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Ferrari F138: The race car Part II


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#51 skywing

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 18:00

If you recall last race, Kimi was whinning over the radio because Perez did the exact same thing that Kimi did to Alonso last year at Japan..

Are you sure about that? Alonso was ahead like Perez.

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#52 darkkis

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 18:02

If you recall last race, Kimi was whinning over the radio because Perez did the exact same thing that Kimi did to Alonso last year at Japan..

Bullshit. Alonso had all the track at the right side yet he starts moving into occupied space forcing Kimi off track.

#53 discover23

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 18:10

Are you sure about that? Alonso was ahead like Perez.

Kimi touched and spunned Alonso out... He touched Perez on the last race and he blamed Perez...
Is double standards.. alonso touched Vettel in Malaysia and it was his fault... This one i understand since the car running behind has the control and is responsible to not touch the car infront.. The damp track did not help Also.
In Japan, Kimi could have easily hit the brakes sooner but he choose not to..look at alonso's onboard , he had no clue Kimi was there and couldn't have avoided that incident.

#54 naiboz

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 18:23

ok so today was a bad race, but I am not too worried about it, the car is FAST

Vettel got an easy ride today, Webber was in the wars again, Ferrari had car issues, Mercedes ate their tyres, Lotus was not as fast as expected.

And I think Fernando said on twitter he has more points now than he did after 4 races last year

It will all come good :)

#55 Spa

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 18:43

Be positive, fifteen races to go... Barcelona can not come fast enough...



#56 BackOnTop

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 20:48

Fernando is just too unlucky..
Vettel winning the title in Brazil last year after that crash he had on the first lap and still continue unscratched gave me a hint that perhaps this decade is Vettel's and RedBull domination.. Very sad for Ferrari and Alonso's fans.

san marino 2005,
europe 2005,
germany 2005,
japan 2006,
singapore 2008,
bahrain 2010,
germany 2010,
italy 2010,
korea 2010,
britain 2011,
europe 2012

#57 redbarron

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 21:11

Luck will come back for Ferrari, and Red Bull will have bad luck. There is still 15 races. It was disappointing to see the issues in Bahrain but Ferrari are still up there, and Alonso really did well to get in the points!

#58 ZuTiMa

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 21:38

How much difference does DRS make when it comes to laptime and top speed?

Let use this race what would alonso have lost in time in KM??

#59 Toffeli

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 21:46

san marino 2005,
europe 2005,
germany 2005,
japan 2006,
singapore 2008,
bahrain 2010,
germany 2010,
italy 2010,
korea 2010,
britain 2011,
europe 2012


This. Fernando has collected so many wins because of his rivals falling down before him because of reliability problems. Just remember '05.

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#60 ferrarijon123

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 21:53

san marino 2005,
europe 2005,
germany 2005,
japan 2006,
singapore 2008,
bahrain 2010,
germany 2010,
italy 2010,
korea 2010,
britain 2011,
europe 2012

I don't understand how Alonso was lucky at Monza in 2010 or Silverstone 2011?

#61 Afterburner

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 21:59

I don't understand how Alonso was lucky at Monza in 2010 or Silverstone 2011?

I don't get Monza, but Vettel had a pit-stop issue in Silverstone 2011 that handed the lead to Alonso.

#62 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:02

So three weeks to Spain and the first European race of the season. Is this track likely to suit the F138? Is it a front or rear limited track? Will we have a significant update package to counter the upgrades of other teams?


Yes the Circuit de Catalunya will surely suit the F138. It is a front limited circuit, not quite as much as China but still front limited. The team said this weekend there will be updates in Barcelona & Monaco.

#63 ZuTiMa

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:02

ViVa F1 ‏@VivaAlonso

@alo_oficial
継続は力なり。 "Keizoku wa chikara nari"
Don't give up. Just continuing to hold on will yield/reveal strength and power.

#64 AlexS

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:35

We have several issues with tires.

#65 SCUDmissile

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 22:45

We have several issues with tires.

I agree Felipe needs to work them outin the race, and the team need to find out what in the hell happened with his puncture.
Fernando though, seems to be able to work the tyres better than most.

#66 DaiMOn

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 23:14

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#67 CF22

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 23:15

It's impossible to say if Fernando would have been able to fight for the win today, my gut feeling is once he switched to the harder tires he would have gotten past Vettel if not earlier. Unfortunately the DRS problem came up so early. Massa's problem has to be something other than the car or his driving style, I'm sure the broken front wing had something to do with this. Anyway, this was a race to forget, unfortunately we have to wait another 3 weeks for Barcelona. There's 15 races left and the points difference is not so huge after all. Forza Ferrari!!!

