79 replies to this topic

[William Hunt]

In a F1 racing magazine, that I had bought for the 1st time today and which name I will not mention here, there were several interviews, including one with Giedo van der Garde.

One sentence really stood out for me and well... it surprised me.
He said: "I used to beat Sebastian Vettel when we were teammates and it's tough that people don't remember."

He is referring to 2006, when he drove for ASM in the Formula 3 Euroseries, as teammate to Sebastian Vettel and Paul Di Resta. Whilst Vettel and Di Resta were battling for the title (Di Resta winning that), Giedo was peddling in the midfield. He did have a couple of good races, won once at the Norisring, but overall he was 6th in the championship, far behind his younger teammates Vettel & Di Resta. I suppose he thinks that he was better than Vettel because he finished ahead of him in 2 or 3 races.

I found his statement pretty arrogant and can remember that last year, he said in the Dutch press something similar and that he would easily be winning races if he had a Red Bull.

It's especially arrogant if you consider how his 5 year younger teammate Charles Pic has been crushing him this season. In Shanghai Giedo had a great start, ahead of both Marussia and both Caterham's, but in no time they passed him with Pic finishing over a minute (1min7sec) ahead of the Giedo, who had no technical issues or accidents but lacked the pace.

[JeePee]

Vettel vs. Hamilton for P2. Who's in front?

vd Garde is not arrogant and said his only goal this year was to learn from Pic and come midway this season, beat him.

[Les]

Racing driver in superiority complex shocker.

[PurpleHam]

Vettel is overrated, massively, it's all Newey's fault...

[William Hunt]

@ JeePee: it's not because you are ahead of a driver in 2 or 3 races in a full season that you are better than him

[McLarenNo1]

Vettel vs. Hamilton for P2. Who's in front?

vd Garde is not arrogant and said his only goal this year was to learn from Pic and come midway this season, beat him.

Well Lewis did win that race and did quite well compared to Giedo with same amount of experience in F3 Euro Series - Link.

Giedo may have finished ahead of Sebastian in a few races but given his experience, he should have been dominating the series to make a name for himself or at least fighting for the championship. Quite consistent in points he scored in all three F3 Euro Series seasons he participated, but no real progression shown and beaten by his team mates comfortably in 2006 except for Kamui who came close in his rookie season and scored more points than Giedo ever did in his next season although Giedo was no longer then competing in the series.

I see it as a way of trying to big yourself up, I can understand why Paul might do it given he came out on top but Giedo who lost in championship by a big margin, seems quite strange thing for him to expect people to remember, as on a whole he lost more times than he won.

Edited by McLarenNo1, 16 April 2013 - 22:34.

[ryan86]

Lukas Rosol once beat Rafa Nadal.

I, one glorious year, went on a completely unexpected run to my school's badminton final.

Everyone can have their days, but only the best produce it week in and week out. GVDG isn't a complete washout, but there's a reason why Hamilton and Vettel have 4 world titles and he's just arrived.

[William Hunt]

Absolutely, I do remember Giedo getting beaten and getting mediocre results in F3. He was imho pretty good in GP2 though, even if he got beaten there by his teammates too (Perez, Pic).

[Snic]

Vettel vs. Hamilton for P2. Who's in front?

vd Garde is not arrogant and said his only goal this year was to learn from Pic and come midway this season, beat him.

Racing at its best. The overtake in the end lasted 5 corners! No bloody wonder Giedo won with a duel like that going on...

[Risil]

Good, I can't stand it when racers admit anyone's better than them.

[McLarenNo1]

Racing at its best. The overtake in the end lasted 5 corners! No bloody wonder Giedo won with a duel like that going on...

Do not underestimate Lewis, he won that race including nearly all the other races in that season.

[ebeneezer2]

It's not actually an arrogant boast, in terms of speed he was on the same level as Vettel and Di Resta - if you look at the qualifying stats, he was equal to them, if you look at the lap charts, he was often running near the front at the start of races but then abruptly drops down the order, which suggests it was either the odd costly mistake or bit of bad luck that cost him the points. Since I wasn't watching the races at the time, I don't know which it was, but in any case you can not reasonably describe his performance that year as 'peddling in the midfield'.

On the other hand, he hasn't looked that amazing looking at the rest of his pre-F1 career - either Vettel is better now than he was then, or VDG is better than he's been able to look in GP2, or Vettel is a good driver being made to look great by his cars. Don't know what the answer is, but my best guess is a mixture of the 3.

[jjcale]

Do any of SV's past or present team mates respect him?

Even the guy from Formula BMW or whatever its called cried favouritism ... and SV dominated that championship - according to the stats anyway.

[BigCHrome]

Just shows how little respect the paddock has for Vettel.

[Seanspeed]

People are really getting carried away with this Vettel hate train. He deserves some criticism for Malaysia, but he's still a proven top driver. No ordinary driver could beat Webber so convincingly four years in a row.

[lbennie]

Vettel vs. Hamilton for P2. Who's in front?

vd Garde is not arrogant and said his only goal this year was to learn from Pic and come midway this season, beat him.

Wow. Brilliant defensive driving by seb there.

[Sin]

they are still best friends, these pictures prove it... no not really just being silly here, but damn just because somebody says "Hey I beat that guy once or twice...", does not mean he does not respect him

[ebeneezer2]

People are really getting carried away with this Vettel hate train. He deserves some criticism for Malaysia, but he's still a proven top driver. No ordinary driver could beat Webber so convincingly four years in a row.

I agree that Vettel has convincingly beaten Webber, and that if you look at Webber's career pre-Vettel, you have to be pretty damn good to do that. But on the other hand, while he was better than Bourdais at STR, so was Buemi, by a fairly similar margin. Also, Sauber had Vettel as their test driver, apparently before Red Bull had a firm deal in place with him, tested him enough to see just how good he was, but opted for Heidfeld and Kubica instead. Add in the fact that his pre-f1 career was good but not amazing, I think we just have to be a bit careful before bracketing him with Hamilton/Alonso.

[Watkins74]

People are really getting carried away with this Vettel hate train. He deserves some criticism for Malaysia, but he's still a proven top driver. No ordinary driver could beat Webber so convincingly four years in a row.

We should all be as untalented and lucky as Vettel.

[fabr68]

Sounds like an idiotic excuse.

Webber has also beaten Vettel the World Champion on some ocassions, and he has one foot outside Red Bull.

Score a top 10 finish with Carteham and he won't need to rely on people's memory from 7 years ago.

[HP]

As many have found out, it's useless to compare different categories of racing. HHF was better than MSch in other series, but look what happened once they both were in F1.

IMO lower categories are good preparation, but in the highest classes, there comes the real test as everywhere in the real world. What really matters is can van der Garde raise the interest of top teams. Alonso for example was instantly recognized for his talent while driving a Minardi. Vettel was recognized because he won in a STR. van der Garde is being recognized what for in F1 so far? That is what he needs to focus on.

It's easy to be jealous of a seat in any of the top teams. It's difficult however to earn a seat in a top team.

[OvDrone]

Am I the only one who digs this dude?

[Sin]

Am I the only one who digs this dude?

I like him seems to be a funny dude, but he got his edges but oh well

[OO7]

People are really getting carried away with this Vettel hate train. He deserves some criticism for Malaysia, but he's still a proven top driver. No ordinary driver could beat Webber so convincingly four years in a row.

[halifaxf1fan]

In a F1 racing magazine, that I had bought for the 1st time today and which name I will not mention here, there were several interviews, including one with Giedo van der Garde.

One sentence really stood out for me and well... it surprised me.
He said: "I used to beat Sebastian Vettel when we were teammates and it's tough that people don't remember."

He is referring to 2006, when he drove for ASM in the Formula 3 Euroseries, as teammate to Sebastian Vettel and Paul Di Resta. Whilst Vettel and Di Resta were battling for the title (Di Resta winning that), Giedo was peddling in the midfield. He did have a couple of good races, won once at the Norisring, but overall he was 6th in the championship, far behind his younger teammates Vettel & Di Resta. I suppose he thinks that he was better than Vettel because he finished ahead of him in 2 or 3 races.

I found his statement pretty arrogant and can remember that last year, he said in the Dutch press something similar and that he would easily be winning races if he had a Red Bull.

It's especially arrogant if you consider how his 5 year younger teammate Charles Pic has been crushing him this season. In Shanghai Giedo had a great start, ahead of both Marussia and both Caterham's, but in no time they passed him with Pic finishing over a minute (1min7sec) ahead of the Giedo, who had no technical issues or accidents but lacked the pace.

There is no real issue or arrogance here with Guido remembering getting the upper hand and finishing ahead of his successful teammate, it is normal for a driver to compare himself in this way. Other drivers have done the same, I remember Hamilton talking up how he had beaten two time champion Alonso 7 times (out of 17 races) in 2007, he was just remembering some of his glory days which is OK.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 17 April 2013 - 01:51.

[ed24f1]

Just shows how little respect the paddock has for Vettel.

If he didn't have respect for him and thought it was an achievement to have beaten him, why would he mention it? If he had no respect and thought he was rubbish there was no point bringing it up was there.

[hijinx]

People are really getting carried away with this Vettel hate train. He deserves some criticism for Malaysia, but he's still a proven top driver. No ordinary driver could beat Webber so convincingly four years in a row.

[DKMoto]

I agree that Vettel has convincingly beaten Webber, and that if you look at Webber's career pre-Vettel, you have to be pretty damn good to do that. But on the other hand, while he was better than Bourdais at STR, so was Buemi, by a fairly similar margin. Also, Sauber had Vettel as their test driver, apparently before Red Bull had a firm deal in place with him, tested him enough to see just how good he was, but opted for Heidfeld and Kubica instead. Add in the fact that his pre-f1 career was good but not amazing, I think we just have to be a bit careful before bracketing him with Hamilton/Alonso.

You mean the guy who's been spoonfed into McLaren, never having to prove himself in a slow car? Having WDC rocketship since day 1? Who managed to barely win 1 WDC (against Massa, and barely won) in all his years with McLaren (while usually having one of fastest cars year in and year out).

Yea.... You should lay off the strong stuff

[bourbon]

Do any of SV's past or present team mates respect him?

Yes. You hardly brag about beating someone you consider a crap driver. What would be the point?

How many people are bragging that they beat Ide in the lower, mid, upper or well...any category or series?

[PorcupineTroy]

This reminds me of when my dad talks about scoring a hat trick against to-be NHL goalie Ron Hextall when he was 15-16. At least Giedo actually made it to the top level.

[packapoo]

For one so young, he has the old drivers 'the older I get the faster I was' off pat.

[seahawk]

Beating Vettel is not much to brag about.

[fatd]

Beating Vettel is not much to brag about.

Giedo doesn't seem to agree with you

[Claudius]

There is no real issue or arrogance here with Guido remembering getting the upper hand and finishing ahead of his successful teammate, it is normal for a driver to compare himself in this way. Other drivers have done the same, I remember Hamilton talking up how he had beaten two time champion Alonso 7 times (out of 17 races) in 2007, he was just remembering some of his glory days which is OK.

You missed the point completely, as usual when it comes to Hamilton.

Lewis did actually beat Alonso, leading him in points from the 3rd race onward. So he has something to brag about.
Nothing like VdG who apparently was nowhere near Vettel most of the time.

[DarthWillie]

On his day Giedo can be quite good, although he has not enough of those days. Furthermore he has a knack of getting involved in way too many clashes.

fact is, Giedo is older than Vettel, was in F3 at the same time in the best team, was in both the McLaren and Renault young driver programme, has one of the richest man of the Netherlands as his father in law and could only now buy his place in a backmarker team. Giedo is not considered good enough by the people in the know.

[Baddoer]

Vettel is gonna be fourth times WDC this year and VDG is gonna be booted before half end of the season. End of story.

[Roscoe]

Racing driver in superiority complex shocker.

Indeed, a lot of people getting angry about something so small. All racing drivers think they're the best, as they should. You're not going to do well turning up after convincing yourself you're rubbish . What's the fuss?

[schumimercamg]

I'm not particularly a fan of Vettel but anyone claiming he's anything other than one of the truly best drivers in the world (across any race series) has no business claiming they know anything about f1 or motorsport in general.

[William Hunt]

I agree with you Schumimercamg but this thread was in the first place about VD Garde, not about either bashing or praising Vettel

[Amphicar]

I don't think van der Garde's comments show that he is arrogant - I think the more appropriate word is deluded. In the F3 Euro Series season he was referring to (2006), in the 15 races where they both finished, van der Garde was ahead of Vettel three times but Vettel finished ahead of van der Garde 12 times. Not really surprising that "people don't remember that he used to beat Vettel" is it - most of the time Vettel used to beat him.

[SpaMaster]

One of those persons living in La La land. We used to have many people saying how di Resta used to beat Vettel and how he would be better than Vettel when he comes to F1. We have seen what's happened. van der Garde comparison is not even close. People would start laughing at him if starts talking like this with a live audience.

[IamFasterthanU]

Well he's obviously very stupid but he was the Karting world champion in 2002 so he isn't that bad..may be suffering from too much Karting like Luizzi, Pantano etc.

[ray b]

I agree that Vettel has convincingly beaten Webber, and that if you look at Webber's career pre-Vettel, you have to be pretty damn good to do that. But on the other hand, while he was better than Bourdais at STR, so was Buemi, by a fairly similar margin. Also, Sauber had Vettel as their test driver, apparently before Red Bull had a firm deal in place with him, tested him enough to see just how good he was, but opted for Heidfeld and Kubica instead. Add in the fact that his pre-f1 career was good but not amazing, I think we just have to be a bit careful before bracketing him with Hamilton/Alonso.

I would not down rate a 3 time WDC to the level of fred and ham
esp as he has beaten them 3 times in the last 3 years now
fred's two WDC came before vettel got a F-1 ride
as did ham's single

and the renault with the trick mass damper was as trick as newie's recent red bulls are
even truely could win with a mass damper renault

both are clear leaders and can win
but not 3 time champs in a row YET
clearly vettel is at another level

[ReWind]

Giedo van der Garde has a point if he only reflects at the grid positions in the 2006 F3 season.

There were 10 Euroseries events plus the Zandvoort Masters.

Between the four ASM team-mates the qualifyings went like this:
Vettel lost to di Resta 1:10
Vettel lost to van der Garde 4:7
Vettel beat Kobayashi 9:2
di Resta beat van der Garde 7:4
di Resta beat Kobayashi 11:0
van der Garde beat Kobayashi 10:1

[kosmic33]

Well he's obviously very stupid but he was the Karting world champion in 2002 so he isn't that bad..may be suffering from too much Karting like Luizzi, Pantano etc.

And Hamilton and Schumacher and Rosberg and Alonso and Raikonnen and Kubica......

I never knew karting was a disease!

[bourbon]

I would not down rate a 3 time WDC to the level of fred and ham
esp as he has beaten them 3 times in the last 3 years now
fred's two WDC came before vettel got a F-1 ride
as did ham's single

and the renault with the trick mass damper was as trick as newie's recent red bulls are
even truely could win with a mass damper renault

both are clear leaders and can win
but not 3 time champs in a row YET
clearly vettel is at another level

This is true. Vettel was in an STRF during Hammy's go though - although it was not competitive with the top cars.

Vettel has always looked like a little gunner - even in the lower formulas. Others did too - I'm sure most remember Hammy, guns a blazing. Some make it in F1, some don't, but you can't really blame Giedo for believing his is among the "some do" crowd - all drivers should think that way or not bother with F1 - albeit the truth may be just the opposite.

[gillesthegenius]

Giedo van der Garde has a point if he only reflects at the grid positions in the 2006 F3 season.

There were 10 Euroseries events plus the Zandvoort Masters.

Between the four ASM team-mates the qualifyings went like this:
Vettel lost to di Resta 1:10
Vettel lost to van der Garde 4:7
Vettel beat Kobayashi 9:2
di Resta beat van der Garde 7:4
di Resta beat Kobayashi 11:0
van der Garde beat Kobayashi 10:1

Interesting how the worst two of that lot made it the biggest in f1. But anomalies like this are nothing new to f1 as Martin Brundell would attest to. According to how he fought with Senna in British f3, he should be hailed as an absolute racing legend. But unfortunately for him his f1 career just didn't pan out as well he probably would have liked. Similarly cases can be made for HHF and Wendlinger too.

[Sakae]

One of those persons living in La La land. We used to have many people saying how di Resta used to beat Vettel and how he would be better than Vettel when he comes to F1. We have seen what's happened. van der Garde comparison is not even close. People would start laughing at him if starts talking like this with a live audience.

As much as I do agree with sentiment expressed in your post, you will find people in here (I do not wish to use any names), but to pick one, who is probably quite an intelligent person outside of this forum, yet he claimed repeatedly just not too long ago, that Vettel will never rank as "all time great" due to some losses in his pre-F1 racing career; then in the same sentence he elevated Hamilton on path to all time great for inverse reasons.

Such reasoning begs a question what Hamilton has really achieved in F1, considering all toys and care he enjoyed thus far, and answers aren't very pretty, which leads me to dual belief that fan loyalty is not always based on rational thought, and drivers sometimes say weirdest things which they might even regret later on when they realize how foolish it was.

As someone once said, potential is an opportunity, and it matters less that you have it, and matters more, what you have done with it. Vettel, as it appears, grabbed the opportunity afforded to him, and is doing not too badly, while still advancing, der Garde - not so much, and someone could tell him when he matches Vettel, than we can talk again how good he is. For now he is just dreaming.

[oldracer1957]

This is true. Vettel was in an STRF during Hammy's go though - although it was not competitive with the top cars.

Vettel has always looked like a little gunner - even in the lower formulas. Others did too - I'm sure most remember Hammy, guns a blazing. Some make it in F1, some don't, but you can't really blame Giedo for believing his is among the "some do" crowd - all drivers should think that way or not bother with F1 - albeit the truth may be just the opposite.

The STRF was an Adrian Newey designed Torro Rosso painted Red Bull with Ferrari engine. As a matter of fact, I was surprised the drivers only won one race with that car. Puts things into perspective.

[Sakae]

The STRF was an Adrian Newey designed Torro Rosso painted Red Bull with Ferrari engine. As a matter of fact, I was surprised the drivers only won one race with that car. Puts things into perspective.

Point taken, but that's not a whole story, is it?
Hamilton drove several years in all-mighty McLaren, and won only one WDC, one can say...