information and continue to try hammering the idea that it’s sectarian conflict.

Edited by finignig, 01 April 2013 - 08:36.


#12 finignig

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:34

So I would take what CNNs report with a pinch of salt. THey are pretty biased towards these revolutions and as far as I can say they didn't go as succesful as they supposed to go.


We take CNN’s reports with a pinch of salt too, because they are clearly biased towards the current corrupt regime, example is not broadcasting their own documentary on Bahrain which was done by journalist Amber Lyon; look it up, it lead to her leaving CNN and being disillusioned with mainstream media in general. Therefore I find your comment hilarious, every single middle easterner knows for a fact that not a single mainstream news outlet has the interest of the people or “revolution” at heart. It is a much bigger game at play.



#13 Nonesuch

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:40

Good to hear from you again, finignig. :up:

As someone who supported the abandonment of the grand prix in 2011 and boycotted the event last year - I didn't watch a single minute of practice, qualy, the race or GP2 - things seem to be a bit quieter this year (to the point I will probably watch this time).

Anyone know any reasons why I shouldn't?

Yes, it's 'a bit quieter'. It's also rather obvious why that is. Protesting was already highly risky, and became even more so after it was officially banned late last year. Add to that the risk of having your citizenship revoked, and of course the military intervention of Saudi Arabia.

But anyway, Bahrain is indeed but one of many countries that you'd want to avoid if you object to races in countries that have committed flagrant violations of human rights (as stipulated by the United Nations) in the last few years; the Chinese People's Republic, United Kingdom and the United States to name but a few. However, at least there you could argue that the Grand Prix and the country as a whole are of such different magnitudes that the two are not necessarily intimately related. In Bahrain the F1 race seems little more than a PR-campaign for the state and ruling government.

Edited by Nonesuch, 01 April 2013 - 08:45.


#14 MinT

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:41

As someone who supported the abandonment of the grand prix in 2011 and boycotted the event last year - I didn't watch a single minute of practice, qualy, the race or GP2 - things seem to be a bit quieter this year (to the point I will probably watch this time).

Anyone know any reasons why I shouldn't?



Well if you felt strongly enough to "boycott" it last year (bet that hurt em) - then nothing has really changed this year - so why would you watch now ? Or are your ideals that easy to forget and breakdown ? The situation in the country is the same.

armchair activists eh ? :lol:

#15 Sin

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:49

Bahrain is trackwise one of my favorites, with Singapur and (the gone) Valencia ...

hope wont be dangerous.... but isn't Korea more dangerous this year?

#16 muramasa

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:54


if it's safe for F1 personnel, go there, if not dont go.
do care situation and condition for local people as well of course but that's separate issue.

if it's safe enough, i woiuldnt mind one bit about racing in North Korea. urban race in those massive streets of central Pyongyang would be quite something.


#17 muramasa

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:54

but isn't Korea more dangerous this year?

nah.



#18 Nonesuch

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:57

hope wont be dangerous.... but isn't Korea more dangerous this year?

Yeongam is in the middle of nowhere in the far south of the Korean peninsula, and an unlikely target of anything. That is supposing the North Koreans are even capable of launching any kind of lasting attack. They might be able to fire a few rockets here and there, but their missile technology is rather abysmal and analysts of the communist state think it's unlikely it could feed even its own troops for more than a few days in case of an attack on South Korea. The South Koreans, meanwhile, don't seem to care too much. It seems to be just the Americans who are in 'OMG! What about Guam?'-mode.

#19 finignig

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:35

A selection of videos from this past week to give you a clearer idea of the situation.

Mission named “The warning” - as in the warning to F1, burning a car on the main road leading to the track, they never managed getting this close before



A protest against F1 in the village of Jidhafs, chanting "No to the Dictator’s* race” - *more like a**hole, cant think of an english word with similar meaning lol.



Tear gassing Sitra 28-3, interesting video, each round is a tear gas canister, this here is exactly what goes on in every village in Bahrain during the F1 weekend.



What clashes look like, from this week.


Edited by finignig, 01 April 2013 - 09:43.


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#20 Vieras

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:03

It's good to keep in mind that Bahrain GP is probably the only way the rebels get any global media coverage for their cause and you would think that they don't want to alienate most of the western world by attacking F1 crew or fans.

#21 finignig

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:15

It's good to keep in mind that Bahrain GP is probably the only way the rebels get any global media coverage for their cause and you would think that they don't want to alienate most of the western world by attacking F1 crew or fans.