#68 Skinnyguy

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 23:17

If you recall last race, Kimi was whinning over the radio because Perez did the exact same thing that Kimi did to Alonso last year at Japan..


You´re totally clueless mate.

A) A driver has a rival alongside in the middle of a straight. He pushes him off.
B) A driver triangles a braking zone with a rival close behind and comming faster, already commited to a line, filtering in his face and denying him a chance to chose his own braking point.

If you can´t see how these scenarios are totally unrelated, you´re wasting time bothering to look at the races.

#69 Skinnyguy

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 23:22

In Japan, Kimi could have easily hit the brakes sooner but he choose not to..look at alonso's onboard , he had no clue Kimi was there and couldn't have avoided that incident.


Confirmed: you´re wasting your time watching something you can´t grasp if you actually believe that shit.

Why would a driver need to brake driving down a straight because there´s another guy alongside? How would a F1 top driver not know he´s been running alongside another guy for several seconds in a straight?


#70 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 00:30

I told you guys - curse of #3. I guess not even Alonso can break it. Worst part is that the RB9 looks like another RB7.

#71 discover23

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 00:50

This. Fernando has collected so many wins because of his rivals falling down before him because of reliability problems. Just remember '05.

As i mentioned earlier that is not luck .. Everyone else, not just alonso gets promoted one place everytime someone infront retires. It is absurd to say everyone in the race got lucky for getting more points than they should have because the guy in front retired.. Alonso just happens to be running 2nd more often than any other driver because he is always fighting for podium spots.. That is unluck for the guy that retires...

Edited by discover23, 22 April 2013 - 01:00.


#72 sheepgobba

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 00:52

Confirmed: you´re wasting your time watching something you can´t grasp if you actually believe that shit.

Why would a driver need to brake driving down a straight because there´s another guy alongside? How would a F1 top driver not know he´s been running alongside another guy for several seconds in a straight?



Oh please... take it to another place.

#73 Afterburner

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:00

As i mentioned earlier that is not luck .. Everyone else, not just alonso gets promoted one place everytime someone infront retires.. alonso just happens to be running 2nd more often than any other driver because he is always fighting for podium spots.. That is unluck for the guy that retires...

Agreed. Lucky people are often seen as lucky because they're good at putting themselves in a position to take advantage of any chance that they may have--in reality, they're not lucky, just well-prepared.

#74 boldhakka

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:48

Uncharacteristic of Fernando to talk about luck after a component failure that the team is responsible for.

#75 STIGG

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:50

I told you guys - curse of #3. I guess not even Alonso can break it. Worst part is that the RB9 looks like another RB7.


#3 won the championship in '97 and '00 - Schumacher's first title with Ferrari was won in car #3, perhaps Alonso's will be too.

If any number is cursed, it's #4. As far as I can tell, since drivers have used the same number throughout the season (~1970s), #4 has never won a championship. And unfortunately for poor Mercerdes, neither has #9 or #10. ;)

#76 kissTheApex

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:56

"meh" just about sums it up. On to the next race then...

#77 Kingshark

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:17

Mind you that Ferrari usually out-develops Red Bull in the 1st half of the season.

2011:
F150 was 1.0 seconds behind the RB7 in Australia and Malaysia.
Come to Britain an Germany, they were neck in neck.

2012:
F2012 was 1.0 seconds behind the RB8 in Australia.
When we got to Britain an Germany, Ferrari were once again on par with RBR.

#78 kissTheApex

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:32

Terribly unlucky today and everyone is so gutted because even with the issues we encountered underlying pace was brilliant, we lost a potentially great result. We have to analyse the situationvery carefully in the following days. Not much I can say but with Fernando there is an idea of what happened, looks like a sequence of things resulted in the DRS failure; with Felipe - completely clueless at the moment as preliminary analysis doesn't suggest anything related to mechanical damage (from debris, contact or wrong component mounting) or setup could end up in this manner. Lots of work in the time until Spain, we are up there where we want to be so keep the faith.

As to why Fernando tried to work the DRS again which ultimately lead to yet another pitstop -we obviously didn't expect it to get stuck again but even so running without it is a massive disadvantage with the two zones on this circuit and hence we didn't stand the greatest chance of overtaking or fighting off the top guys without it anyway.


thanks for popping in to gives us a bit of an update Iridescent. now that you guys have an idea what may have caused it, I'm sure something good will come out of it. Paul Hembry told (on BBC) that Massa's punctures were due to debris, but it is hard to believe he would pick up debris both times on the same wheel, unless he is consistently taking a very wide line at a left turn and picking up shards from caterham/str crash at the beginning of the race. Possible, but not that high probability I say.





#79 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:40

#3 won the championship in '97 and '00 - Schumacher's first title with Ferrari was won in car #3, perhaps Alonso's will be too.

