39 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

What's the record? How long did it take until a rookie scored a point in a season?
Now we had four races, no points by a rookie - a record?

[Clatter]

What's the record? How long did it take until a rookie scored a point in a season?
Now we had four races, no points by a rookie - a record?

No idea what the record is, but 4 races is nowhere close. Charles Pic didn't score at all last year so that's a whole season at least.

It's much harder for the back of the field teams to pickup points these days due to the reliability they all now enjoy.

[Zava]

No idea what the record is, but 4 races is nowhere close. Charles Pic didn't score at all last year so that's a whole season at least.

It's much harder for the back of the field teams to pickup points these days due to the reliability they all now enjoy.

I think he/she meant no points by any of the rookies.

[Sin]

it's not like any of them have a car that is really awesome to drive into the points.... only Bottas and Gutierrez have a slight chance, but even Hülkenberg has to really fight the C32 to an extreme to at least get points in that car.... sooo I understand Esteban not gathering points... didn't follow the Williams situation alot...

Caterham and Marussia, when was the last time any of their driver gathered points?

[rjsports]

Considering you only got points when you finished in the top 6 back in the days i'd say it's more than 4 races.

[HistoryFan]

I think he/she meant no points by any of the rookies.

Yes, that's the point. Any of the rookies.

[Bleu]

No rookies scored points in 1990 or 1998.

1990 had new point-scorers with Bernard (2 races before) and Suzuki (1 race+16DNPQ before) in 4th and 8th race.
1998 only new point-scorer was Magnussen who had one full season and one race before. 7th race of the season.

[HistoryFan]

Thank you

[HistoryFan]

Rookies 1990:
- David Brabham (Brabham)
- Gary Brabham (Life)
- Gianni Morbidelli (Scuderia Italia, Minardi)
- Claudio Langes (EuroBrun)
- Gregor Foitek (Brabham, Onyx), although he had DNQ in 1989 with EuroBrun and Rial

Rookies 1998:
- Esteban Tuero (Minardi)
- Toranosuke Takagi (Tyrrell)

[Showty]

Caterham and Marussia, when was the last time any of their driver gathered points?

It this a tricky question?

I mean, both teams have never scored.

[Cavani]

3 rookies that can never score points in their cars , 2 that have shitty cars

[7MGTEsup]

Considering you only got points when you finished in the top 6 back in the days i'd say it's more than 4 races.

But back in those days there was the likelyhood of only 10 cars (or less) finishing a race. Not the 18 we seem to have race after race now, which is part of the reason new teams can never really break into F1 as they need to score points to get money.

[EthanM]

But back in those days there was the likelyhood of only 10 cars (or less) finishing a race. Not the 18 we seem to have race after race now, which is part of the reason new teams can never really break into F1 as they need to score points to get money.

you don't need to score points to get money (the last 2 years what decided who got the last tranche of money was a 12th place finish)

[Opaque]

You could still count Grosjean as a rookie since he hasn't completed a full season and he has 26 points. Not bad in just four races.

[Jackmancer]

Luca Badoer did 58 races and never scored a point. Not his fault though, he once retired due mechanical failure en route to 4th place. But in his Ferrari races he could have snatched his first point, really.

Then there's Nicola Larini, who did score points, but only after 69 stars.

Edited by Jackmancer, 25 April 2013 - 14:44.

[charly0418]

You could still count Grosjean as a rookie since he hasn't completed a full season and he has 26 points. Not bad in just four races.

What

[onemoresolo]

You could still count Grosjean as a rookie since he hasn't completed a full season and he has 26 points. Not bad in just four races.

Tenuous in the extreme!

[charly0418]

The only one that has had a chance to score points was Gutierrez in Malaysia.
Other than that they were being lapped.

[Myrvold]

But in his Ferrari races he could have snatched his first point, really.

Just like Fisichella did

Also, remember that Alonso only got a single top 10 in his first season. When 10 drivers finished.

[skywing]

The only one that has had a chance to score points was Gutierrez in Malaysia.
Other than that they were being lapped.

It was Bottas actually.

