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McLaren Mp4-28 Part II


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#51 tkulla

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:50

It was a great drive from Button, who was able to make a two-stopper work in very difficult circumstances.

I still wonder if the MP4-27 wouldn't have been more succesful in the fly-aways at least, and possibly would be more succesful over the whole season. Both drivers say the current car is unpredictable and doesn't inspire confidence.


Easy to see (literally) why they would feel that way - they must have very little control over the car when it's bouncing like that.

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#52 Wouter

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:50

Today the team was able to mask their performance by going on alternative tyre strategies but in Monaco, Spain and Hungary that won't be possible. On those circuits overtaking is difficult and qualifying more often dictate the finishing order. Mclaren must upp their qualifying performance if they wish to contend for any title this year.

The titles are gone already. That's between Red Bull, Ferrari, Lotus and maybe Mercedes. If the upgrades don't work really well real soon, then it's time to concentrate on the very important 2014 and write off 2013 as a failure.

Agreed that tracks like Monaco and Hungary will be brutal, not only due to the need of qualifying in front but also due to the bumps.




#53 Wouter

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:55

One thing we know for sure is that the primary suspension issue has yet to be dealt with - there were a couple of slow motion shots last night where you could see the 28 porpoising for quite a while. Hopefully there's a full-on fix for that scheduled for Spain. Frankly, I'm not sure how Button is dragging that thing into good points paying positions right now, but hopefully he will have a car that can fight for wins soon.

Button is a very smooth driver - I liked it that he was the 5th driver out of a 1-5 for WDC's in this race; with this kind of tyre controlling performance he righfully belongs in that class of drivers.

But the nature of the track must have helped - like Malaysia, it's not very bumpy compared to Australia (let alone Monaco) and that must help with the jumpy nature of the very stiffly sprung MP4/28.

#54 Dalton007

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 13:55

If the new parts work in Spain, then all is not lost. If they find form, they need to win races in a mini spell like Vettel did last season.

#55 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 15:18

Might've looked great during the race but due to his strategy Button was always going to appear to be more competitive than he actually was. Still a far way off the leaders at the finish, 5th is nice but Massa underperforming and Rosberg & Webber retiring kind of masked the situation.

Button drove a fine race. He did well holding off faster cars and executing his strategy as well as he could have.

#56 nosecone

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 16:26

Might've looked great during the race but due to his strategy Button was always going to appear to be more competitive than he actually was. Still a far way off the leaders at the finish, 5th is nice but Massa underperforming and Rosberg & Webber retiring kind of masked the situation.

All in all i agree. But Massa was outraced by Button in Malaysia too (until the pit stop of horror). But even unmasked there is a improvement becaus they would have finished 10th in Melbourne without Rosberg retiring. In Malaysia they were fighting for the podium (according to optimists/ Button) with Alonso, Force India retiring and the Renault... pardon Lotus struggling.
however: still could be worse.

Edited by nosecone, 14 April 2013 - 16:40.


#57 10e10

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 16:34

If the new parts work in Spain, then all is not lost. If they find form, they need to win races in a mini spell like Vettel did last season.


I hope they work better than the expected "raise in performance" in China.

#58 mclarensmps

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 16:55

Perez slipped back from 8th to 12th during his stint on the softs, if I remember correctly. It was the wrong strategy, but unfortunately, I can see why they did it.

#59 Fastcake

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 17:40

Very happy with Button's performance today, even if it was only for fifth it was a good strategy to bring in a healthy haul of points. I do think Button could of finished ahead of Webber and Rosberg
as well had they finished, which would of been a great achievement over superior cars.

But Andy, we do want a winning car soon mkay? :cat:

Perez slipped back from 8th to 12th during his stint on the softs, if I remember correctly. It was the wrong strategy, but unfortunately, I can see why they did it.


Well when you're starting 11th with a car that's equal to those around you, you might as well try it.

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#60 SunnyENTP

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 17:53

Perez slipped back from 8th to 12th during his stint on the softs, if I remember correctly. It was the wrong strategy, but unfortunately, I can see why they did it.



They used him as a geunie pig for Button to test the tyres. Perez is in for a painful experience. I can see him dropped in 2 years and never to driver again in F1.

