17 replies to this topic

[Dunc]

With explicit team orders and driver hierarchy once again a talking point, I thought it would be worth asking what makes a good second driver? Personally, I see McLaren-era Berger as the archetype; quick, reliable, personable, capable of winning but able to accept, he's not the very best. What do others think?

[ApexOversteer]

Riccardo Patrese, Felipe Massa, Rubens Barrichello etc..

[Grundle]

Takes about 5 minutes, and you feel much lighter afterwards

[Jackmancer]

David Coulthard as well. Oh, and Stirling Moss. And probably Irvine.

Webber might be the worst number two drivers. Good driver, but a sour number two.

[SunnyENTP]

Kimi @ RB 2014

[SpaMaster]

Webber. Horner is a great team principal in managing him, in that he has always kept him interested to the degree that Webber always gives his best. Clearly declared no.2 suffer too much confidence blow to be of as much help.

[garoidb]

With explicit team orders and driver hierarchy once again a talking point, I thought it would be worth asking what makes a good second driver? Personally, I see McLaren-era Berger as the archetype; quick, reliable, personable, capable of winning but able to accept, he's not the very best. What do others think?

Riccardo Patrese, Felipe Massa, Rubens Barrichello etc..

I don't think Felipe accepts anything like that, to be honest.

[tjkoyen]

Takes about 5 minutes, and you feel much lighter afterwards

You won the at the internet today.

[Clatter]

I don't think Felipe accepts anything like that, to be honest.

Maybe not, but he is so subservient he might just as well accept it.

I'll put Eddie Irvine up as the absolutely perfect lapdog.

[garoidb]

Maybe not, but he is so subservient he might just as well accept it.

He also seems not to be capable of winning, as mentioned in the OP, or taking many points off the championship rivals either.

I'll put Eddie Irvine up as the absolutely perfect lapdog.

Maybe, but not quite up there with Berger IMO.

[jimjimjeroo]

Kimi to RB would be the stoooopidest thing he could ever do

[Afterburner]

I hear MS was fairly good at playing wingman on his return at the end of 1999.

[kismet]

Someone really good who isn't a complete head case. Basically, the kind of guy who'd be your ideal #1 driver as well.

[garoidb]

Has the brief era in which team orders were banned changed driver expectations in terms of receiving equal or near-equal treatment from a team? Being number 2 is now considered failure, whereas in the past it could be seen as an apprenticeship (e.g. Cevert and Stewart). It seems to me that, whereas equality of opportunity at the start of the season is reasonable in some cases, in others it is not.

For a current example, should Perez have equality with Button? Or Grosejan with Kimi?

[Garagiste]

I think it still can be regarded as an opportunity, it's just that there's a danger of being typecast.
Irvine went from #2 to a clear #1 @ Jaguar, but couldn't do much with it because their cars were dreadful - funny to think it's the same outfit that are now cleaning up.
Your ideal #2 also needs to able to step in and take the victory if the leader slips up, Herbert springs to mind as a good example.

[RealRacing]

Irvine was a pretty good example, wasn't he? At times it seemed he was in F1 more for other factors and he enjoyed these more than racing itself. He gave the impression that he did not mind a lot if he didn't win. On the other hand, not much in the way of results can be expected if things are like this. I still think the best compromise in order to keep competitiveness alive and fans and drivers happy would be to only impose TOs after one of them is out of the WDC: no confusion, no resentments, no angry fans. So the perfect No. 2 does not exist... and he shouldn't.

[garoidb]

Irvine was a pretty good example, wasn't he? At times it seemed he was in F1 more for other factors and he enjoyed these more than racing itself. He gave the impression that he did not mind a lot if he didn't win. On the other hand, not much in the way of results can be expected if things are like this.

It got to Rubens a bit more, didn't it.

[Dunc]

Takes about 5 minutes, and you feel much lighter afterwards

Have to admit, I chose the title deliberately to see how long it would take someone to make that joke.