5 replies to this topic

[Fudce]

Today, Caterham released Giedo Van Der Garde with a loose wheel. He asked the pits what to do, and they told him to bring it back to the pits. The wheel came off and he made it back to the pits with three wheels. Caterham were fined €10,000 for an unsafe release.

In China, Red Bull released Mark Webber with a loose wheel. Again, he was told to bring it back to the pits. Again the wheel came off. Red Bull was fined €5,000.


Jumping back to 2009, Hungary. Renault released Fernando Alonso with a loose wheel. He was told to bring it back carefully. After the race, the team was handed a one race ban, which was reduced to a €50,000 fine on appeal.



So apparantly preventing drivers from driving a car with a known problem that could cause serious injury or worse is only 10% as important this year? And what's with the double-fine for Caterham when compared to Red Bull's seemingly identical infringement just two races ago?

We need consistency, and some clarification. Drivers should be forced to immediately park a car with a loose wheel as soon as it becomes apparant.

[midgrid]

Renault's penalty in 2009 was a knee-jerk reaction to Massa's injury in qualifying, and Henry Surtees's fatal accident (caused by a detached wheel striking his head) the previous week, although I do agree that the penalties/procedure should be more consistent.

[redreni]

Renault's penalty in 2009 was a knee-jerk reaction to Massa's injury in qualifying, and Henry Surtees's fatal accident (caused by a detached wheel striking his head) the previous week, although I do agree that the penalties/procedure should be more consistent.

I have to agree it was obviously knee-jerk in 2009 since the approach taken by the stewards then has not been maintained. Arguably it should have been.

It's not so much the unsafe release that should attract the severest sanctions, in my view, it's continuing to drive the car when the driver or team is aware that the wheel's not bolted on. No team intentionally releases the car with the wheel not attached, but it will always happen as long as we allow competitive pitstops. Unless we want a British GT-type system where there's a minimum pitstop time written into the regulations to make sure everything is done safely rather than quickly, this won't change. But the expectation, at least since 2009, is that if your wheel's not on you stop. Hence no penalty for Button/McLaren in Silverstone 2011 - it was an unsafe release, but they mitigated the danger by pulling up immediately next to an access point so the car could be quickly and safely removed, and crucially, because Button stopped immediately, the wheel did not come off the car and start bouncing around the circuit and its environs creating a hazard to life and limb, like Van der Garde's did.

If you release your car with a wheel not bolted on and then try to get back around, and the wheel comes off the car, in my view the penalty should be consistent and predictable and it should be a 1-race ban for the whole team (both cars). Wheels bouncing across the track is not a joke. Motor racing is dangerous and unpredictable, and it won't be possible to stop wheels coming off in accidents, but wheels coming off because the nut wasn't fastened in the pitstop is totally avoidable. We don't want a marshall or driver or spectator getting seriously injured or worse due to an avoidable cause such as this.

Edited by redreni, 12 May 2013 - 18:49.

[alfa1]

We need consistency, and some clarification. Drivers should be forced to immediately park a car with a loose wheel as soon as it becomes apparant.

And they should also be forced to park a car that only has three wheels.

Driving slowly slowly slowly around a circuit is not only dangerous, but pointlessly dangerous since most of the time they get back to the pits the car is parked because of damage anyway.

[garoidb]

Today, Caterham released Giedo Van Der Garde with a loose wheel. He asked the pits what to do, and they told him to bring it back to the pits. The wheel came off and he made it back to the pits with three wheels. Caterham were fined €10,000 for an unsafe release.

In China, Red Bull released Mark Webber with a loose wheel. Again, he was told to bring it back to the pits. Again the wheel came off. Red Bull was fined €5,000.

Perhaps the fact that they had so recently punished a team for this, thereby making the seriousness of the situation and the expected course of action fairly clear, meant they felt the punishment should be more severe.

I would agree with those who say that a three-wheeled car, or one with a loose untethered wheel, should be parked on safety grounds.

[ZZei]

I have to agree it was obviously knee-jerk in 2009 since the approach taken by the stewards then has not been maintained. Arguably it should have been.

It's not so much the unsafe release that should attract the severest sanctions, in my view, it's continuing to drive the car when the driver or team is aware that the wheel's not bolted on. No team intentionally releases the car with the wheel not attached, but it will always happen as long as we allow competitive pitstops. Unless we want a British GT-type system where there's a minimum pitstop time written into the regulations to make sure everything is done safely rather than quickly, this won't change. But the expectation, at least since 2009, is that if your wheel's not on you stop. Hence no penalty for Button/McLaren in Silverstone 2011 - it was an unsafe release, but they mitigated the danger by pulling up immediately next to an access point so the car could be quickly and safely removed, and crucially, because Button stopped immediately, the wheel did not come off the car and start bouncing around the circuit and its environs creating a hazard to life and limb, like Van der Garde's did.

If you release your car with a wheel not bolted on and then try to get back around, and the wheel comes off the car, in my view the penalty should be consistent and predictable and it should be a 1-race ban for the whole team (both cars). Wheels bouncing across the track is not a joke. Motor racing is dangerous and unpredictable, and it won't be possible to stop wheels coming off in accidents, but wheels coming off because the nut wasn't fastened in the pitstop is totally avoidable. We don't want a marshall or driver or spectator getting seriously injured or worse due to an avoidable cause such as this.

Avoidable,yes. Worth 1 second longer pitstop for the team? Teams seem to think no. Quite the opposite. The mechanics are under an enormous pressure to make a 2.5 second pitstop, so its no wonder these "loose wheel-incidents" are not so rare anymore. Thats not going to change, unless we take back refuelling so people could have something else to complain about for a change.