[pacificquay]

Considering you only got points when you finished in the top 6 back in the days i'd say it's more than 4 races.

Reliability means it was easier to get a top 6 then than a top 10 now, I'd suggest

[joshb]

I think Gutierrez and Bottas have the cars to score points when there's a 2 or 3 retirements- I think one of them has had a 12th or 13th and in recent races retirements have been low
VDG, Chilton and Bianchi won't unless there's a sizeable level of attrition (6 or 7 faster car retiring)

[charly0418]

It was Bottas actually.

It was both lol, Gutierrez would have had a chance had he pitted one last time but for some reason Sauber decided to stretch the last stint. Bottas fnished 11th, close to Vergne

[ryan86]

I think I read that about 50% of all finishers scored points then and it's about the same now.

[hogstar]

Can see Bottas scoring points if Williams' upgrades at Barcelona have the desired effect. It's going to be a tough year for rookies this season.

Until we see full grids again, I'd like to see third (perhaps older spec) cars used to assess young drivers, but can't see Bernie ever letting that happen unless we lost a couple more teams.

[Myrvold]

I think I read that about 50% of all finishers scored points then and it's about the same now.

That might be true. You only need 2 retirements to get a 50% today. And that's what you have. While you had 26 cars most of the time when you had 6 point scorers, you could get away with 14 retirements in a single race, and still have 50%

However, let's pretend that each car in each team runs at the same speed. And the retirements is only happening among those who get's points. Today two retirements means that if there is a gap between team 6 and 7, you will see 6 teams run away with the points. If you have 10 retirements in a race. You could have the 15th and 16th fastest car, and pick up a double point finish. With more retirements, and still just top 6 with points.

Edited by Myrvold, 25 April 2013 - 22:52.

[PayasYouRace]

I did an analysis of points scorers:finishers over the past 20 years or so a couple of years ago. Finding it on here would be a pain but it did show that the ratio is more or less the same given modern reliability rates.

[ryan86]

Just a few calculations of how many of the points scoring positions the top 5 teams in that years constructors championship took.
1993 - 78.1%
1994 - 72.9%
1995 - 76.4%
2002 - 82.3% (last year of 6)
2003 - 81.25% (first year of 8)
2010 - 73.6%
2011 - 75.3%
2012 - 70%

Obviously I've only done 8 of the 20 years in the period, because it's half two in the morning, but the figures look pretty consistent.

[onemoresolo]

Just a few calculations of how many of the points scoring positions the top 5 teams in that years constructors championship took.
1993 - 78.1%
1994 - 72.9%
1995 - 76.4%
2002 - 82.3% (last year of 6)
2003 - 81.25% (first year of 8)
2010 - 73.6%
2011 - 75.3%
2012 - 70%

Obviously I've only done 8 of the 20 years in the period, because it's half two in the morning, but the figures look pretty consistent.

Interesting stats, thanks

[UPRC]

You could still count Grosjean as a rookie since he hasn't completed a full season and he has 26 points. Not bad in just four races.

Did you miss all of last season?

[skywing]

Did you miss all of last season?

Technically he hasn't completed a full season because he was suspended in Monza.

[Youichi]

Luca Badoer did 58 races and never scored a point. Not his fault though, he once retired due mechanical failure en route to 4th place. But in his Ferrari races he could have snatched his first point, really.

Then there's Nicola Larini, who did score points, but only after 69 stars.

Under current rules Badoer would have scored points in his 4th race, and 9 further times in his career, and Larini would have scored 9 times before his 2nd place in start 69.

Rookies 1990:
- David Brabham (Brabham)
- Gary Brabham (Life)
- Gianni Morbidelli (Scuderia Italia, Minardi)
- Claudio Langes (EuroBrun)
- Gregor Foitek (Brabham, Onyx), although he had DNQ in 1989 with EuroBrun and Rial

Rookies 1998:
- Esteban Tuero (Minardi)
- Toranosuke Takagi (Tyrrell)

Gregor Foitek (spit) had a 7th, and the rest only had 2 finishes between them, poor chaps.

