Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Marko: "There will be no more team orders at Red Bull"


  • Please log in to reply
353 replies to this topic

#101 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:21

Reading the comments on here few things have become pretty clear...

1. Webber caused the crash with Vettel at Turkey, disobeyed TO at Silverstone, openly acknowledged not wanting to follow team orders, tried defending but lost Vettel in Malaysia, still cribs about the team in the media.... He doing the right thing.

2. Vettel was the victim of the crash at Turkey, disobeyed TO at Malaysia and won, apologised for not following TO but also says he not sorry for winning.... Hes the baddest bad guy ever to have walked the paddock.

Sensible conclusion by the posters here.

...you forgot Brazil in your lament

Advertisement

#102 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:22

:up:


Eventually this team will self-disintegrate, as this situation is not workable even for the team managers and directors.
After this statement there is no trust what so ever even between the team leaders.
This said, there is a clear oral agreements made to abolish team orders, which may appear in divers ways to us as we demonstrated here, as well as to the team personnel.


#103 Race2win

Race2win
  • New Member

  • 26 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:28

...you forgot Brazil in your lament

Oh yes Brazil too..

#104 NotSoSilentBob

NotSoSilentBob
  • Member

  • 929 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:44

1. Webber caused the crash with Vettel at Turkey,


yeah, keep repeating that one, eventually everyone will forget what actually happened and more than just Seb's fan club on here might believe it.

For the rest of us, it was the other way and the video evidence proves it.

#105 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,655 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:47

1. Webber caused the crash with Vettel at Turkey


Not in this universe.

#106 v@sh

v@sh
  • Member

  • 717 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:50

Reading the comments on here few things have become pretty clear...

1. Webber caused the crash with Vettel at Turkey, disobeyed TO at Silverstone, openly acknowledged not wanting to follow team orders, tried defending but lost Vettel in Malaysia, still cribs about the team in the media.... He doing the right thing.

2. Vettel was the victim of the crash at Turkey, disobeyed TO at Malaysia and won, apologised for not following TO but also says he not sorry for winning.... Hes the baddest bad guy ever to have walked the paddock.

Sensible conclusion by the posters here.


1. You've got to be joking right? Vettel and 99% of the paddock said that was Vettel's fault all except the RB management. Webber left Vettel enough room and Vettel moved right into the path of Webber and guess what? It was the same situation as Malaysia where Vettel had more revs than Webber. Regarding Silverstone, disobeyed team orders and yet still maintained the order, Webber made a point when team orders were at that point not in force. Webber was naughty in Brazil and made it hard for Vettel but eventually let him through but who brings up that point? no one because everyone loves his transgressions more.

2. Victim of the crash that he caused. Disobeyed a TO for the win rather than a podium place. Did it in such a manner which wasn't even fair given the understanding BEFORE and DURING the race and something they've done for a while.

Man people like to twist things in this thread to suit their arguments. Do you blame Webber for cribbing in the media when the team screw him up to help Seb?? What would you do? considering Seb has been their #1 since he joined.

#107 piszkosfred

piszkosfred
  • Member

  • 148 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:20

After this announcement I guess Webber's KERS will fail even more times than usual, especially before quali.

#108 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:35

I am not sure what's wrong with Webber. He has team pamper him, billionaire canjole him, makes time in his busy schedule for him, team wanted to give him Maly race, yet this guy sulks, and declares now that his trust and link to team is broken after Maly. Maybe anything short of naming him No. 1 in the team will not satisfy him, and parity is not enough, because there are shadows of conspiracy against him on every corner.

Edited by Buttoneer, 11 April 2013 - 12:50.
removed xenophobic comment about australians


#109 NotSoSilentBob

NotSoSilentBob
  • Member

  • 929 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:48

There's no 'shadow of conspiracy', having that tool Marko lapdoging for Vettel ensures there's conspiracy!

Who does Marko want to win, his one golden find (out of 40-odd rejects), or Mark Webber who owes Marko no allegiance?

