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Ferrari F138: The race car Part II


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#251 Gintonious

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 15:46

Pretty sure thats the 2011 car, italian flag on the wing and no white/black accents.

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#252 ApexMouse

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 15:56

err...He says f150 in the post? Heehee.

#253 V3TT3L

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 16:29

No step in the nose.
Its the 2013 contender, IMO.

#254 Seanspeed

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 18:21

No step in the nose.
Its the 2013 contender, IMO.

F150 didn't have a step in the nose, either.

#255 steferrari

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 18:25

No step in the nose.
Its the 2013 contender, IMO.

That's clearly the Ferrari 150° Italia (2011).

#256 V3TT3L

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 19:35

That's clearly the Ferrari 150° Italia (2011).

OK, I'm convinced now... the white front pillars.

#257 Gintonious

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 20:05

Whoops, sorry.

#258 Kingshark

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:01

Ferrari please, don't throw any more points away now.

What frustrates me is that last year Ferrari and Alonso did such à great job with à the 3rd or 4th fastest car, that it feels as if this year they are spoiling the potential of à better car.

#259 V3TT3L

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:14

According to the most avant garde scientific method:

wishes me, wishes me not...

Australia - :up:
Malaysia - :down:
China - :up:
Bahrain - :down:
Spain - :clap:

Edited by V3TT3L, 06 May 2013 - 02:14.


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#260 Kingshark

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:15

According to the most avant garde scientific method:

wishes me, wishes me not...

Australia - :up:
Malaysia - :down:
China - :up:
Bahrain - :down:
Spain - :clap:

:love:

#261 kosmos

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 15:06

The chat is back, let's hope the scuderia racing news videos are back too.

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#262 jstrains

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 15:38

It is time for another Spanish home win :wave:

#263 Richard T

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:43



:clap:

#264 kosmos

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:13

“A score of 6 on the report card but I’m optimistic”

“Of course, we too have updates and naturally, I don’t want to go into too much detail, but they extend to the bodywork, floor and wings."


So excited for this GP :clap:

#265 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:32

“A score of 6 on the report card but I’m optimistic”



So excited for this GP :clap:

Nice interview, makes me optimistic for the rest of the year and the coming years. Tombazis doesn't normally attend any of the GPs, but i think he normally goes to the Spanish GP and has a good look at the rest of the cars in the flesh.

#266 Iridescent

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:25

This Friday would be absolutely crazy with some boxes likely to be received as late as mid through FP1 and just so many of those in general. Busy days

#267 Spa

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:33

This Friday would be absolutely crazy with some boxes likely to be received as late as mid through FP1 and just so many of those in general. Busy days

Good to know you are pushing the updates until the very last minute...

On the other hand, new harder tyres from this weekend on... Red Bull dominance all over again? I hope that is not the case, but to be honest, I am a little bit scared...

Forza! ;-)

#268 Gintonious

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 14:07

Is the new harder tyre good for us as well? RB are getting a mention about it but could it play well for us?

#269 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 17:19

He says they've gotten a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the car. I wonder what they consider them to be? I cant really make much sense of it at the moment.

#270 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 17:39

Rivola said a few weeks back that traction is the main weakness, which is not surprising since it was a big problem ever since the F2012 was born, and the F138 is a development of that car.

#271 V3TT3L

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 17:57

Wings are the main Ferrari weakness... too fragile. :yawnface:

#272 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 18:00

Rivola said a few weeks back that traction is the main weakness, which is not surprising since it was a big problem ever since the F2012 was born, and the F138 is a development of that car.

Yea I remember him saying that, but it'd be great to know in a bit more detail what they mean by that. Its a little bit of a vague statement. Is it purely mechanical traction that they aren't confident about? Is it maybe the car's downforce performance at lower speeds? Is it all rear-related? Is it something that only occurs in warmer weather or a certain type of track surface? How come we were looking pretty strong at Bahrain, which is typically considered a 'traction-heavy' track?

I know we rarely get to hear these specifics sorts of things, but I wish we did.

#273 tweiss

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 18:31

Wings are the main Ferrari weakness... too fragile. :yawnface:

haha...U R so funny... the same can be said for your drivers ego as well...

#274 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 22:30

Yea I remember him saying that, but it'd be great to know in a bit more detail what they mean by that. Its a little bit of a vague statement. Is it purely mechanical traction that they aren't confident about? Is it maybe the car's downforce performance at lower speeds? Is it all rear-related? Is it something that only occurs in warmer weather or a certain type of track surface? How come we were looking pretty strong at Bahrain, which is typically considered a 'traction-heavy' track?

I know we rarely get to hear these specifics sorts of things, but I wish we did.