#61 Peter Perfect

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 18:19

They used him as a geunie pig for Button to test the tyres. Perez is in for a painful experience. I can see him dropped in 2 years and never to driver again in F1.

It would certainly be worrying if they treated him like they did Kovalainen (certainly not McLarens proudest moment) but I have faith in Checo's ability. Like others have said, I think it's more that a combination of pressure and a rapidly changing car (every session seems to be used for experimentation instead of fine-tuning) have not given him the best environment to show his ability. Once they get a proper grip on the car and he's had more experience with working with the team (and equally they understand what he needs from the car) I think there's a good chance he'll give Button a run for his money.

#62 MirNyet

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 18:50

One thing we know for sure is that the primary suspension issue has yet to be dealt with - there were a couple of slow motion shots last night where you could see the 28 porpoising for quite a while. Hopefully there's a full-on fix for that scheduled for Spain. Frankly, I'm not sure how Button is dragging that thing into good points paying positions right now, but hopefully he will have a car that can fight for wins soon.


I would agree on the suspension - I still think that this is at the root of the problems with the car.

With regard to Button dragging good points out of the car - the simple answer is that he isn't. McLaren state that they are the fifth best team at the moment, which means they would be around 9th/10th come the checkered flag all things being equal. Button finished fifth not due to a good performance but rather because Webber and Rosberg didn't finish, Massa was shafted by his own team on pitstops, and Grosjean is phoning his races in this year. Circumstance rather than race performance got that result unfortunately - you cannot drive past the potential of the machinery. What is fair to say is that he is getting the best of the car and is bringing it home in one piece (at least on this occasion) which is more than can be said for the sister car.

#63 Mc_Silver

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 19:13

I would agree on the suspension - I still think that this is at the root of the problems with the car.

With regard to Button dragging good points out of the car - the simple answer is that he isn't. McLaren state that they are the fifth best team at the moment, which means they would be around 9th/10th come the checkered flag all things being equal. Button finished fifth not due to a good performance but rather because Webber and Rosberg didn't finish, Massa was shafted by his own team on pitstops, and Grosjean is phoning his races in this year. Circumstance rather than race performance got that result unfortunately - you cannot drive past the potential of the machinery. What is fair to say is that he is getting the best of the car and is bringing it home in one piece (at least on this occasion) which is more than can be said for the sister car.


I think button did even better job in Malaysia as well but pit stop issue ruined his race.

#64 Mc_Silver

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 19:15

It would certainly be worrying if they treated him like they did Kovalainen (certainly not McLarens proudest moment) but I have faith in Checo's ability. Like others have said, I think it's more that a combination of pressure and a rapidly changing car (every session seems to be used for experimentation instead of fine-tuning) have not given him the best environment to show his ability. Once they get a proper grip on the car and he's had more experience with working with the team (and equally they understand what he needs from the car) I think there's a good chance he'll give Button a run for his money.


Could not agree more. :up:

#65 Force Ten

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 19:24

With regard to Button dragging good points out of the car - the simple answer is that he isn't.

Sure. Button should have won both Malaysia and China and have been on the podium in Australia to have been doing something good in your eyes. No, scratch that. I am sure you would have found several ways to complain about HIS performance even then.

#66 Owen

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 19:37

Button drove a fine race. He did well holding off faster cars and executing his strategy as well as he could have.

Totally agree. Button got the most out of that car. Feels like thats as good as it gets for the 28 in its current guise.

Edited by Owen, 14 April 2013 - 19:38.


#67 MirNyet

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 20:16

Sure. Button should have won both Malaysia and China and have been on the podium in Australia to have been doing something good in your eyes. No, scratch that. I am sure you would have found several ways to complain about HIS performance even then.


Helps if you read the rest of the post you know instead of just selective comments :) Button is at the level of the car mixed with the circumstances of the race. At this point of the year he is doing his job of bringing the car home to bag points. While I will not celebrate a 5th in a McLaren, he drove a sensible race and brought the car home where it deserved to be. He is not dragging results out - for a car of a team which states its the 5th best right now with the way the race played out - he is where he should be. It is not that he over-performed, it is that Perez grossly under-performed as he should have been in 6th.



#68 WitnessX

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 20:28

They used him as a geunie pig for Button to test the tyres. Perez is in for a painful experience. I can see him dropped in 2 years and never to driver again in F1.