If any number is cursed, it's #4. As far as I can tell, since drivers have used the same number throughout the season (~1970s), #4 has never won a championship. And unfortunately for poor Mercerdes, neither has #9 or #10.;)


I know #3 was won the championships in the past but it's also usually the number that has horrible luck and poor performances.


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#80 reggie

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:47

As to why Fernando tried to work the DRS again which ultimately lead to yet another pitstop -we obviously didn't expect it to get stuck again but even so running without it is a massive disadvantage with the two zones on this circuit and hence we didn't stand the greatest chance of overtaking or fighting off the top guys without it anyway.



Its the teams job to consider the risk of it getting stuck again and the race ruining consequences. Did they think it just accidentally got stuck and wouldnt happen again? Complete amateur hour. He did not really need DRS for the rest of the race because it does not gain you lap time, so as long as he was quick enough it would have been better. What they did was pathetic and cost a lot of points. Not to mention the fact that DRS failing open is completely stupid as well, and should be literally impossible in a properly designed system.

From what I saw Alonso's lap times were not very impressive in the race anyway. Can anyone confirm that? Once gain the redbull looked like magic once it can use proper tyres.

#81 seahawk

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:07

Mind you that Ferrari usually out-develops Red Bull in the 1st half of the season.

2011:
F150 was 1.0 seconds behind the RB7 in Australia and Malaysia.
Come to Britain an Germany, they were neck in neck.

2012:
F2012 was 1.0 seconds behind the RB8 in Australia.
When we got to Britain an Germany, Ferrari were once again on par with RBR.


But in those years Ferrari started with worse cars.

#82 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:03

The way the race went was bad enough, but I got the news as follows:

1. Started watching pre-show a bit too late on time shift.
2. Forgot about that
3. At 14:05 started to wonder why they are not about to start
4. At 14:06 realized my mistake when people started to comment moves on live chat. Turned off live chat until I'd have caught up due to ad breaks.
5. At lap 5 or so the time-shifted recording of the pre-show stopped without an ad break having happened, so I was still behind. (The race is a separated broadcast on RTL).
6. Wanted to switch to race recording, but messed up.
7. Accidentally switched to live race, just to see Alonso come in the second time.

:(

On to Barcelona.

#83 kosmos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:31

From what I saw Alonso's lap times were not very impressive in the race anyway. Can anyone confirm that? Once gain the redbull looked like magic once it can use proper tyres.


His pace was more than OK, specially if you take into account the lap time he lose because the DRS and the fact that Vettel was running in clean air most of the race.

http://en.mclarenf-1...so#.UXTY5Dc2jP8


Personally I don't have any problem with the race pace, now it's just a matter of who is going to bring better updates to Barca.

#84 Konsta

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:47

His pace was more than OK, specially if you take into account the lap time he lose because the DRS and the fact that Vettel was running in clean air most of the race.

http://en.mclarenf-1...so#.UXTY5Dc2jP8


Personally I don't have any problem with the race pace, now it's just a matter of who is going to bring better updates to Barca.

Does DRS not only help when you are in a position to use it? SV was easily a sec a lap faster than FA at just about any given point of the race - even when he was told to cruise...

#85 Motorbreath

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:03

Does DRS not only help when you are in a position to use it? SV was easily a sec a lap faster than FA at just about any given point of the race - even when he was told to cruise...


Alonso has to overtake on unusual places because of the lack of DRS and that hurt his tyres

#86 reggie

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:04

His pace was more than OK, specially if you take into account the lap time he lose because the DRS and the fact that Vettel was running in clean air most of the race.

http://en.mclarenf-1...so#.UXTY5Dc2jP8


Personally I don't have any problem with the race pace, now it's just a matter of who is going to bring better updates to Barca.



DRS does not help lap time in races, you can only use to over take.

#87 Spa

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:15

De la Rosa commented in the spanish TV that DRS was worth around 6 tenths per lap in Bahreain, so it was a huge disadvantadge as other cars were able to use it during many laps in the race, easily it could cost Alonso another 10-15 seconds...

I think victory was possible yesterday (not easy though as Vettel and his RedBull were superb) and second was a sure thing, so we have to keep fighting, if we had faith last season and in 2010, I think we are in a better situation this season,the championship is long and we (for a change) have a car to contend...

FORZA! ;-)

Edited by Spa, 22 April 2013 - 07:16.


#88 kawakibi

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:18

Does DRS not only help when you are in a position to use it? SV was easily a sec a lap faster than FA at just about any given point of the race - even when he was told to cruise...



