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The first Australian Coopers


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#51 austmcreg

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:32

Dave Powell Jnr comes to grief in the Cooper Jap at Symmons Plains when Tapp spins in front of him.....
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This well known photo illustrates well how low this particular Cooper Mk V (the Hawkes / Jones / Patterson /Wylie / Walkem / Hartnett / Powell / Powell MkV/41/51) had sunk since its salad days - up until about 1965 this was a very well maintained, quite original car, but its last few years of racing saw it heavily modified (pannier tanks gone, front suspension 'modernised') and becoming very tired. Still, at the time it did not matter - there was nothing so useless as a 17-year old racing car...

From 1966 onward (including this photo) it was BSA 500 powered.
Rob Saward

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#52 austmcreg

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:53

This photo comes from the Graham Howard Archive. When I first saw it I thought it may have been Keith Martin, but not so. The first two Coopers in Australia, the Martin and Saywell cars, were the only ones with four louvres in the headrest fairing, this one with three louvres is later. After some discussion with Stephen and others we have worked out it is the ex Brabham Cooper Vincent, which was sold to Jack O'Dea in Victoria in early 1954. It seems to have been the only Australian Mk IV with a nose mounted fuel tank.

Taken at Templestowe hillclimb, it is likely the driver is O'Dea, but it does not look familiar - every other photo of him in the car shows him wearing heavy black-rimmed goggles. Does anyone have a confirmed photo of Jack O'Dea to compare?
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#53 DanTra2858

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 21:46

This photo comes from the Graham Howard Archive. When I first saw it I thought it may have been Keith Martin, but not so. The first two Coopers in Australia, the Martin and Saywell cars, were the only ones with four louvres in the headrest fairing, this one with three louvres is later. After some discussion with Stephen and others we have worked out it is the ex Brabham Cooper Vincent, which was sold to Jack O'Dea in Victoria in early 1954. It seems to have been the only Australian Mk IV with a nose mounted fuel tank.

Taken at Templestowe hillclimb, it is likely the driver is O'Dea, but it does not look familiar - every other photo of him in the car shows him wearing heavy black-rimmed goggles. Does anyone have a confirmed photo of Jack O'Dea to compare?
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Rob Saward


Not sure if it was Graham Howard or Terry McGrath who told me that Paul Roberts from Wollongong who drove a alloy body XK 120 was one of the first owners of a Cooper in NSW but for some reason unknown sold the car to Jack Brabham, could this be the same car.

#54 austmcreg

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:25

Not sure if it was Graham Howard or Terry McGrath who told me that Paul Roberts from Wollongong who drove a alloy body XK 120 was one of the first owners of a Cooper in NSW but for some reason unknown sold the car to Jack Brabham, could this be the same car.

Yes it is the same car, Daniel. The story, briefly, is that Roberts bought the car new from John Crouch with 1100 JAP, entered the car at Bathurst, had oil pump (from memory -it is mentioned in John Medley's Bathurst book) troubles and damaged the engine. Sent engine back to JAP in UK and ended up in dispute with them. Sold car less engine. Graham Howard told me somebody named Black (involved in speedway) was the buyer, who soon on-sold it to Jack Brabham who installed initially a hybrid BSA/JAP 500cc engine (does anybody know more about this?) and then a Vincent 998.

The details of the A.P. Roberts ownership, JAP dispute, the mysterious Mr Black and the Brabham BSA-based engine are all very hazy, and if anyone can shed light on any aspect of this here it will be very welcome. I have one recorded entry at Mt Druitt for Brabham in 'BSA Cooper', after which all entries for the car were Cooper Vincent or Cooper 1000 (even the odd erroneous 1100).

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 16 May 2013 - 03:57.


#55 johnny yuma

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:14

Doug Nye's book on Jack Brabham is worth a look,goes back through everything Jack did with his racecars from about 1948/49....he could make almost anything in his small workshop,and did.

#56 GMACKIE

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:16

I wonder if Ronnie Ward may have had something to do with that 'BSA' engine? Ron was a good mate of Jack's, and built all sorts of engines using Harley, Norton, BSA, etc bits.......on a 'mix-and-match basis.

#57 john medley

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:32

Perhaps that question should be put to Bill Shevill, who is a speedway/speedboat historian, raced a Ward twin, and incredibly back then had an even higher win ratio than Jack Brabham

#58 DanTra2858

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 23:57

Was the informas Mr Black a Speedway motor bike rider of some note, it rings bells in my head but that may be The Lord also calling, anything can happen at my age.

