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McLaren Mp4-28 Part II


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#1 Mc_Silver

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 18:32

Let's hope this new thread will bring us luck for tomorrow's race and other coming races :wave:


Part I: http://forums.autosp...w...t=0&start=0


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#2 tkulla

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 18:41

So what new parts did they actually use for qualifying (and therefore will race)?

#3 10e10

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 19:58

So what new parts did they actually use for qualifying (and therefore will race)?


From the look, new sidepods and exhaust configuration.

#4 Peter Perfect

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 20:29

From the look, new sidepods and exhaust configuration.

The trouble is we don't really know which parts were planned upgrades and which were to help with 'the problem'. :well:

#5 peroa

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 20:41

http://www.auto-moto...na-6920110.html
One of the main culprits seem to be the new tyres which deform differently in corners which Mclaren missed in Brasil last year and in the windtunnel.
That's also why all "new" cars have problems, McLaren, Williams and Sauber and the evolutions don't.

#6 study

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 20:56

That's also why all "new" cars have problems, McLaren, Williams and Sauber and the evolutions don't.


Explain why that would be a issue.

The evolutions use the same tyres and also would have being originally designed for last years cars. Thats a poor excuse for cocking up I think.

#7 BillBald

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:40

Explain why that would be a issue.

The evolutions use the same tyres and also would have being originally designed for last years cars. Thats a poor excuse for cocking up I think.


I suppose that the more radical cars should have taken longer to design, so possibly they wouldn't have got their hands on actual 2013 tyres until after most of the design work had been completed.

Doesn't really excuse the McLaren cockup, but perhaps explains it a little.



#8 JaredS

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:55

http://www.auto-moto...na-6920110.html
One of the main culprits seem to be the new tyres which deform differently in corners which Mclaren missed in Brasil last year and in the windtunnel.
That's also why all "new" cars have problems, McLaren, Williams and Sauber and the evolutions don't.


Isn't the Mercedes and Lotus a new car too? They don't seem to have the same problems.

#9 nosecone

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:48

the link posted above does also say that the new parts for this weekend weren't tested it the Windtunnel :eek: because they use them for the Barcelona Update. This is interesting because they have changed quite a lot. The exhaust exits furhter at the front and they changed the shape of the rear sidepod. THis are, according to the link only minor updates compared to the update they have for Barceloooona. Looking forward to Barca.

But that every new cars are in trouble is just speculation by the author

Edited by nosecone, 14 April 2013 - 06:55.


#10 PNSD

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:56

It's no surprise updates are not testing in the tunnel.

Once the baseline car has been finalised, much of the wind tunnel work focuses on aero mapping, whilst developments are often only tested in CFD. Depending on various circumstances of course.

#11 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:57

Good Luck Jenson Checo and The 28.

Keep the faith

#12 10e10

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:43

P5, finally some good points. But too far way from the leaders still. McLaren really needs to push, if they want this car to win.

#13 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:46

P5, finally some good points. But too far way from the leaders still. McLaren really needs to push, if they want this car to win.



Wow Amazing race by Jenson.Car needs more development but i think we are in correct way!!

Race pace was good for two stops!!!

Roll on to Bahrain

Keep the faith!

#14 Raziel

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:47

Good job Jenson! Great tyre management! I don´t know what to say about Perez! I´ll give him more time and wait until Monaco but so far he was with Heikki mk.2 written all over his head! :well:

#15 xAtarigeekx

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:50

I wouldn't worry too much about Perez just yet, did anyone honestly expect him to absolutely brilliant? He's a long term project. They're sacrificed having 2 championship contending drivers this year for the chance of developing Perez to be WDC down the line.

The car is looking better though. Hopefully by Barcelona it can be truly competitive.

#16 10e10

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:51

Wow Amazing race by Jenson.Car needs more development but i think we are in correct way!!

Race pace was good for two stops!!!

Roll on to Bahrain

Keep the faith!


Yeah, Jenson was amazing today, did a great race and management. However, development is key, we need to be fighting at the front. I don't know what to expect of Perez, I know the car isn't up to the job, but I was hoping for more. We need him to collect points.

#17 Collective

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:52

Yeah, Jenson was amazing today, did a great race and management. However, development is key, we need to be fighting at the front. I don't know what to expect of Perez, I know the car isn't up to the job, but I was hoping for more. We need him to collect points.

I kinda feel it was extremely stupid to put softs for the 1st stop. Checo just fell like a stone there. Still, I expected more. We'll see, hope improvements come soon on the car.

Edited by Collective, 14 April 2013 - 08:52.


#18 Disgrace

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:53

Both McLarens ran far too long on the softs. Button lost 20 seconds to Vettel in the final stint on the softs.

#19 10e10

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:55

Both McLarens ran far too long on the softs. Button lost 20 seconds to Vettel in the final stint on the softs.


My initial thought as well, maybe he should have stopped when Vettel did, but would he be able to catch Massa and DiResta then? Wouldn't they be far way down the road?

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#20 f1rules

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:57

ok drive from jenson, still this car needs a full mech overhaul and when that comes, season will be wasted, at least i can enjoy the old mclaren drivers

#21 Absulute

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:58

Great job by Jenson today. P5 is the maximum anyone could have got from this car.