Really?

They did exactly the same at Australia, funny thing was that Button didn't need a guinea pig because he had already ran the options.

Also running at different fuel levels makes a difference, so it was irrelevant anyway and Button had already done test runs on the softs in the previous practice sessions (on his own set-up) so they had that information anyway.

#69 WitnessX

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 20:35

Button drove a fine race. He did well holding off faster cars and executing his strategy as well as he could have.

http://www.motorspor...z_13041445.html

Funny thing is that the post race analysis revealed that they had been too conservative with Buttons strategy (target lap times), they could have used the tyres harder.

#70 BillBald

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 23:30

http://www.motorspor...z_13041445.html

Funny thing is that the post race analysis revealed that they had been too conservative with Buttons strategy (target lap times), they could have used the tyres harder.


I'm not sure what that could mean.

Surely he would only have pitted when his tyres were pretty much finished. Are they saying that they would have lasted just as long if he'd been pushing harder? - that seems unlikely.



#71 BillBald

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 23:43

Totally agree. Button got the most out of that car. Feels like thats as good as it gets for the 28 in its current guise.


The car actually seemed a little better in Malaysia. I'm thinking that maybe it suited the circuit better.

I believe that one of the characteristics of the 28 at the moment is too much understeer. In China, with those tight turns which go on forever, and tend to wear out the front left, that would not be a good feature.

Having said that, I'm not sure that the car will be any better in Bahrain. :)



#72 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 01:14

Great job by Jenson, he finished ahead of one of the Ferrari's which were the fastest cars in Shanghai on Sunday.

#73 chumma

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:43

Giorgio Piola says the McLaren cannot be fixed unless they change the suspension, and also that a change for the suspension is coming.

Question...would reverting to a pushrod completely destroy the aero at the front of the car? Or is a revised pull rod more likely? I wonder if they're more likely to do revert to a pushrod and the challenge that may be faced by doing so with the current config of the car.

Id say the change is coming for Spain, so it will be an interesting and busy few weeks until then.

My wish? Go back to pushrod. What's likely to happen? Stick with pullrod with a dramatic change in the geometry ie. less 'harsh' on the angle of the suspension.

Armchair analysis: The angle is so steep that there is no movement in suspension and they are relying on the tyre to be the damper but they cannot control the tyre oscillation which is destroying the aero/preferred ride height.

Someone with more knowledge please give your thoughts.

#74 MikeMM

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:30

Giorgio Piola says the McLaren cannot be fixed unless they change the suspension, and also that a change for the suspension is coming.

Question...would reverting to a pushrod completely destroy the aero at the front of the car? Or is a revised pull rod more likely? I wonder if they're more likely to do revert to a pushrod and the challenge that may be faced by doing so with the current config of the car.

Id say the change is coming for Spain, so it will be an interesting and busy few weeks until then.

My wish? Go back to pushrod. What's likely to happen? Stick with pullrod with a dramatic change in the geometry ie. less 'harsh' on the angle of the suspension.

Armchair analysis: The angle is so steep that there is no movement in suspension and they are relying on the tyre to be the damper but they cannot control the tyre oscillation which is destroying the aero/preferred ride height.

Someone with more knowledge please give your thoughts.


Ferrari won with pullroad suspension.

#75 MikeMM

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:37

I’am disappointed a little. In Malaysia McLaren looked much faster than in China. I hoped that in these three weeks McLaren would have made bigger step forward and instead rival teams developed their cars faster.

#76 SunnyENTP

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:48

Really?

They did exactly the same at Australia, funny thing was that Button didn't need a guinea pig because he had already ran the options.

Also running at different fuel levels makes a difference, so it was irrelevant anyway and Button had already done test runs on the softs in the previous practice sessions (on his own set-up) so they had that information anyway.



The reason they put the Softs on Perez was to see how many laps the tyres would last so they can gauge it for Button. It makes no difference the level of fuels, that has already been confirmed by Pirelli. I dont know what they did in Australia, I am refering to why they brought Perez in for softs when he was a few seconds behind Button. They sacrificed his race there and then for the greater good of Button and not the team. I think they should have let both cars on the same strategy and there would have been more points for WCC.