#110 KateLM

KateLM
  • Member

  • 2,341 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:52

To be honest, all this says is that they can't control their drivers so they've given up trying. Might be easier in the short term but it's storing up more problems for the future. Whether you like what Brawn did at Malaysia or not, he'd never find himself in that position. Horner might spare himself a couple of future embarrassments but he's never looked less in control.

I am not sure what's wrong with Webber. He has team pamper him, billionaire canjole him, makes time in his busy schedule for him, team wanted to give him Maly race, yet this guy sulks, and declares now that his trust and link to team is broken after Maly. Maybe anything short of naming him No. 1 in the team will not satisfy him, and parity is not enough, because there are shadows of conspiracy against him on every corner.

No, he hasn't.

http://www1.skysport...mit-beyond-2013

#111 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:18

I am not sure what's wrong with Webber. He has team pamper him, billionaire canjole him, makes time in his busy schedule for him, team wanted to give him Maly race, yet this guy sulks, and declares now that his trust and link to team is broken after Maly. Maybe anything short of naming him No. 1 in the team will not satisfy him, and parity is not enough, because there are shadows of conspiracy against him on every corner.


Some people here have no clue as to how one could a share his or her concern with the others, isn't it? Red Bull as is is the top team on the grid, and now it seems that the team is just run two cars head to head with no way to manage an eventual 'crisis' at each races. Team order is often referred as negative aspects, but in history teams secured many great race results by giving out team order. I recall Eddie Jordan stealing 1-2 at Spa after Michael DNF, and so on.
Therefore there is no win in blaming one of the two drivers. The line has to be drawn how team conduct, in most cases by implementing the team order. I am very interested in the strategy of Red Bull in coming races. I truly hope that Red Bull racing cars blindly racing each other will not develop a fatal accident on track in racing, for example at rainy SPA.

Edited by Buttoneer, 11 April 2013 - 12:51.


#112 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:31

Following Vettel's decision to ignore team orders and overtake Webber to win the race at Sepang, occasions when Webber has done similar have been cited in Vettel's defence. Having said "I respect Mark as a driver but there were more than one occasions in the past where he could have helped the team but he didn't", Vettel was asked if he was "paying him back" for not getting his team-mate's help in Brazil last year, to which he replied: "Probably you could say indirectly so


That's what we thought, Seb...


#113 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:51

Ahhhhhh. Now I see. That's becuase they would be futile eh Helmut?

"Had I understood the message and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second... I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106631

Guess who's driving for Ferrari next year as predicted :smoking:

#114 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:05

I love the posters here who are saying with remarkable assurance that RB will now short fuel Webber, bugger his pit stops, ruin his strategy, etc; basically do whatever is neccessary to ensure he always finishes behind Vettel; yet the hard, real, factual evidence is exactly the opposite - at the very last race RB gave Webber good stops, a good, car, the best strategy and even ordered Vettel to stay behind him. It really is a case of I hate driver X or team X so I'm going to make stuff up in my head and peddle it as fact.



#115 Callahan

Callahan
  • Member

  • 594 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:06

Ahhhhhh. Now I see. That's becuase they would be futile eh Helmut?

"Had I understood the message and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second... I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106631

Guess who's driving for Ferrari next year as predicted :smoking:

Well the shit is really going to hit the fan now. 2 races in and Seb has basically said what everyone already knew, he does what he likes and knows he is untouchable. Get ready for apocalypse now for the rest of the season.

#116 UPRC

UPRC
  • Member

  • 4,609 posts
  • Joined: February 99

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:07

Why is Webber so upset when he is treated as a no. 2?

Maybe because the team has not been clear on his role as a driver.

They need him to take points of Vettel's rivals but at the same time they need him to gift his wins to Vettel when he is behind.


That's some very dangerous thinking.

#117 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:10

Well the shit is really going to hit the fan now. 2 races in and Seb has basically said what everyone already knew, he does what he likes and knows he is untouchable. Get ready for apocalypse now for the rest of the season.


