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Ferrari F138: The race car Part II


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#101 FirstWatt

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:12

[...]Basically, you can substract about 17 sec to Fernando's race time and that's his probable normal position without the bad call. [...]

Agreed.

1. He had more overtakes, because of his position, than he would have had in a normal race
2. These overtakes had to be done without DRS, so much more difficult

He had to stress his tires a lot do do the overtakes, and so he could not nurse them like he could have done in a "normal" race.

It's safe to say that they lost at least 2nd place because of the failure, and 3rd place because they were too optimistic (to say the least) allowing him the use of DRS for a second time.

Edited by FirstWatt, 22 April 2013 - 09:12.


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#102 Niceone

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:30

Gutted with the turn of events in the Bahrain GP. That is 2 races out of 4 that we have had terrible luck.

Terrible luck? These incidents have been about driver (Malaysia: Initial front wing damage) and team errors. If you want example of "terrible luck" then there's Spa 2012.

Edit:
Alonso had some luck in his Malaysia-disaster; at least it happened on relatively safe place. Remember Ratzenberger-incident? He had damaged his front wing, but didn't pit to fix that. Later his front wing failed and collapsed beneath front tyres.

Edited by Niceone, 22 April 2013 - 09:39.


#103 V3TT3L

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:50

Doesn't anyone listen or understand the basic rules of the sport? You can only use DRS in the race for overtaking, so it does not help lap times. Vettel did not use DRS once he got the lead.

DRS is allowed to overtake backmarkers too.

#104 Goron3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:52

With DRS open Alonso was only 1 second slower than Vettel. For me it's quite impressive because Vettel was pushing to pull a gap and Alonso had a huge disavantage in the corner.

The car had the speed for win this race, Barcelona will be good for us.


Agreed 100%. We will be strong at Barcalona, especially as we'll see lots of graining there and that's where we are stronger than say Red Bull. All teams go through poor runs and we will fight back I'm sure. Monaco too should be good for us.

Tempted to try and buy a race day ticket for Barca now to show my support..we can still do this!

Also, it's frustrating to see some people act as though a 30 point lead is massive, because in reality it's tiny. Under the old system it's like what, 12 points? Nothing to worry about.

#105 Frank

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:56

Does DRS not only help when you are in a position to use it? SV was easily a sec a lap faster than FA at just about any given point of the race - even when he was told to cruise...

That is when no one on your back and he can sort of control his own pace.....it will be different if someone hunting you down from the rear.

#106 Ravenak

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:28

Agreed.

1. He had more overtakes, because of his position, than he would have had in a normal race
2. These overtakes had to be done without DRS, so much more difficult

He had to stress his tires a lot do do the overtakes, and so he could not nurse them like he could have done in a "normal" race.

It's safe to say that they lost at least 2nd place because of the failure, and 3rd place because they were too optimistic (to say the least) allowing him the use of DRS for a second time.


4th would be more realistic.

#107 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:28

Agreed.

1. He had more overtakes, because of his position, than he would have had in a normal race
2. These overtakes had to be done without DRS, so much more difficult

He had to stress his tires a lot do do the overtakes, and so he could not nurse them like he could have done in a "normal" race.

Exactly. He had to drive hard, pre-2011 style. But with Pirelli tires. :up:

2nd was probably the minimum he'd have acheived.

Edited by Seanspeed, 22 April 2013 - 10:30.


#108 V3TT3L

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:47

http://www.marca.com...1366623708.html

"Sinceramente, pensábamos que el problema se había solucionado. Sabíamos que no se trataba de un problema del sistema hidráulico que lo acciona. Pensamos que se había bloqueado de forma puntual y que seguiría funcionando normalmente, pero no fue así", revelaba el italiano. "Por eso pulsó Fernando en esa vuelta", dijo confirmando que el piloto no tuvo responsabilidad y que no le llegaron a decir que no podía volver a usarlo el resto de la carrera.

