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Marko: "There will be no more team orders at Red Bull"


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#51 joshb

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 14:51

Hopefully Seb will be far enough up the road, team orders won't be needed
How many times were they close together on track last year? Not every race.

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#52 Sakae

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 14:56

This is just nonsense. Of course there will be team orders in the future. This is just to take some of the heat of RedBull because they have zero control over their own drivers.

"no more team orders..... because the little shits won't listen anyway"

farcical management. My word how Newey's genius is the glue that sticks this team together. Without him they would be nowhere.

That bigger sh*** hasn't listen management yet during a race, so perhaps that's makes it even.

#53 kosmos

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:07

Marko missed a little logic there, like there will be team orders if we need them to win the WDC (in case Webber or Vettel are out of the fight at some point).



#54 HaydenFan

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:16

Maybe a sign that Vettel could be on his way out at Red Bull? You go public and say you have one loyal driver (Webber) and another who is just a kid who could be thinking he is bigger than what he is (Vettel), and you as a team are not happy with either.

That is how I view this. Red Bull has two 2 quick drivers who are of such differing personalities that they don't know what to do with either.

#55 SophieB

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:46

Marko is motorsport boss at Red Bull. His job is comparable to that of Toto Wolff (or formerly Norbert Haug) at Mercedes.

So I think he has the right to make such a statement. Just the more as it is a direct request from the team owner Mateschitz...


I am not at all sure that's correct. He certainly isn't listed as such on the team's management page on the RBR website
(http://www.redbull.c...001242807164021)
In fact, he's not listed as part of the management there at all. The F1 press generally refer to him, rather vaguely, as an advisor or consultant.

Edited by SophieB, 10 April 2013 - 15:47.


#56 charly0418

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:52

Translation:

"we won't give more team orders but will control the drivers with our Kers on/off button ;) "

#57 gillesthegenius

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:02

Best news for Vettel going into this weekend!

On another news, Red Bull and Vettel have won the past three championships... YES


More like yabbadabbadooo!!! :cool:


#58 One

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:04

I cannot predict future, but I continue to maintain that incident in Turkey 2010 had it's roots in misplaced expectations due to couple of factors (I do not want to go back to that today). Letting them race should now avoid any guessing by drivers.

I think Sebastian has every right to be concerned with Webber's dark side, which we caught glimpse off in last race after they crossed a finish line, but I am still hoping that sanity will prevail at the end, and they will avoid each other. I also hope if we see repetition of similar start as we saw in Brasil 2012, that Webber will be sent off on gardening leave right after debriefing and on the same day. No more fooling around under any pretences. Beat Vettel fairly and squarely, or get out of his way and don't bother anyone.


:smoking:

They will be more precise in his racing operation and avoid any collisions that my hinder his result. This said they will both hard. There is no doubt about it.
But the question remains if the team operator remain decent to us.

#59 Briz

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:07

Pretty cool, team orders at Redbull have never really worked well anyway and nothing good was going to happen after Malaysia if they tried such orders again. I like how Red Bull is working, kind of a self regulating mechanism with lots of factors involved but also a lot of freedom. Now it will be up to Vettel and Webber to realise sometimes they have to help each other (or not).

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#60 fabr68

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:13

Why is Webber so upset when he is treated as a no. 2?

Maybe because the team has not been clear on his role as a driver.

They need him to take points of Vettel's rivals but at the same time they need him to gift his wins to Vettel when he is behind.

Marko is just putting another carrot in front of the horse. Last thing he and Vettel need is to have Mark aware he is not allowed to win and let Vettel competitors score more points.

I congratulate them for this move because it is going to hurt their results and I am rooting against them.

#61 Sakae

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:14

Now when noises about Kimi becoming louder than ever, I am very much in doubt that Webber will be concerned about WCC or WDC for Vettel. This will be live or die year at RB.

#62 One

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:15

Now when noises about Kimi becoming louder than ever, I am very much in doubt that Webber will be concerned about WCC or WDC for Vettel. This will be live or die year at RB.


I actually see it differently...

#63 speng

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:19

Sorry guys Vettel doesn't obey team orders so we're gonna go ahead and scrap them. K thanks. Never saw more of an admission that a driver is in control of a team and not the other way around. A toxic environment through and through.

So true

#64 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:21

Sport Bild reports that team orders are abolished once and for all at Red Bull.