I know! Great isn't it! :smoking:

#118 Callahan

Callahan
  • Member

  • 594 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:17

I know! Great isn't it! :smoking:

Yep, we could be in for plenty of fireworks from now on. Turkey 2010 will look like a choirboys picnic before this season is finished


#119 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:18

But he shrugged off suggestions that he should have received a formal punishment from Red Bull.

"Maybe it is a little bit of a dreamland that you all live in, but what do you expect to happen?" said Vettel. "Make a suggestion!"

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106631

Excuse me Petal, your slip is showing. :rotfl:

We already know you have no respect for the team.

We already know you believe you are beyond reproach.

But.....

Tisk, tisk, tisk, to take on the press like that is not really a smart move.

Edited by Black Widow, 11 April 2013 - 10:18.


Advertisement

#120 LukeM

LukeM
  • Member

  • 963 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:24

incoming KERS failures

#121 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:35

incoming KERS failures

That's what we all suspect  ;)

Hey, there is a chance that DM has put his foot down and will be watching closely. You never know but Helmut may have lost some power in this one and was forced by DM to make the no team orders statement.

We can only wait and see.

Always the optimist. :rotfl:



#122 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:35

incoming KERS failures

Care to elaborate?

#123 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:36

Care to elaborate?

Care to prove otherwise?

:rotfl:

Edited by Black Widow, 11 April 2013 - 10:39.


#124 reggie

reggie
  • Member

  • 103 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:38

I love the posters here who are saying with remarkable assurance that RB will now short fuel Webber, bugger his pit stops, ruin his strategy, etc; basically do whatever is neccessary to ensure he always finishes behind Vettel; yet the hard, real, factual evidence is exactly the opposite - at the very last race RB gave Webber good stops, a good, car, the best strategy and even ordered Vettel to stay behind him. It really is a case of I hate driver X or team X so I'm going to make stuff up in my head and peddle it as fact.


How did they give Webber the best strategy when they gave Vettel the undercut at the last stops which allowed him to erase a 4 second lead?

#125 drunkenmaster

drunkenmaster
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:44

I love the posters here who are saying with remarkable assurance that RB will now short fuel Webber, bugger his pit stops, ruin his strategy, etc; basically do whatever is neccessary to ensure he always finishes behind Vettel; yet the hard, real, factual evidence is exactly the opposite - at the very last race RB gave Webber good stops, a good, car, the best strategy and even ordered Vettel to stay behind him. It really is a case of I hate driver X or team X so I'm going to make stuff up in my head and peddle it as fact.

:up: This

Really, the whole row started because the team blatantly favored Webber in the last race.

Now people saying that is proof the team will now favor Vettel and sabotage Webber in the future is just so absurd. Alternate reality. Message to all: Vettel was ordered by the team to stay behind Webber, not the other way round, got it?

(And yeah, Vettel is 100% right: Webber has never given any assistance to him and never heeded any team orders himself. Why should Vettel do it? He was perfectly right not to stay behind Webber, despite being faster)



#126 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:49

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106631

Excuse me Petal, your slip is showing. :rotfl:

We already know you have no respect for the team.

We already know you believe you are beyond reproach.

But.....

Tisk, tisk, tisk, to take on the press like that is not really a smart move.


That's probably the second most misguided thing of all - because I think that he is a bit of a sensitive soul - and perception matters to him....... because if it didn't he wouldn't have spent such a long time "working the room".

Of course. The first most misguided thing is once again publicly biting the hand that feeds...... particularly when that hand appears to wield almost as a big an axe as Ferrari at this point in time..........

Edited by maverick69, 11 April 2013 - 10:51.


#127 fabr68

fabr68
  • Member

  • 3,963 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:51

Ahhhhhh. Now I see. That's becuase they would be futile eh Helmut?

"Had I understood the message and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second... I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106631

Guess who's driving for Ferrari next year as predicted :smoking:


Or back to his old team :lol:

#128 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:52

Vettel was ordered by the team to stay behind Webber, not the other way round, got it?

