Another look at the Boyle Maserati
#1
Posted 11 April 2013 - 22:22
Another Look at the Boyle Maserati 8CTF | Mac's Motor City Garage.com
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#2
Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:47
#3
Posted 12 April 2013 - 15:11
I must admit that my knowledge of the history of the 8CTF cars on their own side of the Atlantic is highly lacking. (As well as on other Masers that ran Indy.) Not to be fishing but no doubt there are experts here and I welcome being schooled on the topic.
#4
Posted 12 April 2013 - 15:17
Relevant answers may be credited and used in a forth coming blog.
#5
Posted 12 April 2013 - 15:37
No, Ralph. If you read to the bottom of the story, you will see that it lives in the Indianapolis MuseumIs this the same 8CTF that is now part of the Collier Collection ?
#6
Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:12
Only European race for the Boyle/Shaw car (3032) was the 1938 Italian GP (Trossi) before it crossed the AtlanticI must admit that my knowledge of the history of the 8CTF cars on their own side of the Atlantic is highly lacking. Not to be fishing but no doubt there are experts here and I welcome being schooled on the topic.
Earlier in 1938 3030 and 3031 had appeared in the Tripoli GP (Trossi and Varzi respectively) and the German GP and the Coppa Ciano (Trossi and Zehender), but only 3030 was out for the Coppa Acerbo (shared by Trossi and Villoresi). For the Italian GP Trossi – as mentioned – had 3032, Zehender presumably 3031 and Villoresi 3030. Villoresi was the only entry at Donington, in which car I’m not certain
In 1939 the works did not race until the German GP, where Villoresi was in 3030 and Pietsch in 3031
They also appeared at the Swiss GP under the aegis of Ecurie Bleue, Dreyfus racing 3030 but Raph in 3031 being a non-starter
Both cars were entered in the 1940 Indianapolis 500 by Ecurie Lucy O’Reilly Schell, 3030 for Dreyfus and 3031 for Lebègue, though only the latter car started, shared by both drivers
While the Boyle organisation retained 3032 for Shaw’s use in 1941, 3030 was entered by Lou Moore Inc for Mauri Rose, and 3031 by Elgin Piston Pins for Duke Nalon, and the subsequent US histories of all three cars has been discussed elsewehere on this forum
3030 is the car now in the Collier Museum. 3031 returned to Europe for historic racing in the ’60s but last I heard was back in the States with Joel Finn. And 3032 has been in the Indianapolis museum since 1955
#7
Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:53
Mainly in this thread, I think:While the Boyle organisation retained 3032 for Shaw’s use in 1941, 3030 was entered by Lou Moore Inc for Mauri Rose, and 3031 by Elgin Piston Pins for Duke Nalon, and the subsequent US histories of all three cars has been discussed elsewehere on this forum
Wilbur Shaw's Maserati
#8
Posted 12 April 2013 - 18:10
#9
Posted 12 April 2013 - 18:29
Also here is another look at these beautiful cars http://www.velocetod...ndy-interludes/
Edited by VWV, 12 April 2013 - 20:54.
#10
Posted 12 April 2013 - 20:12
http://www.maserati-...i50/500-09a.jpgBoth cars were entered in the 1940 Indianapolis 500 by Ecurie Lucy O’Reilly Schell, 3030 for Dreyfus and 3031 for Lebègue, though only the latter car started, shared by both drivers
#3031 at Indianapolis in 1940
http://www.maserati-...i50/500-10a.jpg
Emil Andres in 1946
Edited by Alan Cox, 12 April 2013 - 20:12.
#11
Posted 12 April 2013 - 21:28
I took pics of every car...
#12
Posted 12 April 2013 - 21:43
If it's at the Indy Museum, how come I don't have a picture of it?
I took pics of every car...
Perhaps it was in the basement the day you went. I understand the Indianapolis museum rotate their exhibits.
#13
Posted 12 April 2013 - 21:49
Or out on loan somewhere. It's certainly been to Goodwood in the past.Perhaps it was in the basement the day you went. I understand the Indianapolis museum rotate their exhibits.
#14
Posted 12 April 2013 - 21:53
The name of Écurie Bleue was changed to Écurie Lucy O'Reilly Schell in December 1938. Very few people seem to have noticed though!They also appeared at the Swiss GP under the aegis of Ecurie Bleue, Dreyfus racing 3030 but Raph in 3031 being a non-starter
#15
Posted 12 April 2013 - 22:21
I've seen a blue Schell or Écurie Bleue car at goodwood, but has the Boyle car also been there?Or out on loan somewhere. It's certainly been to Goodwood in the past.
#16
Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:52
On the Thursday before the 2002 USGP at Indianapolis, Michael Schumacher drove it around the track. I was lucky (and fast enough) to make it back to the Museum as it was driven back into the lower level garage. What a treat to see and hear this historic car!
