2542 replies to this topic

[Lights]

Best result of the season, by far.

 

Looks like their weekend strategy did work.

[pacificquay]

One glimmer of light in a poor season - McLaren this year was the first team in history to have both cars as classified finishers at every single race of the season

[nosecone]

Button completed the most laps this year. just ahead of Vettel.

 

4th place. Is it still McLarens worst season?

[onewingedangel]

Best result of the season, by far.

 

Looks like their weekend strategy did work.

 

As they didn't use the wets or intermediates in the race, more running in free practice ahead of qualifying wouldn't have done any harm to potentially starting further up the grid.

[ATM]

 

 

4th place. Is it still McLarens worst season?

 

Yep...in 1980 McLaren managed to get 4th place twice, by Watson. Still , Watson only finished 11th in the championship, so since Button finished 9th...how do we rate it? 

Edited by ATM, 24 November 2013 - 18:19.

[DanardiF1]

Why is the super stiff McLaren always good at Interlagos which is notoriously bumpy?

[Richard T]

So long Mr. Mp4-28! Enjoy your winter with mrs mp4-24, cuz come january.. It's junkyard time!

[Fastcake]

One glimmer of light in a poor season - McLaren this year was the first team in history to have both cars as classified finishers at every single race of the season

 

If only last year's car was that reliable...

 

Ah well, life goes on. 'Til next year.

[Lemans]

Goodbye MP4/28.

You were beautiful but about as sharp as a sack of wet rats.

[mp4x]

I detest the fact we should be happy with today’s results. We support the team that whenever they’re not winning the championships their fans become extremely angry. Today was one of those occasions that the team accidently got it right and we had a very solid race and it shows whenever you’re on the right track the factor of luck (Massa and Hamilton penalties) comes to you. I think if we had like ten more laps both drivers could catch Alonso as we saw he backed off a little bit something like last two laps because of his engine concerns.

[Owen]

The pull rod suspension as raced on the 28

http://www.formula1....3/912/1131.html

[mclara]

When will a thread for the MP4-29 be stated? Do we have any information about the car yet?

Edited by mclara, 26 November 2013 - 14:46.

[Fastcake]

When will a thread for the MP4-29 be stated? Do we have any information about the car yet?

 

It won't have Vodafone on it. And it will have a seat moulded for Magnessun's backside. That's about all

[mlsnoopy]

It won't have Vodafone on it. And it will have a seat moulded for Magnessun's backside. That's about all

 

It will have a mercedes engine. 

[Holdenboy]

when one of the suspension bars is fitted upside down, the car immediately goes 2 seconds faster

Edited by Holdenboy, 26 November 2013 - 17:14.

[ERICTOPF1]

Rumors say that it is already faster than the MP4-28

[ATM]

Eeh, who knows what they've got installed wrong this time in it...

 

And anyway, let's say it's not just a controlled team leak and the car  might really be faster -  but it all depends on how it will look at the first test. After all, Macca have said repeatedly that MP28 was faster than the 2012 car, it's just that the competition progresses even faster. 

 

 

BTW: why could they not run the suspension thingy installed upside down, if it made the car fast? was it too low, or unsafe?

Edited by ATM, 26 November 2013 - 19:11.

[Peter Perfect]

Eeh, who knows what they've got installed wrong this time in it...

 

And anyway, let's say it's not just a controlled team leak and the car  might really be faster -  but it all depends on how it will look at the first test. After all, Macca have said repeatedly that MP28 was faster than the 2012 car, it's just that the competition progresses even faster. 

 

 

BTW: why could they not run the suspension thingy installed upside down, if it made the car fast? was it too low, or unsafe?

I thought it was because it lowered the ride height (which gave more downforce and so great lap times). It was something they couldn't use in the races because as soon as they put a full tank of fuel in it it would've been dragging on the ground, hence an unusable set-up.

Edited by Peter Perfect, 26 November 2013 - 19:17.

[Arn]

Is the new car running, or how can they say that the new car is already faster?

 

Can simulation tell something like that precisely enough to know?

[BillBald]

Is the new car running, or how can they say that the new car is already faster?

 

Can simulation tell something like that precisely enough to know?

 

I'm sure it's not running yet, this must be based on simulation.

 

And no, it's not that precise, that's why they thought the 28 was a killer until they actually tried running it on the track.

 

BTW, where did this rumour come from?

[Maustinsj]

I'm sure it's not running yet, this must be based on simulation.

 

And no, it's not that precise, that's why they thought the 28 was a killer until they actually tried running it on the track.

 

BTW, where did this rumour come from?

 

It came from the rumours from last year's thread! i.e. tongue-in-cheek 

Edited by Maustinsj, 26 November 2013 - 21:10.

[BillBald]

I thought it was because it lowered the ride height (which gave more downforce and so great lap times). It was something they couldn't use in the races because as soon as they put a full tank of fuel in it it would've been dragging on the ground, hence an unusable set-up.

 

Yes, that's what I understood as well. You can't run a ride height which will cause the plank to get worn beyond certain limits.

[BillBald]

It came from the rumours from last year's thread! i.e. tongue-in-cheek 

 

OK, should have known.

[Owen]

Wonder if they will keep the pull rod layout at the front?

[f1rules]

So do we want to see brawn at mclaren or??? I think some of his no compromise, winning at all cause approach would be nice in the team. But would his type work in mclaren?. Well i quess this change hasnt been all bad. Finally some positives. The guy responsible for the worst mclaren in years is gone, i know he was not solely responsible but still. Mclaren recruited the guy responsible for producing the best aero package for years in a row, a person that will have good knowledge on what makes rb so good, a person that will probably bring other personal from rb with him. Honda is coming, kevin is in the car, and hopefully he will live up to the expectations. Thinks are not all bad at the moment i quess

[Dalton007]

I'm sure it's not running yet, this must be based on simulation.

 

And no, it's not that precise, that's why they thought the 28 was a killer until they actually tried running it on the track.

 

BTW, where did this rumour come from?

 

The car certainly drove better once they reverted to the '12 tyre construction, but by then it was too late.

[Owen]

On the late season surge in performance:

 

Whitmarsh said there were already encouraging signs about a performance lift from his team at the end of this year, even though it still did not achieve enough.

"I think the last four or five races we have flattered to deceive as it were," he said. "I have sensed we did make progress.

"We were racing Ferrari and Lotus and Mercedes, but we didn't quite nail it. "You can see we had similar pace, which is ironic given that the car hasn't touched the wind tunnel for about four months and we were not doing anything [to improve it]."

 

http://uk.eurosport....928452--f1.html

 

kinda weird. But I'll take it.

[mlsnoopy]

On the late season surge in performance:

 

Whitmarsh said there were already encouraging signs about a performance lift from his team at the end of this year, even though it still did not achieve enough.

"I think the last four or five races we have flattered to deceive as it were," he said. "I have sensed we did make progress.

"We were racing Ferrari and Lotus and Mercedes, but we didn't quite nail it. "You can see we had similar pace, which is ironic given that the car hasn't touched the wind tunnel for about four months and we were not doing anything [to improve it]."

 

http://uk.eurosport....928452--f1.html

 

kinda weird. But I'll take it.

 

What is weird about it? It just confirms that set up was problematic. And that if the drivers got the car working it was a good car.

[BillBald]

What is weird about it? It just confirms that set up was problematic. And that if the drivers got the car working it was a good car.

 

So you were right after all? It was the drivers who were at fault?

 

I don't think so. It's not that unusual for a car to improve when they've stopped producing updates. The fact is that there is not enough free practice time to try out a bunch of updates and also get a good setup. Even more so, if FPs are interrupted by rain.

 

Another factor would be the simulator. A lot of setup work is done here, and if the simulator is not well correlated, the results are going to be unhelpful.

 

So this proves nothing at all, except that the simulator seems to now be working well. But I'm sure that won't stop you repeating the same nonsense.

[Peter Perfect]

Apologies if it's already been posted but I've just listened to the unedited interview with MW - https://soundcloud.c...-whitmarsh-full

 

Interestingly when asked about Peter Prodromou he mentioned that they've already recruited other aero specialists - 1 from Ferrari, another from RB and 1 from Lotus (but names no names)

[study]

Very disappointing year, they shelve last years very fast car to develop something new that would give them better develop scope, but. I never saw much development?