Well this is my speculation, and i dont consider myself to be technical:

We have vertical radiators. It means our sidepods are a bit wider and taller at the front but allows us to have a sharper slope to our sidepods as we go back and therefore free up more space in the coke bottle area. In medium and high speed corners the airflow is high and there is no flow attachment problem - the air travels at high speed down the sloping sidepods and over the top of the diffuser and beam wing. In traction zones, the car is travelling at a low speed and does not have so much air flow going over it. Perhaps there is a flow attachment problem and not enough air is reaching the diffuser.

Also bear in mind our exhaust which is rampless and this is why Red Bull may have an advantage in traction zones compared to us.

You are right to say that we had good pace in Bahrain despite the rear limited nature of the track (a type of track which, theoretically, our car should not be so good at). To show such good pace in Bahrain is very encouraging.


#275 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 00:19

Sounds plausible to me. I'm really not very good with the aero stuff.

#276 kosmos

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:39

Is the new harder tyre good for us as well? RB are getting a mention about it but could it play well for us?



According to Alguersuari (he was on TV last night), the new harder it's like the old harder, the difference it's that the new one works at lower temperature, I don't see why it should be bad for us, but maybe it's better for RB and worse for Lotus... we will see.

Edited by kosmos, 08 May 2013 - 06:26.


#277 Jovanotti

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:42

...and Mark Gillan on JA's site thinks the new hards will benefit everyone except Mercedes because of the wider operating window.

http://www.jamesalle...rd-tyre-change/

#278 Gintonious

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:22

Talk of James Allison joining the team as well, if true, would bode well for us!!!

#279 rsaca

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 15:49

It's going to be interesting to see the "prototype" hards, 2012-spec compound in 2013 construction, will change the panorama for the top teams.

Hope the tires stay the same though.

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#280 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 17:27

Article from autosprint about the updates for Barcelona:

http://www.auto.it/a...0... F138 "evo"

Basically, there is a quote from Tombazis that the exhausts are an area where you can still gain more performance" and the article speculates that this will be one of the biggest changes. It also talks about the team wanting to improve one lap pace and new brake ducts.

Apart from moving to a coanda ramp, i can't see how they can really change the exhausts that much.

#281 vista

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 19:43

Apart from moving to a coanda ramp, i can't see how they can really change the exhausts that much.


That makes me think about the maximum potential of the car; maybe in mid-year or at some point they can't develop the car any further? That is why Mclaren built a whole new car as they thought their 2012-car had reached the maximum potential. But maybe the f138 have a bigger potential because the F-2012 was radical and aggressive and the f138 is an evolution from the F-2012.

Edited by vista, 08 May 2013 - 19:45.


#282 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 20:38

Apart from moving to a coanda ramp, i can't see how they can really change the exhausts that much.


Respectfully this is why you are not an F1 Engineer. :)
The team could have found gains in simulation by modifying the actual exhaust pipes/headers themselves. In Bahrain Ferrari brought new sidepods which changed the shape right under the UPS logo which affects airflow to the rear which also effects the exhaust. Maybe in simulation they found adding another hump just before the exhaust helps or maybe they lower the current exit/ramp.
Red Bull has recently introduced 2 strakes ahead of the rear tyre which interact with the exhaust. I'm only saying there's many things that can be done. I'm not an F1 engineer either mate, but there are options and we're dealing with smart people. Without having access to the teams data it's all speculation of course.

Here's to spotting changes in Barcelona :up:

That makes me think about the maximum potential of the car; maybe in mid-year or at some point they can't develop the car any further? That is why Mclaren built a whole new car as they thought their 2012-car had reached the maximum potential. But maybe the f138 have a bigger potential because the F-2012 was radical and aggressive and the f138 is an evolution from the F-2012.


No way the F138 is close to max development.


#283 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 22:25

Thinking of the F138 as a mere 'evolution' of the F2012 I think is wrong. Judging from the pace of the car and the onboards, its completely transformed from what we had last year. This is a new base to work off of, not just a further updated F2012. Mclaren have convinced a lot of people that they went 'completely radical', when really, all they did was just get in line with what others have been doing already with a higher nose concept. I believe Mclaren are still a threat, but I dont buy that their performance ceiling is so much higher than anybody else's.

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 May 2013 - 22:26.


#284 Claudiu

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:04

30 pt. is not a big deficit but we need to recover our consistency !!!

No more mechanical failures, no more pilot errors(like in Malaezia) we need to be on the podium every race from now on in order to catch up. If we stay consistent and we perform well we don't even need back luck from others.

I think we should target a win on Sunday and I am hopeful that we can win this weekend

'

#285 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:24

Thinking of the F138 as a mere 'evolution' of the F2012 I think is wrong. Judging from the pace of the car and the onboards, its completely transformed from what we had last year. This is a new base to work off of, not just a further updated F2012. Mclaren have convinced a lot of people that they went 'completely radical', when really, all they did was just get in line with what others have been doing already with a higher nose concept. I believe Mclaren are still a threat, but I dont buy that their performance ceiling is so much higher than anybody else's.


of course it is an evolution


#286 ViMaMo

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:33

Reading some of the posts, the car still has issues with traction and aero grip in slower corners. All to do with the larger sidepods frontal area?

