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The first Australian Coopers


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#101 austmcreg

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:53

Hi Gordon. I just spoke to Jack Rowe and he confirmed that he briefly tried twin Triumphs in the ex Green/Ayres Cooper before one blew up. He sold the car to Hilton McGee who rebuilt and fitted the original 1100 JAP motor. Jack has no knowledge of a Ford motor being fitted by anyone. He later bought the Howard Davies Cooper MkV which he eventually sold to Don Hall and which Don sold to someone in the east.

Thankyou both Rod and Ken for new information on this. I might be wrong, but my understanding is that when Hilton McGee had the car it was fitted with a JAP single. My recollection from the WA results on Terry's site is that the Cooper was raced with a 500cc engine at least sometimes during Jack Rowe's ownership, but I will go back and check that. I also understand that when John Dymond bought the car, he had to find an 1100 JAP, and eventually did so with an engine that was a spare with the ex John Crouch Cooper Mk IV that was with George Best in WA for many years.

I also have September 1956 as Doug Green's first appearance, but I suspect there may have been something earlier. The last record I have for the car in Tasmania is March 1955, so we have a period of 18 months to account for.

Any contact details for Hilton McGee and Jack Rowe would be appreciated.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 28 May 2013 - 13:08.


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#102 ken devine

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:56

I thought when Hilton McGee restored the car it was fitted with the 1100 JAP engine, it was displayed at the 1979 AGP at Wanneroo
and ran in a historic race at Wanneroo about the same year, i do have a photo of it racing there but i am having problems with imageshack posting photos on TNF. I dont know much about the George Best car it returned to racing in Historics around 1983 at York
in the hands of Ian Boughton, i also have an excellent photo with George Best driving it at Goomalling in 1952.

#103 cooper997

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:08

Like a lot of racing cars over the years, budgets and newer machinery meant ownerships changed quite regularly. Particularly as the 1950's often wealthy amateurs progressed their profiles and businesses. So without exception, it didn't take long before the early Coopers were finding a new home. If I'm on the right track, of Keith Martin's original early batch of Coopers, Ken Wylie's was probably the first to see a new owner with Jack Auld taking it over around April 51. I actually get the impression with the various cars Ken built or was involved with, that he probably got more enjoyment in the engineering/building side of them. Rather than the actual racing of each car. Not that it stopped him racing plenty in the early 50's. But it didn't take long before each was on the market.

Anyway, what follows is an advert from the pages of 6/51 AMS. That unless I've got myself off the beaten track must be the John Snow Cooper. I can't see it in the 7/51 AMS so Mischa Ravdell must have quickly snapped it up and brought it to Melbourne. Then promptly put his HRG monoposto on the market in the 7/51 issue.

"For Sale – John Crouch Motors ad (text only) - Cooper-Vincent – latest 1000cc chassis with special long distance and nose tanks giving racing range of 150 miles altogether; fitted with latest Black Lightning motor, at present on 9 to 1 only; capable of approximately 120mph in present trim with complete reliability and considerably more with permissible higher compression ratio. This car now holds outright hill climb records at Newcastle and Hawkesbury. We have been commissioned to sell it as its owner can no longer race, and shall be glad to submit offers at over £1400 for his consideration. Full details given to genuinely interested buyers.”

Now although not stated in the advert, Crouch was the driver who set the records at Newcastle and Hawkesbury in it. There's also a possiblity he ran the car at the April 1951 Mt Druitt. But the corresponding AMS that may report that event, isn't in my collection. At the very least he was an entrant with it.

After Ravdell, the car went into the ever expanding racing car collection of Lex Davison. Where a bloke, who knew a bit about Vincent-HRD motorcycle engines and was a 500cc Car Club committee member, Phil Irving tinkered away with it. Turning it into the supercharged Cooper-Irving that Lex had much success with between retirements.

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 29 May 2013 - 07:28.


#104 tsrwright

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:24

Not entirely off topic, Bruce Walton is not well. Another big stroke some weeks ago now has him in hospital with one side paralysed, can't eat, but can talk; first words to Camille after coming round were "Bugger, Bugger"

Get well cards will cheer him up via 27 North Merton Street, N Caufield 3161.

