85 replies to this topic

[V3TT3L]

Ferrari is using a flexy floor in the Coke Bottle zone

In FP2 the car was showed in a high def slow motion when riding the kerbs and the floor was flexing like jelly.
GIF welcome

http://www.formula1....s/8695/fia.html

3.12 Bodywork facing the ground:
3.12.5 All parts lying on the reference and step planes, in addition to the transition between the two planes, must produce uniform, solid, hard, continuous, rigid (no degree of freedom in relation to the body/chassis unit), impervious surfaces under all circumstances.
Forward of a line 450mm forward of the rear face of the cockpit entry template, fully enclosed holes are permitted in the surfaces lying on the reference and step planes provided no part of the car is visible through them when viewed from directly below. This does not apply to any parts of rear view mirrors which are visible, provided each of these areas does not exceed 12000mm² when projected to a horizontal plane above the car, or to any parts of the panels referred to in Article 15.4.7.
3.12.6 To help overcome any possible manufacturing problems, and not to permit any design which may contravene any part of these regulations, dimensional tolerances are permitted on bodywork situated between a point lying 330mm behind the front wheel centre line and the rear wheel centre line. A vertical tolerance of +/- 3mm is permissible across the surfaces lying on the reference and step planes and a horizontal tolerance of 3mm is permitted when assessing whether a surface is visible from beneath the car.
Additionally, any bodywork in this area must produce uniform, solid, hard, continuous, rigid (no degree of freedom in relation to the body/chassis unit), impervious surfaces under all circumstances).

3.15 Aerodynamic influence:
With the exception of the driver adjustable bodywork described in Article 3.18 (in addition to minimal parts solely associated with its actuation) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance :
- Must comply with the rules relating to bodywork.
- Must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom).
- Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.
Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances.
No part having an aerodynamic influence and no part of the bodywork, with the exception of the skid block in 3.13 above, may under any circumstances be located below the reference plane.


Ellements might be raising the plane to allow rake and form a wing shapped floor.


The floor is thin and the surface very extended to provide a big potential of downforce.

Edited by V3TT3L, 19 April 2013 - 20:47.

[Ravenak]

You mean like Red Bull's flexy nose?

If every test was passed, then it's not illegal.

[Seanspeed]

This isn't the first time you've tried to accuse Ferrari of doing something illegal, either.

[Afterburner]

If they passed scrutineering, they're legal--what's the problem?

[Sausage]

This is not how you contact Charlie Whiting.

[fabr68]

OMG

The Ferrari car flexes like a Red Bull.

ban them

[Grundle]

Its no surprise the two fastest cars have tricks. Ferrari flexing floor, and lotus' special suspension that seems to lower ride height during the race. Only sparking car in Melbourne.
Anything goes it seems, Newey will react.

[DanardiF1]

I'd be surprised that more teams aren't doing it, as the floor is only thin carbon fibre (relative to something like a front wing which is many more layers and would require more complex weaves and layouts) and it's an area of the car where the gains are biggest for the smallest movements.

[Rakaman]

No, fine McLaren.

[Hanzo]

About time we had this kind of threads about Ferrari... Forza!!!

[FizzyJerk]

No, fine McLaren.

No, fine the thread starter for spelling jelly wrong.

[SpaMaster]

Oh the conundrum! You could either criticize Ferrari or accept what Red Bull did was not illegal. Over to the Ferrari fans! McLaren fans turn would come..

[Grundle]

Oh the conundrum! You could either criticize Ferrari or accept what Red Bull did was not illegal. Over to the Ferrari fans! McLaren fans turn would come..

One thing for sure, you can't complain about it.

[KnucklesAgain]

Oh the conundrum! You could either criticize Ferrari or accept what Red Bull did was not illegal. Over to the Ferrari fans! McLaren fans turn would come..

Not a conundrum, but just your false dilemma. It would be perfectly consistent to argue that what RB did was legal by the letter of the law, but nevertheless not pretty and not in line with all the forced cost cutting in most other areas, and since it's been obvious that FIA will not act, everybody else needs to go down that road if they want to have a chance at winning.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 April 2013 - 20:48.

[ZF1]

Ferrari is using a flexy floor in the Coke Bottle zone

In FP2 the car was showed in a high def slow motion when riding the kerbs and the floor was flexing like jelly.
GIF welcome



Ellements might be raising the plane to allow rake and form a wing shapped floor.


The floor is thin and the surface very extended to provide a big potential of downforce.

Seb is that you?

[SpaMaster]

Not a conundrum, but just your false dilemma. It would be perfectly consistent to argue that what RB did was legal by the letter of the law, but nevertheless not pretty and not in line with all the forced cost cutting in most other areas, and since it's been obvious that FIA will not act, everybody else needs to go down that road if they want to have a chance at winning.

No dilemma. You should have realized that long time back. F1 has always been like this. What RB did was nothing new. What was new however was the established team fans not being able to digest someone else doing it against them. They happily forgot what they used to do earlier

Edited by SpaMaster, 19 April 2013 - 20:53.

[Seanspeed]

I learned how to make a GIF today.

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 April 2013 - 20:57.

[fololo]

I learned how to make a GIF today.

legal

[AllTwelve]

...saw similar flexing on Rosberg's car in ultra slo-mo over curbing.

[Ellios]

riding over those bumps is enough to flex your front teeth out! Flexy rear wing as well

nice to see Ferrari out in front!

Edited by Ellios, 19 April 2013 - 21:04.

[KnucklesAgain]

No dilemma. You should have realized that long time back. F1 has always been like this. What RB did was nothing new. What was new however was the established team fans not being able to digest someone else doing it against them. They happily forgot what they used to do earlier

What RB did was nothing new. FIA was always inconsistent, but they certainly banned many other developments over the years which threatened to go into a direction they didn't like. Yet they did nothing against the obvious RB flex causing a spending war in that area even though cost cutting was a perennial theme.

[One]

Well we need one big flex mind.

[Seanspeed]

What RB did was nothing new. FIA was always inconsistent, but they certainly banned many other developments over the years which threatened to go into a direction they didn't like. Yet they did nothing against the obvious RB flex causing a spending war in that area even though cost cutting was a perennial theme.

They've been trying to kill the flexing of the Red Bulls for years now to be fair.

[V3TT3L]

I learned how to make a GIF today.

Thank you ! That was the image.

Ferrari's Harley Shake version

Edited by V3TT3L, 19 April 2013 - 21:29.

[BigCHrome]

Whoa, how come there are 2 holes in the exhaust area?

[MichaelPM]

Front wings flexing is one thing, but is there a rule specifically against "twerking"?

[SpaMaster]

What RB did was nothing new. FIA was always inconsistent, but they certainly banned many other developments over the years which threatened to go into a direction they didn't like. Yet they did nothing against the obvious RB flex causing a spending war in that area even though cost cutting was a perennial theme.

Let cut cost-cutting/spending-war etc. out of this. Every team is looking after its own interest and they are pushing the boundaries to see what they can get away with. FIA has another acronym expansion other than what it was meant to be. As long as you have criticized the same way for 'illegal' items/favours Ferrari has had in the past, I don't have any disagreement with you.

BTW, that Ferrari floor was a beauty! In your face-stuff should anyone complain anymore about some team's front wings..

Edited by SpaMaster, 19 April 2013 - 21:25.

[Ross Stonefeld]

That's what happens to bodywork when you go over kerbs. And it's not the kind of aero flexing you want.

[V3TT3L]

Whoa, how come there are 2 holes in the exhaust area?

I believe the smaller hole is not connected to the exhaust.

IMO, it must be a cold air duct to deflect the the hot gases, avoiding it to hit the rear tires and melt it down.

[V3TT3L]

That's what happens to bodywork when you go over kerbs. And it's not the kind of aero flexing you want.

Come on... you can do better.

You are grounded... go open the Nascar Kansas thread

[SpaMaster]

Seb, you have made your point. Go to bed now. Need to rest well before FP3.

[CrucialXtreme]

In this video you can see the Mercedes floor flexing as well. I would contribute it mostly to natural frequency.

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

[Ross Stonefeld]

Come on... you can do better.

You are grounded... go open the Nascar Kansas thread

Having massive fluctuations like that is terrible for your downforce.

[CrucialXtreme]

Having massive fluctuations like that is terrible for your downforce.

Not by the rear wheels it's not, it actually helps. This is why there is a specific flexibility test for this part of the floor. Teams have always pushed the boundaries of having the most flexible floor possible in flow corners, it's a big aero advantage.

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 19 April 2013 - 21:38.

[V3TT3L]

Having massive fluctuations like that is terrible for your downforce.

Under high flow wind load it must be static.

[Topsu]

I have to say, the 2013 Ferrari is one sexy looking car. Probably the best with Lotus.

[Ross Stonefeld]

But that's not what we're looking at. It's low (car)speed vibration.

[4MEN]

Ferrari is using a flexy floor in the Coke Bottle zone

See his avatar before reading

[Rikhart]

See his avatar before reading

What he said is valid, unlike your contribution...

[encircled]

Sauber in the same portion of the track.

[Rocket73]

That monkey seat is moving! Ban

[redreni]

First of all, there's no point criticising Ferrari, RBR or anybody else for having an illegal car. They passed scrutineering. If they passed scrutineering with an illegal car, good on them, they're doing their job. Their job is to win not to worry about playing fair - if they're up to no good its down to the FIA to catch them. If you're going to criticise anybody, criticise the FIA.

[PurpleHam]

I knew it, I knew they were upto something, they always start the season with a dog of a car.

Anyone got Jon Todt's number, he'll go ape when he hears about this...

[Seanspeed]

Jon Tot has better things to do.

[Hanzo]

What he said is valid

Sure it is! He says the Ferrari floor flexes when running in kerbs. I am sure we will see both Ferraris running through the kerbs from now on so they can obtain the maximum advantage of this illegal floor.

[Watkins74]

All I see is cars shaking like crazy on those kerbs.

[V3TT3L]

First of all, there's no point criticising Ferrari, RBR or anybody else for having an illegal car. They passed scrutineering. If they passed scrutineering with an illegal car, good on them, they're doing their job. Their job is to win not to worry about playing fair - if they're up to no good its down to the FIA to catch them. If you're going to criticise anybody, criticise the FIA.

Don't be naive man.
Scrut is held before the FP1.

Ferrari can change floors/parts along/among/between the sessions.

[V3TT3L]

All I see is cars shaking like crazy on those kerbs.

There are some tollerances for wings, not for the floor.

[Torsion]

Not by the rear wheels it's not, it actually helps. This is why there is a specific flexibility test for this part of the floor. Teams have always pushed the boundaries of having the most flexible floor possible in flow corners, it's a big aero advantage.

You are correct, but to gain an advantage the flexing has to be controlled and consistent, and relating to load, rather than vibration. On this occasion the flexing is obviously the result of vibration.

[Seanspeed]

There are some tollerances for wings, not for the floor.

Does it say that in the rules? Or are you just going by what sounds good?