Pero es una avería que es mal gestionada y Domenicali, finalmente deja un punto abierto a esa posibilidad. "En otra ocasión intentaremos que la reacción sea más rápida, pero apenas tuvimos dos segundos", sostenía. En cuanto a las causas se descartaba un problema "en el sistema hidráulico. Veremos al desmontar si es una tuerca o una pieza metálica o algún elemento de los que sirve para la fase de retorno", añadía el italiano.

#109 kosmos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:44

http://www.marca.com...1366623708.html

"Sinceramente, pensábamos que el problema se había solucionado. Sabíamos que no se trataba de un problema del sistema hidráulico que lo acciona. Pensamos que se había bloqueado de forma puntual y que seguiría funcionando normalmente, pero no fue así", revelaba el italiano. "Por eso pulsó Fernando en esa vuelta", dijo confirmando que el piloto no tuvo responsabilidad y que no le llegaron a decir que no podía volver a usarlo el resto de la carrera.

Pero es una avería que es mal gestionada y Domenicali, finalmente deja un punto abierto a esa posibilidad. "En otra ocasión intentaremos que la reacción sea más rápida, pero apenas tuvimos dos segundos", sostenía. En cuanto a las causas se descartaba un problema "en el sistema hidráulico. Veremos al desmontar si es una tuerca o una pieza metálica o algún elemento de los que sirve para la fase de retorno", añadía el italiano.



For those who don't speak Spanish, Domenicali is saying that they knew it was not an hydraulic problem, they thought it was an isolated issue but it turned to be not the case, "that's the reason Fernando pushed the button on that lap", the team never told Fernando to not push the button (because they thought the DRS was OK).

Edited by kosmos, 22 April 2013 - 11:44.


#110 Lelouch

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:48

For those who don't speak Spanish, Domenicali is saying that they knew it was not an hydraulic problem, they thought it was an isolated issue but it turned to be not the case, "that's the reason Fernando pushed the button on that lap", the team never told Fernando to not push the button (because they thought the DRS was OK).

Fair enough, still I don't think it was smartest decision from Ferrari. Thanks for the tranlation :-)

#111 Arry2k

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:22

Gary Anderson BBC Blog

"Ferrari have a quick car this year and they're making really bad decisions; last year they had a slow car and they were making really good decisions."

Sad, but true.

#112 Jon83

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:29

Doesn't anyone listen or understand the basic rules of the sport? You can only use DRS in the race for overtaking, so it does not help lap times. Vettel did not use DRS once he got the lead.


I'm almost certain he did.

You can use it passing back markers and he definitely passed Kimi on the main straight using it. Granted, probably only used it a handful of times but still.

I wouldn't be overly critical of the team not telling Alonso not to use DRS after this first stop. I think hindsight is a wonderful thing with regard to what Gary Anderson is saying.

Fairly encouraging weekend though despite everything that went wrong for both cars.

Edited by Jon83, 22 April 2013 - 12:29.


#113 Ravenak

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:51

Hindsight is a great thing, lucidity and common sense in the moment are even greater.

#114 Arry2k

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:55

I'm almost certain he did.

You can use it passing back markers and he definitely passed Kimi on the main straight using it. Granted, probably only used it a handful of times but still.

I wouldn't be overly critical of the team not telling Alonso not to use DRS after this first stop. I think hindsight is a wonderful thing with regard to what Gary Anderson is saying.

Fairly encouraging weekend though despite everything that went wrong for both cars.


I respectfully disagree both in this case and the Malaysia incident. To my mind at least, it was a bit of a 'no-brainer', they needed to tell him not to use DRS. It is a simple common sense approach.

Why? Well, this was not a simple case of the DRS failing to close (through say rubber debris obstruction), it was an over rotation of the flap as was obvious from the footage. As I understand flap passed the stoppers (which normally prevent such an occurrence) and the same stoppers prevented the wing from being pushed back down by the force of the airflow - from seeing the footage Ferrari should have know that the flap had passed the stoppers, after all they design the car.

