26 replies to this topic

[rileyl]

http://motorsport.ne...rain,59944.html


I hope he would not be stripping out of McLaren, he is the soul of the team. I admire him a lot as TP and business man.........

McLaren on Friday played down reports Ron Dennis has been demoted by team co-owner Bahrain.

Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport had reported the McLaren ’supremo’ was stripped of his voting rights, and is now only a non-executive member of the board.

The report said McLaren shareholder Mumtalakat Holding, the Bahraini investment company, is angry because Dennis’ pet project, McLaren Automotive, is losing millions.

But a McLaren spokesperson on Friday told the BBC that Dennis’ change of role was decided by himself.

The spokesman did, however, admit that group chairman Dennis is now a non-executive board member.

Dennis is quoted as saying: "The difference in the job is I don’t have accountability for the actions of the management."

He denied rumours of significant disagreements with the Bahrainis and also shareholder Mansour Ojjeh, or that he had attempted to wrest back control of the F1 team from Martin Whitmarsh.

"There has absolutely been no suggestion of my role in the company changing beyond the change of roles that took place as per my contract in January," said Dennis.

Edited by rileyl, 26 April 2013 - 16:57.

[HaydenFan]

The problem is that they allowed themselves to take money from businessmen. And those businessmen want Ron as a CEO to make them money, and if he isn't like they claim, they have the ability to remove him, or more likely due to contracts, place him in a spot where he has little power within the company.

If true, it's jut business, and he might have had it coming. How many small sportscar companies have actually made money?

[Sakae]

Perhaps McLaren could move and compete in mid pack, if they cannot match top three on the budget.

Edited by Sakae, 26 April 2013 - 18:53.

[swerved]

Do we need another thread about this, when its being discussed here, http://forums.autosp...w...2862&st=360



and where its also said that Dennis still has the same voting rights ?.

[rileyl]

Do we need another thread about this, when its being discussed here, http://forums.autosp...w...2862&st=360



and where its also said that Dennis still has the same voting rights ?.

I think MW is the one who really need to step down!

[One]

Apple did the same, or similar.

What has happened to Apple is quite well known. How Apple get back to the current position is also very well known.

[pup]

McLaren on Friday played down reports Ron Dennis has been demoted by team co-owner Bahrain.

...

The report said McLaren shareholder Mumtalakat Holding, the Bahraini investment company, is angry because Dennis’ pet project, McLaren Automotive, is losing millions.

Love the spin. McLaren denied the rumors, they didn't play them down. And how is it Dennis' "pet project" when he only owns 18% of it? They play it like he begged mom and dad for money for a new bike. I'm pretty sure that Mumtalakat went into this with their eyes open.

[jj2728]

http://motorsport.ne...rain,59944.html
I hope he would not be stripping out of McLaren, he is the soul of the team.

Bruce McLaren is the soul of the team....

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Bruce McLaren is the soul of the team....

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

I think Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus/Enstone, Williams, Sauber, Force India and even perhaps Mercedes may have a 'soul'...at least more so than McLaren.

Great team with legendary pedigree. But with a 'soul'?

Not a chance.

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

[velgajski1]

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

I think Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus/Enstone, Williams, Sauber, Force India and even perhaps Mercedes may have a 'soul'...at least more so than McLaren.

Great team with legendary pedigree. But with a 'soul'?

Not a chance.

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

This has to be the most stupid post ever written on this forum

I think that McLaren letting their drivers race proved just the opposite from most of teams you mentioned - they allow their drivers to RACE.

Edited by velgajski1, 26 April 2013 - 21:52.

[mclarensmps]

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

I think Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus/Enstone, Williams, Sauber, Force India and even perhaps Mercedes may have a 'soul'...at least more so than McLaren.

Great team with legendary pedigree. But with a 'soul'?

Not a chance.

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

As far as opinions go, that's a pretty poor one. Ferrari and Red Bull: Team Orders city, with essentially unlimited budgets. Lotus: Marketing ploy, it's not Lotus, it's Renault. Williams and Sauber I give you, because they are independants. Mercedes have a rich history, and though it can be debatable, I can give you that too. But Force India? You're taking the piss.

[halifaxf1fan]

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

I think Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus/Enstone, Williams, Sauber, Force India and even perhaps Mercedes may have a 'soul'...at least more so than McLaren.

Great team with legendary pedigree. But with a 'soul'?

Not a chance.

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

True McLaren is a 'soulless' corporate entity, but one that can build very fast cars. However it has been Dennis's inept management of the team that has led to just a single wcc in more than 20 years.

They should have moved on him decades ago.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 27 April 2013 - 03:04.

[jj2728]

They don't have a 'soul'..

Without Bruce McLaren, there would be no McLaren. Get my point?

[V8 Fireworks]

What has happened to Apple is quite well known. How Apple get back to the current position is also very well known.

But the current McLaren road car range is not class leading -- or more importantly it's not interesting.

Did the McLaren F1 actually make money the way the Apple II or Macintosh computers did? Is such a high end hypercar really the form they should try to capture?

They need something so amazing that people rip off and throw away their Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche order forms, and wonder how they could ever have considered such a mistake. McLaren products NEED to be that good IMO. But it doesn't seem like they are ATM.

[Lemans]

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

I think Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus/Enstone, Williams, Sauber, Force India and even perhaps Mercedes may have a 'soul'...at least more so than McLaren.

Great team with legendary pedigree. But with a 'soul'?

Not a chance.

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

Totally ignorant post made by people who know very little about the team and who usually just regurgitate the garbage written by others who are also completely ignorant on the subject. Typical F1 forum stuff.

[CookinFlatSix]

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

....

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

I think you mean that their soul seems rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

Ferrari didnt win any for years yet it was their 'soul' the kept them around

Maybe soul is not the right word as its more complicated than just corporate image

[JaredS]

But the current McLaren road car range is not class leading -- or more importantly it's not interesting.

Did the McLaren F1 actually make money the way the Apple II or Macintosh computers did? Is such a high end hypercar really the form they should try to capture?

They need something so amazing that people rip off and throw away their Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche order forms, and wonder how they could ever have considered such a mistake. McLaren products NEED to be that good IMO. But it doesn't seem like they are ATM.

Actually the cars are most definitely class leading. The F1 is an icon. Uncompromising pure performance design. The mp4-12c has amazing performance for the price. Class leading. The problem with it is that it doesn't have soul like a Ferrari or Porsche or Lambo. However most of this "soul" nostalgia is simply a result of the long history of these marques. McLaren just doesn't have this history has a road car manufacturer.

[undersquare]

It'll be a real pity if Ron is ousted from Automotive and I think things will get worse rather than better if he is. He is a difficult character but he does have the vision and courage you need to launch a car brand, I doubt they'll be able to replace him.

The car just needed more flair in the design, I reckon, otherwise it was good enough to succeed.

[study]

I wonder how much pressure this puts on MW to perform and stop the racing team slide.

[kosmos]

True McLaren is a 'soulless' corporate entity, but one that can build very fast cars. However it has been Dennis's inept management of the team that has led to just a single wcc in more than 20 years.

They should have moved on him decades ago.

[Boing 2]

They don't have a 'soul'...

McLaren seem rather clinical and highly corporate and by-the-numbers.

I think Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus/Enstone, Williams, Sauber, Force India and even perhaps Mercedes may have a 'soul'...at least more so than McLaren.

Great team with legendary pedigree. But with a 'soul'?

Not a chance.

Which begs the question if a soul is really needed in F1 as long as you can win Grands Prix...

The whole "Ferrari is the only team with real soul" thing is utter nonsense, they have been one of the most cynical and soulless 'statistical accumulators' for years now, never caring for how they got the job done, just putting the numbers in the columns. Granted they have improved under Domenicali but I still feel more raw passion for racing in Williams or McLaren than I have at Ferrari for a long time.