They interviewed Marko and he says: "There will be no more team orders at Red Bull"

Apparently Mateschitz was very displeased with the decision to issue a team order. Marko: "Mr Mateschitz was pissed off".;)

http://sportbild.bil...uer-vettel.html


Its a bold move but totally in line with what Red Bull has done over the past few seasons. Typically Mateschitz too. Webber is gonna regret moving away from this team at the end of this year.

#65 Boxerevo

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:22

Nothing that bad starts and kers problems can't resolve.

:smoking:

Edited by Boxerevo, 10 April 2013 - 16:23.


#66 Group B

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:40

Now when noises about Kimi becoming louder than ever, I am very much in doubt that Webber will be concerned about WCC or WDC for Vettel. This will be live or die year at RB.

Webber still has to be careful; if he adopts a 'couldn't care less' approach and takes Vettel out a couple of times when he's beating him then I imagine he'll find himself sitting out races. Hopefully they'll both control themselves just enough to race properly and fairly.

#67 mkoscevic

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:42

:up:

#68 sosidge

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:42

No team orders (if true) is to Vettel's advantage. Instead of waiting for Mark to let him by, he will just pass him again. Despite his whining, Mark needs team orders much more than Seb does.

#69 maverick69

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:44


Posted Image

#70 Group B

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:44

Nothing that bad starts and kers problems can't resolve.

:smoking:

Are you suggesting they'll sabotage Webber? If so then do enlighten us as to why they didn't do so three weeks ago, with a lengthy pitstop or compromised strategy? They totally allowed and enabled Webber to be in front of SV, then ordered Vettel to stay behind, which like it or not is pretty big torpedo to HMS Conspiracy.

#71 Sakae

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:44

Nothing that bad starts and kers problems can't resolve.

:smoking:

You know that last problem with KERS was related to a McLaren's item, right?

#72 Group B

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 16:46

No team orders (if true) is to Vettel's advantage. Instead of waiting for Mark to let him by, he will just pass him again. Despite his whining, Mark needs team orders much more than Seb does.

Quite. The idea that this proves RB hate Mark as peddled by one or two people is frankly a bit mystifying.

#73 polaris

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:08

ROFL, how ironic that Red Bull just made the fastest pit stop of all times FOR WEBBER in Malaysia:
http://www.f1fanatic...rd-205-seconds/

And how ironic that Webber was the beneficiary of the team order in Malaysia.

And yet people continue to claim that Webber would be somehow disadvantaged by this team, when there is ZERO EVIDENCE to support this claim. (and now please don't bring up that stupid "wing gate" again, he didn't want that thing in the first place)


I think its ironic you didn't get the original message: maestshitz didn't like the fact vettel was told to hold back so now we wont have that anymore.

#74 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:16

Posted Image


Its off topic, but I suggest you read this article

http://www.theatlant...ictions/274241/

And see he wasnt so crazy after all.



#75 polaris

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:18

Webber still has to be careful; if he adopts a 'couldn't care less' approach and takes Vettel out a couple of times when he's beating him then I imagine he'll find himself sitting out races. Hopefully they'll both control themselves just enough to race properly and fairly.

I think Mark realizes there is nothing left at redbull after malasyia. If I were him I would race for my own benefit and when RB realize it they will just turn his car down or sack him. At least he will have dignity before he retires

#76 SpaMaster

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:19

Why is Webber so upset when he is treated as a no. 2?

Maybe because the team has not been clear on his role as a driver.

They need him to take points of Vettel's rivals but at the same time they need him to gift his wins to Vettel when he is behind.

Marko is just putting another carrot in front of the horse. Last thing he and Vettel need is to have Mark aware he is not allowed to win and let Vettel competitors score more points.

I congratulate them for this move because it is going to hurt their results and I am rooting against them.

You guys have kept on saying this ever since Turkey 2010. It is specifically after that Vettel/Red Bull domination started. This is plain desperation!

#77 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:19

Quite. The idea that this proves RB hate Mark as peddled by one or two people is frankly a bit mystifying.


The #Vettelhate is strong in some ;)

#78 RealRacing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:26

This isn't going to work. When (if they are not already) the other contenders start to apply TOs, RBR will be at a disadvantage. The practical result of the TO ban lift is the favouring of one driver very early in the championship, if not the beginning.

#79 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:30

You know that last problem with KERS was related to a McLaren's item, right?


It just came to my mind that McLaren would be a perfect new home for Webber.

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 10 April 2013 - 17:31.


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#80 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:31

This isn't going to work. When (if they are not already) the other contenders start to apply TOs, RBR will be at a disadvantage. The practical result of the TO ban lift is the favouring of one driver very early in the championship, if not the beginning.


Theyve done it before, and gave Webber more freedom than any other team did on their supposed number 2 driver, even when it was very clear Vettel was gonna be the only wdc contender.

And they probably have the car to do it too, provide excellent racing and a tight fought championship till the last race, where Vettel will hopefully seal his 4th straigt wdc, the youngest ever, and then well get months of bickering how easy Vettel has it in a newey car and that the racing/tyres/F1 sucks. :cat:

#81 Bloggsworth

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:35

Yes - We believe you Marko...

#82 H2H

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:35

The #Vettelhate is strong in some ;)


Indeed :lol:

All hail the three time WDC and the three time WCC, and the current leaders, not bad for such incompetent guys :clap:

In any case even if Mr. Didis reaction sounds propable it hasn't to be true, even if Sportbild seems to quote Marko directly. The prove will be in the pudding.


Edited by Mandzipop, 10 April 2013 - 18:36.
P.S: Certain trollastic comments are almost too amusing to even respond to. Baiting


#83 bauss

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:43

The team will continue to tell Webber on what Fuel mix he should run, and charge less fuel into Webber's car, and place beter performing parts to Vettels car, So that Vettel can do anything he likes on track and Webber will be punished if he so wishes to race Vettel on.


this is what i suspect....

it generally just means they will start hiding team orders and start doing underhanded stuff.... no way this would mean they let both drivers go hell for leather all through the GP.

Should be fun to watch though.

Clear evidence they cant rein in SV

#84 BullHead

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:45

I don't know how real this statement is, or how public it is going to be broadcast, but this could be good news for Webber. With all the fuss made over Malaysia, Mark would have been very conscious of not being able to do the same in the future without receiving a public flogging from the team. Now, even if they do give orders for him when he's behind Vettel, he can ignore them knowing the team cannot publicly say anything.
Vettel will just be happy about it anyway
The losers of such a statement are the team. Maybe they are banking on Vettel being able to pull the moves and Mark not, as has historically been the case on the whole. It's just the possible clashing they have to be wary of. Of course they can publicly flog one or both of them if that happens. Maybe the strategists have to double efforts not to have the two cars together on the track. (in a race strategy sense). But that's daft, they want 1 2 finishes afterall.
Dunno, I'd be surprised to hear this officially or widely announced.
That said, other frontrunning / contending teams have prided on such policies in the past, whether real or not.

#85 jjcale

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:55

When did "C'mon Seb, this is silly" qualify as a team order, anyway ....

#86 drunkenmaster

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:57

I don't know how real this statement is, or how public it is going to be broadcast
..
Dunno, I'd be surprised to hear this officially or widely announced.

The full interview with Marko will be published in the printed version of Sport Bild.

#87 Tuxy

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 18:20

Riiiiiiight...

Nice to see the hypocrisy finally exposed. As a long time Ferrari supporter, I take accept team orders isn't perfect but necessary. However I shake my head at this proclamation to not employ team orders. Can people just move on with it? Vettel is clearly #1 at Redbull (the guy that has won three straight championships), just like Alonso is clearly #1 at Ferrari.

#88 goingthedistance

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 18:36

The thing people tend to ignore is that the team can control things to a large extent with pit-stop timing and tyre choice. For example, Webber gradually built up a lead from Vettel that in the end was 4.2 seconds before the last stop. But Vettel was given the undercut in the last stop, and that difference was annihilated.

So whatever they are going to need to have rules about who gets pit-stop priority. The usual rule is track position. Is this a team order?

#89 fabr68

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 18:53

If I was Webber and start to get short-fueled, I would drive it like I stole it and see the results of this team strategy in the WCC score board and Vettel's competitors points.

They are really going to bolt it to themselves if they under fuel Webber.

#90 Mandzipop

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 18:56

I've just had to delete a large number of posts as this thread is starting to get a bit too personal. if you don't like a post and you think it breaks the forum rules, report it do not retort as there is a chance your response may also be pulled.