#59 tsrwright

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:37

I wonder if Ronnie Ward may have had something to do with that 'BSA' engine? Ron was a good mate of Jack's, and built all sorts of engines using Harley, Norton, BSA, etc bits.......on a 'mix-and-match basis.


I believe Ron died not long ago. Don Halliday took me to see him a year or so back - wonderful experience.

Can we change this thread title to the plural? And maybe move it to research?

David?

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#60 GMACKIE

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:18

Sad to hear about Ron Ward.

We used to live a few doors from the Brabhams, in Harrow Road, Sylvania. Our two boys, David and Tim went to Sylvania primary school, with David Brabham, and he spent a bit of time at our place.

Ron was often seen driving in the Sylvania/Blakehurst area in his green early Holden ute, which was about 3" off the road. One day, as he drove past our house, David [Brabham] exclaimed "There goes Uncle Ron".

#61 austmcreg

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:31

I wonder if Ronnie Ward may have had something to do with that 'BSA' engine? Ron was a good mate of Jack's, and built all sorts of engines using Harley, Norton, BSA, etc bits.......on a 'mix-and-match basis.

Thanks for the suggestion, Greg.

I took the opportunity today at the Remembering Graham Howard function to ask Don Halliday about this. He said he remembers the BSA-based engine that was used briefly in the Cooper, and that Ron Ward did indeed have involvement. Don believes Ron and Jack built the engine on the bottom end of an ex WD BSA M20 engine, with cylinder and head from a JAP engine. Don thinks it likely the JAP parts came from the 8/80 engine Jack had been using in his speedcar.

Don remembers that the BSA connecting rod broke (at Paramatta Park he thinks) and the engine was not pursued further, a Vincent twin being purchased and fitted soon after.

I asked Don if he had ever seen a photograph of the BSA-based engine; he said no, he had not.

Rob Saward

#62 tsrwright

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:27

Posted Image
This is the chassis plate that came with a pile of bits that Rob Kirkby bought in the UK decades ago. It ended up with Graham Howard in Australia. The plate is strange but appears to once have been attached to a chassis tube and later flattened out. The letter punching is badly done even by Cooper standards and doesn't have the letter style I associate with Coopers. The layout of the plate is different too. Did blank plates ever get fixed to Coopers so that this plate could have been removed from one and stamped?

Next is a copy of a copy of plate with the same number which I believe was sent to Graham from Finland where the car went as new and as far as I know still is.


Posted Image



So that was one Australian Cooper that was 'undiscovered'

PS Now managed to load a copy of the Finnish chassis plate.

Edited by tsrwright, 24 May 2013 - 16:00.


#63 austmcreg

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:10

Who, When, Where?
Another Cooper Mk IV from the Graham Howard Archive. A bit unusual, on what looks like a gravel hill climb. There was one such event at Cut Hill in NSW in November 1951, when FTD was John Crouch in his new Cooper Mk V, but I think this photo is later than that. There are a few possibilities (assuming it is NSW) but I would like to hear what others think.
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#64 The Chasm

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:10

Is this a Cooper - I am trying to date the photo ?.Posted Image

#65 David McKinney

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:42

Not a Cooper, but I don't know what it is

Perhaps if you can give a clue as to when and where someone else will be able to ID it

#66 austmcreg

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:19

Is this a Cooper - I am trying to date the photo ?.Posted Image

It would help if we could see the photo - all I get is a red cross.

Rob Saward

#67 The Chasm

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:13

It is from a bunch of personal photos of Australian motorsport and MG racing in the late 1940's and 1950's.

They are from the estate of Connie Karhula nee Jordan. Connie raced an MG TA at Strathpine and Leyburn.

She was an aircraft engineer and test pilot for Qantas. She was born in 1909, and died in 1977. She had no children.

#68 austmcreg

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:58

It is from a bunch of personal photos of Australian motorsport and MG racing in the late 1940's and 1950's.

They are from the estate of Connie Karhula nee Jordan. Connie raced an MG TA at Strathpine and Leyburn.

She was an aircraft engineer and test pilot for Qantas. She was born in 1909, and died in 1977. She had no children.


I am not sure if others can see the photo, but it does not load for me - are you able to repost it please?