This means, for whatever reason, that the stoppers have failed in their primary purpose, and without understanding the reasons/cause for their failure the consequence of which is that that you cannot have any confidence that it wont happen again. Once Ferrari were aware of the issue they knew then that they were going to be in damage limitation mode yet willfully exposed themselves to an unnecessary risk that inflicted yet more damage. Ferrari seemed more to be the land of hope rather than the real world on this one.

The same goes for Malaysia, that was not a simple front wing endplate/endfence failure which could have easily been managed, this was a failure of the structural support of the wing - again a 'no-brainer', call him in, change the wing & carry on.

#115 V3TT3L

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:56

Common sense would be testing if the DRS was fixed at the first pit stop, before sending Alonso back to the track.

#116 Arry2k

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:59

Common sense would be testing if the DRS was fixed at the first pit stop, before sending Alonso back to the track.

No. For the simple fact that the car is not travelling at 200mph whilst stationary in the pit box - differing conditions could result in different outcomes.

Common sense is leave the sodding DRS button alone, and if you must test it only do so on the in lap before your next stop.

#117 BackOnTop

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 13:17

Fernando breaks his Front Wing and calls it unlucky.
Fernando presses the DRS button 'unnecessarily' and calls it unlucky.

Ferrari should have forced Alonso to pit but screw up & call it unlucky.
Ferrari should have forced Alonso to stay away from DRS, screw up again & call it unlucky.

It's not "Unlucky' but stupidity if things get screwed up when the destiny is in your own hands.
Also, admitting to mistakes is the first path to rectifying it in the future. Seems like Ferrari & Alonso have stopped learning, and have started riding on a myth blaming everything from Newey to Luck.

30 points behind Vettel is the end result, and Ferrari & Alonso thoroughly deserves this outcome so far, even though they have the best all-round car of this 2013 campaign. This season may already be lost for Ferrari if they keep up this good form by summer break. They need to calm down and get a grip.

Edited by BackOnTop, 22 April 2013 - 13:19.


#118 Astro

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 13:33

Barrichello thinks Alonso could have challenged Vettel

#119 Mc_Silver

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 13:59

Fernando breaks his Front Wing and calls it unlucky.
Fernando presses the DRS button 'unnecessarily' and calls it unlucky.

Ferrari should have forced Alonso to pit but screw up & call it unlucky.
Ferrari should have forced Alonso to stay away from DRS, screw up again & call it unlucky.

It's not "Unlucky' but stupidity if things get screwed up when the destiny is in your own hands.
Also, admitting to mistakes is the first path to rectifying it in the future. Seems like Ferrari & Alonso have stopped learning, and have started riding on a myth blaming everything from Newey to Luck.

30 points behind Vettel is the end result, and Ferrari & Alonso thoroughly deserves this outcome so far, even though they have the best all-round car of this 2013 campaign. This season may already be lost for Ferrari if they keep up this good form by summer break. They need to calm down and get a grip.


Sensible post :up:

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#120 apexpredator

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:07

Fernando breaks his Front Wing and calls it unlucky.
Fernando presses the DRS button 'unnecessarily' and calls it unlucky.

Ferrari should have forced Alonso to pit but screw up & call it unlucky.
Ferrari should have forced Alonso to stay away from DRS, screw up again & call it unlucky.

It's not "Unlucky' but stupidity if things get screwed up when the destiny is in your own hands.
Also, admitting to mistakes is the first path to rectifying it in the future. Seems like Ferrari & Alonso have stopped learning, and have started riding on a myth blaming everything from Newey to Luck.

30 points behind Vettel is the end result, and Ferrari & Alonso thoroughly deserves this outcome so far, even though they have the best all-round car of this 2013 campaign. This season may already be lost for Ferrari if they keep up this good form by summer break. They need to calm down and get a grip.