#77 Lights

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:58

The reason they put the Softs on Perez was to see how many laps the tyres would last so they can gauge it for Button. It makes no difference the level of fuels, that has already been confirmed by Pirelli. I dont know what they did in Australia, I am refering to why they brought Perez in for softs when he was a few seconds behind Button. They sacrificed his race there and then for the greater good of Button and not the team. I think they should have let both cars on the same strategy and there would have been more points for WCC.

You mean, 20?

Where is your proof that they did that for this reason? Perhaps it was strategic for his own chances. Sergio struggles around cars, this strategy gave him a completely free air run on the mediums, crucial for a 2 stop strategy. Had they followed Jenson's strategy Sergio would've been in the thick of it with Grosjean/Ricciardo/Di Resta/Massa.

#78 MikeMM

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:59

The reason they put the Softs on Perez was to see how many laps the tyres would last so they can gauge it for Button. It makes no difference the level of fuels, that has already been confirmed by Pirelli. I dont know what they did in Australia, I am refering to why they brought Perez in for softs when he was a few seconds behind Button. They sacrificed his race there and then for the greater good of Button and not the team. I think they should have let both cars on the same strategy and there would have been more points for WCC.

Why then Sauber put softs for Hulkenberg? Or was he also testing tyres for Button?

I think that at that moment of the race it was difficult to say which strategy was better, so McLaren decided to use two different strategies in which case one would work for sure.

Edited by MikeMM, 15 April 2013 - 06:51.


#79 bogi

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:22

Jenson Button ‏@JensonButton 13m
Big thanks to everyone at the MTC for your determination and hard work to take us back to the front. #Staypositive #BelieveinMclaren


Jenson Button ‏@JensonButton 20m
Happy with P5 yesterday, always tricky when you're playing the long game to judge your speed through a 25lap stint!


Edited by bogi, 15 April 2013 - 06:23.


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#80 MirNyet

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:07

Giorgio Piola says the McLaren cannot be fixed unless they change the suspension, and also that a change for the suspension is coming.

Question...would reverting to a pushrod completely destroy the aero at the front of the car? Or is a revised pull rod more likely? I wonder if they're more likely to do revert to a pushrod and the challenge that may be faced by doing so with the current config of the car.

Id say the change is coming for Spain, so it will be an interesting and busy few weeks until then.

My wish? Go back to pushrod. What's likely to happen? Stick with pullrod with a dramatic change in the geometry ie. less 'harsh' on the angle of the suspension.

Armchair analysis: The angle is so steep that there is no movement in suspension and they are relying on the tyre to be the damper but they cannot control the tyre oscillation which is destroying the aero/preferred ride height.

Someone with more knowledge please give your thoughts.


Thought it was suspension from the off - just a feeling but just seemed obvious what the way the car worked at the first race and the noises coming from the team. Personally, I would prefer them to simply go back to pushrod as in the long term its a better and safer solution. This car smacks of the same sort of overly clever nonsense that drove them into a dead end in 2011, and in some ways in 1995 and 2004. For once it would be nice to see McLaren under Whitmarsh just be sensible and take their medicine and get on with the job. This is just another example of deeply flawed decision making at McLaren and its hard to see why heads haven't rolled for this.

#81 Peter Perfect

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:16

Thought it was suspension from the off - just a feeling but just seemed obvious what the way the car worked at the first race and the noises coming from the team. Personally, I would prefer them to simply go back to pushrod as in the long term its a better and safer solution. This car smacks of the same sort of overly clever nonsense that drove them into a dead end in 2011, and in some ways in 1995 and 2004. For once it would be nice to see McLaren under Whitmarsh just be sensible and take their medicine and get on with the job. This is just another example of deeply flawed decision making at McLaren and its hard to see why heads haven't rolled for this.

Well...the Technical Director responsible for the car has already gone...

#82 MirNyet

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:27

Well...the Technical Director responsible for the car has already gone...


Of his own accord though, and if reports are to be believed, he was already walking long before this car ever turned a wheel. Will be interesting to see what direction they take next year post Lowe.

#83 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:13

Of his own accord though, and if reports are to be believed, he was already walking long before this car ever turned a wheel. Will be interesting to see what direction they take next year post Lowe.

A car is usually being designed... a bit earlier than it first turns a wheel. About a year or so.

#84 slmk

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:17

A car is usually being designed... a bit earlier than it first turns a wheel. About a year or so.


McLaren thought the car would continue in the -27's race-winning footsteps until the Winter tests...

#85 MirNyet

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:47

A car is usually being designed... a bit earlier than it first turns a wheel. About a year or so.


The design process for a car (not to be confused with R&D on components etc) normally starts around April/May with the broad strokes of car, layout, big picture features etc. This is then locked in the summer and the design process as we would understand it continues until late in the winter. So, generally speaking, unless there is a major rule change, the design on the car starts about 9 months before it turns a wheel. This however wasn't the point I was making - it was that Lowe had decided to leave before the performance of the car was known, therefore his leaving is not directly connected to it - it may have oiled the wheels shall we say :) But it was not the root cause.



#86 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:15

Lowe had decided to leave before the performance of the car was known, therefore his leaving is not directly connected to it - it may have oiled the wheels shall we say :)

It could also have been transpired like this ;)

#87 bonjon1979a

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:22

Thought it was suspension from the off - just a feeling but just seemed obvious what the way the car worked at the first race and the noises coming from the team. Personally, I would prefer them to simply go back to pushrod as in the long term its a better and safer solution. This car smacks of the same sort of overly clever nonsense that drove them into a dead end in 2011, and in some ways in 1995 and 2004. For once it would be nice to see McLaren under Whitmarsh just be sensible and take their medicine and get on with the job. This is just another example of deeply flawed decision making at McLaren and its hard to see why heads haven't rolled for this.


This isn't going to happen by spain as it'll require a whole new tub design and build plus all aero will have to be reconfigured to suit. I'd be amazed if it happens at all let alone in six weeks time.

#88 Owen

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:39

This isn't going to happen by spain as it'll require a whole new tub design and build plus all aero will have to be reconfigured to suit. I'd be amazed if it happens at all let alone in six weeks time.

People seem to have a hang up about this push rod vs pull rod debate. :well:

From what I've read I don't believe the problems are centred solely around the fact that it's pull rod. I can't imagine they would be looking at changing this fundamental aspect of the car, just can't see it happening IMO. I'm not ruling out that there may be issues around the suspension geometry which will need a major rethink but continually stating that it's because they went 'pull rod' doesn't really cut it for me. My own (totally speculative) thoughts are that major upgrades for Spain will centre around the suspension (but keeping the pull rod layout).

The biggest concern is just how many points have been given away to rivals, the only consolation is that (so far) the points are being shared and distributed across different drivers and teams. But a championship challenge seems lost before it started. Hope progress is made needless to say. Getting a sense the Mac guys are really struggling, I hope b-i-g progress comes soon :)

#89 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:47

People seem to have a hang up about this push rod vs pull rod debate. :well:

To be honest (I suddenly sound like having a Michael Schumacher voice) I think the pushrod vs pullrod debate was mostly put to bed already after the Aus race. It has resurfaced probably now because some people didn't go (and fight) over it the last time around and the package they brought to China provided less of an improvement that was expected here.

#90 FastnLoud

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:57

Well...the Technical Director responsible for the car has already gone...



Tim designed this years car

#91 MirNyet

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:36

Tim designed this years car


Under the direction of the Technical Lead :)

#92 WitnessX

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:39

One thing we know for sure is that the primary suspension issue has yet to be dealt with - there were a couple of slow motion shots last night where you could see the 28 porpoising for quite a while. Hopefully there's a full-on fix for that scheduled for Spain. Frankly, I'm not sure how Button is dragging that thing into good points paying positions right now, but hopefully he will have a car that can fight for wins soon.

(Scarbs Theory!)
In the post Malaysia Peter Windsor "Racers Edge" video, Scarbs tends to think that the most significant problem is its sensitivity to ride height and pitch. It has a narrow ride height window (where it provides good downforce). This means they have to limit the the up/down travel. They would like to soften the suspension (and get better slower corner response) on the front, unfortunately the travel would take it out of its current operating window so they can't.

So they deliberately "nail" the front suspension, which works for most of the circuit , but when the front end encounters bumps the tyres act like balls bouncing up and down with little damping. Not only that, as it bounces the front floor feed keeps opening and shutting.

If the "narrow ride height" theory is actually true, the will have to revise the aero front part of the car to widen the ride height window, which means front wing, nose?, turning vanes, barge boards, floor, side pods etc. Once they have achieved that they can soften up the suspension.

#93 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:49

(Scarbs Theory!)
In the post Malaysia Peter Windsor "Racers Edge" video, Scarbs tends to think that the most significant problem is its sensitivity to ride height and pitch. It has a narrow ride height window (where it provides good downforce). This means they have to limit the the up/down travel. They would like to soften the suspension (and get better slower corner response) on the front, unfortunately the travel would take it out of its current operating window so they can't.

So they deliberately "nail" the front suspension, which works for most of the circuit , but when the front end encounters bumps the tyres act like balls bouncing up and down with little damping. Not only that, as it bounces the front floor feed keeps opening and shutting.

If the "narrow ride height" theory is actually true, the will have to revise the aero front part of the car to widen the ride height window, which means front wing, nose?, turning vanes, barge boards, floor, side pods etc. Once they have achieved that they can soften up the suspension.

It's not simply a narrow window. It's more interesting. Apparently the aerodynamics worked when the car was either too low or too high. It only stopped working when the car was in the "best" ride height. The car actually had a too high ride height in Malaysia.

#94 MirNyet

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:50

(Scarbs Theory!)
In the post Malaysia Peter Windsor "Racers Edge" video, Scarbs tends to think that the most significant problem is its sensitivity to ride height and pitch. It has a narrow ride height window (where it provides good downforce). This means they have to limit the the up/down travel. They would like to soften the suspension (and get better slower corner response) on the front, unfortunately the travel would take it out of its current operating window so they can't.

So they deliberately "nail" the front suspension, which works for most of the circuit , but when the front end encounters bumps the tyres act like balls bouncing up and down with little damping. Not only that, as it bounces the front floor feed keeps opening and shutting.

If the "narrow ride height" theory is actually true, the will have to revise the aero front part of the car to widen the ride height window, which means front wing, nose?, turning vanes, barge boards, floor, side pods etc. Once they have achieved that they can soften up the suspension.


A narrow ride height window surely means the diffuser is being overloaded? Would this mean the airflow going over the diffuser is limiting the amount which can be passed under it? That could be exhaust/coke bottle?

#95 FastnLoud

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 15:43

Radio after race

Dave "Ok Jenson Great job, P5, not quite what we were hoping for but still best result of the season for us"

Jenson " Yeh cheers guys, i don't agree with you at all Dave, i don't think would expect anything more really, we should be happy with 5th"

So maybe the team expected more from the race? I agree with Jenson that P5 was Max.

Skip to 25:00 on video for full conversation - http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be

Great effort by the team i think

#96 Fox1

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 19:15

Radio after race

Dave "Ok Jenson Great job, P5, not quite what we were hoping for but still best result of the season for us"

Jenson " Yeh cheers guys, i don't agree with you at all Dave, i don't think would expect anything more really, we should be happy with 5th"

So maybe the team expected more from the race? I agree with Jenson that P5 was Max.

Skip to 25:00 on video for full conversation - http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be

Great effort by the team i think

Just JB being quick to shoot down any notion that the car might be capable of delivering more than HE thinks it's capable of. I'm not convinced. The car is a departure from the 27, but not radical as some would like everyone to believe. I feel sorry for the guys and gals in McLaren's design office.

#97 trogggy

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 19:19

I'm not convinced.

Oh no. Say it ain't so. :cry:

#98 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 19:32

I feel sorry for the guys and gals in McLaren's design office.

Me too. So sad. If they only had a competent driver :(

#99 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 19:37

He may not be the best out there, but if you're trying to say a World Champion driver isn't even competent, you either aren't smart or you're trolling. Which one is it Force Ten?

Edited by Seanspeed, 15 April 2013 - 19:37.


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#100 Force Ten

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 19:41

He may not be the best out there, but if you're trying to say a World Champion driver isn't even competent, you either aren't smart or you're trolling. Which one is it Force Ten?

Dunno

Edit: you got it :)

Edited by Force Ten, 15 April 2013 - 19:53.