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#17
Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:23
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/Or out on loan somewhere. It's certainly been to Goodwood in the past.
http://www.flickr.co...N06/4783069315/
http://www.ultimatec...ati-8CTF_1.html
#18
Posted 13 April 2013 - 14:54
I've seen a blue Schell or Écurie Bleue car at goodwood, but has the Boyle car also been there?
It was certainly there in 2010 as it was my favourite exhibit that year.
The best looking Indy winner ever? And certainly one with some illustrious pilots in its day (and beyond it).
#19
Posted 13 April 2013 - 15:05
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#20
Posted 13 April 2013 - 21:26
In the Jan/Feb 2013 issue of Vintage Motorsport magazine there is an excellent indepth Michael T Lynch article on these Maserati's.
Also here is another look at these beautiful cars http://www.velocetod...ndy-interludes/
Not to sharpshoot but strictly in the interest of good info...while the Veloce Today piece says that the 8CTF used mechanical brakes, in fact they are hydraulic. Those on the Boyle car 3032 are, at any rate, and I don't believe they have ever been altered.
#21
Posted 02 May 2013 - 21:56
They also appeared at the Swiss GP under the aegis of Ecurie Bleue, Dreyfus racing 3030 but Raph in 3031 being a non-starter
Both cars were entered in the 1940 Indianapolis 500 by Ecurie Lucy O’Reilly Schell, 3030 for Dreyfus and 3031 for Lebègue, though only the latter car started, shared by both drivers
Gosh ! if I thought the 1913 Peugeot was difficult it seems as nothing compared to 3030.
David could you clarify Dreyfus started the Swiss GP in 3030 ?
Also in this linked post MF has René Le Begue/René Dreyfus sharing the #49 3030 at Indy while the #22 3031 entered for Drefus did not start ?
Finally can anyone comment on the circumstances that led to Dreyfus taking over the #49 from Le Beugue ?
#22
Posted 02 May 2013 - 22:28
The reports of that race are contradictory regarding Le Bègue, not helped by the fact that none of the usual British reporters were present. I've looked at French, German, Swiss and Italian reports as well and I'm none the wiser! Some suggest that he non-started, some that he retired: I tend towards it being a last-minute DNS rather than a DNF. Perhaps even pushed off the grid before the start?
Re Indianapolis: the team had misunderstood the Indy qualification rules and assumed that providing they achieved the required qualifying speed they would be allowed to start, not realising they could be bumped if somebody managed a faster time. They had also not realised that once they set a qualifying time they weren't allowed to go out again to beat it. After Dreyfus was bumped, Wilbur Shaw actually led a group of drivers who suggested that he should be allowed to start anyway, but IMS weren't going to bend their rules for a "furriner"!
Dreyfus accepted the decision and he and Le Bègue agreed to share the drive. As he wanted more practice and since his own car had been eliminated he had to go out in the one Le Bègue had qualified: he managed to improve his lap times by several seconds, but then the engine let go! They therefore had to take the engine out of Dreyfus' car and fit it in Le Bègue's.
#23
Posted 02 May 2013 - 23:06
Edited by fbarrett, 02 May 2013 - 23:08.
#24
Posted 02 May 2013 - 23:16
Swiss GP: http://www.kolumbus....an/gp396.htm#22
The reports of that race are contradictory regarding Le Bègue, not helped by the fact that none of the usual British reporters were present. I've looked at French, German, Swiss and Italian reports as well and I'm none the wiser! Some suggest that he non-started, some that he retired: I tend towards it being a last-minute DNS rather than a DNF. Perhaps even pushed off the grid before the start?
Re Indianapolis: the team had misunderstood the Indy qualification rules and assumed that providing they achieved the required qualifying speed they would be allowed to start, not realising they could be bumped if somebody managed a faster time. They had also not realised that once they set a qualifying time they weren't allowed to go out again to beat it. After Dreyfus was bumped, Wilbur Shaw actually led a group of drivers who suggested that he should be allowed to start anyway, but IMS weren't going to bend their rules for a "furriner"!
Dreyfus accepted the decision and he and Le Bègue agreed to share the drive. As he wanted more practice and since his own car had been eliminated he had to go out in the one Le Bègue had qualified: he managed to improve his lap times by several seconds, but then the engine let go! They therefore had to take the engine out of Dreyfus' car and fit it in Le Bègue's.
Most kind V2 I think I at least have the story of what happened to 3030 straight for 1940 and perhaps I'll leave it at that for the blog and point my readers to further light reading in the cabianca, fines, Gerr, O Volante, et al magnus opus if they want to know more
#25
Posted 14 May 2013 - 15:34
#26
Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:00
#27
Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:06
As my name is mentioned in the blog I would like to make clear that I would not have said "Rootes Type" for Roots-type, or Peitsch for Pietsch, or Lucille O'Reilly for Lucy O'Reilly Schell
Thanks for the corrections David
#28
Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:00
An interesting article on the current state of the Boyle Racing workshop at 1701 Gent Ave:
http://www.indystar....-ruins/4144939/