Lotus and Mercedes are just badges.

[JaredS]

Depends on the car though. The McLaren F1 has more soul than any modern Ferrari (and by that I mean even those of the same era). I'd say only the F40 comes close. Yes it's done in a different way that a Ferrari or Porsche or Lambo. But it's a classic soulful car. Put it in a showroom full of Ferraris, Porsches and Lambos and everyone gravitates towards the F1. I've seen this first hand. It's not only beautiful, but a technical wonder and a fantastically difficult beast to tame. Nothing like the MP4-12C that is the everyday accessible supercar. The F1 is an uncompromising beast. 6 litre naturally aspirated V12 sitting behind, uncompromising centre driving position, and shorter more compact than a Porsche 911.

The McLaren P1 has the potential to replace it but only provided it's not an easy accessible everyday supercar. Part of the charm of the F1 is that it was a difficult car to drive. No driving aids or computer to do all the thinking for the driver. Hit the loud pedal too hard and it will potentially kill you. In the rain it was virtually undriveable due to huge power and torque, fat tyres, light weight and no driver aids which is an instant recipe for aquaplaning.

[SophieB]

My old boss at one of my first jobs was a genial, middle aged man from Northern Ireland who was exceptionally into cars. As a lot of our job involved us travelling around the UK making on-site visits, I used to receive his forthright thoughts and opinions on all the makes and models of cars we'd pass on the roads. Anyway, one day we were on the motorway and we were overtaken by a McLaren F1 and I think it was the happiest day of his whole life. He spoke of it for weeks. I always think of him to this day when the McLaren F1 is talked of.

Speaking more broadly, I will never get people who think Ron Dennis seems clinical, cold and unemotional. I think he seems the asbsolute reverse to a fault. When he was forced out of the F1 team, the sport lost one of its strongest, most complicated, pure racers. Ron recently said he wants his staff to bleed McLaren when cut, but I bet Ron himself takes it further and that the word 'McLaren' runs all through all his bones, like a message on a stick of Blackpool rock.

The sport is all the poorer for his absence.

[Arska]

Without Bruce McLaren, there would be no McLaren. Get my point?

Irrelevant for this discussion. Ron is the heart of McLaren these days. Martin hasn't been able to occupy that place. As a result McLaren has seemed to be a bit lost lately, and the trend seems down rather than up.

[Lemans]

The whole "Ferrari is the only team with real soul" thing is utter nonsense, they have been one of the most cynical and soulless 'statistical accumulators' for years now, never caring for how they got the job done, just putting the numbers in the columns. Granted they have improved under Domenicali but I still feel more raw passion for racing in Williams or McLaren than I have at Ferrari for a long time.

Lotus and Mercedes are just badges.

Exactly.
Let's not forget that they are under the FIAT umbrella. Doesn't get more corporate then that.

For christs' sake, they don't even allow their drivers to race. Oh, yeah! What passion!

[Lemans]

My old boss at one of my first jobs was a genial, middle aged man from Northern Ireland who was exceptionally into cars. As a lot of our job involved us travelling around the UK making on-site visits, I used to receive his forthright thoughts and opinions on all the makes and models of cars we'd pass on the roads. Anyway, one day we were on the motorway and we were overtaken by a McLaren F1 and I think it was the happiest day of his whole life. He spoke of it for weeks. I always think of him to this day when the McLaren F1 is talked of.

Speaking more broadly, I will never get people who think Ron Dennis seems clinical, cold and unemotional. I think he seems the asbsolute reverse to a fault. When he was forced out of the F1 team, the sport lost one of its strongest, most complicated, pure racers. Ron recently said he wants his staff to bleed McLaren when cut, but I bet Ron himself takes it further and that the word 'McLaren' runs all through all his bones, like a message on a stick of Blackpool rock.

The sport is all the poorer for his absence.

[pingu666]

the current car does lack abit of personality