Yet when Alonso wins or capitalizes on an opportunity, the same detractors call him 'lucky'. So he can only be lucky, never unlucky, yes? :confused:

He didn't refer to the FW contact as unlucky, that's his mistake. But what was unlucky about it is that of all the FW contacts, this one damaged it so severely. The damage was disproportionate to the nature of the collision many would say. Then whilst we've seen a FW hang on to cars in previous instances, this time it fell completely off...and even when it has fallen completely off in the past cars are still able to drag the wing with the undertray towards the pits.

He didn't say activating the DRS was the unlucky part though, did he? That's just your warped interpretation of it. Clearly they were referring to the actual DRS problem itself being unlucky.

Edited by apexpredator, 22 April 2013 - 14:07.


#121 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:15

Doesn't anyone listen or understand the basic rules of the sport? You can only use DRS in the race for overtaking, so it does not help lap times. Vettel did not use DRS once he got the lead.


Are you mental? If DRS doesn't help lap times, then why does everyone use it in Quali?? As for Vettel not using DRS, you can do that when you're out front in clean air as Fernando did in China, however when you're coming from the back if the grid the lack of DRS is a major disadvantage.

Please explain how anything I said above is not accurate then analyze your post and you will see in fact what you posted is simply not true or representative of the truth. Good day.

#122 Enzoluis

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:25

Nobody is worry about tire destruction by the F138? Massa destroyed all his set of tires in 10 laps and Alonso destroy his hards in a couple of laps more meanwhile RB seems to have solved their problem.

#123 kosmos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:30

Fernando breaks his Front Wing and calls it unlucky.
Fernando presses the DRS button 'unnecessarily' and calls it unlucky.


You are so full of it that is not funny. Alonso already said that the touch was his mistake, the luck part was that that small touch broke one pillar. The DRS part was already explained below and there is no way that you can blame Alonso for that.


Thanks for your post Crucial.

#124 Ravenak

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:31

Nobody is worry about tire destruction by the F138? Massa destroyed all his set of tires in 10 laps and Alonso destroy his hards in a couple of laps more meanwhile RB seems to have solved their problem.


This is not a worry. Massa had a number of problems, which might have worsened the tyre deg.

Fernando had no tyre deg problems in the traffic.
Webber had tyre deg problems in the traffic.
Vettel had no tyre deg problems in clean air.

#125 e34

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:39

Nobody is worry about tire destruction by the F138? Massa destroyed all his set of tires in 10 laps and Alonso destroy his hards in a couple of laps more meanwhile RB seems to have solved their problem.


Alonso's car aerodynamics were severely screwed by having to hammer RW back in place. Add to that the fact that he had to overtake without DRS, while Vettel had a clean race, and you could understand why Vettel's tyres were less stressed than they were in the last races, and Alonso's more. If RBR convinces Pirelli to select harder tyres, and if they are able to repeat these take the lead and run strategies, their tyres problems will dissapear by themselves (well, sort of).

And about Massa, maybe he has been buying time by exclusively focusing in qualy. He is qualifying very well, but then on race day, he fades away. Either his race pace needs improving or the car is incorrectly set up for the race. That's quite a dilemma, because if he changes his approach, he may end up qualifying badly, as at the beginning of last season, while then struggling in the race. It is somehow surprising how close he is now to Alonso in qualifying, but how far away in race pace and tyre management.

#126 Iridescent

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:41

OK, I said I'll let you know what I canabout the debrief if you're interested.

Fernando's issue was mechanical, the upper plane extended a bit too much and was tucked not without the help of the strong head wind on the main straight. At first we thought it was a one-off since it for sure wasn't hydraulics and we didn't encounter a similar issue with Felipe, so we thought it's safe to use and we probably wouldn't have finished higher than 4th/ 5th without it. But we were wrong and we have to learn from it, component would be revised for Barcelona to prevent the same problem from happening again.

Update re Massa’s tyres: there was a tear along the entire circumference of the inner sidewall while the tread itself wasn’t cut across. There was just the shallowest scratch with a piece of debris stuck on the surface that isn’t even likely to cause a slow puncture. The failure was most likely due to an excessive load put on the connecting patch along the inner sidewall. Responsibility to state a reason lies completely with the supplier and their delegated tyre engineers. However a valid explanation would be a combination of, but none of those on their own: suspension settings, the asymmetric load resulting from the front wing damage and high energy running through the tyre that caused internal overheating and weakened the shoulder. In the next two weeks we would be mostly concentrated on understanding better how the tyres interact with the extensive update package we are bringing.

#127 Astro

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:03

OK, I said I'll let you know what I canabout the debrief if you're interested.

Fernando's issue was mechanical, the upper plane extended a bit too much and was tucked not without the help of the strong head wind on the main straight. At first we thought it was a one-off since it for sure wasn't hydraulics and we didn't encounter a similar issue with Felipe, so we thought it's safe to use and we probably wouldn't have finished higher than 4th/ 5th without it. But we were wrong and we have to learn from it, component would be revised for Barcelona to prevent the same problem from happening again.

Update re Massa’s tyres: there was a tear along the entire circumference of the inner sidewall while the tread itself wasn’t cut across. There was just the shallowest scratch with a piece of debris stuck on the surface that isn’t even likely to cause a slow puncture. The failure was most likely due to an excessive load put on the connecting patch along the inner sidewall. Responsibility to state a reason lies completely with the supplier and their delegated tyre engineers. However a valid explanation would be a combination of, but none of those on their own: suspension settings, the asymmetric load resulting from the front wing damage and high energy running through the tyre that caused internal overheating and weakened the shoulder. In the next two weeks we would be mostly concentrated on understanding better how the tyres interact with the extensive update package we are bringing.

:up:

#128 sheepgobba

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:38

Common sense would be testing if the DRS was fixed at the first pit stop, before sending Alonso back to the track.



I was thinking this too, couldn't Ferrari instruct Fernando to open DRS in the pit and then press the brake to see whether the Wing closes or not?

Edited by sheepgobba, 22 April 2013 - 15:40.


#129 Massa

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:42

Common sense would be testing if the DRS was fixed at the first pit stop, before sending Alonso back to the track.



Easy to speak about common sence in front of your PC. They have to take a choice in a short time. They can't always be perfect.

They were perfect last year, not this year ATM but i'm sure at the end of the season we will say " damn, this team is fantastic, always the good choice " like last year.

#130 HPT

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:42

OK, I said I'll let you know what I canabout the debrief if you're interested.

Fernando's issue was mechanical, the upper plane extended a bit too much and was tucked not without the help of the strong head wind on the main straight. At first we thought it was a one-off since it for sure wasn't hydraulics and we didn't encounter a similar issue with Felipe, so we thought it's safe to use and we probably wouldn't have finished higher than 4th/ 5th without it. But we were wrong and we have to learn from it, component would be revised for Barcelona to prevent the same problem from happening again.

Update re Massa’s tyres: there was a tear along the entire circumference of the inner sidewall while the tread itself wasn’t cut across. There was just the shallowest scratch with a piece of debris stuck on the surface that isn’t even likely to cause a slow puncture. The failure was most likely due to an excessive load put on the connecting patch along the inner sidewall. Responsibility to state a reason lies completely with the supplier and their delegated tyre engineers. However a valid explanation would be a combination of, but none of those on their own: suspension settings, the asymmetric load resulting from the front wing damage and high energy running through the tyre that caused internal overheating and weakened the shoulder. In the next two weeks we would be mostly concentrated on understanding better how the tyres interact with the extensive update package we are bringing.


Thanks mate! :up:

#131 FirstWatt

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:47

OK, I said I'll let you know what I canabout the debrief if you're interested.[...]

Of course, we are interested...

Thank you for the insights! :up:

#132 FirstWatt

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:50

I was thinking this too, couldn't Ferrari instruct Fernando to open DRS in the pit and then press the brake to see whether the Wing closes or not?

The upper plane would not have made the override at this slow speed.

#133 SCUDmissile

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:55

Wow, it did look like the tread completely shredded off the sidewall which isn't normal in any of the punctures I have seen.
Hopefully it doesn't happens again, because as you say, it sounds like a supplier issue.

#134 V3TT3L

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 16:32

Easy to speak about common sence in front of your PC. They have to take a choice in a short time. They can't always be perfect.

They were perfect last year, not this year ATM but i'm sure at the end of the season we will say " damn, this team is fantastic, always the good choice " like last year.

There are consulting companies - like Tata for Ferrari - that makes organograms, maping all the process and the corrective actions when something goes wrong.

If [it happens] => then [do this]

A faulty DRS is something predictable/possible, so some corrective action should be prepared according to the manual.
I though it incredible that Domenicali didn't know what to do.
Not something like 'I thought it was solved, but didn't instructed Alonso about wether to use the DRS again - or not.'



#135 Ravenak

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 16:34

Easy to speak about common sence in front of your PC. They have to take a choice in a short time. They can't always be perfect.


Enough already with the "sofa/PC" argument. Many of us would have taken the right descision, had it been us. They have the same screens as we do.

Actually, they have even less excuse than us, because they have far more information than us, and THEY are the professionals, it's their job! That's the worst part.

#136 carlb5253

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 17:45

Alonso had a lot more to lose than gain by risking using the DRS.

He should of waited a lap or 2 before his next stop before trying it again. That would be more logical.

Driver error IMO

#137 kosmos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 17:50

Driver error IMO


Can you explain why it's a driver error when the team itself thought the DRS was OK and chose not to give any instruction to the driver or to give the driver the instruction to use it because they thought it was OK?.

Edited by kosmos, 22 April 2013 - 18:00.


#138 Astro

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 17:56

Wow, it did look like the tread completely shredded off the sidewall which isn't normal in any of the punctures I have seen.
Hopefully it doesn't happens again, because as you say, it sounds like a supplier issue.


I don't know, a tire should be able to stand any suspension setting and high temps. If an aerodynamic imbalance can be the difference between having a puncture or not, I think they should reinforce these tires asap. Does anyone know the cause of Hamilton's puncture?

#139 Forma1

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:07

After a dismal day I am prone to say that Vettel has already secured his fourth title, his car is strong and even if Stefano claims Alonso could have gone for the win, I can't see it. Okay, he didn't have DRS, he couldn't take care of his rubber cos he was in traffic in most of the time and he had to try to overtkae in places you normally don't try to do it, but Vettel had such a better pace...

Anyway: can you remember someone having such a DRS glitch we experienced yesterday? It sometimes happen that DRS can not be opened again, but I can't recall it stuck opened.

Pat said Fernando had the problems from lap 6, but I suspected it began right from the first moment he activated his DRS in lap 3. Am I wrong?

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#140 BernieEc

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:20

After a dismal day I am prone to say that Vettel has already secured his fourth title, his car is strong and even if Stefano claims Alonso could have gone for the win, I can't see it. Okay, he didn't have DRS, he couldn't take care of his rubber cos he was in traffic in most of the time and he had to try to overtkae in places you normally don't try to do it, but Vettel had such a better pace...

Anyway: can you remember someone having such a DRS glitch we experienced yesterday? It sometimes happen that DRS can not be opened again, but I can't recall it stuck opened.

Pat said Fernando had the problems from lap 6, but I suspected it began right from the first moment he activated his DRS in lap 3. Am I wrong?


I think Schumacher had that problem last year as well. Not sure what race ...maybe canada

#141 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:35

I wonder what happened to the "for security reasons it's impossible that DRS gets stuck in the open position" that was kind of a precondition to introduce it in the first place.