Thanks

Rob Saward

#69 David McKinney

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:17

Looks like the Warburton

See http://www.500race.org/ under 'Marques'

#70 The Chasm

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 21:03

That photo of the Warburton looks interesting - certainly the air scoop looks right, but the bulge behind the drivers head is different. It looks like a handicap start or sprint - certainly an airfield venue, so could be Leyburn ?. Well spotted David.

If we could find the entry list of competitors at Leyburn for the support events at the AGP, perhaps the Warburton is listed ?.

But we must remember that Connie Jordan was a engineer/test pilot for Qantas, so she could have flown to almost any venue on the east coast "by chance" to follow her interest in motor racing - perhaps ?.

#71 The Chasm

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 21:08

I have just noticed the armband on the starter - could be "QMSC" - Queensland Motor Sporting Club - they ran the Leyburn event.

#72 David McKinney

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 21:39

Connie Jordan was a retirement in the F2 race at the AGP Leyburn meeting, but the AMS report doesn't name her car or give its number. The previous month's issue gives the starters (and handicaps) for the GP, but not for the supporting events

#73 cooper997

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:11

Who, When, Where?
Another Cooper Mk IV from the Graham Howard Archive. A bit unusual, on what looks like a gravel hill climb. There was one such event at Cut Hill in NSW in November 1951, when FTD was John Crouch in his new Cooper Mk V, but I think this photo is later than that. There are a few possibilities (assuming it is NSW) but I would like to hear what others think.
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Rob Saward


Despite having troubles to get this photo to load. I think it's a young (maybe) woman driver and then that makes Irish visitor, Fay Taylour a possible. But I don't know what her age would be. If it is, then that would make the event late 52.more than likely.

Don't know the venue, but the photo I have (said to be) Crouch at Cut Hill has no vegetation like this one.

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 24 May 2013 - 12:14.


#74 austmcreg

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:52

Despite having troubles to get this photo to load. I think it's a young (maybe) woman driver and then that makes Irish visitor, Fay Taylour a possible. But I don't know what her age would be. If it is, then that would make the event late 52.more than likely.

Don't know the venue, but the photo I have (said to be) Crouch at Cut Hill has no vegetation like this one.

Stephen

Stephen,
To my knowledge the only Cooper Fay Taylour drove in Australia was Crouch's Mk V at Mt Druitt (in late 1952 as you say), and this is definitely a Mk IV.
I agree it looks like a very young driver.
I think a possibility is NSW driver Ronnie Williams, who raced the ex John Nind MkIV in about 1957-58. The downside is that the cars in background look to be all quite a bit older than this.
Rob Saward

#75 tsrwright

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 16:34

Who, When, Where?
Another Cooper Mk IV from the Graham Howard Archive. A bit unusual, on what looks like a gravel hill climb. There was one such event at Cut Hill in NSW in November 1951, when FTD was John Crouch in his new Cooper Mk V, but I think this photo is later than that. There are a few possibilities (assuming it is NSW) but I would like to hear what others think.

Rob Saward


Grime did tell me but I can't find the notes and it's late.

My understanding is it's not and never has been a big-twin. That limits it very much to probably 10-32-49, Wylie>Ould>>Kidman>Swanton>Rainey>Webster>Melrose>Corbin>Biggar etc etc and it means it's Victoria
... but I haven't been tracking 500s carefully.

10-32-49 had a local body and that dummy grille and badge doesn't look chez Cooper to me.

#76 cooper997

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 23:19

Between the mystery GH #7 Cooper photo and a not necessarily correctly captioned photo on the Liebrand section of Brian Darby's site, is an also #7 Cooper leading 3 cars. They have to be the same combination in my dodgy eyes. The Liebrand photo shows the single exhaust making it a 500 and the cars in the background are telling me the photo is of 1953/54 vintage at the latest. I'd need to waste more time working out the exact meeting for that photo, to then work out who the #7 entry was.

Looking at both photos tells me that it's a factory bodied car. If it was anything to do with the Ken Wylie/Auld/Kidman, etc it would be one of the local body CRCD cars. This had a more pointed nose. That although I haven't done enough digging would have probably been from the workshop of Bob Baker.

As far as Ronnie Williams, what little I have was that he ran an 1100 in the 1957 period. If my suspicion is right, that Ronnie Williams, could be Ron Williams, Tenterfield Mini specialist.