P11 isn't really good enough from Checo though, though I guess he was lucky to finish after nearly being punted off by Kimi.

#22 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:00

Both McLarens ran far too long on the softs. Button lost 20 seconds to Vettel in the final stint on the softs.

Vettel was going all out though, Button wasn't really pushing on the softs except to pass Massa, and on the final lap.

#23 Mc_Silver

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:08

Well, it was the best result we could hope for. Button did a great job and looked after his tyres very well throughout the race. I thought he was eating his soft tyres but he did pretty fast lap at the end. I think he did not push at all to save the softs. Nevertheless good result considering the car we have. We have to improve our car. Perez needs to step up his game as soon as possible.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 14 April 2013 - 09:12.


#24 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:12

Both McLarens ran far too long on the softs. Button lost 20 seconds to Vettel in the final stint on the softs.



Yeah.... was curious o worrying? :confused:

#25 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:17

Both McLarens ran far too long on the softs. Button lost 20 seconds to Vettel in the final stint on the softs.

Button raced Massa and did a very effective job.

#26 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:18

Might've looked great during the race but due to his strategy Button was always going to appear to be more competitive than he actually was. Still a far way off the leaders at the finish, 5th is nice but Massa underperforming and Rosberg & Webber retiring kind of masked the situation.

#27 onewingedangel

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:21

Vettel was going all out though, Button wasn't really pushing on the softs except to pass Massa, and on the final lap.


Exactly. Vettel had nothing to lose by pushing and risking the tyres dropping off due to the gap behind, wheras Button had nothing to gain and a good bit to lose if the tyres went off.

#28 PNSD

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:22

At around lap 45ish Button was still only around 6-7 seconds of Vettel I believe.

Considering his first stint where he was up to 5 seconds behind, I think thats reasonably good.

The gap to Vettel at the end was because he banzai'd it to catch Lewis.

Great race by JB. The looks awful in traffic though? I guess that's due to the sensitivity they're getting. Maybe part of the problem is pitch sensitivity? Whenever JB was behind someone, his middle sector was awful, dog awful.

#29 Buttoneer

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:22

Hamilton & Alonso are off topic. Move on.

#30 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:24

Interesting, Button saying that he really thinks this result is thanks to the strategy, and that on a 3 stopper P5 would not have been possible.

#31 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:26

The looks awful in traffic though? I guess that's due to the sensitivity they're getting. Maybe part of the problem is pitch sensitivity? Whenever JB was behind someone, his middle sector was awful, dog awful.

I noticed the same, was a bit worrying. Like Jenson just said in his Sky interview, he had to be careful the whole race to avoid flatspots and marbles as it would ruin his tyres and thereby his strategy (because it was so on the limit), which isn't easy when going through traffic.

Edited by Lights, 14 April 2013 - 09:26.


#32 midgrid

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:29

I kinda feel it was extremely stupid to put softs for the 1st stop. Checo just fell like a stone there. Still, I expected more. We'll see, hope improvements come soon on the car.


The BBC (Anderson or Clarkson, can't remember which) said that Pérez was put on the softs early to test the tyre life for Button's final stint later on.

#33 Balths

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:31

Car lacks a lot of pace. Positions masked today by Webber/Rosberg retiring.

Not sure about Perez, looks fairly horrible. Jenson's pretty standard as is the norm.

If they're in the same situation come Barcelona, might as well focus on 2014.

#34 Iron Maiden

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:33

Interesting, Button saying that he really thinks this result is thanks to the strategy, and that on a 3 stopper P5 would not have been possible.


Not sure, his first stint was very strong the pace on old tyres was extremely good. The second stint was nowhere near as good and it looked for a while that the strategy going horribly wrong. I guess he was having to stretch the stint as much as possible though.

I think the last stint was Jenson pacing himself so that the tyres didnt fall apart

Perez's first stint was also good but his tyres seemed to go off quicker, from there he was in traffic and the strategy didn't work out at all.

#35 Rurouni

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:00

The BBC (Anderson or Clarkson, can't remember which) said that Pérez was put on the softs early to test the tyre life for Button's final stint later on.

Actually I would like Button to use soft for the middle stint and push like hell and immediately change to prime when the time fell of too much (as in much slower than everyone else). Because they put soft for the last stint, Button can't really push too much, thus not maximizing the soft tyre. Instead of trying to manage the already cheese tyre, might as well use it to the fullest.

The problem with those that choose soft for the middle stint is that they're trying to extend the usage, even at the expense of running slower than everyone else.

#36 midgrid

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:03

Actually I would like Button to use soft for the middle stint and push like hell and immediately change to prime when the time fell of too much (as in much slower than everyone else). Because they put soft for the last stint, Button can't really push too much, thus not maximizing the soft tyre. Instead of trying to manage the already cheese tyre, might as well use it to the fullest.

The problem with those that choose soft for the middle stint is that they're trying to extend the usage, even at the expense of running slower than everyone else.


But this is what Pérez and Hülkenberg did, and they both lost a significant amount of time relative to where they were before. Hülkenberg was in fact ahead of Button before this strategy divergence, but ended up about 30 seconds behind. Button was on the right strategy.