[CrucialXtreme]

Apologies if it's already been posted but I've just listened to the unedited interview with MW - https://soundcloud.c...-whitmarsh-full

 

Interestingly when asked about Peter Prodromou he mentioned that they've already recruited other aero specialists - 1 from Ferrari, another from RB and 1 from Lotus (but names no names)

 

Seems like I heard Bigois is leaving Ferrari & headed to McLaren. He's the Aerodynamicist who came from Mercedes and has only been with Ferrari a little over a year. Don't quote me on it being Bigois, but it seems that I heard this a couple weeks ago.

 

The addition of Prodromou to McLaren is like hitting the lottery. He's definitely going to help the team. Kudos to MaCa for getting him away from Newey.

[Lazy]

http://www.planetf1....s-and-burn-outs

 

"It hasn't been our best season, but next year I promise we will be winning races,"

 

Promises, promises Jenson

[Lights]

That's a bold statement he should know better to avoid.

[Lazy]

I'm hoping it's based on more than blind faith.

[ermo]

Very disappointing year, they shelve last years very fast car to develop something new that would give them better develop scope, but. I never saw much development?

 

Welcome to the thread. You're not the first to point this out, and you're not the first to be at least partially correct.  The development pace was reportedly feverish, but it appears that the team had a hard time actually getting to properly test the freshly developed parts, mostly due to poor weather in FPs in the early part of the season where they hadn't yet given up on the car, if I've understood things correctly. And to add insult to injury, the parts they did get to test rarely delivered the expected improvements.

 

But since every cloud has a silver lining, what McLaren (hopefully?) did gain by having an awful year is an insight into where its processes were failing and where there was scope for improvement.

 

In particular, I hope that the rumoured increase in alignment between the various groups at the factory and the various race engineering teams will result in a car which can be set up to be more compliant (important for mechanical grip and thus traction) while at the same time being relatively insensitive to both static and dynamic ride height changes.  In other words, a car which has a broader window of near peak aero performance, thus enabling a much wider range of useful setups.  This is particularly important for Jenson and his race engineering team as I understand it.

Edited by ermo, 30 November 2013 - 16:02.

[Exb]

So why are McLaren not taking part in the the tyre test in Dec for next years tyres when Merc, Red Bull and Ferrari are, surely this is going to give the others an advantage for next season.

https://twitter.com/...699340741484544

Edited by Exb, 30 November 2013 - 15:18.

[DanardiF1]

So why are McLaren not taking part in the the tyre test in Dec for next years tyres when Merc, Red Bull and Ferrari are, surely this is going to give the others an advantage for next season.

https://twitter.com/...699340741484544

 

They've already tested for Pirelli at Vallelunga with Kevin Magnussen.

[Exb]

They've already tested for Pirelli at Vallelunga with Kevin Magnussen.

Did it not rain for that test though? and the other 3 teams have also done other tests, Red Bull not that long ago with Ricciardo driving for them. Also did McLaren use their 2013 car? Not that I can imagine it would make that much difference as the cars will be so different next year but any advantage for the others is not good.

[DanardiF1]

Did it not rain for that test though? and the other 3 teams have also done other tests, Red Bull not that long ago with Ricciardo driving for them. Also did McLaren use their 2013 car? Not that I can imagine it would make that much difference as the cars will be so different next year but any advantage for the others is not good.

 

I don't think they did use a 2013 car, but I don't think that really matters if you're just working on tyre data and the car is a known quantity for the team. The pictures I saw (twitter pics) were of a dry track and possibly the 2011 car so I think they got some decent running in.

 

trackside video (from a mobile by the looks of it):

Edited by DanardiF1, 30 November 2013 - 15:53.

[mp4x]

http://www.fia.com/f...ulation-changes

 

•    Pirelli Tyre test – Bahrain, 17-19 December, 2013

 

The F1 Commission agreed to a change to the 2013 Sporting Regulations, on safety grounds, allowing the Formula One tyre supplier to carry out a three-day test in Bahrain from 17-19 December, 2013. All Formula One teams have been invited to take part in the test and six have accepted: Red Bull Racing, Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Force India and Toro Rosso.

It looks like McLaren are going to participate in the upcoming test.

[Exb]

This has made me happier, McLaren don't want to be giving any advantage (even if small) to Red Bull, Merc or Ferrari. 3 days testing with this years car is bound to give extra info to the teams that get to test. Also hopefully Kevin will get to drive - the more time he spends in an F1 car the better, even with the huge rule changes coming up any experience working with the team will be good.

[Wanderer]