Stephen


#77 275 GTB-4

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 00:13

Between the mystery GH #7 Cooper photo and a not necessarily correctly captioned photo on the Liebrand section of Brian Darby's site, is an also #7 Cooper leading 3 cars. They have to be the same combination in my dodgy eyes. The Liebrand photo shows the single exhaust making it a 500 and the cars in the background are telling me the photo is of 1953/54 vintage at the latest. I'd need to waste more time working out the exact meeting for that photo, to then work out who the #7 entry was.

Looking at both photos tells me that it's a factory bodied car. If it was anything to do with the Ken Wylie/Auld/Kidman, etc it would be one of the local body CRCD cars. This had a more pointed nose. That although I haven't done enough digging would have probably been from the workshop of Bob Baker.

As far as Ronnie Williams, what little I have was that he ran an 1100 in the 1957 period. If my suspicion is right, that Ronnie Williams, could be Ron Williams, Tenterfield Mini specialist.

Stephen


Stephen, please don't consider it wasting time, even in jest......you, and others posting here is very much appreciated by a bunch of others :up:

#78 cooper997

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:06

Stephen, please don't consider it wasting time, even in jest......you, and others posting here is very much appreciated by a bunch of others :up:


Thanks Mick. It was partly in jest. But sometimes...

Stephen

#79 tsrwright

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:07

[quote name='cooper997' date='May 25 2013, 09:19' post='.... The Liebrand photo shows the single exhaust making it a 500 and the cars in the background are telling me the photo is of 1953/54 vintage at the latest. I'd ..

Stephen

[/quote]

Carefull, a lot of twins had the rear exhaust exiting via the rear aperture usually when the rear cylinder had the exhaust at the back. Exhaust at the front usually had exhausts exiting parallel at the front and you could see both.




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#80 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 14:22

Originally posted by The Chasm
I have just noticed the armband on the starter - could be "QMSC" - Queensland Motor Sporting Club - they ran the Leyburn event.


I just twigged to the fact that you're talking here about the photo on the site linked by David McKinney...

Yes, that might well be Leyburn. Obviously not 1949, however.

The QMSC ran a lot of different events, including Lowood and Strathpine. This is not Strathpine but could be Lowood, but I don't think it is.

I'll stick by my earlier guess at the other pic, however, this is most likely at Whites Hill. Another possibility would be Ferny Hills (somewhere out that way) or maybe even a very early climb on the Gold Coast. It does look like the photo I've seen of the Regal sitting at rest at Whites Hill.

#81 The Chasm

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 23:20

Hi Ray,
Why could it not be Leyburn 1949 ?. Were there handicap starts on the programme ?. I thought that Leyburn was only used once.

I will start a new thread soon on Connie Jordan and ladies in racing.

Tony

#82 BMH Comic

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:14

Just trying to tidy the history of The Riemann Trophy which was won by Doug Green in 1958 and 1959 driving a Cooper V.

Was this Cooper a Mark V?? Or was someone trying to say it was a Vee?? Where is it now??

https://skydrive.liv.....5693F667E!464

Here is the path to image of the Trophy,every time i try and post to this site with embededed image I get this note?? "Sorry, dynamic pages in the [IMG] tags are not allowed" Can anyone exp[lain why??



#83 tsrwright

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:18

Posted Image


There you go.

Open the photo original where you have it on line

Right click and select "Copy Image Location" .

Paste into your TNF message.

Delete all characters after '.jpg'

Put in front.

Put at the end. Note the slash.

Post and ... bingo.

See latest discussion under Mt Druitt.

Edited by tsrwright, 26 May 2013 - 02:26.


#84 cooper997

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:52

Hi Ray,
Why could it not be Leyburn 1949 ?. Were there handicap starts on the programme ?. I thought that Leyburn was only used once.

I will start a new thread soon on Connie Jordan and ladies in racing.

Tony


Tony, I don't have a definitive list of Leyburn dates, but what I currently do have listed runs over 1949 to late 1954. The old Airfield didn't have much vegetation. It still doesn't, see 275 GTB's photos on the Leyburn thread. The event 4 AGP was a mass start with handicaps applied. Plus event 6 was a seperate Handicap race.

Be good to get this Warburton information over to the thread linked below. That way it will leave this one for Coopers and kick start some discussion on the thread where the Warburton information belongs.
http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=200

Stephen

#85 BMH Comic

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:55

Here is what the trophy looks like, a rather ornate affair and about 18" High.