Ans when Vettel went against those team orders and passed Webber, what did the team do? Nothing!

Got it?



#129 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:52

Or back to his old team :lol:


Banished to the stiffs! :lol:

#130 drunkenmaster

drunkenmaster
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:54

Ans when Vettel went against those team orders and passed Webber, what did the team do? Nothing!

Got it?

What did the team do when Webber repeatedly ignored team orders? His antics even cost them nearly the WDC last season...

Nothing...


#131 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:54

How did they give Webber the best strategy when they gave Vettel the undercut at the last stops which allowed him to erase a 4 second lead?

Look, answer me a simple question; do you believe Red Bull did everything they could in Malaysia to ensure Webber finished behind Vettel? Because if they didn't then how can you claim that it's their policy to do so, it's like sitting in your armchair saying that you know for a fact it's going to rain all day while outside the window behind you it's glorious sunshine.

#132 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:14

What did the team do when Webber repeatedly ignored team orders? His antics even cost them nearly the WDC last season...

Nothing...


Indeed. They have been very liberal and did seemingly very little even behind close doors when one of their drivers did far from his best to support his team. Now they were very successful with it and the big intra-team fight sharpened both drivers but there has been quite some fallout from this policy.

There have been relative few 'big' teamorders over the years and quite a few were ignored so I don't see much of a problem in disposing of them but one should be aware that in a very close competition every point can matter.


#133 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:18

What did the team do when Webber repeatedly ignored team orders? His antics even cost them nearly the WDC last season...

Nothing...

As nobody seems to know what the team orders were in Brazil and nobody seems to be able to pinpoint where Webber actually contravened these orders, then your statement "His antics even cost them nearly the WDC last season" is only your opinion and just that, no more no less.

#134 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 2,823 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:33

Seriously how stupid does he think we all are?



#135 halifaxf1fan

halifaxf1fan
  • Member

  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:38

This is probably for the best with the dynamic that exists between these drivers. As the past three seasons have shown, Webber won't follow a team order and Vettel doesn't really need them.

Team orders are pretty much useless if the status quo continues in 2013.

Canada 2010 says he does.


Generally speaking Vettel doesn't need them as he usually is the faster driver, better qualifier, better starter of the two. There is the odd time were Vettel could use the help of his teammate but it isn't going to happen in any situation with Webber. Vettel has been able to cope with this reality over the past three seasons and he will need to do the same this season as well.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 11 April 2013 - 11:55.


#136 drunkenmaster

drunkenmaster
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:47

As nobody seems to know what the team orders were in Brazil and nobody seems to be able to pinpoint where Webber actually contravened these orders, then your statement "His antics even cost them nearly the WDC last season" is only your opinion and just that, no more no less.

I think we can be 99.99% sure that RB told Webber to stay clear of Vettel at the start of Brazil...

Webber didn't really have to *actively* help Vettel in any way, just stay clear from him, instead of nearly pushing him in the wall. I think that little piece of passive help wasn't asked too much by RB, but Webber thought different...


#137 mymemoryfails

mymemoryfails
  • Member

  • 296 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:54

Given what Vettel said today I'm reconsidering my view of Marko.

I've always considered him to be the most vocal Vettel supporter, now I just think Seb tells him what to say.

The piece Marko put in the Red Bulletin slagging Webber between seasons, now surely those words were given to him by Vettel wouldn't you say? Doesn't make sense for Marko to write them other than he's been told to.

Marko is just the puppet so Seb could look "charming". But today the mask is truly off.


mymemoryfails

#138 w00dy

w00dy
  • Member

  • 339 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:54

Seriously how stupid does he think we all are?


This is still just PR, bad PR at its best.

They should come out, say Vettel is clear #1, because he is 3x WDC or because he is blond/german/young.
Accept the inherent performance loss from Mark being #2. If he does something stupid, fire his ass.
Clear, understandable, not so fun solution.
They probably wouldn't get as much money from the FIA/Bernie, (less CC points), but we all know that there is unlimited money coming from Mateschitz anyway...

