353 replies to this topic

[drunkenmaster]

Sport Bild reports that team orders are abolished once and for all at Red Bull.

They interviewed Marko and he says: "There will be no more team orders at Red Bull"

Apparently Mateschitz was very displeased with the decision to issue a team order. Marko: "Mr Mateschitz was pissed off".;)

http://sportbild.bil...uer-vettel.html

[drunkenmaster]

Best decision ever, no more politics, just racing. And which wouldn't have happened if Vettel had behaved like a good obedient boy...

[KiloWatt]

Hate to be a cynic (not really), but I'll believe it when I see it.

Edited by KiloWatt, 10 April 2013 - 11:50.

[Lelouch]

Hate to be a cynic (not really), but I'll believe it when I see it.

[speng]

I see this as RB caving, they cannot control Vettel.

[halifaxf1fan]

This is probably for the best with the dynamic that exists between these drivers. As the past three seasons have shown, Webber won't follow a team order and Vettel doesn't really need them.

Team orders are pretty much useless if the status quo continues in 2013.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 10 April 2013 - 11:58.

[Markn93]

Let's see when/if it's Webber hunting Vettel down.

Not that Webber would listen, of course (and rightly so).

[One]

Hate to be a cynic (not really), but I'll believe it when I see it.

The team will continue to tell Webber on what Fuel mix he should run, and charge less fuel into Webber's car, and place beter performing parts to Vettels car, So that Vettel can do anything he likes on track and Webber will be punished if he so wishes to race Vettel on.

[drunkenmaster]

Hate to be a cynic (not really), but I'll believe it when I see it.

If they should issue a team order in the future, the drivers can just ignore it with good conscience. Because it is now official team policy, approved by the upper head honcho, that there won't be any team orders.

[icecream]

i am in favour of this. let the kids race!

though also somewhat skeptical.

[undersquare]

Lol, so it was the fault of 'team orders', not Sebi

So, fine, it hands the advantage to the other teams now. Can't wait to see a Red Bull run out of tyres or fuel...

[MadYarpen]

[Ev0lutionz]

Yeah no more team orders and more DNFs from Vettel!

[JimiKart]

As someone who can't stand RB or Seb, I think this is great - it shows the team have no control over Seb which will surely hurt his reputation, and furthermore it opens up the possibility that RB will be destabilized by the two drivers taking each other out and generally causing chaos within the team....YES

[SealTheDiffuser]

Yeah no more team orders and more DNFs from Vettel!

yeah, WEB will see this as liscence to crash into VET.

[Sakae]

I see this as RB caving, they cannot control Vettel.

It could be more than that. This issue has not resonated well, and not just because of Vettel. Reading various interviews at Mercedes, it was clear that not too many people actually do like team orders. I am simply happy because it should take away any cryptic complains from Webber - Not bad for No. 2. (He has obviously No. 2 on his car, but occasionally he has not bother to clarify with public in which way he is falling short in his treatment by RB).

[bub]

The team will continue to tell Webber on what Fuel mix he should run, and charge less fuel into Webber's car, and place beter performing parts to Vettels car

This is what I suspect.

However if everything is fair, this is good news for everyone.

Edited by bub, 10 April 2013 - 12:14.

[Sakae]

The team will continue to tell Webber on what Fuel mix he should run, and charge less fuel into Webber's car, and place beter performing parts to Vettels car, So that Vettel can do anything he likes on track and Webber will be punished if he so wishes to race Vettel on.

Why would you write something like that?

[One]

Why would you write something like that?

In the formula One world, winner takes all rights. Not only that, The winner define what thew rest can. There is no reason as to why the Red Bull team suddenly opt to make the chance that Webber beat Vettel higher. On the contrary Vettel is the winner of three time WDC, so there is enough rational reason to bet on him as the team to achieve WDC and WCC. Meaning, in order for team to avoid collisions and possible on track disasters that might reduce the chance of Red Bull as team, it is wiser for the team to favor Vettel and Hinder Webber at precise level so that the race finish will be always first Vettel and the second Webber.

[redreni]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Anyone familiar with 90s Channel 4 (UK) comedy show Drop The Dead Donkey? Mateschitz = Sir Royston. Marko = Gus "I'm not here" Hedges. Horner = George Dent.

Horner is so far from being in charge of that team he doesn't even get his b0llockings direct from the owner, they have to be routed through the right hand man and a tabloid paper!

This is hilarious!

[David1976]

As someone who can't stand RB or Seb, I think this is great - it shows the team have no control over Seb which will surely hurt his reputation, and furthermore it opens up the possibility that RB will be destabilized by the two drivers taking each other out and generally causing chaos within the team....YES

I am inclined to agree with you. Inter team dynamics can be dramatically affected as it is not just the drivers that get involved, it's the drivers race team.
For Vettel's sake I hope that he is not dependent on Mark's set-up sharing or too much cooperation on site...

[Tenmantaylor]

If this is out in the open Webber is in theory allowed to race how he wants and ignore any subversions from the team. They can't turn his engine down for him so it's a free reign for him. Can only be a good thing for fans and for him but it probably won't change much on track.

[JacnGille]

Hate to be a cynic (not really), but I'll believe it when I see it.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[SophieB]

Horner is so far from being in charge of that team he doesn't even get his b0llockings direct from the owner, they have to be routed through the right hand man and a tabloid paper!

This is hilarious!

I agree about Horner's position looking increasingly untenable. How the hell does Helmut Marko get to be stating team policy like this? It is bizarre that someone with such a fuzzy remit (does he have ANY formal responsibilities within the team?) has such freedom and power.

[Sakae]

In the formula One world, winner takes all rights. Not only that, The winner define what thew rest can. There is no reason as to why the Red Bull team suddenly opt to make the chance that Webber beat Vettel higher. On the contrary Vettel is the winner of three time WDC, so there is enough rational reason to bet on him as the team to achieve WDC and WCC. Meaning, in order for team to avoid collisions and possible on track disasters that might reduce the chance of Red Bull as team, it is wiser for the team to favor Vettel and Hinder Webber at precise level so that the race finish will be always first Vettel and the second Webber.

I don't want to be rude, but do you have even slight understanding how Webber operates? Him and listening a team? I guess there would be first time for everything, but on face of it, drivers are free to race, and until we hear otherwise, there is nothing for us but to speculate, and every time Webber is behind, conspirators can claim that they "knew it"!

[Slartibartfast]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Anyone familiar with 90s Channel 4 (UK) comedy show Drop The Dead Donkey? Mateschitz = Sir Royston. Marko = Gus "I'm not here" Hedges. Horner = George Dent.

Horner is so far from being in charge of that team he doesn't even get his b0llockings direct from the owner, they have to be routed through the right hand man and a tabloid paper!

This is hilarious!

I guess that makes Webber = Henry and Vettel = Damien.

[learningtobelost]

"There will be no more overt team orders at Red Bull"

Edited by learningtobelost, 10 April 2013 - 13:00.

[Alx09]

Let's see when/if it's Webber hunting Vettel down.

He probably won't be the one hunting Vettel down (without KERS).

[Tony Mandara]

I think you'll all find it's the "Multi21" "Multi12" nonsense that won't happen anymore.

If a car is low on fuel or high on tyre wear of course they will issue an order.


"Mark, your right front is showing excessive wear. Don't worry, we'll change it after it explodes!"

Edited by Tony Mandara, 10 April 2013 - 13:05.

[kenkip]

Webber crash into Vettel?Never ever,that would destroy the sympathy he has built from everyone.The only way Mark can get back at Seb where it hurts is to beat him on track over the season,plain and simple.No long stories.
I doubt that will happen though,Seb loves it when he is critizised because he hits back realy hard on the track e.g remember after being called a crash kid spa 2010?He raised his game in a big way and could have won all the races.I think we will see a deadly reaction from him in China.

[drunkenmaster]

I agree about Horner's position looking increasingly untenable. How the hell does Helmut Marko get to be stating team policy like this? It is bizarre that someone with such a fuzzy remit (does he have ANY formal responsibilities within the team?) has such freedom and power.

Marko is motorsport boss at Red Bull. His job is comparable to that of Toto Wolff (or formerly Norbert Haug) at Mercedes.

So I think he has the right to make such a statement. Just the more as it is a direct request from the team owner Mateschitz...

[redreni]

I guess that makes Webber = Henry and Vettel = Damien.

[One]

I don't want to be rude, but do you have even slight understanding how Webber operates? Him and listening a team? I guess there would be first time for everything, but on face of it, drivers are free to race, and until we hear otherwise, there is nothing for us but to speculate, and every time Webber is behind, conspirators can claim that they "knew it"!

So you in principle reserve your possibility to make mutations to avoid collisions?
If nothing will be done, these two cars will most certainly be banged on at every outing at any possible occasions.

[Kerch]

Purely a political decision. Their brand and star driver do not have the popularity to match their immense success (rightly or wrongly), so they're trying to improve their reputation.

[fabr68]

Translation... Team orders will be issued on a more discrete and concealed way.

[seahawk]

Or in other words: "There will be no more team orders against Goldenbody - Mark will just be underfueled and his pit stops will take as long as needed."

[drunkenmaster]

Or in other words: "There will be no more team orders against Goldenbody - Mark will just be underfueled and his pit stops will take as long as needed."

ROFL, how ironic that Red Bull just made the fastest pit stop of all times FOR WEBBER in Malaysia:
http://www.f1fanatic...rd-205-seconds/

And how ironic that Webber was the beneficiary of the team order in Malaysia.

And yet people continue to claim that Webber would be somehow disadvantaged by this team, when there is ZERO EVIDENCE to support this claim. (and now please don't bring up that stupid "wing gate" again, he didn't want that thing in the first place)

[Group B]

The team will continue to tell Webber on what Fuel mix he should run, and charge less fuel into Webber's car, and place beter performing parts to Vettels car, So that Vettel can do anything he likes on track and Webber will be punished if he so wishes to race Vettel on.

[Group B]

Or in other words: "There will be no more team orders against Goldenbody - Mark will just be underfueled and his pit stops will take as long as needed."

Exactly, just like at the last race. Oh, hang on ...

[goingthedistance]

"There will be no more overt team orders at Red Bull"

Exactly. There will be no more public comments suggesting the team has implemented team orders. So we'll just see Seb or MW seething post-race and not be sure why.

This appears, if anything, as an endorsement by the team of Vettel's actions. Not sure how I feel about that.

[Sakae]

So you in principle reserve your possibility to make mutations to avoid collisions?
If nothing will be done, these two cars will most certainly be banged on at every outing at any possible occasions.

I cannot predict future, but I continue to maintain that incident in Turkey 2010 had it's roots in misplaced expectations due to couple of factors (I do not want to go back to that today). Letting them race should now avoid any guessing by drivers.

I think Sebastian has every right to be concerned with Webber's dark side, which we caught glimpse off in last race after they crossed a finish line, but I am still hoping that sanity will prevail at the end, and they will avoid each other. I also hope if we see repetition of similar start as we saw in Brasil 2012, that Webber will be sent off on gardening leave right after debriefing and on the same day. No more fooling around under any pretences. Beat Vettel fairly and squarely, or get out of his way and don't bother anyone.

[stonebutter]

Sorry guys Vettel doesn't obey team orders so we're gonna go ahead and scrap them. K thanks. Never saw more of an admission that a driver is in control of a team and not the other way around. A toxic environment through and through.

[JRizzle86]

Marko, I thought the very reason you were employed at Red Bull was to give team orders.

[Sakae]

Sorry guys Vettel doesn't obey team orders so we're gonna go ahead and scrap them. K thanks. Never saw more of an admission that a driver is in control of a team and not the other way around. A toxic environment through and through.

Err, would you prefer then issuance of permanent standing order - Code 12?

[Astro]

Sport Bild reports that team orders are abolished once and for all at Red Bull.

They interviewed Marko and he says: "There will be no more team orders at Red Bull"

Apparently Mateschitz was very displeased with the decision to issue a team order. Marko: "Mr Mateschitz was pissed off".;)

http://sportbild.bil...uer-vettel.html

What a no brainer. I guess is Marko's way of saying that since Vettel didn't get any punishment from the team, it is going to be difficult to explain to Mark why he needs to obey orders in what is quite surely his last season at RBR. So the obvious thing to do is to make what is about to happen between those two drivers an official policy. I guess it is to save face and get PR points, but the bottom line is no orders!! Thanks Seb!!

[drunkenmaster]

since Vettel didn't get any punishment from the team, it is going to be difficult to explain to Mark why he needs to obey orders

What punishment did Webber get for repeatedly not obeying team orders himself?

[apoka]

Less team orders could mean better racing, although Vettel is often ahead anyway if nothing special happens, so I don't expect huge changes.

I somehow doubt that they won't employ team orders at the end of the season.

[rhukkas]

This is just nonsense. Of course there will be team orders in the future. This is just to take some of the heat of RedBull because they have zero control over their own drivers.

"no more team orders..... because the little shits won't listen anyway"

farcical management. My word how Newey's genius is the glue that sticks this team together. Without him they would be nowhere.

[SpaMaster]

Sport Bild reports that team orders are abolished once and for all at Red Bull.

They interviewed Marko and he says: "There will be no more team orders at Red Bull"

Apparently Mateschitz was very displeased with the decision to issue a team order. Marko: "Mr Mateschitz was pissed off".;)

http://sportbild.bil...uer-vettel.html

Best news for Vettel going into this weekend!

As someone who can't stand RB or Seb, I think this is great - it shows the team have no control over Seb which will surely hurt his reputation, and furthermore it opens up the possibility that RB will be destabilized by the two drivers taking each other out and generally causing chaos within the team....YES

On another news, Red Bull and Vettel have won the past three championships... YES

Edited by SpaMaster, 10 April 2013 - 14:39.

[Astro]

What punishment did Webber get for repeatedly not obeying team orders himself?

I am only stating the obvious here. If one driver doesn't follow the orders and get no punishment from the team, why would the other driver abide by these same rules when he is not going to continue in the team? He won't. If you want, try asking him that same question: "You did the same Webber, so now is 1-1 in my book. That means you have to keep following orders, OK?" ...Good luck with that.