173 replies to this topic

[Requiem84]

Dutch female racing driver Beitske Visser was recently signed by the RB junior team. She joins the likes of Antonio Felix Da Costa, Tom Blomqvist and Carlos Sainz Jr.

http://www.redbull.c...001243333526410

Beitske is fairly succesful, winning some races in the Formel ADAC category, but she doesn't have the blistering pace of some other youngsters like Max Verstappen. Are female drivers/talents signed for their true talent, or only for their marketing value? What do you think?

Do female drivers really have a chance to be competetive in Formula 1 nowadays?

Here she crashed at Zandvoort due to failing brakes. She broke her back in this incident. The next race she still competed and won, with a broken back.

[DarthWillie]

She's quite good, won her first car race in the dutch supercar challenge. If it is enough???????????? Good they give her a shot.

[Adelaide]

I'm a female F1 fan and would love to see a woman make it. I do have queries when it comes to physical differences though. The drivers do have to do quite a bit of work in the gym to be at a certain level of fitness, espcially when it comes to their neck muscles. Would a female driver be significantly disadvantaged in this regard?

[Race2win]

Well if she been signed up by RB then she must see some potential, if not a lot, rather than just marketing. Definitely something if it can be channeled in the righ direction. They are already quite successful with the their junior drivers program, they dont really need to resort to gimmicks.

[Requiem84]

She's quite good, won her first car race in the dutch supercar challenge. If it is enough???????????? Good they give her a shot.

With the current Pirelli's and no refueling it is easier for a woman to get into F1 I'd say. The drivers are no longer flatout for the whole race, and because of the refueling, the cars are substantially slower for a large part of the race (hence lower G-forces). The only real physical strength test would be qualifying, where G-forces are highest.

Good luck to Beitske, let's keep an eye on her. She seems to be a modest and a little bit shy girl:

[rhukkas]

Dutch female racing driver Beitske Visser was recently signed by the RB junior team. She joins the likes of Antonio Felix Da Costa, Tom Blomqvist and Carlos Sainz Jr.

http://www.redbull.c...001243333526410

Beitske is fairly succesful, winning some races in the Formel ADAC category, but she doesn't have the blistering pace of some other youngsters like Max Verstappen. Are female drivers/talents signed for their true talent, or only for their marketing value? What do you think?

Do female drivers really have a chance to be competetive in Formula 1 nowadays?

Here she crashed at Zandvoort due to failing brakes. She broke her back in this incident. The next race she still competed and won, with a broken back.

Max's dad is/was a legendary karter so he has had that extra boost.

She led the KZ1 World Ciup (defacto World Championship), which by most F1 drivers account is more physically demanding than modern f1. She's as close to the real deal as you are going to get.

[rhukkas]

I'm a female F1 fan and would love to see a woman make it. I do have queries when it comes to physical differences though. The drivers do have to do quite a bit of work in the gym to be at a certain level of fitness, espcially when it comes to their neck muscles. Would a female driver be significantly disadvantaged in this regard?

KZ1 karts are more demanding than an F1 car in all areas bar maybe the neck (though u still need a massively strong neck), and she copes with them just fine. This physicallity thing is a red-herring.

If F1 was SO hard physically the drivers wouldn't be eating cokes and icecreams after races OR training for completely different sports during the season (i.e Triathlon).

Edited by rhukkas, 07 April 2013 - 10:39.

[Requiem84]

KZ1 karts are more demanding than an F1 car in all areas bar maybe the neck (though u still need a massively strong neck), and she copes with them just fine. This physicallity thing is a red-herring.

If F1 was SO hard physically the drivers wouldn't be eating cokes and icecreams after races OR training for completely different sports during the season (i.e Triathlon).

F1 has specific physics demands, mostly the neck muscles. The modern F1 cars make it a bit easier with the higher neck supports on both sides, so drivers can let their head rest on the supports. Early 2000's, there were several drivers who really had issues with g-forces. Most notably Jos Verstappen who couldn't keep his head up, had to drop the pace and lost P5 in Brazil in 2000 (?).