#287 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:50

We have what looks to be an updated engine cover. Will post a pic in a bit.

#288 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:55

Thinking of the F138 as a mere 'evolution' of the F2012 I think is wrong. Judging from the pace of the car and the onboards, its completely transformed from what we had last year. This is a new base to work off of, not just a further updated F2012. Mclaren have convinced a lot of people that they went 'completely radical', when really, all they did was just get in line with what others have been doing already with a higher nose concept. I believe Mclaren are still a threat, but I dont buy that their performance ceiling is so much higher than anybody else's.


Personally, i like to see it as a de-flawed F2012. The F2012 was born with alot of flaws and the team tried to fix these as quick as possible. I'm sure there were some fundamentals on the car they would have liked to have changed but were unable to because it would require them to basically release a new brand car. Just my opinion.

#289 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:57

Respectfully this is why you are not an F1 Engineer. :)
The team could have found gains in simulation by modifying the actual exhaust pipes/headers themselves. In Bahrain Ferrari brought new sidepods which changed the shape right under the UPS logo which affects airflow to the rear which also effects the exhaust. Maybe in simulation they found adding another hump just before the exhaust helps or maybe they lower the current exit/ramp.
Red Bull has recently introduced 2 strakes ahead of the rear tyre which interact with the exhaust. I'm only saying there's many things that can be done. I'm not an F1 engineer either mate, but there are options and we're dealing with smart people. Without having access to the teams data it's all speculation of course.

Here's to spotting changes in Barcelona :up:


I'll be honest, i rarely am able to spot subtle changes like that, unless they are pointed out on forums like this and f1technical. :blush:

#290 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:01

Sorry for the multiple posts, but as i predicted, Tombazis is attending this race and he will be our representative in the FIA Team Principles Conference. Always interested to hear what he has to say. I find him a bit more candid than Pat Fry.

#291 Gintonious

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:29

This would be very welcome.

#292 V3TT3L

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:51

Posted Image

Posted Image
The air duct detail that carries cold air to the back of the car.

#293 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:07

Posted Image

Posted Image
The air duct detail that carries cold air to the back of the car.


I love these pre-racemeeting car build photos more than anything :up:

#294 Ferrari2183

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 18:21

New flow conditioner over the leading edge of the sidepods as well as an added fin forward of the mirrors.

http://twitpic.com/cpfiv4

#295 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 18:32

New flow conditioner over the leading edge of the sidepods as well as an added fin forward of the mirrors.

http://twitpic.com/cpfiv4

Ala Mclaren last year.

Not a fan of how it looks, honestly. I'm not complaining, though! Updates are updates.

Edited by Seanspeed, 09 May 2013 - 18:34.


#296 Ferrari2183

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 19:14

Ala Mclaren last year.

Not a fan of how it looks, honestly. I'm not complaining, though! Updates are updates.

Yep, this will aide rear downforce by enhancing downwash.

#297 Richard T

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 20:38

Front-floor details looks a bit different also

#298 Cacarella

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 21:06

Here's the image...

Yes, front floor looks like large opening to suck air under the floor. It may well have already looked like that, I don't think
I've ever really examined the car at this angle.

Posted Image

#299 2ms

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 21:53

Does anyone know what Pat Fry's formal education has been? Par for the course among big guys in F1 engineering seems to be PhDs. Then I look at Pat Fry and I don't even see any university listed in his background at all. It would be quite remarkable if he was indeed able to ascend to nearly the top of F1 without jumping through any of the academic hoops we associate with success in prominent engineering positions.

Anyone have more info on Pat Fry's academic background?

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#300 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 21:58

Does anyone know what Pat Fry's formal education has been? Par for the course among big guys in F1 engineering seems to be PhDs. Then I look at Pat Fry and I don't even see any university listed in his background at all. It would be quite remarkable if he was indeed able to ascend to nearly the top of F1 without jumping through any of the academic hoops we associate with success in prominent engineering positions.

Anyone have more info on Pat Fry's academic background?


Fry comes from the London suburb of Shepperton. He found studying a frustrating experience and after several attempts at courses in electronic engineering he became an apprentice with Thorn EMI. He then completed a day-release course in electronics at the City of London Polytechnic. His lack of academic qualifications, however, did not indicate a lack of intelligence and he was soon working on missile programs for Thorn EMI. Like many young engineers he got bored with the paperwork and began looking elsewhere. In his spare time he designed and built unusual suspension systems for motorbikes but unable to find a job in motorcycle racing he applied for work at Benetton in 1987 - just as the team was embarking on its active suspension program.


http://www.grandprix...ref-frypat.html

he is the John Major of F1!

Edited by TheThirdTenor1, 09 May 2013 - 22:00.