1 sec faster on 2nd stint? yes, alonso was stuck on traffic and battling from 15 to 12 , and stuck behind pastor before 3rd pitstop... u can see laptimes on 3rd stint and compare to vettel.


it really hurt that alonso cannot use the drs on straight, because he cannot easily passed others cars like he did on china. and afaik there was a strong headwind down the straight so the advantage for DRS was bigger than usual (vettel said on post race). on 3rd and final stints, alonso laptimes was faster than hamilton, but once again when alonso get close to anyone , or even perez, its hard to defend on straight line.


Ferrari says Fernando Alonso could have won without DRS issue

"It is a bit unfortunate, because with the performance that Fernando had today we could have done an incredible job," said Domenicali.

"He was flying without the DRS, he was overtaking without the DRS - it's difficult to ask more than that from Fernando.

"I don't want to say that we would have been able to win because it is easy to say that, but theoretically it was possible."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106971

Edited by kawakibi, 22 April 2013 - 07:24.


#89 Mackey

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:24

Hard to evaluate Alonso´s pace. How can we know the upper flap of the RW was in its intended position? After all it was put back by hand by a mechanic, surely it was losing downforce

#90 reggie

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:49

Doesn't anyone listen or understand the basic rules of the sport? You can only use DRS in the race for overtaking, so it does not help lap times. Vettel did not use DRS once he got the lead.

#91 kosmos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:55

Doesn't anyone listen or understand the basic rules of the sport? You can only use DRS in the race for overtaking, so it does not help lap times. Vettel did not use DRS once he got the lead.


DRS give you lap time when you overtake, or maybe you think the extra speed you get when you open the DRS banish into thin air and it's not translated into tenths?.

#92 reggie

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:58

DRS give you lap time when you overtake, or maybe you think the extra speed you get when you open the DRS banish into thin air and it's not translated into tenths?.


Drivers are not over taking someone every lap, and if you are overtaking it means you were being held up on other areas of the track which negates the DRS speed advantage in 1 sector. Basic stuff really, yet some still don't seem to get it.

#93 ArkZ

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:21

I don't get Monza, but Vettel had a pit-stop issue in Silverstone 2011 that handed the lead to Alonso.


Yeah, but Alonso would still overtake him on the track, once the track was dry Ferrari was on the fire, 0,5s faster then RB in S2 alone.


I told you guys - curse of #3. I guess not even Alonso can break it. Worst part is that the RB9 looks like another RB7.


After these 4 races I would say F138 was the fastest car, even if RB9 is faster, the margin is 0,1-0,2s nothing like RB7 advantage so far, E21 is up there with both of them but struggle a bit in Q.

#94 Gintonious

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:26

When your luck is out, it is well and truly out.

Positives to take from this weekend but for gods sake this must be the last of it, 3 weeks till the next race and we sure as hell better get the finger out and iron out these issues. Too many times now has a poor start cost us at the end.

#95 camberley

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:33

Gutted with the turn of events in the Bahrain GP. That is 2 races out of 4 that we have had terrible luck.

Alonso will hold his head high, stay focused and battle back.

What really pisses me off is that Pirelli changed tyres for the GP and replaced the soft tyre which gave RB a huge advantage. There should be rules agianst this.

We will prevail. Vettel WILL NOT win another WDC this year. Alonso WILL.

FORZA !

Edited by camberley, 22 April 2013 - 08:37.


#96 kosmos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:34

and if you are overtaking it means you were being held up on other areas of the track


Thanks for the lesson professor.

#97 Astro

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:36

It's not useful to compare both drivers. They were doing very different races.

IMO, the best data you can get from there is their respective best lap times: 0.3s difference with 15 laps worth of fuel in between. I think they would have been close.

#98 icewest07

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:40

Drivers are not over taking someone every lap, and if you are overtaking it means you were being held up on other areas of the track which negates the DRS speed advantage in 1 sector. Basic stuff really, yet some still don't seem to get it.


+1
:up:

#99 Ravenak

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:53

Drivers are not over taking someone every lap, and if you are overtaking it means you were being held up on other areas of the track which negates the DRS speed advantage in 1 sector. Basic stuff really, yet some still don't seem to get it.


I'm sorry to say that for once, kosmos is completely missing the point, being stubborn as to defend Ferrari.

They made a huge mistake, there's no argument or number you can pull out of your hat to excuse it.

Basically, you can substract about 17 sec to Fernando's race time and that's his probable normal position without the bad call. When you see where he finished behind HAM/PER/WEB, says it all, really.

Edited by Ravenak, 22 April 2013 - 08:54.


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#100 Massa

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:03

With DRS open Alonso was only 1 second slower than Vettel. For me it's quite impressive because Vettel was pushing to pull a gap and Alonso had a huge disavantage in the corner.

The car had the speed for win this race, Barcelona will be good for us.