Off course, but derailing the event, postponing it, or ruining it will gather even more exposure, and that is what they are aiming for, after last year’s peaceful protest caused a stir just during the F1 weekend and quickly forgotten by the world media by the following Tuesday.

#22 jjcale

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:26

We take CNN’s reports with a pinch of salt too, because they are clearly biased towards the current corrupt regime, example is not broadcasting their own documentary on Bahrain which was done by journalist Amber Lyon; look it up, it lead to her leaving CNN and being disillusioned with mainstream media in general. Therefore I find your comment hilarious, every single middle easterner knows for a fact that not a single mainstream news outlet has the interest of the people or “revolution” at heart. It is a much bigger game at play.


The amazing thing about the cover up of Amber Lyon's documentary is not so much that CNN were guilty of it, but that the story of the cover up has only been covered by Alex Jones, Joe Rogan and Russia Today... as well as a few even less well known alternative media outlets.

The first interview that Amber Lyons gave after she left CNN to Alex Jones has to be seen to be believed. CNN Caught Producing "State Sponsored News" in Bahrain

The fact that the only media of any size to follow up on this was RT (which clearly has its own agenda. Joe Rogan has a very niche audience - probably less than 50,000) says to me that we who are outside of Bahrain really dont know what is going on there as our main media (including, probably, our F1 media) are not giving us a full piture and probably not a fair picture ... and so I thank you for giving us your info, so that we are at least imformed... even if the info seems to make some uncomfortable.


#23 jjcale

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:30

Are we really going to have another thread on this and another one next year?

Where is the pre Chinese GP thread, or does it only apply to Bahrain?


I understand that it is difficult to see a distinction between Bahrain and China (and some other places that F1 goes to). For me the difference is that we know the majority of the population of Bahrain have made it clear by risking life and limb in protests that they reject the regime and they had to be repressed using brute force. In other places one can only guess how much support the govt has, and the govt does not stay in power only by the use of force. There are lots of questionable regimes around the world but IMO taking the two reasons together it is my view that Bahrain has crossed the threshold of political illegitimacy.... and I cannot think of any other place where F1 races that a similar situation applies.

China is also an openly authoritarian regime ... but, though the human rights record is quite poor, it seems to have broad popular support among the people of China. This is a key difference from Bahrain.

#24 RC127

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:34

Good to hear from you again, finignig. :up:

In Bahrain the F1 race seems little more than a PR-campaign for the state and ruling government.


:up: Yes, glad to hear from finignig indeed, and thanks for the feedback.

The second point - well that's the problem really isn't it - yes, other countries may not have the greatest human rights records (incl. some in the developed, "western" world) but their races aren't used by the oppressing regime to say "look world, look how friendly and cuddly and nice we are" whilst they are secretly putting down peaceful protests by its citizens with sickening and completely disproportionate brutality.

Hmm, starting to have moral butterflies about whether I should watch the race weekend again...

#25 MrFondue

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:48

Yeongam is in the middle of nowhere in the far south of the Korean peninsula, and an unlikely target of anything. That is supposing the North Koreans are even capable of launching any kind of lasting attack. They might be able to fire a few rockets here and there, but their missile technology is rather abysmal and analysts of the communist state think it's unlikely it could feed even its own troops for more than a few days in case of an attack on South Korea. The South Koreans, meanwhile, don't seem to care too much. It seems to be just the Americans who are in 'OMG! What about Guam?'-mode.


They got a good number of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul (probably around 2000), so that will be the only kind of real attack they could pull of. Their vehicles would run out of fuel within in a day.

#26 Kucki

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:05

http://www.presstv.i...ows-in-bahrain/

http://www.presstv.i...rtured-in-jail/

http://www.presstv.i...ar-gas-at-demo/

#27 finignig

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:13

Good to hear from you again, finignig. :up:



:up: Yes, glad to hear from finignig indeed, and thanks for the feedback.


Thanks guys :wave:

#28 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:16

I don't need another empty spot and an empty, boring weekend! race goddamit! :p

#29 Amphicar

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:33

I don't need another empty spot and an empty, boring weekend! race goddamit! :p

Glad you've got your priorities right (even if you haven't got a life)

#30 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:40

Glad you've got your priorities right (even if you haven't got a life)


if you look carefully at the ":p" you'll know how serious i am.

sorry.

Edited by TheWilliamzer, 01 April 2013 - 12:40.