Instead they will hope that Mark is not as fast as Vettel which is true in most cases. In the few exceptions they will hold him back in other ways.

#139 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:01

I think we can be 99.99% sure that RB told Webber to stay clear of Vettel at the start of Brazil...

Webber didn't really have to *actively* help Vettel in any way, just stay clear from him, instead of nearly pushing him in the wall. I think that little piece of passive help wasn't asked too much by RB, but Webber thought different...

Lots of "I think" there but no fact.

We had a whole thread on the Brazil question and nobody came up with an answer.

You are 99.99% sure of something but this does not mean that it is correct. As I am trying to point out, you don't know and nor do I.



Advertisement

#140 Les

Les
  • Member

  • 2,067 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:03

Today Vettel said although he undermined Horner he is clear that Christian is the boss and he's the driver whilst also saying he would happily disobey a team order in the future. Its pretty clear now, as if it wasn't already, that Vettel is in charge at Red Bull.

#141 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,293 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:04

Lots of "I think" there but no fact.

We had a whole thread on the Brazil question and nobody came up with an answer.

You are 99.99% sure of something but this does not mean that it is correct. As I am trying to point out, you don't know and nor do I.

Thats a lousy argument. They would have to be complete morons not to have discussed Webber's supporting role in Brazil.

If you're going to hold on to that 00.01% chance, then you're just being stubborn.

Today Vettel said although he undermined Horner he is clear that Christian is the boss and he's the driver whilst also saying he would happily disobey a team order in the future. Its pretty clear now, as if it wasn't already, that Vettel is in charge at Red Bull.

Pretty clear Vettel is never going to Ferrari. Nor do I want him there now. Team first, always. If he wants to run things, he can buy and run his own F1 team.

Edited by Seanspeed, 11 April 2013 - 12:06.


#142 BillBald

BillBald
  • Member

  • 3,394 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:11

I love the posters here who are saying with remarkable assurance that RB will now short fuel Webber, bugger his pit stops, ruin his strategy, etc; basically do whatever is neccessary to ensure he always finishes behind Vettel; yet the hard, real, factual evidence is exactly the opposite - at the very last race RB gave Webber good stops, a good, car, the best strategy and even ordered Vettel to stay behind him. It really is a case of I hate driver X or team X so I'm going to make stuff up in my head and peddle it as fact.


It seems to me that you are overstating your case.

The main problem with Vettel's strategy was the early stop for slicks. This would have been Vettel's call. Even if the team suggested an early stop, Vettel was the one driving the car, he could have said it was too soon for the conditions.

The only time the team would intervene in this decision would be if other cars had already stopped, and were going faster on slicks than Vettel on inters.

After Vettel put himself behind Webber, this created a problem for the team. After they've been trying for the last 3 years to put pressure on Ferrari and discourage them from putting Alonso in front of Felipe, finally there's a situation this year where Ferrari might find themselves having to do the switcharoo rather frequently, because of Massa's excellent qualifying of late.

So I for one find it easy to understand why RB were reluctant to blatantly favour their no. 1 driver in only the second race of the season. Basically that would have been giving Ferrari a free pass. F1 is about politics as well as racing.

It's very unlikely that the team actually wanted Vettel to be behind Webber, but they did need to make sure the tyres lasted, so really they had no choice but to issue 'hold position'. The very feeble 'silly' response from Horner when it became clear that Vettel was not going to follow orders shows that the team is still backing Vettel (and he knows it of course).

Edited by BillBald, 11 April 2013 - 12:15.


#143 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:14

Pretty clear Vettel is never going to Ferrari. Nor do I want him there now. Team first, always. If he wants to run things, he can buy and run his own F1 team.



DITTO

#144 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,293 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:15

After Vettel put himself behind Webber, this created a problem for the team. After they've been trying for the last 3 years to put pressure on Ferrari and discourage them from putting Alonso in front of Felipe, finally there's a situation this year where Ferrari might find themselves having to do the switcharoo rather frequently, because of Massa's excellent qualifying of late.

