116 replies to this topic

[redreni]

I agree... Harsh on Perez and mind blowing with Gutierrez, that fight with Maldonado, Sutil and DiResta was the best of the season so far.

Vergne and Hulkenberg pushed each other off the track and nothing was seen by the stewards, Sutil touched Maldonado before the Venezuelan tried to enter the pits for a new wing (extremely optimistic manoeuvre by him), and also the drs of Grosjean was active when Perez attacked him... and no car was ahead of him.

 

If you think it's harsh on Perez it might help if you explained why. Grosjean got the DRS from Kimi who was right in front of him - look at the video and try it with your eyes open this time!

 

Regarding JEV and Hulk, just because a car leaves the circuit does not mean it was forced off or that it should be deemed to have gained an advantage. Nobody was penalised simply for going off, there was lots of corner-cutting especially at Radillon, and Webber ran off the track at the exit of Pouhon every single lap as far as I could see, but I don't hear you complaining about that. Gutierrez was penalised for blatantly driving off the circuit to make a pass - that's a different thing. It's regarded as gaining an advantage while the other examples of off-track driving are (rightly or wrongly) regarded as mistakes with no advantage gained.

 

Not sure what point you're trying to make regarding Sutil but if you're agreeing with Maldonado's assessment, that Sutil should have given Maldonado more room, I don't know how much room you want him to leave on the inside? A car's width is normally considered adequate. The collision occurred because Maldonado didn't turn in - it was a left-hand bend and Maldonado was going straight on. Maybe he was trying to pit in which case he's lucky he's not banned for Monza, or maybe he was just trying to take a very wide line in so he could straighten the a car early for the apex, in which case he is guilty of a major misjudgement of the situation..

[NexCL]

Agree with the penalty, you're not allowed to crowd a car beyond track limits and I think Perez broke that rule. Not surprised Grosjean went off no one else was using those kerbs so I can't see much grip being there.

Perez needs to learn from his driving instead of saying it's not my fault over the radio, credit to Grosjean he does seem to have learned from his mistakes. It would be good to see Perez do the same.

 

Oh boo hoo, how dare a driver slightly squeeze another while trying to maintain an overtaking move. It used to be called racing but now the moment it happens the traffic police jump on them and issue an infringement notice. This is what F1 has become. All the tracks have been dumbed down to the point where they resemble car parks more than race tracks. All the curbs have been flattened so to not disturb the drivers as they run over them, and cut the track, ever exit has had the gravel removed and replaced with tarmac to ensure the drivers are not troubled if they make a mistake and run wide, with zero consequences for a mistake. They no longer race in the rain because its dangerous and difficult to see, an apparently new phenomena. Wheel to wheel racing has basically been prohibited and there are penalties issues the moment someone is slightly inconvenienced while racing another car, or slightly touches them. Its a joke. Once my fav driver retires I will be done with the sport because its been sanitised to the point where its almost pointless. And they haven't even closed the cockpits yet.

 

This is what happens you install such a stupid bureaucracy it just takes over. The stewards are given this job and of course they will do their best to be relevant and express their power and strangle the sport to the point where it can no longer breathe from the rampant bureaucracy, and it will only get worse.

Edited by NexCL, 26 August 2013 - 13:12.

[stillOrange]

And what you wrote has nothing to do with the topic of the post you quoted.

There is a rule about leaving a car's width when making an overtake. Perez broke the rule and was punished.

Squeezing someone out of the track was never ever called "racing".

[NexCL]

And what you wrote has nothing to do with the topic of the post you quoted.

There is a rule about leaving a car's width when making an overtake. Perez broke the rule and was punished.

Squeezing someone out of the track was never ever called "racing".

 

He didn't squeeze him off the track, he had plenty of room. Overtaking moves are meant to be tight and close. Part of racing.

[redreni]

He didn't squeeze him off the track, he had plenty of room. Overtaking moves are meant to be tight and close. Part of racing.

 

Kerbs aren't considered part of the track. You can of course put two wheels off the track and onto a kerb without breaking any rules, but the line at the entry to Les Combes is to brake on the tarmac and not to go on the kerb, so obviously if you don't leave a car's width that's not "plenty of room" since you're forcing the other car onto the kerb, where he doesn't want to go, and the kerb isn't part of the track. If it went track>white line>grass and Grosjean hadbeen forcd to put two wheels on the grass and crashed out of the race we wouldn't be arguing about this; people seem to think for some reason that it's okay to force somebody off the track if there's a painted kerb there, which is odd. If it had been raining, again Grosjean would have crashed since there would have been absolutely no grip on the kerb, would we be arguing then?

 

In one way I can see why it's viewed as picky since there's nothing wrong with squeezing a rival offline so he has to brake on the dirty part of the track as long as you allow him to stay on the track, but the stewards have drawn a line and said it's not okay when you force him beyond the edge of the track. I can't see why that's anything other than good for racing?

[coppilcus]

If you think it's harsh on Perez it might help if you explained why. Grosjean got the DRS from Kimi who was right in front of him - look at the video and try it with your eyes open this time!

Regarding JEV and Hulk, just because a car leaves the circuit does not mean it was forced off or that it should be deemed to have gained an advantage. Nobody was penalised simply for going off, there was lots of corner-cutting especially at Radillon, and Webber ran off the track at the exit of Pouhon every single lap as far as I could see, but I don't hear you complaining about that. Gutierrez was penalised for blatantly driving off the circuit to make a pass - that's a different thing. It's regarded as gaining an advantage while the other examples of off-track driving are (rightly or wrongly) regarded as mistakes with no advantage gained.

Not sure what point you're trying to make regarding Sutil but if you're agreeing with Maldonado's assessment, that Sutil should have given Maldonado more room, I don't know how much room you want him to leave on the inside? A car's width is normally considered adequate. The collision occurred because Maldonado didn't turn in - it was a left-hand bend and Maldonado was going straight on. Maybe he was trying to pit in which case he's lucky he's not banned for Monza, or maybe he was just trying to take a very wide line in so he could straighten the a car early for the apex, in which case he is guilty of a major misjudgement of the situation..

Nore Hulkenberg or Vergne leaved a car width between them, that's forcing another driver of the track since they were wheel to wheel through the right and left handers... But the stewards saw it as a racing incident. Gutierrez got off track because went wheel to wheel with Maldonado at the chicane... Again, inertia plays a huge part on those manoeuvres and cannot turn the car at acute angles instantly, the apex of the corner was the same for both drivers but longer distance for Gutierrez to travel and doing so on a dirty off temperature and green surface, I don't see what advantage he gain with that, he didn't cut a chicane or a speed trap.

I'm not defending Maldonado and said that his decision of pit at that time was extremely optimistic and naive, put the one that enters straight at the chicane is Sutil and that's why he step the front wing of Maldonado, nothing to see here by the stewards either...

Edited by coppilcus, 26 August 2013 - 13:52.

[DutchQuicksilver]

The incident was clearly Maldonado's fault. Look at the video, Maldonado clipped Sutil and then slid into Di Resta. He should have waited for Sutil, Di Resta and Gutierrez to pass him, if he was going for the pits anyway.

 

[SpartanChas]

Was Esteban penalized for overtaking Sutil? Iirc Sutil got him back about 10 seconds after. If he had stayed ahead he could've been told to give the position back straight away, but what was he meant to do?

[Jon83]

Was Esteban penalized for overtaking Sutil? Iirc Sutil got him back about 10 seconds after. If he had stayed ahead he could've been told to give the position back straight away, but what was he meant to do?

 

I thought the penalty was for passing Maldonado whilst off the track? The move obviously wasn't completed at that point.

 

He was very aggresive in defending against Sutil into La Source and then down towards Eau Rouge but pretty sure he wasn't penalised.

[coppilcus]

The incident was clearly Maldonado's fault. Look at the video, Maldonado clipped Sutil and then slid into Di Resta. He should have waited for Sutil, Di Resta and Gutierrez to pass him, if he was going for the pits anyway.
 
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WSdfSrMy8J8

Racing incident with Sutil, Maldonado was entitled to take that corner also and Sutil kept the racing line as if no one else was there... The contact with DiResta it's another story indeed.

[Paul084]

This is what happens you install such a stupid bureaucracy it just takes over. The stewards are given this job and of course they will do their best to be relevant and express their power and strangle the sport to the point where it can no longer breathe from the rampant bureaucracy, and it will only get worse.

 

Well that's an unfortunate consequence of some drivers seeming as if they are unable to learn from their mistakes and race fairly, thus the only way the stewards can try and get them to learn is through penalties.

[BenettonB192]

Anyone know what the rules for pit exit were this weekend? I remember i saw Massa driving over the white line after i think his first pit stop and was surprised to see no penalty. I thought maybe the rule doesn't apply there because the first corner is so tight but other drivers didn't cross the line so i'm not sure whether the stewards were sleeping for a moment or not.

Edited by BenettonB192, 26 August 2013 - 16:52.

[redreni]

Anyone know what the rules for pit exit were this weekend? I remember i saw Massa driving over the white line after i think his first pit stop and was surprised to see no penalty. I thought maybe the rule doesn't apply there because the first corner is so tight but other drivers didn't cross the line so i'm not sure whether the stewards were sleeping for a moment or not.

I saw that live and thought "penalty" but I haven‘t seen a replay. It looked marginal. If Charlie doesn‘t spot it and it isn‘t referred to the stewards, there won‘t be a decision, will there? A lot of drivers go close to the line there because the quickest legal line there is to go as close as possible to the white line without crossing it. You‘d therefore expect there to be an FIA spotter there looking for that very thing, but obviously not.

As for the rules I think the prohibition on crossing the white line at pit exit is in the sporting regs, so I don‘t think the rule can vary from race to race.

Edited by redreni, 26 August 2013 - 18:25.

[Fastcake]

The incident was clearly Maldonado's fault. Look at the video, Maldonado clipped Sutil and then slid into Di Resta. He should have waited for Sutil, Di Resta and Gutierrez to pass him, if he was going for the pits anyway.

 

 

I wasn't too sure about this penalty yesterday, but after reviewing that video yes I am in complete agreement in penalising Maldonado. While he perhaps could of got away with the slight contact with Sutil - although I do agree that he should of remained stationary - after that contact he appeared to accelerate and turn straight into di Resta. I presume he was attempting to pit to fix his nose, but in doing so displayed a lack of attention to the other cars around him.

[Lights]

Couldn't find a better thread for this incident, and just wanted to say how stupid it was from Maldonado to not defend the inside line into the chicane when he knew he was going to pit that lap.

[SpeedFanatic]

Couldn't find a better thread for this incident, and just wanted to say how stupid it was from Maldonado to not defend the inside line into the chicane when he knew he was going to pit that lap.

He didn't know. He had no pit radio.

[Buttoneer]

The purpose of the thread is to discuss inconsistent stewarding.  This will necessitate mentioning incidents but they are not the focus of the discussion, merely examples, so please start new threads if one does not already exist for the more substantive discussion about the events themselves.