#105 tsrwright

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:31

After Ravdell, the car went into the ever expanding racing car collection of Lex Davison. Where a bloke, who knew a bit about Vincent-HRD motorcycle engines and was a 500cc Car Club committee member, Phil Irving tinkered away with it. Turning it into the supercharged Cooper-Irving that Lex had much success with between retirements.

Stephen


Yes, Lex had that car, 10-41-50, but it is not what is called the Cooper-Irving. That was a second car , Mk5-45-51, which used the engine from the first car.

#106 The Chasm

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:20

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#107 cooper997

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:31

(Above) Multiple Australian Hillclimb Champion, Bruce Walton was a guest at Rob Roy's 75th Anniversary event last November. Seen here being interviewed by Don Kinsey. Photo - S Dalton.

Thanks Tony for adding the photo.

#108 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:14

. . . Now although not stated in the advert, Crouch was the driver who set the records at Newcastle and Hawkesbury in it. There's also a possiblity he ran the car at the April 1951 Mt Druitt. But the corresponding AMS that may report that event, isn't in my collection. At the very least he was an entrant with it.

Stephen


There is no mention of Crouch in the AMS report of the April 22 1951 meeting at Mt Druitt.

The Cooper Crouch used to set FTD at Newcastle on April 28 1951 is advertised for sale in AMS 5/51.

Cooper Vincent 998 cc, FTD and record at Newcastle hill climb; specially fitted to the order of John Snow with the latest Vincent Black Lightning engine to come to Australia. The car has special long distance fuel tanks to give it a range of 150 miles; the engine was modified by well-known Vincent exponent Tony McAlpine and is in first class condition, having been run only three times. A new clutch was recently fitted; for reasons beyond his control, the owner has reluctantly given up mtor racing, and has instructed us to sell this car for the bare cost to him of the engine and chassis. Full details to genuinely interested buyers.

#109 cooper997

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:02

Thanks for digging that information out Milan. Does 'Spotlight' hint to any clue please?

Obviously had to keep the AMS typist busy by rewriting the advert for the June issue.

Stephen

#110 austmcreg

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:30

Now although not stated in the advert, Crouch was the driver who set the records at Newcastle and Hawkesbury in it. There's also a possiblity he ran the car at the April 1951 Mt Druitt. But the corresponding AMS that may report that event, isn't in my collection. At the very least he was an entrant with it.
Stephen

Yes, The Snow-owned Cooper Vincent was taken over on 10/4/51 by John Crouch for the purpose of selling it on the owner's behalf. It was entered at VSCC Mt Druitt meeting but was a DNA.

If anyone is interested, an original race program for that meeting, with the Cooper Vincent entry, is currently for sale on ebay, from the collection of the late Barry Lake, a major contributor to TNF in the past.

The details of Crouch's usage of the car before it was sold are contained in a a typed set of notes which Crouch prepared at the time, along with other similar notes for his own two Coopers, Mk IV (sister car to the Snow Cooper Vincent, having arrived on the same ship) and the later Mk V JAP 1100. I and several others on here have a copy of these notes, which go into detail on test sessions and tuning done at the time. Because they are a copy of a copy, they may not scan too well, and realistically there is far too much to post on here, but when I get time next weekend I will re-type some parts relevant to this car. For those not aware, the Cooper Vincent exists in superb John Snow/John Crouch form owned by Garry Simkin.

Rob Saward

#111 BMH Comic

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 13:25

I thought when Hilton McGee restored the car it was fitted with the 1100 JAP engine, it was displayed at the 1979 AGP at Wanneroo
and ran in a historic race at Wanneroo about the same year, i do have a photo of it racing there but i am having problems with imageshack posting photos on TNF. I dont know much about the George Best car it returned to racing in Historics around 1983 at York
in the hands of Ian Boughton, i also have an excellent photo with George Best driving it at Goomalling in 1952.

Is this the Cooper at York?

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#112 ken devine

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:01

Yes that would have been the George Best car Tom, around 1984. If Image Shack would work for me i would post the Goomalling one.

#113 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 00:43

Ken, what's wrong with your attempts to use Imageshack?

It seems to be working fine for everyone else...

#114 Dick Willis

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:01

Yes that would have been the George Best car Tom, around 1984. If Image Shack would work for me i would post the Goomalling one.


The car in the pic is a Mark V, the George Best car was a MkIV which was sold to Ian Boughton in 1983, I had it for about a decade from 1986 after falling in love with it when I saw it at Mallala just after Ian had acquired it.

#115 BMH Comic

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:19

Ken, what's wrong with your attempts to use Imageshack?

It seems to be working fine for everyone else...

It must be a west of the border thing, I have abandoned mine too, sky is working for me and flicker has only just expanded its volume

#116 BMH Comic

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:22

The car in the pic is a Mark V, the George Best car was a MkIV which was sold to Ian Boughton in 1983, I had it for about a decade from 1986 after falling in love with it when I saw it at Mallala just after Ian had acquired it.

Any idea what this one is then Uncle Dick? Will rush down to my shed and sill see if I have that Cooper brake pedal!

#117 Dick Willis

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:36

Thomas, I would assume it is the ex Crouch car that was in WA for some time with Doug Green etc and now with Dymonds in Victoria. When are you going to order your copy of Optimism ?

#118 john medley

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:48

Hard sell, RGW? Tch Tch

#119 ken devine

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:18

Ian Broughton did run the ex George Best car at York in the early 80s. I am not sure if that is Hilton McGee in the Ex Doug Green car
or not , Hilton McGee painted the car Green.
Ray when i last tried to post photos with image shack i would upload the photo then press the copy button but instead of going back to the Forum to paste it all i was doing was copying to Image Shack, I am trying to post the photo of this Cooper but now i am having
a problem reducing it on My usual Abobe photoshop because it is a very large file.

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#120 austmcreg

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:49

The first Cooper racing car to arrive in Australia was the JAP 8/80 engined car used as a demonstrator by Cooper agent Keith Martin, which arrived in Australia by ship 4 days or so before its first race appearance (with Arthur Wylie driving) at Fisherman’s Bend on 29 January 1950. The chassis number of this car seems to be unknown.

I have been re-reading some old Loose Fillings magazines, and what should I find - Graham Howard, in Loose Fillings #16, says that the Martin Cooper was 10/42/50! I have been through Graham's folder of notes on this car and the other Mk IVs and could not find anything mentioning a chassis number.

This number is a bit surprising for a car which would have left the Cooper works in England in November 1949 at the latest, unless Cooper started using 1950 numbers in September in the same way that JAP and most of the motorcycle makers did (the next year models were launched at the annual Olympia show in September).

Chassis 42 was much higher than I was expecting, given that the other car to arrive at that time was 10/26/49.

Can anyone advise where this number may have come from?

Rob Saward

#121 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 13:36

Originally posted by ken devine
Ray when i last tried to post photos with image shack i would upload the photo then press the copy button but instead of going back to the Forum to paste it all i was doing was copying to Image Shack, I am trying to post the photo of this Cooper but now i am having
a problem reducing it on My usual Abobe photoshop because it is a very large file.


I don't understand what you are saying here, Ken...

If you have an account with Imageshack you go to 'My Images' and you click on the blue icon to the top right of the photo (if you hover over it you get 'share' come up as I recall), then you left click on the link for forums, right click on 'copy' - which you must do before the link loses its highlighting. If this happens (the blue disappears) you simply do it again, the second time it doesn't disappear.

As for Photoshop to reduce images, I can reduce four or five images before Photoshop can open using Irfanview. It is so simple and quick you really should download it. And load it up accepting every option, that way every photo automatically opens in Irfanview and is ready to be altered if so desired. The size of an image, in my experience, doesn't materially alter how long it takes.

#122 Dick Willis

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 20:51

No mystery about that number, 10/42/50 is the number of the ex George Best car I owned for a while, see post no 114. Sorry about the dead end Rob but the Martin car's number is still a mystery.

#123 BMH Comic

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:02

............ When are you going to order your copy of Optimism ?


There I was swimming along and I noticed your hook in the water and I thought the bait smelled a bit fishy so I left it alone!!!!

What is the RRP $ for Optimism?

Might just be an on seller and advertise it in The Visor

Is there a margin to be had in Optimism?


#124 Dick Willis

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:31

Thomas, will send you a PM.

#125 BMH Comic

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 04:19

Thomas, will send you a PM.

And here is my not very public message!!!


OPTIMISM
Posted Image
PGW by bmhcomic, on Flickr1NOW AVAILABLE.

OPTIMISM, my book on Australian Specials is now available, featuring 100 cars from the Golden Age of Australian Motor Racing. In a handy A5 size most cars are pictured in colour, it makes a handy reference book as well as an introduction to the earlier categories for those who are not fully familiar with the cars from the Golden Age.Why OPTIMISM, because most of the builders believed they could build a better or more affordable car than those available from the legendary racing car factories, some succeeded, many didn’t but nevertheless each car has a fascinating story behind it, many previously untold.

Available direct from the author for just $25 or $30 posted, order your copy by emailing willisrg@smartchat.net.au or send a cheque to PO Box 280, Coffs Harbour, 2450. Direct bank transfer also available, email me for details and include your postal address.

Limited edition ; only 200 copies printed.

Dick Willis. Ph. 0427 400158.

NB, First edition sold out in 14 days, second edition now available.

No Need to be shy!

TAB Western Regional Sales office (not associated with WA Inc.)

RGW Publicshing!!



#126 The Chasm

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:07

Worth every penny and more - great job Mr Willis !.

I hope one day you might consider an Optimism 2 - to cover the Australian built Sports and Racing Cars of the 70's & 80's ?.

Cheers & Happy Reading

#127 austmcreg

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:38

No mystery about that number, 10/42/50 is the number of the ex George Best car I owned for a while, see post no 114. Sorry about the dead end Rob but the Martin car's number is still a mystery.

Thanks Dick, yes I would have known that if I had gone back to my records. Shows that I have not committed all the numbers to memory yet, but I can generally recall all the ex Tasmania cars without resorting to looking them up!

I knew it did not seem correct, which is why I questioned it. The big mystery to me is how GH would have got that so wrong!

Rob Saward

#128 The Chasm

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:11

While looking for other information, I found a photo of a Cooper "racing" at White's Hill - driver "Ray Lewis".

Courier-Mail - Page 2 - 22nd May 1954.

Which Cooper is this ?.

#129 Dick Willis

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 21:04

Probably the car that is now the Cooper Minx

#130 austmcreg

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:29

Probably the car that is now the Cooper Minx

Yes, Mk IV sold new by Crouch to Les Taylor with 1100 JAP, then to LPS and raced at various times over a few years by all their partners Lewis, Pitt and Swinburne (mosty with a Manx Norton 500 engine), then to Jim McGuire who fitted the Hillman Minx engine. Still exists in that form.

Rob Saward

#131 cooper997

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:55

Issue 44 of Loose Fillings is available.

You can visit here:-

http://www.hsrca.com/

And collect it as a PDF. Back issues too.

Very nice tributes to Graham Howard from John Medley and Terry Wright in this issue. Plus, Terry gets technical and Rob Saward has been moonlighting, with part 1 of his feature on Tasmanian air-cooled Coopers.

Well done to all concerned.

Stephen

#132 ken devine

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:27

I have just been given a photo of a Blue Cooper MKV with a 500cc engine owned by Ian Broughton after the George Best car, it was i beleive raced at York but i dont recall it. At the 1983 meeting there were 3 rear engined Coopers entered they were Jim Runciman,
Hilton McGee and Ian Broughton. I don't know what car the Runciman car was Don Hall doesn't think it was the one he restored.

#133 austmcreg

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:12

Yes it is the same car, Daniel. The story, briefly, is that Roberts bought the car new from John Crouch with 1100 JAP, entered the car at Bathurst, had oil pump (from memory -it is mentioned in John Medley's Bathurst book) troubles and damaged the engine. Sent engine back to JAP in UK and ended up in dispute with them. Sold car less engine. Graham Howard told me somebody named Black (involved in speedway) was the buyer, who soon on-sold it to Jack Brabham who installed initially a hybrid BSA/JAP 500cc engine (does anybody know more about this?) and then a Vincent 998.

The details of the A.P. Roberts ownership, JAP dispute, the mysterious Mr Black and the Brabham BSA-based engine are all very hazy, and if anyone can shed light on any aspect of this here it will be very welcome. I have one recorded entry at Mt Druitt for Brabham in 'BSA Cooper', after which all entries for the car were Cooper Vincent or Cooper 1000 (even the odd erroneous 1100).

Rob Saward

Stephen (Cooper997) has reminded me that there is a piece by Brabham (at least through his ghost writer, who I assume was Dev Dvorestsky) in his 1961 Jack Brabham's Motor Racing Book, which briefly mentions the BSA/JAP engine but very interestingly quotes JB as saying he changed the capacity of his Vincent engine first to 1050cc (by boring) and then to 1100cc (with stroking). Now this was commonplace later on the 1955 or so Vincent engines with which Phil Irving was involved (Davison and others) but we are talking about late 1952 and early 1953 here. JB's entry at Parramatta Park 15/11/52 is for 1040cc, which I had not previously taken much notice of, and there is another I cannot track at moment for 1100c. These now take on new significance, and probably should not be dismissed as typos. If one takes the entry capacities literally, it would seem the JB may have had two Vincent engines, one of standard 998cc and the other of increased capacity. There is more to discover here - if anyone has any other clues I would be pleased to hear of them.

The other avenue of study at the moment is A.P.Roberts, the original owner of JB's Cooper Mk IV. It seems as though he was more commonly called Paul than Allan (one l or two?). We know that he came from the Wollongong district, and after his Cooper escapade had an early XK120 which he raced. There must be an interesting story to him - quite young if the picture I have seen of him with the Cooper at Bathurst 1951 is any guide; clearly there was money available. Can anyone point me in the direction of his family background, town of origin etc? What happened to him after his racing days? The XK120 is currently up for auction in the UK (after being sold to Uk from the Dawson-Damer auction some years ago).

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 04 August 2013 - 12:15.


#134 cooper997

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:18

I don't wish to take this Cooper thread too far off course, but sometimes other cars driven by drivers can help fill in the odd bit of history.

The XK120 is on the speedmasters website. I only found it yesterday because my curiosity was raised when flicking through the July issue of Octane (latest to arrive surface mail to OZ) and found an advert for an early alloy XK120 with Australian competition history. Turns out it was the Roberts car. But not a lot of history is divulged.

Today, a quick google comes up with a bit more information on the car here at http://www.xkdata.co...ail/?car=660017

I have Roberts XK listed at Bathurst in April 19 (Easter Monday) 1954, from an AMS report comment. However I don't have the car programme for that Bathurst. But Mr Medley's fine effort has it as car #100 on p147. Jumping 5 years forward I have a listing of Roberts running at the Bathurst Light Car Club-run NSWHCC rd2 Bathurst Hillclimb on July 26, 1959. So he must have hung onto the XK at lot longer than the Cooper. The xkdata website shows a period competition photo of it carrying #110.

Unfortunately, the driver profile published in the October 1, 1951 Bathurst programme doesn't give much away on Allan Roberts (as he is listed in it). So hopefully a few others with knowledge of him will soon add a bit more to help build up more of a picture on a man, who although it was shortlived, played a part in early Australian Cooper history. That also in a small part helped Jack Brabham towards his success. There's also those amongst the TNF community that have an ability to find long lost snippets on DoB, etc.

The Jaguar connection also makes me wonder whether Les Hughes may have done something on Allan Paul Roberts in his Australian Jaguar magazine.

Stephen

#135 austmcreg

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:30

I have just been given a photo of a Blue Cooper MKV with a 500cc engine owned by Ian Broughton after the George Best car, it was i beleive raced at York but i dont recall it. At the 1983 meeting there were 3 rear engined Coopers entered they were Jim Runciman,
Hilton McGee and Ian Broughton. I don't know what car the Runciman car was Don Hall doesn't think it was the one he restored.

Jim Runciman had 10/28/49 (the ex Harry Atherton Mk IV brought into Australia in 1958) at that time. Now with Brian Sawley in Adelaide.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 08 August 2013 - 10:57.


#136 austmcreg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:16

Who, When, Where?
Another Cooper Mk IV from the Graham Howard Archive. A bit unusual, on what looks like a gravel hill climb. There was one such event at Cut Hill in NSW in November 1951, when FTD was John Crouch in his new Cooper Mk V, but I think this photo is later than that. There are a few possibilities (assuming it is NSW) but I would like to hear what others think.
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Rob Saward

I am now confident this is Ash Marshall in 10/48/50, the ex John Nind car with 1100 JAP. Marshall had used #7 on his earlier self-built 500 and with the ARDC seeming to allow drivers to keep the same number for Mt Druitt meetings, Marshall kept #7. Then the next owner of this car, Gordon Greig (from Newcastle) also used #7. Marshall owned the car only for about 6 months in mid 1953 (my first and last sightings are 3/53 and 8/53 but there may be others). There have been comments on how young the driver looks - Ash Marshall was 23 at the time he ran this car.

I would like to know what colour it was - could be metallic silver? When he first bought the Cooper it was still in Nind's white, as per this photo from the Graham Howard Collection. It was a very little - used car, having not been run many times by Nind.

However I still dont have any clues on the venue - date presumably around mid 1953.

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Rob Saward

#137 cooper997

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:25

There's a photo of Marshall in the Denis Gregory Gnoo Blas book. Although captioned as Alan Marshall. The sepia photo still indicates the car to be white at this April 6, 1953 Easter meeting.

The car is described as newly acquired by Gordon Greig in the October 25, 1953 Mt Druitt meeting AMS report.

Stephen

#138 terry mcgrath

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:12

I could ask what denis gregory gnoo blass book! I would love more details
But interesting the connections Gordon grieg later owned and raced an XK120 and ash marshall owned the D type
terry

There's a photo of Marshall in the Denis Gregory Gnoo Blas book. Although captioned as Alan Marshall. The sepia photo still indicates the car to be white at this April 6, 1953 Easter meeting.

The car is described as newly acquired by Gordon Greig in the October 25, 1953 Mt Druitt meeting AMS report.

Stephen



#139 austmcreg

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:16

I could ask what denis gregory gnoo blass book! I would love more details
But interesting the connections Gordon grieg later owned and raced an XK120 and ash marshall owned the D type
terry

I will email you the contact details Terry - I just looked it up myself!

Rob Saward

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#140 austmcreg

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:26

I note that in several of their advertisements for the ex Brabham MkIV, both Jack O'Dea and Owen Bailey referred to the fact it was one of the later Mk IVs. O'Dea said it had two-leading shoe brakes and dual master cylinder brake system, and Bailey went as far as to call it a Mk IVb! That is a designation I have not seen before; I feel it was likely his own rather than anything from Cooper. It would be interesting to know when these changes were introduced,. Presumably the other 'late' cars in Australia, Jones and Taylor, also had these features. What about the Nind car?

Rob Saward

#141 cooper997

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:36

Denis' 186 page book 'Chequered Times - a history of Gnoo Blas' was published by the Orange council late last year.

Assuming copies are still available $29.95 plus $7 post in Australia (overseas, no doubt extra) will have one heading your way.
Email is museum@orange.nsw.gov.au

Stephen

#142 ken devine

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 23:49

Terry i recall giving you a copy of that XK120 shot at Orange in 1953, It's race number was 39. If you dont have it let me know and i will
send it. I would like a copy of that Gnooblah book also.

#143 DanTra2858

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:35

.

The other avenue of study at the moment is A.P.Roberts, the original owner of JB's Cooper Mk IV. It seems as though he was more commonly called Paul than Allan (one l or two?). We know that he came from the Wollongong district, and after his Cooper escapade had an early XK120 which he raced. There must be an interesting story to him - quite young if the picture I have seen of him with the Cooper at Bathurst 1951 is any guide; clearly there was money available. Can anyone point me in the direction of his family background, town of origin etc? What happened to him after his racing days? The XK120 is currently up for auction in the UK (after being sold to Uk from the Dawson-Damer auction some years ago).

Rob Saward


Paul Roberts was one of the original members that started Wollongong Sporting Car Club, I knew him from 1959/60 onwards.

Paul lived at lower Keira Street, Wollongong and run his business behind his house "Paul Roberts Mufflers".

I believe that by the end of 1961 Paul ended his racing days in the XK120, but had started building a space frame sports car to run Jaguar equipment, this car was never finished by Paul, the last I heard it ended up in WA.

I hope this helps, for more information on his XK120 please contact Terry McGrath.


#144 Lola5000

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:41

I note that in several of their advertisements for the ex Brabham MkIV, both Jack O'Dea and Owen Bailey referred to the fact it was one of the later Mk IVs. O'Dea said it had two-leading shoe brakes and dual master cylinder brake system, and Bailey went as far as to call it a Mk IVb! That is a designation I have not seen before; I feel it was likely his own rather than anything from Cooper. It would be interesting to know when these changes were introduced,. Presumably the other 'late' cars in Australia, Jones and Taylor, also had these features. What about the Nind car?

Rob Saward

My post to you has gone,anyway PM sent.
Ask Owen about the time they tow started the Cooper-Vincent.

#145 tsrwright

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 23:05

I note that in several of their advertisements for the ex Brabham MkIV, both Jack O'Dea and Owen Bailey referred to the fact it was one of the later Mk IVs. O'Dea said it had two-leading shoe brakes and dual master cylinder brake system, and Bailey went as far as to call it a Mk IVb! That is a designation I have not seen before; I feel it was likely his own rather than anything from Cooper. It would be interesting to know when these changes were introduced,. Presumably the other 'late' cars in Australia, Jones and Taylor, also had these features. What about the Nind car?

Rob Saward

 

The Autocar, 12.1.51, announcing the new Mk5, said the Cooper now had twin leading shoes brakes with Elektron (magnesium alloy) backplates but doubtless earlier cars had these too. It is not clear if dual master cylinders were new then too.



#146 tsrwright

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:23

I should have said the Mk5 was reported as having tls on back as well as front. The fronts were tls well before that but currently without references to hand I can't be sure.

 

T



#147 Peter Morley

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 13:13

And here is my not very public message!!!


OPTIMISM


OPTIMISM, my book on Australian Specials is now available, featuring 100 cars from the Golden Age of Australian Motor Racing. In a handy A5 size most cars are pictured in colour, it makes a handy reference book as well as an introduction to the earlier categories for those who are not fully familiar with the cars from the Golden Age.Why OPTIMISM, because most of the builders believed they could build a better or more affordable car than those available from the legendary racing car factories, some succeeded, many didn’t but nevertheless each car has a fascinating story behind it, many previously untold.

Available direct from the author for just $25 or $30 posted, order your copy by emailing willisrg@smartchat.net.au or send a cheque to PO Box 280, Coffs Harbour, 2450. Direct bank transfer also available, email me for details and include your postal address.

Limited edition ; only 200 copies printed.

Dick Willis. Ph. 0427 400158.

NB, First edition sold out in 14 days, second edition now available.

No Need to be shy!

TAB Western Regional Sales office (not associated with WA Inc.)

RGW Publicshing!!

 

I just received my copy of Dick's book and it is thoroughly recommended - I will be reading every page unlike many other books.



#148 cooper997

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:59

It may well be that if I had John Medley's John Snow book at hand I might answer this myself. I may also be barking up the wrong tree. But anyway here's the reason for bringing the following up.

 

In the 1951 chapter of the Australian Grand Prix book, there's M Nathan listed as an entrant with a Cooper. But also listed as a DNS for this 5/3/51 Narrogin, Western Australia event.

 

Just having a ferret through the January 1951 AMS today and I find a couple of references to "M Nathan" - the inverted commas being how AMS referred to them each time mentioned.This instantly made me think it must be a pseudonym.

17/12/50 VSCCA Mt Druitt report – “M Nathan” – “the other Cooper, powered by Vincent Black Lightning engine was some three seconds slower on its official flying lap.” 

Digest – WASCC AGP handicaps listing - “M Nathan” (NSW) Cooper 1100 5.30.

 

So from those clues mentioned I thought John Snow. Given he was the original owner of the Cooper-Vincent that went to John Crouch Motors to be then sold to Victorian, Mischa Ravdell. Can anyone help confirm or correct please?

 

Stephen



#149 David McKinney

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:52

I'd seen reference to "M Nathan" being John Snow before I ever saw John Medley's book. I must have got that from AMS

#150 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 14:05

I've also seen reference to it by John Medley...

 

It was some time ago, presumably the Grand Prix book or the Bathurst book.