:confused:

#145 mymemoryfails

mymemoryfails
  • Member

  • 296 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:16

It seems to me that you are overstating your case.

The main problem with Vettel's strategy was the early stop for slicks. This would have been Vettel's call. Even if the team suggested an early stop, Vettel was the one driving the car, he could have said it was too soon for the conditions.

The only time the team would intervene in this decision would be if other cars had already stopped, and were going faster on slicks than Vettel on inters.

After Vettel put himself behind Webber, this created a problem for the team. After they've been trying for the last 3 years to put pressure on Ferrari and discourage them from putting Alonso in front of Felipe, finally there's a situation this year where Ferrari might find themselves having to do the switcharoo rather frequently, because of Massa's excellent qualifying of late.

So I for one find it easy to understand why RB were reluctant to apply team orders in only the second race of the season. Basically that would have been giving Ferrari a free pass. F1 is about politics as well as racing.

It's very unlikely that the team actually wanted Vettel to be behind Webber, but they did need to make sure the tyres lasted, so really they had no choice but to issue 'hold position'. The very feeble 'silly' response from Horner when it became clear that Vettel was not going to follow orders shows that the team is still backing Vettel (and he knows it of course).


surely Seb will want the next year's driver to be slower than Mark. Much better all round

mymemoryfails



#146 fabr68

fabr68
  • Member

  • 3,963 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:19

Thats a lousy argument. They would have to be complete morons not to have discussed Webber's supporting role in Brazil.

If you're going to hold on to that 00.01% chance, then you're just being stubborn.


Pretty clear Vettel is never going to Ferrari. Nor do I want him there now. Team first, always. If he wants to run things, he can buy and run his own F1 team.


I cant imagine the Tifosi and LDM reaction if Vettel causes a crash and loses Ferrari a 1-2 after ignoring Domenicalli on the radio. Vettel might as well move to the Moon.

#147 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:20

surely Seb will want the next year's driver to be slower than Mark. Much better all round

mymemoryfails


I dunno. Fred is pretty quick :smoking:

#148 Black Widow

Black Widow
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:30

Thats a lousy argument. They would have to be complete morons not to have discussed Webber's supporting role in Brazil.

If you're going to hold on to that 00.01% chance, then you're just being stubborn.

Somebody telling me "I think we can be 99.99% sure" of something only means that they are 99.99% sure of their own opinion. It is not a fact and nor are they implying that it is. Therefore your comment, "If you're going to hold on to that 00.01% chance, then you're just being stubborn" does not hold water in this case because we are talking about somebody's opinion. Your error is that that you are mixing opinion with fact. If the poster was 99.99% sure of the facts then you would be right but as it is only an opinion then you are wrong.

As far as the start goes, you must remember that even Charlie recognizes and allows more latitude to drivers during the start of a race.  ;)




#149 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,293 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:34

Somebody telling me "I think we can be 99.99% sure" of something only means that they are 99.99% sure of their own opinion. It is not a fact and nor are they implying that it is. Therefore your comment, "If you're going to hold on to that 00.01% chance, then you're just being stubborn" does not hold water in this case because we are talking about somebody's opinion. Your error is that that you are mixing opinion with fact. If the poster was 99.99% sure of the facts then you would be right but as it is only an opinion then you are wrong.

As far as the start goes, you must remember that even Charlie recognizes and allows more latitude to drivers during the start of a race.;)

You're definitely being stubborn if you're going to disregard how insanely idiotic Red Bull would have to be to not have gone over Webber's role that weekend.

There's LOTS of things we cant prove 100%, but can be quite sure of still.

I cant believe you're even arguing it honestly. Some serious clutching at straws.

Edited by Seanspeed, 11 April 2013 - 12:36.


#150 Astro

Astro
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:39

Pretty clear Vettel is never going to Ferrari. Nor do I want him there now. Team first, always. If he wants to run things, he can buy and run his own F1 team.


I'll go with that :up: