Bahrain -season opener + pre season testing from 2014
#1
Posted 19 April 2013 - 13:54
I have no problem with the race date, and have no wish to open the debate on whether F1 should even be racing there......but testing? No.
It's not an issue for 2014 as they are already talking about an extra tests for the turbo engines, but from 2015, a test in Bahrain would be at the expense of one of the European tests.
Is this another example of Bernie taking he sport even further out of he reach of European fans?
I used to regularly attend the British GP in the 80's and 90's but the ever increasing prices and less and less time on track drove me away. Since 2007 I have attended tests every year in both Portugal and Spain where for the price of a weekend ticket at Silverstone, I can have a week's holiday in Spain and go to the track for a few days where the cars are on track all day, there is still a great atmosphere and a great view from anywhere on the circuit.
So Bernie, keep the tests in Europe, go back to four tests and include Portugal as a venue - fantastic track with great viewing for the fans.
Remember, without he fans, there is no sport - and no sport means no more money for Bernie.
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#2
Posted 19 April 2013 - 14:03
#3
Posted 19 April 2013 - 14:20
I guess it will give them a chance to change the moan to - it is too dusty to get the tyres to work and they are getting destroyed because of it.Why not to testing? This year the teams moaned non-stop how it was too cold and the tyres were getting destroyed because of that. Nothing wrong with having a test in Bahrain.
#4
Posted 19 April 2013 - 14:24
Not exactly easy to get to and too expensive for the fans - even if the authorities let them in the country.Why not to testing? This year the teams moaned non-stop how it was too cold and the tyres were getting destroyed because of that. Nothing wrong with having a test in Bahrain.
My point is that in Barcelona you can get a testing day ticket for €20 and its probably one of the easiest places to get to from anywhere in Europe. That would not be the case in Bahrain.
Also Barcelona gets thousands of spectators (even when it's cold) who would not necessarily get another opportunity to see the cars and drivers in action. And don't forget that is a fair amount of income for a circuit that, by its own admission, needs the cash.
#5
Posted 19 April 2013 - 14:39
I guess it will give them a chance to change the moan to - it is too dusty to get the tyres to work and they are getting destroyed because of it.
Indeed. and the last time they tested in Bahrain in 2009 there was a sandstorm.
#6
Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:00
#7
Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:02
tbh such hotty track would be good for testing due to fact that they cant atm test performance of the car in the hot, only predict it.
I really hope it doesn't become the season opener again it is such a dull track. Australia has such a great atmosphere and throws in great races to start the season, unfortunately Bahrain just doesn't .
#8
Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:03
Not exactly easy to get to and too expensive for the fans - even if the authorities let them in the country.
The teams would be sending their equipment for the race anyway, so no extra work for them.
But it could mean that the race is processional as everyone would have their car dialed into the circuit by race time.
Perhaps the organisers would cover the costs and have free access for testing to promote the race locally, and try to appease the populace?
#9
Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:20
#10
Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:26
I agree with this reason. But I don't agree with 'Oh no, I don't want to lose my European share' kind of thinking. There are other places like Japan or Australia which would have a fair bit of attendance for testing. If we have one of those places close-by, there is nothing wrong in going out of Europe.Not exactly easy to get to and too expensive for the fans - even if the authorities let them in the country.
My point is that in Barcelona you can get a testing day ticket for €20 and its probably one of the easiest places to get to from anywhere in Europe. That would not be the case in Bahrain.
Also Barcelona gets thousands of spectators (even when it's cold) who would not necessarily get another opportunity to see the cars and drivers in action. And don't forget that is a fair amount of income for a circuit that, by its own admission, needs the cash.
#11
Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:53
I think they should push for some European rounds to have a free track day on the thursdays of a GP week. Since a full fledged test week seems dead, dusted and over; give them a day at a few tracks so they can better develop their cars and give the drivers more track time. And it could have some specially priced tickets to help build interest on the GP itself.
#12
Posted 19 April 2013 - 16:03
#13
Posted 19 April 2013 - 16:05
The teams would be sending their equipment for the race anyway, so no extra work for them.
But it could mean that the race is processional as everyone would have their car dialed into the circuit by race time.
Perhaps the organisers would cover the costs and have free access for testing to promote the race locally, and try to appease the populace?
Your assuming they would leave it all there for a few weeks, which I doubt they would do.
#14
Posted 19 April 2013 - 16:17
Absolutely.I really don't mind it. But I've never been to testing.
I think they should push for some European rounds to have a free track day on the thursdays of a GP week. Since a full fledged test week seems dead, dusted and over; give them a day at a few tracks so they can better develop their cars and give the drivers more track time. And it could have some specially priced tickets to help build interest on the GP itself.
Not that long ago that there was a "tyre test" a few weeks before the Spanish, British and Italian GPs which was great for anyone unable to get to a 'proper' GP.....but the cars were so well set up that the race at those tracks tended to be a bit processional.
Proves that you can't have it all your own way.
There is an alternative, though. Have a few tests, rookie drivers only if necessary, prior to selected GPs but hold them at a different track so the race itself isn't affected but the teams can still get useful data. Available tracks to choose from could be Portimao, Paul Ricard, Mugello, Istanbul, Brands Hatch
If it was up to me I'd have three pre-season tests in Portimao, Jerez and Barcelona plus two in-season tests at Paul Ricard Brands Hatch.
As the teams are Europe based, it makes sense to test 'locally" for economic reasons.
The other thing to remember is that when unlimited testing was banned, it was argued that teams would use the two practice days as test sessions - but the tyre situation means the teams limit the time on track so in my opinion that hasn't worked as intended. Release more tyres to the teams so that the paying public get to see what they pay to see - cars on track.
Bring back value for money for the fans.
#15
Posted 19 April 2013 - 16:24
Absolutely.
Not that long ago that there was a "tyre test" a few weeks before the Spanish, British and Italian GPs which was great for anyone unable to get to a 'proper' GP.....but the cars were so well set up that the race at those tracks tended to be a bit processional.
Proves that you can't have it all your own way.
There is an alternative, though. Have a few tests, rookie drivers only if necessary, prior to selected GPs but hold them at a different track so the race itself isn't affected but the teams can still get useful data. Available tracks to choose from could be Portimao, Paul Ricard, Mugello, Istanbul, Brands Hatch
If it was up to me I'd have three pre-season tests in Portimao, Jerez and Barcelona plus two in-season tests at Paul Ricard Brands Hatch.
As the teams are Europe based, it makes sense to test 'locally" for economic reasons.
The other thing to remember is that when unlimited testing was banned, it was argued that teams would use the two practice days as test sessions - but the tyre situation means the teams limit the time on track so in my opinion that hasn't worked as intended. Release more tyres to the teams so that the paying public get to see what they pay to see - cars on track.
Bring back value for money for the fans.
The other solution is to allow a limited number of tests after a GP. That has to be a cheaper solution as all the kit etc. is already there, and it won't impact on the GP itself.
Fully agree with giving them more tyres. That for me is the biggest issue surrounding the tyres at the moment. There simply are not enough sets to encourage the teams to hit the track. nothing worse than attending the GP and then the teams barely bother to come out and play.
#16
Posted 19 April 2013 - 17:51
And that is why testing is better value for money, cars on track all day, freedom to roam and as a photographer access to plenty of places for good pictures.The other solution is to allow a limited number of tests after a GP. That has to be a cheaper solution as all the kit etc. is already there, and it won't impact on the GP itself.
Fully agree with giving them more tyres. That for me is the biggest issue surrounding the tyres at the moment. There simply are not enough sets to encourage the teams to hit the track. nothing worse than attending the GP and then the teams barely bother to come out and play.
Take a current Saturday, P3 one hour, Q1 20 mins (2 runs), Q2 15 mins minus 6 cars, Q3 10 mins only 10 cars of which 3 stay in the garage and 2 do 'installation' laps. And how much did that cost the average fan attending in person?
#17
Posted 19 April 2013 - 17:55
And that is why testing is better value for money, cars on track all day, freedom to roam and as a photographer access to plenty of places for good pictures.
Take a current Saturday, P3 one hour, Q1 20 mins (2 runs), Q2 15 mins minus 6 cars, Q3 10 mins only 10 cars of which 3 stay in the garage and 2 do 'installation' laps. And how much did that cost the average fan attending in person?
Testing always was better value track time wise, but if you want to see cars battling then you have to watch the race.
#18
Posted 19 April 2013 - 18:55
Range of 0 - 20000 km/team on EU soil would be just fine with me. (Jan 5 to the end of Feb).
Coming back to Bahrain - I have absolutely nothing against Bahrain, but what puzzles me, how one squares push for savings from lips of one Mr. Ecclestone, and then in turn he promises to consider this request..? I guess CVC shall gladly pay too for all team's time and transportation cost such as hauling equipment and people over distances, maybe even fly-in some late spare parts via chartered planes. Isn't that a splendid idea?
#19
Posted 19 April 2013 - 19:06
There are numerous reasons, discussed ad infinitum for past several years, why this doesn't make any sense. In fact whilst it sounds like a solution, at the end net outcome are added expenses, tired resources, incomplete and high risk of inconclusive testing results, resulting imbalances among teams who tested something, and those who felt into some random downtime; just one big ball of mess. No sensible TP should accept Monday drives for anything other than maybe training of reserve drivers, but even for that this is too expensive. (Let reserve drivers to run in pre-season some millage, share work-load, and then at least one full third FP on Fridays).The other solution is to allow a limited number of tests after a GP. That has to be a cheaper solution as all the kit etc. is already there, and it won't impact on the GP itself.
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#20
Posted 19 April 2013 - 20:13
#21
Posted 23 April 2013 - 20:44
Edited by Sakae, 23 April 2013 - 20:44.
#22
Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:10
They should've just made Melbourne start in the morning. 10am local start would've been 11pm in Europe.It's bad enough Australia being a twilight race (local time) and about 6am start UK time. For me the season always started with Australia with a 2-3am race start time (whichever one of the 2 it was). Anything other than that just seems.........wrong.
#23
Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:20
There are numerous reasons, discussed ad infinitum for past several years, why this doesn't make any sense. In fact whilst it sounds like a solution, at the end net outcome are added expenses, tired resources, incomplete and high risk of inconclusive testing results, resulting imbalances among teams who tested something, and those who felt into some random downtime; just one big ball of mess. No sensible TP should accept Monday drives for anything other than maybe training of reserve drivers, but even for that this is too expensive. (Let reserve drivers to run in pre-season some millage, share work-load, and then at least one full third FP on Fridays).
Every scenario has it's good or bad points.
Testing comes at a price, but it is cheaper to run after a GP as the kit is already there. So what if the testing is incomplete or inconclusive? Much better to find that out then rather than on the Friday\Saturday of the race weekend when your update doesn't bring the expected results. With limited testing no race driver really wants to give up any track time to the test driver as that can impact on their own performance, especially on a race weekend.
#24
Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:22
They should've just made Melbourne start in the morning. 10am local start would've been 11pm in Europe.
They should have just left the times alone.
#25
Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:42
#26
Posted 24 April 2013 - 13:02
...to a third-world country where women aren't even treated equally, no fan presence at the track, no atmosphere, terrible races, no atmosphere, and where you know the army are present just to ensure no-one so much as raises their voice in protest.
Yep. Makes perfect sense.
#27
Posted 24 April 2013 - 13:25
*scowls* So Bernie wants to take the season opener from a place with a wonderful atmosphere, great racing, quality facilities, great excitement, huge fan presence, great weather (most of the time), where safety and security only exist to make sure fans aren't bringing in cameras that are too big and that the unwashed don't get into the paddock (they failed this year but that's an inside story )....
...to a third-world country where women aren't even treated equally, no fan presence at the track, no atmosphere, terrible races, no atmosphere, and where you know the army are present just to ensure no-one so much as raises their voice in protest.
Yep. Makes perfect sense.
$$$$$$ Makes sence to his bank account. Sadly that's all he cares about. Bahrain opening next year will suck.
#28
Posted 24 April 2013 - 13:31
#29
Posted 24 April 2013 - 13:57
They should've just made Melbourne start in the morning. 10am local start would've been 11pm in Europe.
I was thinking that ever since watching the Australian qualifying at midnight. It'll be much better having the race on late night European time, instead of early morning.
Every scenario has it's good or bad points.
Testing comes at a price, but it is cheaper to run after a GP as the kit is already there. So what if the testing is incomplete or inconclusive? Much better to find that out then rather than on the Friday\Saturday of the race weekend when your update doesn't bring the expected results. With limited testing no race driver really wants to give up any track time to the test driver as that can impact on their own performance, especially on a race weekend.
On a Monday though, what is there to test? The teams are able to evaluate new parts mightily quick on a Friday nowadays, thanks in part I presume to much better simulation technology. They wouldn't of had time by Monday to evaluate all the data from the weekend and try and work out specific areas to work on, neither would there be any updates to ready to test. It's certainly an opinion I've heard from several technical staff mention before, that Monday testing wouldn't be that valuable.
#30
Posted 24 April 2013 - 14:00
I was thinking that ever since watching the Australian qualifying at midnight. It'll be much better having the race on late night European time, instead of early morning.
On a Monday though, what is there to test? The teams are able to evaluate new parts mightily quick on a Friday nowadays, thanks in part I presume to much better simulation technology. They wouldn't of had time by Monday to evaluate all the data from the weekend and try and work out specific areas to work on, neither would there be any updates to ready to test. It's certainly an opinion I've heard from several technical staff mention before, that Monday testing wouldn't be that valuable.
There are still components to be tested for future races that would then allow them to concentrate more on the race in hand.
#31
Posted 24 April 2013 - 14:09
#32
Posted 24 April 2013 - 15:57
I was thinking that ever since watching the Australian qualifying at midnight. It'll be much better having the race on late night European time, instead of early morning.
Good old Bernard, like most people his age, probably sees more sense in people waking up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday than staying up late on a Saturday.
#33
Posted 24 April 2013 - 16:17
Good old Bernard, like most people his age, probably sees more sense in people waking up at the crack of dawn on a Sunday than staying up late on a Saturday.
A proper season start is 04:00, maybe 05:00.
#34
Posted 24 April 2013 - 16:25
testing somewhere hot makes sense. and all the current tests are in spain ffs, so if one goes away you only have 3 opportunities for a holiday in spain with testing.
#35
Posted 24 April 2013 - 19:32
With limited resources, on limited time-line, testing segment is very specific in its definitiveness of purpose. The test day after a race at distant, and secluded locations carries far more risk IMO that it might turn in huge waste or resources, and to no benefits for a team at all. Moreover, people are taking Aug off to recharge batteries, for they are exhausted by then. Now, we will ignore all of that, and make them work even longer weekends? I am not sure that I follow this.Every scenario has it's good or bad points.
Testing comes at a price, but it is cheaper to run after a GP as the kit is already there. So what if the testing is incomplete or inconclusive? Much better to find that out then rather than on the Friday\Saturday of the race weekend when your update doesn't bring the expected results. With limited testing no race driver really wants to give up any track time to the test driver as that can impact on their own performance, especially on a race weekend.
#36
Posted 24 April 2013 - 19:43
With limited resources, on limited time-line, testing segment is very specific in its definitiveness of purpose. The test day after a race at distant, and secluded locations carries far more risk IMO that it might turn in huge waste or resources, and to no benefits for a team at all. Moreover, people are taking Aug off to recharge batteries, for they are exhausted by then. Now, we will ignore all of that, and make them work even longer weekends? I am not sure that I follow this.
I wasn't talking about having a test after every race. There would be a limited number and I would see them happening at European venues. Selfishly I would want one of them to be at Silverstone. IMO it could be of benefit to the teams and 3 or 4 extra days over the season isn't going to be a big deal.
#37
Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:25
*scowls* So Bernie wants to take the season opener from a place with a wonderful atmosphere, great racing, quality facilities, great excitement, huge fan presence, great weather (most of the time), where safety and security only exist to make sure fans aren't bringing in cameras that are too big and that the unwashed don't get into the paddock (they failed this year but that's an inside story )....
.
Yep. Makes perfect sense.
Does it really matter about the season opener? I mean we all watch it anyway. It is not like Australia is getting the axe as well in 2014. To me I don't care even if the start of the season was in Azerbaijan or Buenos Aires, I'll still watch it.
#38
Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:53
With limited resources, on limited time-line, testing segment is very specific in its definitiveness of purpose. The test day after a race at distant, and secluded locations carries far more risk IMO that it might turn in huge waste or resources, and to no benefits for a team at all. Moreover, people are taking Aug off to recharge batteries, for they are exhausted by then. Now, we will ignore all of that, and make them work even longer weekends? I am not sure that I follow this.
MotoGP have been doing this for awhile, and as said it wouldnt have to be after every race.
You obviously wouldnt do it at any race track where the next round is the following week. So far this year already though theres been a 3 week gap between Malaysia and China, and Bahrain and Barcelona.
#39
Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:12
Bring testing back… sims aren’t cutting it
Four teams are for it...
Judging by McLaren’s current form this year, perhaps their simulator program isn’t working either.
Couldn't agree more! Savings of this kind were introduced by a lawyer, not an engineer - false economy safeguard in total picture.
Edited by Sakae, 08 May 2013 - 07:13.