#91 Red17

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 19:00

Translation:

Webber's crate of Gremlins has arrived.

Not saying team order is a bad or good thing, but such statement would fail even in April Fools.

#92 Slackbladder

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 19:00

This is just a bit of PR BS really. A team can just give technical instructions to any driver in front to 'slow' them if they want. Be it turning down the engine or go 'fuel save' mode.

It will just mean they won't be a 'mark/seb is faster than you' message.

It's just red bull on a face saving exercise.

#93 bonjon1979a

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 19:38

What it means is that whenever mark is following vettel he needs to 'look after his tyres' or 'manage his fuel'. Drivers have no idea how their fuel is going, RB will work this for vettel no doubt.

#94 sprice

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 20:01

What it means is that whenever mark is following vettel he needs to 'look after his tyres' or 'manage his fuel'. Drivers have no idea how their fuel is going, RB will work this for vettel no doubt.


Well Mark won't be able to use up too much fuel and overdo the tyres in the first 2/3 of the race and then expect the team to protect him from his team mate whose race strategy meant he would have better tyres and enough fuel to race to the end.....

An interesting comment from Marko, we'll see how it plays out. After Malaysia team orders, comments about Vettel always getting favouritism seem ridiculously biased really.


#95 joshb

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 20:08

The thing people tend to ignore is that the team can control things to a large extent with pit-stop timing and tyre choice. For example, Webber gradually built up a lead from Vettel that in the end was 4.2 seconds before the last stop. But Vettel was given the undercut in the last stop, and that difference was annihilated.

So whatever they are going to need to have rules about who gets pit-stop priority. The usual rule is track position. Is this a team order?


But Hamilton was quite close to Vettel and with Webber comfortable, they thought it was sensible to pit Seb first.
Also, Seb was 4.2 behind the lap before he pitted but had over a second out of Webber and then went much faster on his outlap, and had a slightly fastter pit lane time
It all added up and that's why they were neck and neck out the pits

I think it can be seen as weak from RBR that they can't trust their drivers to obey orders as well as the drivers' personal wants

#96 bonjon1979a

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 20:34

Well Mark won't be able to use up too much fuel and overdo the tyres in the first 2/3 of the race and then expect the team to protect him from his team mate whose race strategy meant he would have better tyres and enough fuel to race to the end.....

An interesting comment from Marko, we'll see how it plays out. After Malaysia team orders, comments about Vettel always getting favouritism seem ridiculously biased really.


I'm not sure that's what happened. Webber had fresher tyres. His gripe is that he was told that they would finish 2-1 so eased off pace. There was no talk of fuel saving, they were concerned about tyres for both drivers so called off the fight. Vettel didn't heed the call as he himself admitted. It's clear as day and no bias at all. In fact, Vettel himself apologised knowing that he had done wrong. There is no real debate about what happened in Malaysia.

#97 reggie

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 21:53

I see this as RB caving, they cannot control Vettel.


:up:

#98 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:55

I see this as RB caving, they cannot control Vettel.


So do I.

It also conveniently allows them to get out of returning the stolen win to Webber in the future.


As the past three seasons have shown, Webber won't follow a team order and Vettel doesn't really need them.


Canada 2010 says he does.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 11 April 2013 - 06:56.


#99 Race2win

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:19

Reading the comments on here few things have become pretty clear...

1. Webber caused the crash with Vettel at Turkey, disobeyed TO at Silverstone, openly acknowledged not wanting to follow team orders, tried defending but lost Vettel in Malaysia, still cribs about the team in the media.... He doing the right thing.

2. Vettel was the victim of the crash at Turkey, disobeyed TO at Malaysia and won, apologised for not following TO but also says he not sorry for winning.... Hes the baddest bad guy ever to have walked the paddock.

Sensible conclusion by the posters here.

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#100 Sakae

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:20

Most people hear what they want to hear, so it seems in here. I think what RB is saying to Mr. Webber, we have confirmed to the whole world, that you can show how good you are, and you can race Vettel. DM have told you (probably more than once) there is no No. 1 and 2 in his team, Marko has confirmed the same, what else do you expect? Now go and play! China is here. (I wonder now if his shaved head will be unfair advantage over Vettel).

Edited by Sakae, 11 April 2013 - 07:23.