#31 BRG

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 13:35

Two reasons not to go to Bahrain.

1) Disgusting bloodthirsty government suppressing all resistance from its citizens.

And, if that doesn't bother you (as it doesn't seem to bother quite a few people who enjoy lives of freedom but don't care if others are repressed, tortured and murdered)

2) Disgusting race track in middle of desert.

Oh, and I've thought of a third reason:

3) To piss off the disgusting little man Ecclestone.

#32 tarmac

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 16:40

There is not even any talk of it being cancelled and its less than three weeks.

They will just put a military crackdown and it will be fine

#33 Risil

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 18:20

Good to see you back here, Finignig. :)

For those late to this particular party: BBC country profile.

Over the years the country enjoyed increasing freedom of expression, and monitors said the human rights situation had improved.

However, in early 2011 the government called in the Saudi military to crush protests by demonstrators demanding a greater say in government and an end to what Shias say is systematic discrimination against them in jobs and services.

Thousands of demonstrators gathered for several days in the centre of Manama, inspired by the popular uprisings which toppled the leaders of Tunisia and Egypt. Several people were killed in clashes with security forces.

Despite the crackdown, Shia resentment has continued to simmer, sporadically erupting in anti-government protests. The controversial decision to allow Bahrain to host the Formula 1 Grand Prix in April 2012 further galvanised protests.


Worth pointing out here that the BBC's country profile of China doesn't see the Chinese GP (or even the Olympics) as remarkable enough to include.

This article (also from the BBC) backs up Finignig's analysis of the sitch in Bahrain. Main opposition group Al-Wefaq are still interested in talks with the reformist Crown Prince Salman al-Khalifa (the bloke behind the Grand Prix, who we saw during Friday practice coverage last year). But so long as legitimate protesters are being shot at, imprisoned and tortured, while Shias are discriminated against in and outside of government services -- and while the courts continue to give the authorities a more or less free pass to continue -- there's the risk of revolutionaries breaking off and forming less peaceful movements.

Here's a good article from Prof. Amy Austin Holmes on Bahrain's political stagnation. Bahrain has been described as an occupied country, but Holmes argues the monarchy has more control of things than that. "Talks" and "dialogue" are mostly for show, to allow America and Britain to claim Progress Is Being Made while they continue to pursue stability (and arms sales) at all costs. Which is very convenient, because that's what the Royal Family wants!

What's this got to do with the Grand Prix? It's part of the regime's programme to control its image on the island and abroad. Bernie Ecclestone, meet Kim Kardashian. No other Grand Prix in the modern era has had an accompanying political sloganeering campaign, possibly because the FIA's own statutes seem to forbid it.

Posted Image

But equally, Bahrain denies entry to NGOs, MEPs, journalists and activists; its propagandists aggressively chase critics of the regime on Twitter; and whenever possible the state plugs its own utterly erroneous narrative of Iran-backed Shia militants trying to turn Manama into the next Sadr City.

So as far as I can see, we've got a good justification for discussing politics on here, as far as it relates to 1) the Bahrain ruling family's behaviour, as promoters of the Grand Prix, and 2) the Grand Prix's relationship with propaganda disseminated by the regime. As we found out in last year's thread, that licensed discussion on, er, pretty much everything.

Edited by Risil, 01 April 2013 - 20:00.


#34 Risil

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 18:34

There is not even any talk of it being cancelled and its less than three weeks.


Indeed, things have been much quieter, at least in the specialist media. The biggest concern is undoubtedly violent revolutionary groups who feel disenfrachised both by the government and the non-progress of the (relatively) formal and (relatively) liberal opposition. The danger of F1 being "caught in the crossfire" is real so long as there are protests, as the Force India team demonstrated in 2012, but if the Grand Prix is targeted specifically then that's a different thing altogether.

#35 BullHead

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 19:57

Well last year wasn't as safe as it should have been. Less media reportage this year, so I don't know.
I didn't think last year should have gone ahead, but it pulled off reasonably ok, without too much bother.
If they managed that, they'll manage it again.
So far, I say go on.

Edited by BullHead, 01 April 2013 - 19:58.


#36 jjcale

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 23:55

Anti-government protestors clash with police in Manama

They are getting ready for the GP. Each side in its own way.... I love the way that the Bahraini authorities have managed to give themselves an annual PR black eye by insisting on carrying on hosting the GP

Edited by jjcale, 04 April 2013 - 23:56.


#37 ANF

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:48

The documentary by Amber Lyon et al. was aired on CNN US and can be seen here:

http://cnnpressroom....o-the-guardian/
http://www.guardian....ring-repression

#38 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:53

It seems like little(anything?) has changed but this year it's not a story for some reason.

#39 noikeee

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:58

It seems like little(anything?) has changed but this year it's not a story for some reason.


Media saturation. You can only repeat the same story in the news a certain amount of times before the readers/watchers get bored.

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#40 BullHead

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:00

Because it's an old story. You know what the media are like. Until the protesters up the ante somehow not much is going to be made of it. The F1 visit is their opportunity though, for better or worse.

#41 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:25

A year later is enough to write a story or two. It's not like Syria which has actually exhausted the news cycle.

And what's more, there's been so little to write about F1 since the Malaysia controversy died down, you'd think some of the newspaper people would at least write a "Will Bahrain be a problem again?" piece.

#42 Jackman

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:28

The problem is it's a story which falls between two stools: the sports guys don't pay attention to politics and conflict, while the real journalists don't pay attention to sport.

#43 jjcale

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:30

The documentary by Amber Lyon et al. was aired on CNN US and can be seen here:

http://cnnpressroom....o-the-guardian/
http://www.guardian....ring-repression

Gee .... I wonder why Amber Lyon and others who worked on the documentary quit CNN and then went round saying the opposite of what CNN is now claiming.

I know who I believe.

By the way Amber Lyon pre CNN:

2006 – Emmy Award, Rocky Mountain Southwest Chapter: feature news report within 24 hours
2007 – Emmy Award, Rocky Mountain Southwest Chapter: best on-camera talent
2008 – Emmy Award, Rocky Mountain Southwest Chapter: best on-camera talent

She is not some mug.

#44 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:39

The problem is it's a story which falls between two stools: the sports guys don't pay attention to politics and conflict, while the real journalists don't pay attention to sport.


The broadsheets were pretty good about it last year, and the Times in particular bumps stuff into real news if it's relevant. So there's plenty of opportunity for them to do a "hey, what's up" that can either fill the sports of the world news section.

Their coverage image today is some pregnant posh girl playing basketball, so it's not like they don't have room.

#45 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 13:34

Well some of CNN's claims are reasonable, like if the program was made for CNN US and was never intended to be broadcast internationally, etc.

#46 jjcale

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 13:42

Well some of CNN's claims are reasonable, like if the program was made for CNN US and was never intended to be broadcast internationally, etc.


... except that that was not so.

[o/t]

#47 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 13:49

Well what's the counter-factual to that claim then?

I'm not an expert on the CNN dispute but I'm more inclined to believe the broadcaster about their scheduling plans than someone like Glen Greenwald.

#48 jjcale

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:19

Well what's the counter-factual to that claim then?

I'm not an expert on the CNN dispute but I'm more inclined to believe the broadcaster about their scheduling plans than someone like Glen Greenwald.


Well I believe Lyon and the members of the team that worked with her over the suits at CNN... and Greenwald over CNN ... Alex Jones over CNN... and pretty much anyone over CNN

faked reports from Gulf War 1

faked report from Libya two years ago

faked report from Syria last year

Youre a media guy, surely you know about this ....

And I promise for the last time [/OT] ... anybody who wants to take the word of the suits at CNN over that of the folks who actually worked on the project is free to do so.... not gonna labour the point further.

Edited by jjcale, 05 April 2013 - 16:22.


#49 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:32

You're going to lose any and all credibility using Alex Jones as an argument. And what would Greenwald know about CNN's internal decisions? If there's a dispute between CNN management and CNN employees/contractors/whatever there's going to be bits that are true and untrue on both sides.

#50 jjcale

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:38

You're going to lose any and all credibility using Alex Jones as an argument. And what would Greenwald know about CNN's internal decisions? If there's a dispute between CNN management and CNN employees/contractors/whatever there's going to be bits that are true and untrue on both sides.

Pavlovian response.... Lyons' first and most detailed interview as to what she said took place was given on Jones' radio show ... and is linked earlier in the thread.

... and yes, I maintain, CNN are that bad. If they have a dispute with Jones, pending the evidence, I am inclined to go with Jones' version.

But in this case its not Jones v CNN its Lyons v CNN ... and there is no reason to doubt her credibility ... but there are lots of reasons not to believe CNN.

Edited by jjcale, 05 April 2013 - 16:43.