#142 Astro

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:41

After a dismal day I am prone to say that Vettel has already secured his fourth title, his car is strong and even if Stefano claims Alonso could have gone for the win, I can't see it. Okay, he didn't have DRS, he couldn't take care of his rubber cos he was in traffic in most of the time and he had to try to overtkae in places you normally don't try to do it, but Vettel had such a better pace...

Anyway: can you remember someone having such a DRS glitch we experienced yesterday? It sometimes happen that DRS can not be opened again, but I can't recall it stuck opened.

Pat said Fernando had the problems from lap 6, but I suspected it began right from the first moment he activated his DRS in lap 3. Am I wrong?


It happened right after Alonso repassed Rosberg. In the first overtake it seemed to be moving normally (the early replays, as usual, interfered with key moments of the race).

I was much more negative last year. I knew that no matter what Ferrari did, RBR was few steps ahead in development. This year Ferrari has a car that is up there with RBR in qualifying and with a pace comparable to that of Vettel, IMO. Unfortunately, we lost the best chance to verify it in Bahrain.

RBR will bring more updates to Spain, but I doubt they will give a quantum leap. The whole idea about how to maximize the use of exhaust gases hasn't changed (has it?). I feel Ferrari has caught up with the level of development, so I am fairly confident they can win this year :up:

#143 V3TT3L

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:13

Pat said Fernando had the problems from lap 6, but I suspected it began right from the first moment he activated his DRS in lap 3. Am I wrong?

Yes, I saw a compact tape and at the end of main straight - lap 4 - Alonso's DRS was OK.

#144 AlexS

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:13

Massa already had tire issues in practice so what happened in race except for the extreme degree of it is nothing surprising.

#145 Aerosoul

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:37

Hopefully this car can win the next race. I still believe we have phenomenal pace

#146 carlb5253

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 20:14

Can you explain why it's a driver error when the team itself thought the DRS was OK and chose not to give any instruction to the driver or to give the driver the instruction to use it because they thought it was OK?.


If the team failed to notify him he should of asked for clarification.

Team and driver error

#147 Claudiu

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 22:00

To early to speak about lost championship bla bla bla ... championship is long and lots of stuff will happen, what is important is that we try and solve this problems and errors(lets not forget in Malaezia it was Fernando's error).

We must rediscover our consistency from last year and try and win a few races ... it we do that we will be in the fight.

Car is fast and shows potential, this is the best news for me really.

Edited by Claudiu, 22 April 2013 - 22:01.


#148 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 22:21

I don't think they had the pace to beat Vettel, he was already breaking away from Alonso before the wing broke. Raikkonen was probably too fast as well, but Alonso would've definitely gotten 3rd.

#149 fabr68

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 23:07

I don't think they had the pace to beat Vettel, he was already breaking away from Alonso before the wing broke. Raikkonen was probably too fast as well, but Alonso would've definitely gotten 3rd.


Don't know. With a broken DRS and an extra pitstop, Alonso finished 37.5 seconds behind Vettel. I think he could have challenged for the win but it makes no sense on crying over spilled milk. The championship is long

#150 reggie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 00:19

Are you mental? If DRS doesn't help lap times, then why does everyone use it in Quali?? As for Vettel not using DRS, you can do that when you're out front in clean air as Fernando did in China, however when you're coming from the back if the grid the lack of DRS is a major disadvantage.

Please explain how anything I said above is not accurate then analyze your post and you will see in fact what you posted is simply not true or representative of the truth. Good day.



I said DRS does not help lap time in the race not qualifying, so please try to understand the argument before you butt in. DRS is indeed an advantage coming through the back of the grid with overtaking but it does not help lap time, it's as simple as that and I'm surprised we are even having this debate. It can only be activated in a race when you are 1 second behind another car in the right zones, so it had no effect on Alonso's race pace like many are trying to present.

Edited by reggie, 23 April 2013 - 02:42.