Like I said, it's a bit easier nowadays, but you will still need a rather muscular neck. It is a fact that females are gynetically disadvantaged in building muscle. I'd like to see a good female driver get a serious shot in F1. It's about time!

[Ross Stonefeld]

But it's also a fact that F1 drivers aren't that muscular.

[Requiem84]

But it's also a fact that F1 drivers aren't that muscular.

Obviously, as more muscle equals more weight. The lower the bodyfat percentage and the amount of muscles, the better for the driver.

However, The neck musles of F1 drivers are still significantly bigger and stronger compared to the rest of their body and other athletes.




I'm not saying a female couldn't cope with the forces on her neck. I would just like to see it in practice .

[One]

Dutch female racing driver Beitske Visser was recently signed by the RB junior team. She joins the likes of Antonio Felix Da Costa, Tom Blomqvist and Carlos Sainz Jr.

http://www.redbull.c...001243333526410

Beitske is fairly succesful, winning some races in the Formel ADAC category, but she doesn't have the blistering pace of some other youngsters like Max Verstappen. Are female drivers/talents signed for their true talent, or only for their marketing value? What do you think?

Do female drivers really have a chance to be competetive in Formula 1 nowadays?

Here she crashed at Zandvoort due to failing brakes. She broke her back in this incident. The next race she still competed and won, with a broken back.

With the current Pirelli's and no refueling it is easier for a woman to get into F1 I'd say. The drivers are no longer flatout for the whole race, and because of the refueling, the cars are substantially slower for a large part of the race (hence lower G-forces). The only real physical strength test would be qualifying, where G-forces are highest.

Good luck to Beitske, let's keep an eye on her. She seems to be a modest and a little bit shy girl:

So she crushed and went to Dutch hospial and was told there is no problem, then she raced the next day and she won, and then as she had oain on her back she went to a German hospital where she was told she broke her back, she took some rest and again hospitalized and then immediately start racing again? Sounds like a tough cookie.

[rhukkas]

F1 has specific physics demands, mostly the neck muscles. The modern F1 cars make it a bit easier with the higher neck supports on both sides, so drivers can let their head rest on the supports. Early 2000's, there were several drivers who really had issues with g-forces. Most notably Jos Verstappen who couldn't keep his head up, had to drop the pace and lost P5 in Brazil in 2000 (?).

Like I said, it's a bit easier nowadays, but you will still need a rather muscular neck. It is a fact that females are gynetically disadvantaged in building muscle. I'd like to see a good female driver get a serious shot in F1. It's about time!

Apart from the neck this isn't anything about driving an F1 car that's extraordinary. With modern nutrition and training I really don't see how someone will struggle in F1 physically. Women generally have smaller lighter heads so potentially don't have to develop such strong neck muscles to cope with the G.

Again, I think the whole fitness thing is a red-herring. Sebastian Vettel is hardly He-Man.

[Ross Stonefeld]

And it's not like there aren't female athletes who are more muscular/in better shape than the current F1 drivers.

Hell women fly fighter jets.

[SealTheDiffuser]

I think she is good.

[saudoso]

I'm curious. If she turns out to be F1 material and a lot of guys start insanely supporting her out of a crush, will it be called sexism? Will it be necessary to contain it?

Edited by saudoso, 07 April 2013 - 11:45.

[undersquare]

I'm curious. If she turns out to be F1 material and a lot of guys start insanely supporting her out of a crush, will it be called sexism? Will it be necessary to contain it?

It'll be OK as long as she's not too good. If she threatens to win the wdc a lot of boys will be upset .

[ANF]

I'm not saying a female couldn't cope with the forces on her neck. I would just like to see it in practice .

Here you go.

[Zoetrope]

To some of the posters above, she is already working on her neck
Quite amusing exercise

[Prost1997T]

It'll be OK as long as she's not too good. If she threatens to win the wdc a lot of boys will be upset ;) .

If Desiree Wilson and Lella Lombardi managed it a generation ago then I don't see why other females couldn't be competitive in F1.

[Requiem84]

Here you go.

You do realise that G-forces in Nascar are quite a bit lower than F1? Champcar comes a bit closer, but is still pretty far away from F1 levels of G-force.

The 130R in Suzuka subjects the body to about 6G in a F1 car:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/9/10005.html

But it's a tough track for the engine experts as well: in the ultra-fast 130R turn you get lateral acceleration forces of up to 6g and it's essential the oil keeps flowing.

For Indycar, all I can find is that they reach 4G maximum. Quite a difference.

I'm inclined to say women can do it nowadays, but it still begs the question; why do F1 teams don't offer opportunities to female drivers? I hope Beitske will get a test drive at least. Would be very interesting to see her compare to other F1 drivers with the rookie test at the end of the year!

[Prost1997T]

but it still begs the question; why do F1 teams don't offer opportunities to female drivers?

There simply aren't that many to start with, which reduces the pool of F1-capable ones. Females have competed in F1 since 1953 (and IIRC there was another before that in non-championship races), it isn't news.

Edited by Prost1997T, 07 April 2013 - 14:12.

[tjkoyen]

She's an outstanding driver. I've had the pleasure of watching her in karts a few times in-person and she's very good. She's aggressive and talented behind the wheel. Hope she goes far.

And I do the same neck exercises for karting

[Race2win]

If she does get into F1 and does manage to win the WDC, all the girls on here and everywhere will have their bragging rights after all.
I can bet there will be atleast one, if not many comments that will go "Your fav driver got beaten by a GIRL!!!"
I cant think of any comeback line to beat that. I'll happily accept defeat.

[Clatter]

You do realise that G-forces in Nascar are quite a bit lower than F1? Champcar comes a bit closer, but is still pretty far away from F1 levels of G-force.

The 130R in Suzuka subjects the body to about 6G in a F1 car:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/9/10005.html


For Indycar, all I can find is that they reach 4G maximum. Quite a difference.

I'm inclined to say women can do it nowadays, but it still begs the question; why do F1 teams don't offer opportunities to female drivers? I hope Beitske will get a test drive at least. Would be very interesting to see her compare to other F1 drivers with the rookie test at the end of the year!

How many truly competitive females are there at that level? If a female arrives on the scene who is really worth a shot the teams will be falling over themselves to sign her.

[Myrvold]

For Indycar, all I can find is that they reach 4G maximum. Quite a difference.

I'm inclined to say women can do it nowadays, but it still begs the question; why do F1 teams don't offer opportunities to female drivers? I hope Beitske will get a test drive at least. Would be very interesting to see her compare to other F1 drivers with the rookie test at the end of the year!

Though, 5.5G through Texas with CART is quite a lot.

[billm99uk]

I'm inclined to say women can do it nowadays, but it still begs the question; why do F1 teams don't offer opportunities to female drivers?

Until you get a lot more women coming in at the bottom end (i.e. junior karting) you can hardly expect a lot of women to appear at the top end. After all, if 99.99% ( or whatever it is) of male drivers fail to "make the grade" in F1 terms, it's pretty inevitable that no women would be in amongst them since you're starting from such a small number anyway. Thus the Susie Stoddarts and Maria de Villotas of this world are fairly mediocre (in F1 terms at least, they're probably much better drivers than you or I!) and basically PR fluff. You can't solve the problem with a bit of "affirmative action" at the top end, unless you just want to see a female driver pootling around at the back?

Edited by billm99uk, 07 April 2013 - 18:50.

[Afterburner]

With the current Pirelli's and no refueling it is easier for a woman to get into F1 I'd say. The drivers are no longer flatout for the whole race, and because of the refueling, the cars are substantially slower for a large part of the race (hence lower G-forces). The only real physical strength test would be qualifying, where G-forces are highest.

Lol, I don't think so. The Pirellis are not so slow in a race that it's substantially easier on the drivers, physically--the amount of extra G-forces when flat-out is so small it would barely have an additional effect. You really think two hours in the humidity around Singapore is discernably easier at 90% of your pace than it is at 100%? They're going to be exhausted either way, and I think any extra physical taxation due to marginally more intense G-forces would be negligible at best.

And it's not like there aren't female athletes who are more muscular/in better shape than the current F1 drivers.

Hell women fly fighter jets.

Exactly.

[Requiem84]

Lol, I don't think so. The Pirellis are not so slow in a race that it's substantially easier on the drivers, physically--the amount of extra G-forces when flat-out is so small it would barely have an additional effect. You really think two hours in the humidity around Singapore is discernably easier at 90% of your pace than it is at 100%? They're going to be exhausted either way, and I think any extra physical taxation due to marginally more intense G-forces would be negligible at best.


Exactly.

Lol, they are 9 seconds slower at the start of the race compared to the ultimate qualifying pace. This is not mainly due to Pirelli, but due to the no refueling. Remember, they start the race with 150 kg of fuel now, where pre 2010 they didn't even fuel tanks big enough for that amount! In a 2 stop race, they would usually have 50 kg of fuel on board during the stints, making them a lot faster during the race. Often they were doing 'qualifying' stints of 10-15 laps.

Now with the extra constraint of the Pirelli's, race laptimes are significantly slower and hence the G-force. Take a look at some of the other threads here.

Regarding Singapore, I'm afraid that is quite a bad example. Singapore is a track with few high downforce corners and G-forces are limited there. Yes, the humidity is a factor, but I never questioned the cardio-fitness of females.

Edited by Requiem84, 07 April 2013 - 17:16.

[pingu666]

its bumpy though, thatll suck energy out of you.

but modern f1 drivers are petite anyways, im fairly sure a woman could get similer level of fitness

[Afterburner]

Lol, they are 9 seconds slower at the start of the race compared to the ultimate qualifying pace. This is not mainly due to Pirelli, but due to the no refueling. Remember, they start the race with 150 kg of fuel now, where pre 2010 they didn't even fuel tanks big enough for that amount! In a 2 stop race, they would usually have 50 kg of fuel on board during the stints, making them a lot faster during the race. Often they were doing 'qualifying' stints of 10-15 laps.

Well, nine seconds is sort of like the laptime difference between LMPCs and LMP1s, isn't it? Do you see the physical demands between those two kinds of cars being so great that someone could bear a two-hour stint in LMPCs physically but not in LMP1s?

I just don't think that F1 cars are that much easier to drive than they were just a few years ago, speaking in terms of physical stamina. The loss in G-force doesn't strike me as being so significant that a physically weaker driver would have an easier time of it nowadays than they would with refuelling, especially so much so as to improve their performance. But I've never driven a race car at competitive speeds before, so I'm not one you want to take seriously on the subject.

[kismet]

I'm about 99% sure that someone who used to work as a fitness coach for one of the Finnish F1 drivers (I'm thinking Mika Salo) said a woman would have no problem with the physical demands of the job. Then again, I suggested the same thing on this board once and was promptly called an idiot so obviously it's a controversial view.

[MP422]

There simply aren't that many to start with, which reduces the pool of F1-capable ones. Females have competed in F1 since 1953 (and IIRC there was another before that in non-championship races), it isn't news.

Nonsense, there hasn't been a female since 1992 and 1980 before that... 21/33 years and those two females had 4 race starts between them.

Edited by MP422, 07 April 2013 - 19:39.

[Clatter]

I'm about 99% sure that someone who used to work as a fitness coach for one of the Finnish F1 drivers (I'm thinking Mika Salo) said a woman would have no problem with the physical demands of the job. Then again, I suggested the same thing on this board once and was promptly called an idiot so obviously it's a controversial view.

I don't believe there is any physical reason why a female could not be successful in f1 either, but some seem to need to maintain the illusion that F1 is so far above any other series that no mere female could possibly cope.

[Requiem84]

Well, nine seconds is sort of like the laptime difference between LMPCs and LMP1s, isn't it? Do you see the physical demands between those two kinds of cars being so great that someone could bear a two-hour stint in LMPCs physically but not in LMP1s?

I just don't think that F1 cars are that much easier to drive than they were just a few years ago, speaking in terms of physical stamina. The loss in G-force doesn't strike me as being so significant that a physically weaker driver would have an easier time of it nowadays than they would with refuelling, especially so much so as to improve their performance. But I've never driven a race car at competitive speeds before, so I'm not one you want to take seriously on the subject.

Maybe drivers are fitter these days, because they don't look exhausted that much on the podium now. 10 years ago they looked much more exhausted, and there even was a race where Trulli fainted on the podium.

I guess the main consencus from this thread is that F1 isn't too physically demanding for female drivers. So if Beitske, or another female future star, will be good enough, we might just get a mixed grid .

[Jimmy]

Ronda Rousey could kick any F1 driver's ass.

[Afterburner]

I guess the main consencus from this thread is that F1 isn't too physically demanding for female drivers. So if Beitske, or another female future star, will be good enough, we might just get a mixed grid .

I agree, and I hope she can make it.

[Welby]

you do realise there are a **** load of women flying high performance fighter's?

There is no physical reason we can't see a female F1 driver.

Absolute marketing bonanza awaits.

[Jimisgod]

With the current Pirelli's and no refueling it is easier for a woman to get into F1 I'd say. The drivers are no longer flatout for the whole race, and because of the refueling, the cars are substantially slower for a large part of the race (hence lower G-forces). The only real physical strength test would be qualifying, where G-forces are highest.

Good luck to Beitske, let's keep an eye on her. She seems to be a modest and a little bit shy girl:

The drivers aren't and have never been giant beef machines like football players, they are built more like tennis players and I imagine the Williams sisters could overpower many of the male tennis players.

Unless this is just another post contributing to the perpetual background whine about Pirelli bringing back the tyre strategy that existed for decades prior to 1994 and refueling.

[SUPRAF1]

Could driver weight be a bit of an issue? I remember reading somewhere that F1 drivers are basically undergoing a controlled eating disorder because every pound and kilogram is crucial. Women have a higher fat percentage. Having said that, I don't think it would be too much of a disadvantage. For example, Webber and Massa are at the two extremes of height/weight and both are reasonably successful drivers.


I really hope more women pursue motor-racing. I'll admit I was very jealous of how much coverage NASCAR was getting from Danica Patrick. It was pretty much front page news on all the major news networks here in North America. If only F1 could be in a similar position...

If I remember correctly, the FIA's Women in motorsport division is trying to overcome the problem of teen girls leaving motor racing. Apparently they've been fairly successful at increasing the number of female karters at early ages but for some reason the vast majority seem to quit during their mid-late teens. I'm not sure why that is. (societal/peer pressures?).

Anyways, I hope she does well. Good luck

Edited by SUPRAF1, 08 April 2013 - 07:27.

[August]

I doubt RB would've signed a marketing tool only. Probably she has potential but a male driver would need even more potential to get signed.

[Rob]

I'm a female F1 fan and would love to see a woman make it. I do have queries when it comes to physical differences though. The drivers do have to do quite a bit of work in the gym to be at a certain level of fitness, espcially when it comes to their neck muscles. Would a female driver be significantly disadvantaged in this regard?

Women fly fighter jets so an F1 car is no problem.

[Kalmake]

Could driver weight be a bit of an issue? I remember reading somewhere that F1 drivers are basically undergoing a controlled eating disorder because every pound and kilogram is crucial. Women have a higher fat percentage. Having said that, I don't think it would be too much of a disadvantage. For example, Webber and Massa are at the two extremes of height/weight and both are reasonably successful drivers.

On average women are smaller and that's and advantage. Danica Patrick is tiny (45kg) and she certainly benefited from it in IndyCar when they didn't weigh drivers.

[rhukkas]

If I remember correctly, the FIA's Women in motorsport division is trying to overcome the problem of teen girls leaving motor racing. Apparently they've been fairly successful at increasing the number of female karters at early ages but for some reason the vast majority seem to quit during their mid-late teens. I'm not sure why that is. (societal/peer pressures?).

Anyways, I hope she does well. Good luck

There are no girl karters at the highest levels of karting right now, and below that I can't say there's any more girls about than usual. If anything, it's less.

[zepunishment]

There simply aren't that many to start with, which reduces the pool of F1-capable ones. Females have competed in F1 since 1953 (and IIRC there was another before that in non-championship races), it isn't news.

+1. The reason there isn't a current female f1 driver isn't because they aren't good enough, just that not enough females decide to go into motorsport to start with.

[Nobody]

I doubt RB would've signed a marketing tool only. Probably she has potential but a male driver would need even more potential to get signed.

Disagree on both counts.

A look at the rise of 'energy' drinks (RB was pretty much the first), and the vast majority of the others who have based their media models on RBs suggests the complete opposite. The way the company has then diversified its business tells me they have some very smart cookies in their marketing dept.

In many single gender dominated professions, it's easy for the one in the minority to stand out, but much harder to prove him/herself.

BTW I'm not saying the two are connected, and have no idea how good Visser is.

Edited by Nobody, 08 April 2013 - 09:40.

[Lights]

I'm sure the day will come where we have a woman on the F1 grid again, I hope so in any case. But it should come naturally and not through the aid of Women in Motorsport commissions or marketing ideas. Just like most male drivers they will first have to be successful in feeder series, as in winning races in GP2/GP3/.., then we'll see.

[rhukkas]

I'm sure the day will come where we have a woman on the F1 grid again, I hope so in any case. But it should come naturally and not through the aid of Women in Motorsport commissions or marketing ideas. Just like most male drivers they will first have to be successful in feeder series, as in winning races in GP2/GP3/.., then we'll see.

Visser was good before the 'women in motorsport' thing tried to piggy back on her success.

[UPRC]

To some of the posters above, she is already working on her neck
Quite amusing exercise

Skill aside, we're all overlooking one of the most important facts. She's a Lotus fan. Good for her.

[undersquare]

I'm sure the day will come where we have a woman on the F1 grid again, I hope so in any case. But it should come naturally and not through the aid of Women in Motorsport commissions or marketing ideas. Just like most male drivers they will first have to be successful in feeder series, as in winning races in GP2/GP3/.., then we'll see.

For me it's OK if Women in Motorsport increases the pool of female drivers by offsetting sexism, but it has to stop there. Nothing would be worse for equality than a woman getting into F1 and not being really good enough (again).

I don't see any physical barriers, anyway. It's just that racing is a blokish testosterone-fuelled need to go in circles faster than everyone else, and women as a whole lack that senseless aggression lol. So a woman needs to be that bit more exceptional than the boys, but like you I'm sure it must only be a matter of time. I'd love it to be another Hamilton effect, where the woman who finally makes it is too good for comfort .

[SophieB]

+1. The reason there isn't a current female f1 driver isn't because they aren't good enough, just that not enough females decide to go into motorsport to start with.

I have long suspected that one of the reasons there aren't more women in motorsport is literally the 'haha you got beaten by a GIRL' fear among men. For the female competitors, it must be pretty demoralising to have any success framed not as a great achievement by her, but a sign of how badly the beaten male opponents have screwed up. Plus, in my experience though the 'beaten by a girl' thing is usually presented as light-hearted kidding around, guys really will nonetheless work extra hard to ensure they don't, in fact, get beaten by a girl.

This is obviously more of a problem at the most junior levels because the competition gets pretty cut-throat amongst everyone as people rise through the ranks but it strikes me a hell of a lot of potential great female drivers must get discouraged when they have a go as young girls. Bad enough standing out in the first place without the grid going 'oh HELL no' if it looks like they're going to be 'beaten by a girl.'