Posted Image


Thanks for the lead on the Doug Green Cooper info and the tip on how too with skydrive photo embeding!!

Edited by BMH Comic, 26 May 2013 - 03:43.


#86 austmcreg

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:31

Just trying to tidy the history of The Riemann Trophy which was won by Doug Green in 1958 and 1959 driving a Cooper V.

Was this Cooper a Mark V?? Or was someone trying to say it was a Vee?? Where is it now??

The Doug Green Cooper was Mk V/L/5/51, arrived in Australia in late 1951, first raced John Crouch in January 1952. Then Alan Stephenson and Lyn Archer in Tasmania and then to Doug Green in WA, followed by Jack Ayres in WA, Jack Rowe in WA, unknown WA owner, then Hilton McGee in WA and now with Penrite Oil (Dymond family) in Victoria.

There has been discussion and photos of this car in the 'motorcycle engined cars in Australia' thread. I would really like to find out exactly when it arrived in WA (1955 or 1956?) and who the unknown owner c1964-67 in WA was (he fitted dual Triumph twin engines).

Rob Saward



#87 austmcreg

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:39

Grime did tell me but I can't find the notes and it's late.

My understanding is it's not and never has been a big-twin. That limits it very much to probably 10-32-49, Wylie>Ould>>Kidman>Swanton>Rainey>Webster>Melrose>Corbin>Biggar etc etc and it means it's Victoria
... but I haven't been tracking 500s carefully.

10-32-49 had a local body and that dummy grille and badge doesn't look chez Cooper to me.

Terry, the Wylie/Old (spelling of name not clear - Old / Ould/ Auld all in the frame)/Kidman/Swanton et al car is quite distinguishable by its unique front bodywork (without a grille) which had a longer nose than a standard Cooper body, and almost certainly not this car.

I reckon there is a good chance it is either Williams or one of the other owners of the ex John Nind car 10/48/50.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 26 May 2013 - 07:43.


#88 BMH Comic

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:38

The Doug Green Cooper was Mk V/L/5/51, arrived in Australia in late 1951, first raced John Crouch in January 1952. Then Alan Stephenson and Lyn Archer in Tasmania and then to Doug Green in WA, followed by Jack Ayres in WA, Jack Rowe in WA, unknown WA owner, then Hilton McGee in WA and now with Penrite Oil (Dymond family) in Victoria.

There has been discussion and photos of this car in the 'motorcycle engined cars in Australia' thread. I would really like to find out exactly when it arrived in WA (1955 or 1956?) and who the unknown owner c1964-67 in WA was (he fitted dual Triumph twin engines).

Rob Saward


Talk about ask an expert!!

I take it that the obvious dumb question of where are the log books has been asked??

This reinforces in my mind just how important the digitising and archiving our motor sport records are, Will get onto it soon. Currently looking at what the National library can do.

Interesting that you can upload and tag an image on face book in about 20 seconds and its live and cached instantly and we cannot do it on a forum such as F1, still buggarising around with HTML codes and restrictions that even the educators are walking away from. Its 20 year old technology when its all said and done. 1993 Tech, it’s like driving an early model Falcon in the 21st century

Just begs to be done.


#89 Repco22

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:55

The Doug Green Cooper was Mk V/L/5/51, arrived in Australia in late 1951, first raced John Crouch in January 1952. Then Alan Stephenson and Lyn Archer in Tasmania and then to Doug Green in WA, followed by Jack Ayres in WA, Jack Rowe in WA, unknown WA owner, then Hilton McGee in WA and now with Penrite Oil (Dymond family) in Victoria.

There has been discussion and photos of this car in the 'motorcycle engined cars in Australia' thread. I would really like to find out exactly when it arrived in WA (1955 or 1956?) and who the unknown owner c1964-67 in WA was (he fitted dual Triumph twin engines).

Rob Saward

Rob, Jack Rowe was the owner in the mid-sixties period mentioned. He also fitted twin Triumphs to a Cooper. I don't recall it and he did own more than one Cooper but I think he is your man.

#90 cooper997

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:07

The topic of Jack Auld came up with a relative Wednesday night. Jack and my late uncle, John Dalton (because of his MG related, Safety Fast Engineering business) had dealings over the years. Specific for this post we are now talking 1974/75. I believe Jack was living in The Dandenongs at the time, where over many years (although at several properties) John originally ran his business.