#37 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:08

But this is what Pérez and Hülkenberg did, and they both lost a significant amount of time relative to where they were before. Hülkenberg was in fact ahead of Button before this strategy divergence, but ended up about 30 seconds behind. Button was on the right strategy.

Hulkenberg did two more stops after that point, and Button one.

Perez was perhaps left out a lap too long on the softs but in the end it wouldn't have made a difference.

#38 Siperoth

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:16

I wouldn't worry too much about Perez just yet, did anyone honestly expect him to absolutely brilliant? He's a long term project. They're sacrificed having 2 championship contending drivers this year for the chance of developing Perez to be WDC down the line.


Sorry but i don't agree with that. Ether you got talent and speed or you don't. Is not like it's his first year in F1 ether. He drove two years with Sauber. That's more than enough miles and experience. He better start delivering come Europe races or he will probably be another Heiki.

#39 midgrid

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:16

Hulkenberg did two more stops after that point, and Button one.


Whoops, sorry, let me amend that to five or six seconds behind Vettel at the time, but about 45 seconds behind at the end of the race.

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#40 JRizzle86

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:18

Car has improved from Malaysia and Button was great today. Perez less so, quite disappointing so far this season.

#41 jjcale

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:20

Good drive by JB... becoming slightly concerned about SP.

Good stuff from the team over all.... looking forward to progressive improvements race on race as they understand the car more and refine it race by race.

#42 F1ultimate

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:21

Mclaren is currently a midfield team.


Today the team was able to mask their performance by going on alternative tyre strategies but in Monaco, Spain and Hungary that won't be possible. On those circuits overtaking is difficult and qualifying more often dictate the finishing order. Mclaren must upp their qualifying performance if they wish to contend for any title this year. Withmarsh need to act otherwise this year will be a write-off and will not give the team confidence going into 2014.

#43 MirNyet

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:42

Watching the on boards, the McLaren looks a lot more stable than in previous races so progress is obviously being made, but it's still just not fast. How much of that is the car, and how much is the drivers is of course a different topic... Might just be my perception but they do look like they are running a bit more wing than some other teams - this could explain their performance on the straight but does suggest that they still have a lack of downforce. Overall, still disappointing.

#44 10e10

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:46

Perez says that this was the worst race they had concerning race pace. It's bad news if true, because we know Button managed P5 with a different strategy. It's disappointing because I was expecting them to be faster. I guess the result and points taken aren't so bad compared to our pace.

#45 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:52

Perez says that this was the worst race they had concerning race pace. It's bad news if true, because we know Button managed P5 with a different strategy. It's disappointing because I was expecting them to be faster. I guess the result and points taken aren't so bad compared to our pace.

I think it was the worst race HE had. Australia was probably worse, all things considered, overall for the team. Early at the stints his pace was the same as JB-s but then at the end of the stints his times dropped off massively.

#46 Lights

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:09

I think it was the worst race HE had. Australia was probably worse, all things considered, overall for the team. Early at the stints his pace was the same as JB-s but then at the end of the stints his times dropped off massively.

Wouldn't Perez have finished like 60 seconds behind Button in Malaysia? Or am I forgetting something that happened there that affected his pace.

#47 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:44

Wouldn't Perez have finished like 60 seconds behind Button in Malaysia? Or am I forgetting something that happened there that affected his pace.

Well, thing is that he got the points (the only points of his so far) so I reckon he racked them up on the plus side of the scoretable. This time he was pointless AND trounced so that's gotta hurt some more. Anyhow. That part should be in the other thread.

#48 tkulla

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:19

One thing we know for sure is that the primary suspension issue has yet to be dealt with - there were a couple of slow motion shots last night where you could see the 28 porpoising for quite a while. Hopefully there's a full-on fix for that scheduled for Spain. Frankly, I'm not sure how Button is dragging that thing into good points paying positions right now, but hopefully he will have a car that can fight for wins soon.

#49 BillBald

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:33

Mclaren is currently a midfield team.


Today the team was able to mask their performance by going on alternative tyre strategies but in Monaco, Spain and Hungary that won't be possible. On those circuits overtaking is difficult and qualifying more often dictate the finishing order. Mclaren must upp their qualifying performance if they wish to contend for any title this year. Withmarsh need to act otherwise this year will be a write-off and will not give the team confidence going into 2014.


In fact at those tracks the alternative strategy can work well due to the difficulty in overtaking, eg Vettel last year at Monaco. With the 2 DRS zones, the guys who started on options weren't held up very much when fighting their way back after the early pit stop, otherwise starting on primes might have paid more dividends.



#50 Wouter

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:44

Great job by Jenson today. P5 is the maximum anyone could have got from this car.

P11 isn't really good enough from Checo though, though I guess he was lucky to finish after nearly being punted off by Kimi.

It was a great drive from Button, who was able to make a two-stopper work in very difficult circumstances.

I still wonder if the MP4-27 wouldn't have been more succesful in the fly-aways at least, and possibly would be more succesful over the whole season. Both drivers say the current car is unpredictable and doesn't inspire confidence.