162 replies to this topic

[rghojai]

Marty Smith from ESPN tweeted that a rod (can't remember if there was more than one) was 3 grams under the minimum weight... though the rules also specify the material used to make the rods so not impossible that the violation related to that?

[X61]

That's worse than a DQ. He would have scored more points if he chose not to show up last weekend.

[nosaj100]

Everything I read so far said one rod was 3 grams under. No way you're gaining any significant or probably even miniscule advantage with just one rod being 3 grams under. Likely what happened is someone at TRD made a mistake and let a defective rod (since it doesn't meet standards) get into the assembly. It'll be interesting to see if they reduce the penalties through the appeals because it really just comes off as a mistake. It's preventable and should still be penalized but the harshness of the penalty seems overblown for this case.

[Dilla]

I think some of the penalties have a decent shot at being decreased. TRD is taking full blame and is saying that JGR had nothing to do with it.

TRD Statement: "During NASCAR's routine post-race tear down of Matt Kenseth's race-winning car and engine from Kansas Speedway, one of our engine connecting rods weighed in approximately three grams under the legal minimum weight of 525 grams. None of the other seven connecting rods were found to be under the minimum weight. We take full responsibility for this issue with the engine used by the #20 Joe Gibbs Racing (JGR) team this past Sunday in Kansas -- JGR is not involved in the process of selecting parts or assembling the Cup Series engines. It was a simple oversight on TRD's part and there was no intent to deceive, or to gain any type of competitive advantage. Toyota is a company that was built on integrity, and that remains one of the guiding principles of the company. The goal of TRD has always been -- and will continue to be -- to build high-performance engines that are reliable, durable and powerful, and within the guidelines established by NASCAR."

[Ross Stonefeld]

How are they going to punish Toyota though? You punish the team that's out of spec. This is a song as old as racing, it's not a travesty of a penalty.

[Dilla]

Not saying Gibbs should get full pardon since it was their car, just that I think that some of the penalties have a decent shot of being decreased.

[John B]

What a season. There may have been a lack of talking points in the past, but this year they've managed to have a big story every week for various reasons. The penalty fund is going to make some people rich this year.

The supplier excuse has been done many times before, Roush used it during several busts years ago with roof flaps, engine parts, etc.

We've come a long way from the good old cheating days of buckshot or extra gasoline in the frame

[Lee Nicolle]

To me this seems as if JGR is being victimised. Nascar must know that in this corporate world with corporate engines the team did not deliberately cheat. In fact with one rod being 3g under it says nothing for their balancing program either. And if they do not check the product coming in maybe JGR should be suing them for less than satisfactory engines. If there is a minimum weight how many were over? Probably most adding too the bad balancing. Even if only a few grams.
IF they are building race engines like road car engines and balancing the assembly it says nothing for a quality race engine.
As a sometime engine builder that may be ok for a 5000rpm street motor, but not a 10000rpm race engine where everything has to be the same.
Even so called premium quality stuff has to be checked, what is sometimes written on them in not necesarily what they are. Been there and done that. Ounces out yet alone grams!

[OfficeLinebacker]

How are they going to punish Toyota though?

They did dock Toyota 5 manufacturer's points.

[OfficeLinebacker]

To me this seems as if JGR is being victimised. Nascar must know that in this corporate world with corporate engines the team did not deliberately cheat. In fact with one rod being 3g under it says nothing for their balancing program either. And if they do not check the product coming in maybe JGR should be suing them for less than satisfactory engines. If there is a minimum weight how many were over? Probably most adding too the bad balancing. Even if only a few grams.
IF they are building race engines like road car engines and balancing the assembly it says nothing for a quality race engine.
As a sometime engine builder that may be ok for a 5000rpm street motor, but not a 10000rpm race engine where everything has to be the same.
Even so called premium quality stuff has to be checked, what is sometimes written on them in not necesarily what they are. Been there and done that. Ounces out yet alone grams!

This is what I'm wondering. Shouldn't something have come up when the engine assembly was really hard to balance? Or is 2.7 grams actually not bad? After all the rods way like 525 grams, right?

[Lee Nicolle]

This is what I'm wondering. Shouldn't something have come up when the engine assembly was really hard to balance? Or is 2.7 grams actually not bad? After all the rods way like 525 grams, right?

They should be within a gram or less. 8 rods all should weigh the same. And should have been made a few grams5-10-20? over the minimum weight as they also have to have the end weights the same and you normally have to have a small amount of material to do that.
Like most people I send my work out and then check it when I get it back. To check the equipment is not expensive, to do the job properly is it is a good bit dearer.
It seems TRD don't do basic checks on 10000rpm engines which is NOT a good look, and especially if there is minimum weights. That is so basic a prep!
Though I have seen supposedly top US midget engines quite different in weights also. No limits but 5 grams here and there is hardly balanced, and the replacement parts were different again, lighter meaning the whole assembly has to be done again fully.

[Ross Stonefeld]

They did dock Toyota 5 manufacturer's points.

Boy, I bet they pissed their pants over that one.

[OfficeLinebacker]

They should be within a gram or less. 8 rods all should weigh the same. And should have been made a few grams5-10-20? over the minimum weight as they also have to have the end weights the same and you normally have to have a small amount of material to do that.
Like most people I send my work out and then check it when I get it back. To check the equipment is not expensive, to do the job properly is it is a good bit dearer.
It seems TRD don't do basic checks on 10000rpm engines which is NOT a good look, and especially if there is minimum weights. That is so basic a prep!
Though I have seen supposedly top US midget engines quite different in weights also. No limits but 5 grams here and there is hardly balanced, and the replacement parts were different again, lighter meaning the whole assembly has to be done again fully.

Thanks for the info. I've sent an engine out to be balanced once but don't know much about the details.

Now the question is, how did it not blow up? Or did they just balance it properly and send it on it's way?