Tuero was 8th in his 4th race, and Takagi had two 9th placed finishes.

[ryan86]

Interesting stats, thanks

1993 - 78.1%
1994 - 72.9%
1995 - 76.4%
1996 - 85.4%
1997 - 80.3%
1998 - 87.5%
1999 - 82.3%
2000 - 81.3%
2001 - 82.3%
2002 - 82.3% (last year of 6)
2003 - 81.25% (first year of 8)
2004 - 81.25%
2005 - 75%
2006 - 82.6%
2007 - 83.8% (McLaren counted as a Top 5 team)
2008 - 75%
2009 - 72.8%
2010 - 73.6%
2011 - 75.3%
2012 - 70%

[Myrvold]

1993 - 78.1%
1994 - 72.9%
1995 - 76.4%
1996 - 85.4%
1997 - 80.3%
1998 - 87.5%
1999 - 82.3%
2000 - 81.3%
2001 - 82.3%
2002 - 82.3% (last year of 6)
2003 - 81.25% (first year of 8)
2004 - 81.25%
2005 - 75%
2006 - 82.6%
2007 - 83.8% (McLaren counted as a Top 5 team)
2008 - 75%
2009 - 72.8%
2010 - 73.6%
2011 - 75.3%
2012 - 70%

As a backmarker-fan, do you bother to check on teams 7-11?

[PayasYouRace]

As a backmarker-fan, do you bother to check on teams 7-11?

Subtract from 100

[ryan86]

Year  6th  7th   8th  9th  10th  Others
1993  5.2  6.25  5.2  2.1  2.1  2.1
1994  4.15 6.25  7.3  4.15 3.1  2.1
1995  6.9  9.8   2	2.9  1	0
2010  9	7.9   5.8  3.7  0	0
2011  9	7.4   7.4  1.5  0	0
2012  8	10	7.5  5	0	0

Just done a few years Row 1993 and Column 6th means that the team that finished 6th in 1993 took 5.2% of available points scoring poisitions. Obviously over the past few years the new teams (Lotus/Virgin/HRT) have failed to score, but that's always been true of the team adrift at the back (Pacific/Forti/Lola/Coloni).

[Myrvold]

Year  6th  7th   8th  9th  10th  Others
1993  5.2  6.25  5.2  2.1  2.1  2.1
1994  4.15 6.25  7.3  4.15 3.1  2.1
1995  6.9  9.8   2	2.9  1	0
2010  9	7.9   5.8  3.7  0	0
2011  9	7.4   7.4  1.5  0	0
2012  8	10	7.5  5	0	0

Just done a few years Row 1993 and Column 6th means that the team that finished 6th in 1993 took 5.2% of available points scoring poisitions. Obviously over the past few years the new teams (Lotus/Virgin/HRT) have failed to score, but that's always been true of the team adrift at the back (Pacific/Forti/Lola/Coloni).

Thanks! Great work mr.!

[ryan86]

Year  6th  7th   8th  9th  10th  Others
1993  5.2  6.25  5.2  2.1  2.1  2.1
1994  4.15 6.25  7.3  4.15 3.1  2.1
1995  6.9  9.8   2	2.9  1	0
1996  5.2  4.15  3.1  1.05 0	0
1997  7.8  6.9   2.9  1	1	0
1998  5.2  3.1   3.1  1.05 0	0
1999  6.25 4.15  5.2  1	1	0 
2000  8.8  3.9   3.9  2	0	0
2001  6.9  3.9   3.9  2.9  1	0
2010  9	7.9   5.8  3.7  0	0
2011  9	7.4   7.4  1.5  0	0
2012  8	10	7.5  5	0	0

Added a few more years, though the gneral patterns appear to continue.

[alecc]

I'm curious how long we will wait to another group of rookies like in the late 00's where to F1 came Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg, Kubica, rookies with great performance from the go.

[Clatter]

I'm curious how long we will wait to another group of rookies like in the late 00's where to F1 came Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg, Kubica, rookies with great performance from the go.

With today's limited testing it has to be harder for someone to show that level of performance straight off.