The conversation with Barry (John's brother) was specific to the spelling of Jack's name. Barry recalled how Jack stated that he could write up an invoice with his name spelt 'Auld' on it and still receive a cheque written out to 'Jack Old'. I quizzed Barry about how old Jack Auld would have been in that 1974/75 period. He said "Older than Pop, who was born in 1914." Meaning my grandfather. So that makes Jack probably a decade older than Peter Manton at least.

Yes there is multiple 'J Old' or 'Jack Old' appearances in early AMS and Australian Mototr Racing annuals, but it is wrong.

There is further confusion because there was also John Ould, who was a Melbourne car dealer. Bib Stillwell purchased his Armadale (Melbourne) BMW Dealership. Beginning the rebirth of what is now The Stillwell Group.

Jack became a committee member of the Victorian Sporting Car Club, prior to the building of the Templestowe Hillclimb in 1951. There's an AMS with the connection to him (even though it is spelt Old) and Monaro Motors. Same deal applies to the Cooper-Matchless writeup in AMR #2, the facing page has a full page advert for Monaro Motors Nuffield dealer.

Stephen

#91 austmcreg

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:02

The topic of Jack Auld came up with a relative Wednesday night. Jack and my late uncle, John Dalton (because of his MG related, Safety Fast Engineering business) had dealings over the years. Specific for this post we are now talking 1974/75. I believe Jack was living in The Dandenongs at the time, where over many years (although at several properties) John originally ran his business.

The conversation with Barry (John's brother) was specific to the spelling of Jack's name. Barry recalled how Jack stated that he could write up an invoice with his name spelt 'Auld' on it and still receive a cheque written out to 'Jack Old'. I quizzed Barry about how old Jack Auld would have been in that 1974/75 period. He said "Older than Pop, who was born in 1914." Meaning my grandfather. So that makes Jack probably a decade older than Peter Manton at least.

Yes there is multiple 'J Old' or 'Jack Old' appearances in early AMS and Australian Mototr Racing annuals, but it is wrong.

There is further confusion because there was also John Ould, who was a Melbourne car dealer. Bib Stillwell purchased his Armadale (Melbourne) BMW Dealership. Beginning the rebirth of what is now The Stillwell Group.

Jack became a committee member of the Victorian Sporting Car Club, prior to the building of the Templestowe Hillclimb in 1951. There's an AMS with the connection to him (even though it is spelt Old) and Monaro Motors. Same deal applies to the Cooper-Matchless writeup in AMR #2, the facing page has a full page advert for Monaro Motors Nuffield dealer.

Stephen

Stephen,
Thanks for that - I am convinced. That clears up something that has been causing confusion for many historians over many years, not least John Blanden and his contributors.

I will change the name to Auld in all my stuff.

Related to this, now that I am spending a fair bit of time re-reading old AMS, is just how often they did make mistakes in the spelling of names. Some of these were acknowledged and corrected in subsequent issues, but most went un-corrected. Jack Old (now we know - should be Auld) must have appeared at least 8-10 times during the 1950s, and every time, they go it wrong!

Rob Saward

#92 ken devine

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 23:24

From Terry Walkers race results it shows Doug Green first racing the Cooper MKV in Sept.1956.Jack Rowe did fit twin engines to this
car there is a photo taken of it by Gordon Graham on the site. It is said the unknown owner is said to have fitted a Ford 105e motor to it. Has anybody contacted Hilton Mc Gee about it ?

#93 Gordon Graham

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:13

From Terry Walkers race results it shows Doug Green first racing the Cooper MKV in Sept.1956.Jack Rowe did fit twin engines to this
car there is a photo taken of it by Gordon Graham on the site. It is said the unknown owner is said to have fitted a Ford 105e motor to it. Has anybody contacted Hilton Mc Gee about it ?

So has it now been confirmed that it was Jack Rowe who did the twin Triumph conversion? There was some uncertainty about who did it when I originally posted that shot. One thing I do remember (odd the things that stick in the mind!) is hearing Hilton McGee phone in to the Don Hall speed Shop Show on radio in around 1970, saying he'd acquired the Cooper and asking to be contacted by anyone who had any missing parts from it.

#94 Repco22

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:44

So has it now been confirmed that it was Jack Rowe who did the twin Triumph conversion? There was some uncertainty about who did it when I originally posted that shot. One thing I do remember (odd the things that stick in the mind!) is hearing Hilton McGee phone in to the Don Hall speed Shop Show on radio in around 1970, saying he'd acquired the Cooper and asking to be contacted by anyone who had any missing parts from it.

Hi Gordon. I just spoke to Jack Rowe and he confirmed that he briefly tried twin Triumphs in the ex Green/Ayres Cooper before one blew up. He sold the car to Hilton McGee who rebuilt and fitted the original 1100 JAP motor. Jack has no knowledge of a Ford motor being fitted by anyone. He later bought the Howard Davies Cooper MkV which he eventually sold to Don Hall and which Don sold to someone in the east.

#95 275 GTB-4

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:28

Talk about ask an expert!!

I take it that the obvious dumb question of where are the log books has been asked??

This reinforces in my mind just how important the digitising and archiving our motor sport records are, Will get onto it soon. Currently looking at what the National library can do.

Interesting that you can upload and tag an image on face book in about 20 seconds and its live and cached instantly and we cannot do it on a forum such as F1, still buggarising around with HTML codes and restrictions that even the educators are walking away from. Its 20 year old technology when its all said and done. 1993 Tech, it’s like driving an early model Falcon in the 21st century

Just begs to be done.


To quote the Talking Heads...Stop Making Sense! :)

#96 cooper997

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:26

Hi Gordon. I just spoke to Jack Rowe and he confirmed that he briefly tried twin Triumphs in the ex Green/Ayres Cooper before one blew up. He sold the car to Hilton McGee who rebuilt and fitted the original 1100 JAP motor. Jack has no knowledge of a Ford motor being fitted by anyone. He later bought the Howard Davies Cooper MkV which he eventually sold to Don Hall and which Don sold to someone in the east.


Rod, brilliant information from the source. Is Jack Rowe and John Rowe, current Lukey T45 owner related? Same question can be asked on whether Howard Davies and John Davies with the T45 at Phillip Island this year, are related also.

Stephen

#97 Repco22

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 13:51

Rod, brilliant information from the source. Is Jack Rowe and John Rowe, current Lukey T45 owner related? Same question can be asked on whether Howard Davies and John Davies with the T45 at Phillip Island this year, are related also.

Stephen

Glad to help Stephen. Re Rowes and Davies I would confidently say 'no' to both questions.

#98 BMH Comic

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:05

To quote the Talking Heads...Stop Making Sense! :)


Sorry,

Will wind my neck back in now!!!!

Decided it was easier to build a standalone Motor Sport archive to stop this wastage of information being generated and then lost unless one of you good gentleman publish it and then it gets pigeon holed!! Im sure you would all contribute.
The world is rapidly moving towards digitized archives uploaded to the cloud, websites and forums are old hat these days, time to move on, I can see one day you all will have a APP on your phone and fly information to one another across the cloud and its preserved for the next (my) generation, video, audio, live streaming, POD casts and even WOD casts. Look forward to reading about your work on an ebook.

Edited by BMH Comic, 27 May 2013 - 16:07.


#99 cooper997

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:26

Glad to help Stephen. Re Rowes and Davies I would confidently say 'no' to both questions.


Thanks for that Rod. It was worth asking.

If any of the West Australians, Ken, Rod, Etc have any period snippets of air cooled Cooper information, no matter how trivial it might seem, then here's the place to share it. Also if you have access to 'The Visor' with Cooper snippets.

Stephen

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#100 275 GTB-4

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:21

Sorry,

Will wind my neck back in now!!!!

Decided it was easier to build a standalone Motor Sport archive to stop this wastage of information being generated and then lost unless one of you good gentleman publish it and then it gets pigeon holed!! Im sure you would all contribute.
The world is rapidly moving towards digitized archives uploaded to the cloud, websites and forums are old hat these days, time to move on, I can see one day you all will have a APP on your phone and fly information to one another across the cloud and its preserved for the next (my) generation, video, audio, live streaming, POD casts and even WOD casts. Look forward to reading about your work on an ebook.


I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to computers....I think they have not delivered their full potential or promise, thanks in large part to the likes of Bill Gates and his band of marketeers. Yes...Madam...you need to change your operating system religiously! etc etc

Governments and Businesses have largely just come along for the ride as well....

Cloud computing? Vapour ware!! :rotfl: :wave: